On 9/29/23 22:00, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-09-30, Wolf Greenblatt <wolf@greenblatt.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:10:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
>>
>>> Style matters in consumer products.
>>>
>>> This is not news.
>>>
>>> But smaller and lighter are also useful in and of themselves.
>>
>> Why should style matter at all for a phone?
>> What should matter is the performance of the phone.
>> Who cares what the phone looks like? It's just a rectangle.
>
> Explain why Apple sells more phones than any other phone company then.
> You've apparently lost touch with reality.
>

Brand.
Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 9/29/23 22:00, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-09-30, Wolf Greenblatt <wolf@greenblatt.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:10:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
>>
>>> Style matters in consumer products.
>>>
>>> This is not news.
>>>
>>> But smaller and lighter are also useful in and of themselves.
>>
>> Why should style matter at all for a phone?
>> What should matter is the performance of the phone.
>> Who cares what the phone looks like? It's just a rectangle.
>
> Explain why Apple sells more phones than any other phone company then.
> You've apparently lost touch with reality.
>

Brand.
Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2023-09-29 21:01, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/29/23 22:00, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2023-09-30, Wolf Greenblatt <wolf@greenblatt.net> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:10:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Style matters in consumer products.
>>>>
>>>> This is not news.
>>>>
>>>> But smaller and lighter are also useful in and of themselves.
>>>
>>> Why should style matter at all for a phone?
>>> What should matter is the performance of the phone.
>>> Who cares what the phone looks like? It's just a rectangle.
>>
>> Explain why  Apple sells more phones than any other phone company then.
>> You've apparently lost touch with reality.
>>
>
> Brand.
> Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.

Riiiiiiiight.

"Brand" has kept them the best-selling smartphones in the world for 16
years.

<smirk>

On 2023-09-29 21:02, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/29/23 22:00, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2023-09-30, Wolf Greenblatt <wolf@greenblatt.net> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:10:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Style matters in consumer products.
>>>>
>>>> This is not news.
>>>>
>>>> But smaller and lighter are also useful in and of themselves.
>>>
>>> Why should style matter at all for a phone?
>>> What should matter is the performance of the phone.
>>> Who cares what the phone looks like? It's just a rectangle.
>>
>> Explain why  Apple sells more phones than any other phone company then.
>> You've apparently lost touch with reality.
>>
>
> Brand.
> Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.

It seems most people who by iphones...

....the vast majority in fact...

....find them highly functional and safe.

On 9/29/23 23:09, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-09-29 21:01, candycanearter07 wrote:
>> Brand.
>> Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
>
> Riiiiiiiight.
>
> "Brand" has kept them the best-selling smartphones in the world for 16
> years.
>
> <smirk>

Yes.
People see Apple as the modern, futuristic tech company.
That takes a lot of marketing, genuine success, etc.
But once you have that, you can basically ride the loyalty to success.

How many genuine innovations has Apple made recently?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_loyalty
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2023-09-29 21:18, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/29/23 23:09, Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-09-29 21:01, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>> Brand.
>>> Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
>>
>> Riiiiiiiight.
>>
>> "Brand" has kept them the best-selling smartphones in the world for 16
>> years.
>>
>> <smirk>
>
> Yes.
> People see Apple as the modern, futuristic tech company.

The might see that once... ...or even twice...

....but they command fantastic loyalty.

> That takes a lot of marketing, genuine success, etc.
> But once you have that, you can basically ride the loyalty to success.
>
> How many genuine innovations has Apple made recently?

How is that relevant?

On 9/29/23 23:20, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-09-29 21:18, candycanearter07 wrote:
>> On 9/29/23 23:09, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2023-09-29 21:01, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>> Brand.
>>>> Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
>>>
>>> Riiiiiiiight.
>>>
>>> "Brand" has kept them the best-selling smartphones in the world for
>>> 16 years.
>>>
>>> <smirk>
>>
>> Yes.
>> People see Apple as the modern, futuristic tech company.
>
> The might see that once... ...or even twice...
>
> ...but they command fantastic loyalty.

What?

