Has anyone experimented with taking an mp3 file and using Audacity,
converting to midi, which can then be edited in LMMS.

On 17-07-2021 17:28, TheSidhe wrote:
> Has anyone experimented with taking an mp3 file and using Audacity,
> converting to midi, which can then be edited in LMMS.
>
>
No, MIDI is not audio.

https://rolandcorp.com.au/blog/difference-between-midi-and-audio

On 19/07/2021 02:38, dillinger wrote:
> On 17-07-2021 17:28, TheSidhe wrote:
>> Has anyone experimented with taking an mp3 file and using Audacity,
>> converting to midi, which can then be edited in LMMS.
>>
>>
> No, MIDI is not audio.
>
> https://rolandcorp.com.au/blog/difference-between-midi-and-audio

Agree, but it can be done, apparently:
https://www.minitool.com/video-converter/mp3-to-midi.html. Generation
rather than conversion, I guess. If the results are anything like a
couple of online tools I tried it's hardly worth the effort although
something very simple might work as a starter to be tidied up with a
MIDI editor.

--
Regards,

Stephen

On 7/22/21 7:55 AM, Stephen wrote:
> On 19/07/2021 02:38, dillinger wrote:
>> On 17-07-2021 17:28, TheSidhe wrote:
>>> Has anyone experimented with taking an mp3 file and using Audacity,
>>> converting to midi, which can then be edited in LMMS.
>>>
>>>
>> No, MIDI is not audio.
>>
>> https://rolandcorp.com.au/blog/difference-between-midi-and-audio
>
> Agree, but it can be done, apparently:
> https://www.minitool.com/video-converter/mp3-to-midi.html. Generation
> rather than conversion, I guess. If the results are anything like a
> couple of online tools I tried it's hardly worth the effort although
> something very simple might work as a starter to be tidied up with a
> MIDI editor.
>
Using Audacity I have been able to convert an mp3 file to a .sds file
but I don't understand what the next step is. LMMS does not recognize
the .sds file.

On 7/22/21 2:19 PM, TheSidhe wrote:
> On 7/22/21 7:55 AM, Stephen wrote:
>> On 19/07/2021 02:38, dillinger wrote:
>>> On 17-07-2021 17:28, TheSidhe wrote:
>>>> Has anyone experimented with taking an mp3 file and using Audacity,
>>>> converting to midi, which can then be edited in LMMS.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> No, MIDI is not audio.
>>>
>>> https://rolandcorp.com.au/blog/difference-between-midi-and-audio
>>
>> Agree, but it can be done, apparently:
>> https://www.minitool.com/video-converter/mp3-to-midi.html. Generation
>> rather than conversion, I guess. If the results are anything like a
>> couple of online tools I tried it's hardly worth the effort although
>> something very simple might work as a starter to be tidied up with a
>> MIDI editor.
>>
> Using Audacity I have been able to convert an mp3 file to a .sds file
> but I don't understand what the next step is. LMMS does not recognize
> the .sds file.
>
Wow, what's in a name, let's call everything MIDI.

Seriously now, .sds is sample dump standard, which can be imported into
your sampler. The sampler can then be controlled by MIDI (LMMS).
LMMS may have a built-in software sampler, if not you've got to get one.

On 7/22/21 1:46 PM, dillinger wrote:
> On 7/22/21 2:19 PM, TheSidhe wrote:
>> On 7/22/21 7:55 AM, Stephen wrote:
>>> On 19/07/2021 02:38, dillinger wrote:
>>>> On 17-07-2021 17:28, TheSidhe wrote:
>>>>> Has anyone experimented with taking an mp3 file and using
>>>>> Audacity, converting to midi, which can then be edited in LMMS.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> No, MIDI is not audio.
>>>>
>>>> https://rolandcorp.com.au/blog/difference-between-midi-and-audio
>>>
>>> Agree, but it can be done, apparently:
>>> https://www.minitool.com/video-converter/mp3-to-midi.html.
>>> Generation rather than conversion, I guess. If the results are
>>> anything like a couple of online tools I tried it's hardly worth the
>>> effort although something very simple might work as a starter to be
>>> tidied up with a MIDI editor.
>>>
>> Using Audacity I have been able to convert an mp3 file to a .sds file
>> but I don't understand what the next step is. LMMS does not recognize
>> the .sds file.
>>
> Wow, what's in a name, let's call everything MIDI.
>
> Seriously now, .sds is sample dump standard, which can be imported
> into your sampler. The sampler can then be controlled by MIDI (LMMS).
> LMMS may have a built-in software sampler, if not you've got to get one.

I will look around for a sampler/plugin for LMMS if one exists.