>> That takes a lot of marketing, genuine success, etc.
>> But once you have that, you can basically ride the loyalty to success.
>>
>> How many genuine innovations has Apple made recently?
>
> How is that relevant?
Pointing out that the only thing selling new iphones is the brand. (and
camera if you really care about that)
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On Sep 29, 2023, candycanearter07 wrote
(in article <uf87iv$fg0s$3@dont-email.me>):

> On 9/29/23 23:09, Alan wrote:
> > On 2023-09-29 21:01, candycanearter07 wrote:
> > > Brand.
> > > Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
> >
> > Riiiiiiiight.
> >
> > "Brand" has kept them the best-selling smartphones in the world for 16
> > years.
> >
> > <smirk>
>
> Yes.
> People see Apple as the modern, futuristic tech company.
> That takes a lot of marketing, genuine success, etc.
> But once you have that, you can basically ride the loyalty to success.
>
> How many genuine innovations has Apple made recently?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_loyalty

Like them or not:
- The Notch
- Removing the headphone jack
- The reversible charging port
- Marketable wireless earbuds
- Marketable wireless trackers
- AirDrop (like bluetooth file xfer if it didn't suck)
- Functional x86 to ARM64 translation
- On-chip ML acceleration
- Application of the broadband engine concept to laptops

Primarily Apple makes technologies that were previously unmarketable
(Wireless trackers, wireless earbuds, wireless file transfers, Thunderbolt,
binary translation, smart watches, mp3 players, etc.) appealing to the
general public.

On 2023-09-29 21:26, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/29/23 23:20, Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-09-29 21:18, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>> On 9/29/23 23:09, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2023-09-29 21:01, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>>> Brand.
>>>>> Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
>>>>
>>>> Riiiiiiiight.
>>>>
>>>> "Brand" has kept them the best-selling smartphones in the world for
>>>> 16 years.
>>>>
>>>> <smirk>
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>> People see Apple as the modern, futuristic tech company.
>>
>> The might see that once... ...or even twice...
>>
>> ...but they command fantastic loyalty.
>
> What?

"They".

>
>>> That takes a lot of marketing, genuine success, etc.
>>> But once you have that, you can basically ride the loyalty to success.
>>>
>>> How many genuine innovations has Apple made recently?
>>
>> How is that relevant?
> Pointing out that the only thing selling new iphones is the brand. (and
> camera if you really care about that)

So trust that they will work well based on previous experience can't
play any role, can it?

On 9/29/23 23:38, Dorper wrote:
> Like them or not:
> - The Notch
> - Removing the headphone jack
> - The reversible charging port
> - Marketable wireless earbuds
> - Marketable wireless trackers
> - AirDrop (like bluetooth file xfer if it didn't suck)
> - Functional x86 to ARM64 translation
> - On-chip ML acceleration
> - Application of the broadband engine concept to laptops
>
> Primarily Apple makes technologies that were previously unmarketable
> (Wireless trackers, wireless earbuds, wireless file transfers, Thunderbolt,
> binary translation, smart watches, mp3 players, etc.) appealing to the
> general public.
>

To be fair, yes.
The marketing hides that they haven't made anything NEW, just repackaged
an existing thing and made it a selling point.

Apple managed to make their massive USB-C scandal into an "exciting new
model" of devices.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 9/29/23 23:44, Alan wrote:
> So trust that they will work well based on previous experience can't
> play any role, can it?
https://techcrunch.com/2022/01/08/apples-biggest-scandal-of-2022-is-already-happening/
https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apple-encryption-court-order-news/
https://www.macworld.com/article/668520/from-antennagate-to-touch-disease-the-11-biggest-apple-scandals.html
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/tech/apple-labor-department-investigation/index.html
https://www.tomsguide.com/us/pictures-story/1418-biggest-apple-fails.html
https://www.aol.com/finance/apple-facing-mountain-controversies-investors-172000800.html

There's also plenty of evidence it doesn't always work well.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2023-09-29 21:54, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/29/23 23:44, Alan wrote:
>> So trust that they will work well based on previous experience can't
>> play any role, can it?
> https://techcrunch.com/2022/01/08/apples-biggest-scandal-of-2022-is-already-happening/
> https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apple-encryption-court-order-news/
> https://www.macworld.com/article/668520/from-antennagate-to-touch-disease-the-11-biggest-apple-scandals.html
> https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/tech/apple-labor-department-investigation/index.html
> https://www.tomsguide.com/us/pictures-story/1418-biggest-apple-fails.html
> https://www.aol.com/finance/apple-facing-mountain-controversies-investors-172000800.html
>
> There's also plenty of evidence it doesn't always work well.

"doesn't always" is hardly sufficient.

See if you can figure out why.

On 9/29/23 23:58, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-09-29 21:54, candycanearter07 wrote:
>> On 9/29/23 23:44, Alan wrote:
>>> So trust that they will work well based on previous experience can't
>>> play any role, can it?
>> https://techcrunch.com/2022/01/08/apples-biggest-scandal-of-2022-is-already-happening/
>> https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apple-encryption-court-order-news/
>> https://www.macworld.com/article/668520/from-antennagate-to-touch-disease-the-11-biggest-apple-scandals.html
>> https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/tech/apple-labor-department-investigation/index.html
>> https://www.tomsguide.com/us/pictures-story/1418-biggest-apple-fails.html
>> https://www.aol.com/finance/apple-facing-mountain-controversies-investors-172000800.html
>>
>> There's also plenty of evidence it doesn't always work well.
>
> "doesn't always" is hardly sufficient.
>
> See if you can figure out why.

Consider how many controversies there are.
Consider what that says about their track record.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2023-09-29 22:05, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/29/23 23:58, Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-09-29 21:54, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>> On 9/29/23 23:44, Alan wrote:
>>>> So trust that they will work well based on previous experience can't
>>>> play any role, can it?
>>> https://techcrunch.com/2022/01/08/apples-biggest-scandal-of-2022-is-already-happening/
>>> https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apple-encryption-court-order-news/
>>> https://www.macworld.com/article/668520/from-antennagate-to-touch-disease-the-11-biggest-apple-scandals.html
>>> https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/tech/apple-labor-department-investigation/index.html
>>> https://www.tomsguide.com/us/pictures-story/1418-biggest-apple-fails.html
>>> https://www.aol.com/finance/apple-facing-mountain-controversies-investors-172000800.html
>>>
>>> There's also plenty of evidence it doesn't always work well.
>>
>> "doesn't always" is hardly sufficient.
>>
>> See if you can figure out why.
>
> Consider how many controversies there are.
> Consider what that says about their track record.

So, no.

You can't figure it out.

Got it.

On Sep 29, 2023, candycanearter07 wrote
(in article <uf8ab5$n7qc$1@dont-email.me>):

> On 9/29/23 23:58, Alan wrote:
> > On 2023-09-29 21:54, candycanearter07 wrote:
> > > On 9/29/23 23:44, Alan wrote:
> > > > So trust that they will work well based on previous experience can't
> > > > play any role, can it?
> > > https://techcrunch.com/2022/01/08/apples-biggest-scandal-of-2022-is-already
> > > -happening/
> > > https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apple-encryption-court-order-news/
> > > https://www.macworld.com/article/668520/from-antennagate-to-touch-disease-t
> > > he-11-biggest-apple-scandals.html
> > > https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/tech/apple-labor-department-investigation/in
> > > dex.html
> > > https://www.tomsguide.com/us/pictures-story/1418-biggest-apple-fails.html
> > > https://www.aol.com/finance/apple-facing-mountain-controversies-investors-1
> > > 72000800.html
> > >
> > > There's also plenty of evidence it doesn't always work well.
> >
> > "doesn't always" is hardly sufficient.
> >
> > See if you can figure out why.
>
> Consider how many controversies there are.
> Consider what that says about their track record.

Unlike every other tech company which never has controversies. Manufacturing
cell phones so faulty that they are effectively destructive devices? Never
heard of it.