On 7/22/2021 10:15 PM, TheSidhe wrote:
> On 7/22/21 1:46 PM, dillinger wrote:
>> On 7/22/21 2:19 PM, TheSidhe wrote:
>>> On 7/22/21 7:55 AM, Stephen wrote:
>>>> On 19/07/2021 02:38, dillinger wrote:
>>>>> On 17-07-2021 17:28, TheSidhe wrote:
>>>>>> Has anyone experimented with taking an mp3 file and using
>>>>>> Audacity, converting to midi, which can then be edited in LMMS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> No, MIDI is not audio.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://rolandcorp.com.au/blog/difference-between-midi-and-audio
>>>>
>>>> Agree, but it can be done, apparently:
>>>> https://www.minitool.com/video-converter/mp3-to-midi.html.
>>>> Generation rather than conversion, I guess. If the results are
>>>> anything like a couple of online tools I tried it's hardly worth the
>>>> effort although something very simple might work as a starter to be
>>>> tidied up with a MIDI editor.
>>>>
>>> Using Audacity I have been able to convert an mp3 file to a .sds file
>>> but I don't understand what the next step is. LMMS does not recognize
>>> the .sds file.
>>>
>> Wow, what's in a name, let's call everything MIDI.
>>
>> Seriously now, .sds is sample dump standard, which can be imported
>> into your sampler. The sampler can then be controlled by MIDI (LMMS).
>> LMMS may have a built-in software sampler, if not you've got to get one.
>
> I will look around for a sampler/plugin for LMMS if one exists.
>
Just for fun I installed LMMS to see what it could do.
Apparently LMMS can handle all sorts of audio files, .wav, .ogg and a
few others, but not .mp3.
What you could do is save your .mp3 as .wav in Audacity and then use
that in LMMS.
You don't need or even want MIDI for that, sample dump standard was used
years ago to exchange samples between samplers via MIDI, it isn't very
useful today.

On 7/24/21 1:04 PM, dillinger wrote:
> On 7/22/2021 10:15 PM, TheSidhe wrote:
>> On 7/22/21 1:46 PM, dillinger wrote:
>>> On 7/22/21 2:19 PM, TheSidhe wrote:
>>>> On 7/22/21 7:55 AM, Stephen wrote:
>>>>> On 19/07/2021 02:38, dillinger wrote:
>>>>>> On 17-07-2021 17:28, TheSidhe wrote:
>>>>>>> Has anyone experimented with taking an mp3 file and using
>>>>>>> Audacity, converting to midi, which can then be edited in LMMS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, MIDI is not audio.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://rolandcorp.com.au/blog/difference-between-midi-and-audio
>>>>>
>>>>> Agree, but it can be done, apparently:
>>>>> https://www.minitool.com/video-converter/mp3-to-midi.html.
>>>>> Generation rather than conversion, I guess. If the results are
>>>>> anything like a couple of online tools I tried it's hardly worth
>>>>> the effort although something very simple might work as a starter
>>>>> to be tidied up with a MIDI editor.
>>>>>
>>>> Using Audacity I have been able to convert an mp3 file to a .sds
>>>> file but I don't understand what the next step is. LMMS does not
>>>> recognize the .sds file.
>>>>
>>> Wow, what's in a name, let's call everything MIDI.
>>>
>>> Seriously now, .sds is sample dump standard, which can be imported
>>> into your sampler. The sampler can then be controlled by MIDI (LMMS).
>>> LMMS may have a built-in software sampler, if not you've got to get
>>> one.
>>
>> I will look around for a sampler/plugin for LMMS if one exists.
>>
> Just for fun I installed LMMS to see what it could do.
> Apparently LMMS can handle all sorts of audio files, .wav, .ogg and a
> few others, but not .mp3.
> What you could do is save your .mp3 as .wav in Audacity and then use
> that in LMMS.
> You don't need or even want MIDI for that, sample dump standard was
> used years ago to exchange samples between samplers via MIDI, it isn't
> very useful today.

I tried what you said, but my original question was how to convert an
audio file.. wav,mp3,.. to midi so that I can explore different
instrument sounds and tempos

On Sat, 2021-07-24 at 19:04 +0200, dillinger wrote:
> On 7/22/2021 10:15 PM, TheSidhe wrote:
> > On 7/22/21 1:46 PM, dillinger wrote:
> > > On 7/22/21 2:19 PM, TheSidhe wrote:
> > > > On 7/22/21 7:55 AM, Stephen wrote:
> > > > > On 19/07/2021 02:38, dillinger wrote:
> > > > > > On 17-07-2021 17:28, TheSidhe wrote:
> > > > > > > Has anyone experimented with taking an mp3 file and
> > > > > > > using
> > > > > > > Audacity, converting to midi, which can then be edited in
> > > > > > > LMMS.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No, MIDI is not audio.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://rolandcorp.com.au/blog/difference-between-midi-and-audio
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Agree, but it can be done, apparently:
> > > > > https://www.minitool.com/video-converter/mp3-to-midi.html
> > > > > .
> > > > > Generation rather than conversion, I guess. If the results
> > > > > are
> > > > > anything like a couple of online tools I tried it's hardly
> > > > > worth the
> > > > > effort although something very simple might work as a starter
> > > > > to be
> > > > > tidied up with a MIDI editor.
> > > > >

I do wonder if the OP understands the difficulty of the task he sets
us.