On Sep 29, 2023, candycanearter07 wrote
(in article <uf89pi$n7qd$1@dont-email.me>):

> On 9/29/23 23:38, Dorper wrote:
> > Like them or not:
> > - The Notch
> > - Removing the headphone jack
> > - The reversible charging port
> > - Marketable wireless earbuds
> > - Marketable wireless trackers
> > - AirDrop (like bluetooth file xfer if it didn't suck)
> > - Functional x86 to ARM64 translation
> > - On-chip ML acceleration
> > - Application of the broadband engine concept to laptops
> >
> > Primarily Apple makes technologies that were previously unmarketable
> > (Wireless trackers, wireless earbuds, wireless file transfers, Thunderbolt,
> > binary translation, smart watches, mp3 players, etc.) appealing to the
> > general public.
>
> To be fair, yes.
> The marketing hides that they haven't made anything NEW, just repackaged
> an existing thing and made it a selling point.
>
> Apple managed to make their massive USB-C scandal into an "exciting new
> model" of devices.

All technology is built upon existing technology.

On 2023-09-29 10:10 p.m., Alan wrote:
> On 2023-09-29 18:04, RabidPedagog wrote:
>> On 2023-09-29 7:19 p.m., sms wrote:
>>> On 9/29/2023 1:44 PM, RabidPedagog wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> I believe it, myself. The obsession with making things thinner was
>>>> going to going significant problems for cooling no matter what they
>>>> did. Still, my iPhone 13 never gets warm and my MacBook Air M1 never
>>>> gets warmer than 33c (I checked).
>>>
>>> They'll probably need to follow Samsung's lead and use vapor chamber
>>> cooling.
>>> <https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/what-is-vapor-chamber-cooling-smartphones-tested-explained/>.
>>>
>>> For Snapdragon SOCs and Samsung SOCs there is really no choice, they
>>> generate too much heat to use just heat pipes because the 5G modem is
>>> integrated.
>>>
>>> For the Bionic chips, Apple was able to avoid the expense and the
>>> space needed by vapor chamber cooling because the modem is a separate
>>> device but the Bionic chips are getting more complex, adding more
>>> transistors and increasing the amount of heat generated.
>>>
>>> Eventually, Apple will integrate their own 5G modem into the Bionic
>>> and then they'll likely be forced to use vapor chamber cooling but
>>> that likely won't happen until the iPhone 19 or 20 depending on how
>>> the modem development goes. They'll likely first go with a separate
>>> modem chip in the 17 and 18 before integrating it into the Bionic.
>>>
>>> Initially, Kuo believed that the iPhone 14 Pro would use vapor
>>> chamber cooling but it did not. The issue with vapor chamber cooling
>>> is that it could add maybe 0.2-0.3mm to the thickness of the phone.
>>> The 15 Pro actually went down in thickness by 0.1mm. OTOH, Would any
>>> user would be upset about a fraction of a mm increase in thickness?
>>
>> I love Apple's newer devices but there is no denying that style has a
>> lot to do with the product they're selling (despite the fact that the
>> MacBook Air 15 is butt ugly). As such, the extra fraction of a mm in
>> thickness would likely bother the people who don't know a thing about
>> the internals, but want their device to be the bee's knees in terms of
>> looks. It's the price Apple to pay for insisting on attracting both
>> computer users and idiots who only buy technology to be noticed.
>>
>
> Style matters in consumer products.
>
> This is not news.
>
> But smaller and lighter are also useful in and of themselves.

How does the iPhone 15 being thinner than a similarly-powered Android
give it any kind of additional utility?

--
RabidPedagog
TG: @RabidPedagog
Galatians 6:7

On 2023-09-29 10:28 p.m., *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-09-30, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> On 2023-09-29, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 9/29/2023 1:44 PM, RabidPedagog wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> I believe it, myself. The obsession with making things thinner was
>>>>> going to going significant problems for cooling no matter what they
>>>>> did. Still, my iPhone 13 never gets warm and my MacBook Air M1
>>>>> never gets warmer than 33c (I checked).
>>>>
>>>> They'll probably need to follow Samsung's lead and use vapor chamber
>>>> cooling.
>>>
>>> You're assuming (without evidence) that this is a hardware issue. I've
>>> seen owners of other models reporting that after upgrading to iOS 17
>>> their devices got hot too. I've also seen widely varying reports of
>>> what devices are doing during the heat generation. Some report it
>>> while doing resource-intensive operations, and other while relatively
>>> idle. So it's a little early to make such assumptions. For all we know
>>> this is simply a software defect that will be fixed in a future
>>> update.
>>
>> "Honestly, I found major heat issues even on 12 Pro after the iOS 17
>> update. Sometimes my phone starts getting hot without any particular
>> reason"
>> <https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k29xuf8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>
>>
>> "Yeah iOS 17 might be the cause of this rather than the hardware. My 11
>> Pro is getting much worse battery life since iOS 16. It’s also getting
>> hotter."
>> <https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k2a491i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>
>>
>> "Agreed there is some sort of looping glitch. I setup a 15 pro max for
>> the so and her phone well is pretty much ok. There was some conversion
>> from 16 to 17 that has gone off the rails. My 14 pro is tanking bad and
>> it honestly started after a security update in the 16 family. So I
>> wonder if they have adjusted something and had unintended consequences"
>> <https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k2a87ly/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>
>>
>> "Same, noticed my 14 Pro Max getting really hot and draining battery
>> fast when using Instagram for example, which never have been an issue on
>> that phone for me with iOS 16 Was also the first time I had to use
>> battery saving mode so for me there is something wrong since upgrading
>> to iOS 17. edit: maybe it could be this?: iPhone 15 Overheating? It is
>> Instagram app for me and I have a fix for you. - YouTube"
>> <>https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k2aqc91/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
>>
>> ""It may not just be an iPhone 15 issue. My 14P gets blazing hot during
>> Facetime calls. Like actually uncomfortable to touch the screen. And the
>> battery drains about 5% every 10 minutes of call time. Started during
>> one of the iOS 17 betas and still hasn't been fixed.
>> <>https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k2acqyc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
>>
>> "My 14 pro gets hot AF as well randomly"
>> <https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k2amor7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>
>>
>> ...and the list goes on...
>>
>> I realize you trolls *really* want this product to be defective, but
>> there are lots of indications this may just be a software glitch. It may
>> be really convenient for you to focus only on the reports to match your
>> bias, but the actual adults here don't necessarily have that burning
>> desire and are far more interested in factual, honest discussion. 😉
>>
> My iPhone 13 gets hot sometimes when I’m charging her, she’s sunbathing on
> my car seat, or wearing that negligee I bought for special occasions.
>
> I guess I’ll skip iPhone 15 since unlucky 13 is doing fine so far.

I got my own iPhone 13 with the intention of holding onto it for at
least four years. Two more to go. It's done a wonderful job so far, but
ithas a lot of trouble with Bluetooth in the car. Occasional restarts of
the device are necessary. It seems that this has already been widely
reported without being fixed.

--
RabidPedagog
TG: @RabidPedagog
Galatians 6:7

On 2023-09-30 12:09 a.m., Alan wrote:
> On 2023-09-29 21:01, candycanearter07 wrote:
>> On 9/29/23 22:00, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2023-09-30, Wolf Greenblatt <wolf@greenblatt.net> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:10:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Style matters in consumer products.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not news.
>>>>>
>>>>> But smaller and lighter are also useful in and of themselves.
>>>>
>>>> Why should style matter at all for a phone?
>>>> What should matter is the performance of the phone.
>>>> Who cares what the phone looks like? It's just a rectangle.
>>>
>>> Explain why  Apple sells more phones than any other phone company then.
>>> You've apparently lost touch with reality.
>>>
>>
>> Brand.
>> Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
>
> Riiiiiiiight.
>
> "Brand" has kept them the best-selling smartphones in the world for 16
> years.
>
> <smirk>

I have to agree with Alan here. If they focused on safety/functionality,
they would be no better off than they were in the mid-90s when they
almost went bankrupt. They need to continue standing out from the
competition, and if style is all that the potential customer considers,
that's fine. In my case, the company's decision to concentrate on
battery life and by extension battery longevity without compromising on
performance through its investment in the ARM architecture is the
principal selling point. I see more potential from the Mx processors
than I do from the x86-64 platform. Some might not mind the fact that
they need twice the amount of RAM, a much bigger battery and powerful
fans to get the same kind of performance, but I do. I don't see myself
buying another PC once this one becomes obsolete.