This is the musical equivalent of "speech-to-text", which works as well
as it does because it can use rules, dictionaries and meta-information
(such as knowledge of the language being spoken) to analyse the sounds
and convert them to text. But can speech-to-text capture pitch,
intonation, or the gender of the speaker?

However, midi fundamentally operates at the level of musical notation;
staves, time signatures, key, and many "threads" in parallel, one for
each instrument (or group of). All expressed in crotchets, minims,
quavers, semi-breves and whatnot.

I wonder if the OP thinks it would be realistic to ask a human being,
even an experienced musician, to listen to a piece of music and
transcribe it into musical notation? Which instrument do you listen to?
How do you analyse chords? Multiple instruments playing in harmony?
Time signature, key? It would be a multi-pass procedure, concentrating
on one part of many at each pass. So, even for a small band, with say
three or four instruments, you would have to pick it apart, identify
which instruments are being used, and attempt to capture what each of
them is doing. You'd rely on timbre to separate rhythm from bass from
lead. And then there is the percussion. But each of these voices may
overlap, in terms of frequency, with the others. Now imagine extending
that process to a reasonably complicated piece, perhaps orchestral
music, with dozens of instruments.

I tried a converter which was named in the suggested minitool.com site.
It produced a cacophony where all the voices were mapped to the piano,
and so long as you didn't try too hard, you could just about make out
the melody. No lyrics, of course. I guess it had sampled the music at
regular intervals, performed an fft on each sample, then played the
corresponding piano key for the dominant frequency. It might have even
selected several frequencies whose amplitude had exceeded some
threshold and played them all. But it has made no attempt to analyse
and mimic the instruments in use.
--
Chris

On 7/24/21 3:12 PM, Chris Ramsden wrote:
> On Sat, 2021-07-24 at 19:04 +0200, dillinger wrote:
>> On 7/22/2021 10:15 PM, TheSidhe wrote:
>>> On 7/22/21 1:46 PM, dillinger wrote:
>>>> On 7/22/21 2:19 PM, TheSidhe wrote:
>>>>> On 7/22/21 7:55 AM, Stephen wrote:
>>>>>> On 19/07/2021 02:38, dillinger wrote:
>>>>>>> On 17-07-2021 17:28, TheSidhe wrote:
>>>>>>>> Has anyone experimented with taking an mp3 file and
>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>> Audacity, converting to midi, which can then be edited in
>>>>>>>> LMMS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, MIDI is not audio.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://rolandcorp.com.au/blog/difference-between-midi-and-audio
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agree, but it can be done, apparently:
>>>>>> https://www.minitool.com/video-converter/mp3-to-midi.html
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> Generation rather than conversion, I guess. If the results
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> anything like a couple of online tools I tried it's hardly
>>>>>> worth the
>>>>>> effort although something very simple might work as a starter
>>>>>> to be
>>>>>> tidied up with a MIDI editor.
>>>>>>
> I do wonder if the OP understands the difficulty of the task he sets
> us.
>
> This is the musical equivalent of "speech-to-text", which works as well
> as it does because it can use rules, dictionaries and meta-information
> (such as knowledge of the language being spoken) to analyse the sounds
> and convert them to text. But can speech-to-text capture pitch,
> intonation, or the gender of the speaker?
>
> However, midi fundamentally operates at the level of musical notation;
> staves, time signatures, key, and many "threads" in parallel, one for
> each instrument (or group of). All expressed in crotchets, minims,
> quavers, semi-breves and whatnot.
>
> I wonder if the OP thinks it would be realistic to ask a human being,
> even an experienced musician, to listen to a piece of music and
> transcribe it into musical notation? Which instrument do you listen to?
> How do you analyse chords? Multiple instruments playing in harmony?
> Time signature, key? It would be a multi-pass procedure, concentrating
> on one part of many at each pass. So, even for a small band, with say
> three or four instruments, you would have to pick it apart, identify
> which instruments are being used, and attempt to capture what each of
> them is doing. You'd rely on timbre to separate rhythm from bass from
> lead. And then there is the percussion. But each of these voices may
> overlap, in terms of frequency, with the others. Now imagine extending
> that process to a reasonably complicated piece, perhaps orchestral
> music, with dozens of instruments.
>
> I tried a converter which was named in the suggested minitool.com site.
> It produced a cacophony where all the voices were mapped to the piano,
> and so long as you didn't try too hard, you could just about make out
> the melody. No lyrics, of course. I guess it had sampled the music at
> regular intervals, performed an fft on each sample, then played the
> corresponding piano key for the dominant frequency. It might have even
> selected several frequencies whose amplitude had exceeded some
> threshold and played them all. But it has made no attempt to analyse
> and mimic the instruments in use.

You have an excellent explanation, I guess I was hoping that with the
current state of high speed computers, using a great program like
Audacity and LMMS I could derive some kind of midi, so that I might then
add my creative touch to unfold it into some kind of music. Thanks