--
RabidPedagog
TG: @RabidPedagog
Galatians 6:7

On 2023-09-30 12:38 a.m., Dorper wrote:
> On Sep 29, 2023, candycanearter07 wrote
> (in article <uf87iv$fg0s$3@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 9/29/23 23:09, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2023-09-29 21:01, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>> Brand.
>>>> Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
>>>
>>> Riiiiiiiight.
>>>
>>> "Brand" has kept them the best-selling smartphones in the world for 16
>>> years.
>>>
>>> <smirk>
>>
>> Yes.
>> People see Apple as the modern, futuristic tech company.
>> That takes a lot of marketing, genuine success, etc.
>> But once you have that, you can basically ride the loyalty to success.
>>
>> How many genuine innovations has Apple made recently?
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_loyalty
>
> Like them or not:
> - The Notch
> - Removing the headphone jack
> - The reversible charging port
> - Marketable wireless earbuds
> - Marketable wireless trackers
> - AirDrop (like bluetooth file xfer if it didn't suck)
> - Functional x86 to ARM64 translation
> - On-chip ML acceleration
> - Application of the broadband engine concept to laptops
>
> Primarily Apple makes technologies that were previously unmarketable
> (Wireless trackers, wireless earbuds, wireless file transfers, Thunderbolt,
> binary translation, smart watches, mp3 players, etc.) appealing to the
> general public.

Fantastic post. There is absolutely no denying that this rings true.
Most PC and Android users who will point out that their devices get
certain features before iPhones do neglect to mention that they are
usually cumbersome, hidden or barely functional. When Apple decides to
implement the same functionality, it is done in such a way that it
appears seamless and even the most novice of users are able to take
advantage of them right away. Also, what they implement sometimes
appears like the most obvious thing, such as the way that Mac OS now
hides every window when you click on the desktop or natural scrolling.

--
RabidPedagog
TG: @RabidPedagog
Galatians 6:7

On 2023-09-30 12:54 a.m., candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/29/23 23:38, Dorper wrote:
>> Like them or not:
>> - The Notch
>> - Removing the headphone jack
>> - The reversible charging port
>> - Marketable wireless earbuds
>> - Marketable wireless trackers
>> - AirDrop (like bluetooth file xfer if it didn't suck)
>> - Functional x86 to ARM64 translation
>> - On-chip ML acceleration
>> - Application of the broadband engine concept to laptops
>>
>> Primarily Apple makes technologies that were previously unmarketable
>> (Wireless trackers, wireless earbuds, wireless file transfers,
>> Thunderbolt,
>> binary translation, smart watches, mp3 players, etc.) appealing to the
>> general public.
>>
>
> To be fair, yes.
> The marketing hides that they haven't made anything NEW, just repackaged
> an existing thing and made it a selling point.
>
> Apple managed to make their massive USB-C scandal into an "exciting new
> model" of devices.

There is much truth here too. They fought USB-C for a long time, telling
people that Lightning was better in every possible way. They managed to
spin the fact that they were _forced_ to migrate to USB-C into an
enormous positive so effectively that it can be used as an example of
marketing brilliance in university programs.

--
RabidPedagog
TG: @RabidPedagog
Galatians 6:7

On 2023-09-29 21:04, RabidPedagog wrote:

> looks. It's the price Apple to pay for insisting on attracting both
> computer users and idiots who only buy technology to be noticed.

Quite the assumption.

I don't wave my phone around. OTOH, it integrates beautifully with the
rest of my Apple products (Macs, iPad and Watch) in ways other "system"
vendors can only dream of.

I was at an outlet of my ISP the other day and asked how the iPhone 15
was selling. "Comme des petits pains chauds!". That said, a couple
were there picking up new Motorola's...

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-09-29 22:56, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:10:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
>
>> Style matters in consumer products.
>>
>> This is not news.
>>
>> But smaller and lighter are also useful in and of themselves.
>
> Why should style matter at all for a phone?

Like he said, it's a consumer product and face it, the vast majority of
smartphone buyers are not tech obsessed.

And if you believe Samsung et al do not attend to the style of their
smartphones (as the vast majority of their market is no more tech savvy
or obsessed), you haven't been paying attention.

> What should matter is the performance of the phone.

For most people the functionality of the phone is important. There's a
difference.

> Who cares what the phone looks like? It's just a rectangle.

If it were a rectangle it would be infinitely thin.

So I guess you're not all that tech savvy yourself.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-09-30 00:18, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/29/23 23:09, Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-09-29 21:01, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>> Brand.
>>> Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
>>
>> Riiiiiiiight.
>>
>> "Brand" has kept them the best-selling smartphones in the world for 16
>> years.
>>
>> <smirk>
>
> Yes.
> People see Apple as the modern, futuristic tech company.
> That takes a lot of marketing, genuine success, etc.
> But once you have that, you can basically ride the loyalty to success.
>
> How many genuine innovations has Apple made recently?

Innovations don't have to happen every year. If you look at the Apple
Vision Pro, it incorporates numerous innovations that set it apart from
the others - will take some time to get to market in full (and not
something I want/need).

The M series processors are definitely innovative as their approach to
IO is so completely different than other GP CPU's - and a major
contributor to their efficiency and speed.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_loyalty

Under the hood is where the Apple magic happens - esp. in the
integration of the devices themselves, but more importantly across
devices in the eco-system. So one who takes advantage of the eco-system
(as I do at home and in some part at work) I will always get Apple
devices. It pays off too. (This is all anchored in my decision to
switch from Windows to Mac in 2006. My business began switching in
about 2014).

And since Apple _created_[1] this class with the introduction of the
iPhone, the others are just followers who occasionally score a win on
some feature or other.

The other day I was at my ISP's local outlet and there was a couple
buying Motorola smart phones. The fellow went on to list every model of
Motorola phone he's had since the 90's. He's a golfer. And if Motorola
was good enough for Lee Trevino it was good enough for him. 30 years of
brand loyalty over a golfer!

[1] Yes, there were other phones that pre-saged the era, but never quite
got it right with the exception of the Blackberry. And it, like the
others are all footnotes now while the Android swarm adopted the iPhone
model whole cloth.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-09-30 00:38, Dorper wrote:
> On Sep 29, 2023, candycanearter07 wrote
> (in article <uf87iv$fg0s$3@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 9/29/23 23:09, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2023-09-29 21:01, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>> Brand.
>>>> Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
>>>
>>> Riiiiiiiight.
>>>
>>> "Brand" has kept them the best-selling smartphones in the world for 16
>>> years.
>>>
>>> <smirk>
>>
>> Yes.
>> People see Apple as the modern, futuristic tech company.
>> That takes a lot of marketing, genuine success, etc.
>> But once you have that, you can basically ride the loyalty to success.
>>
>> How many genuine innovations has Apple made recently?
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_loyalty
>
> Like them or not:
> - The Notch
> - Removing the headphone jack
> - The reversible charging port
> - Marketable wireless earbuds
> - Marketable wireless trackers
> - AirDrop (like bluetooth file xfer if it didn't suck)

AirDrop works fine, actually.

> - Functional x86 to ARM64 translation
> - On-chip ML acceleration
> - Application of the broadband engine concept to laptops
>
> Primarily Apple makes technologies that were previously unmarketable
> (Wireless trackers, wireless earbuds, wireless file transfers, Thunderbolt,
> binary translation, smart watches, mp3 players, etc.) appealing to the
> general public.

It doesn't make them "marketable". It makes them work very well.

In part due to the eco-system "glue" via iCloud.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.