The world's writing systems

https://www.worldswritingsystems.org/index.html

https://twitter.com/abenitezburraco/status/1688633357620359168?t=W-zHLOp4L3wF9CRLpmgwGA&s=19

Sambaqui (shellmound) societies are among the most intriguing archaeological phenomena in pre-colonial South America, extending from approximately 8,000 to 1,000 years before present (yr BP) across 3,000 km on the Atlantic coast. However, little is known about their connection to early Holocene hunter-gatherers, how this may have contributed to different historical pathways and the processes through which late Holocene ceramists came to rule the coast shortly before European contact. To contribute to our understanding of the population history of indigenous societies on the eastern coast of South America, we produced genome-wide data from 34 ancient individuals as early as 10,000 yr BP from four different regions in Brazil. Early Holocene hunter-gatherers were found to lack shared genetic drift among themselves and with later populations from eastern South America, suggesting that they derived from a common radiation and did not contribute substantially to later coastal groups. Our analyses show genetic heterogeneity among contemporaneous Sambaqui groups from the southeastern and southern Brazilian coast, contrary to the similarity expressed in the archaeological record. The complex history of intercultural contact between inland horticulturists and coastal populations becomes genetically evident during the final horizon of Sambaqui societies, from around 2,200 yr BP, corroborating evidence of cultural change.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-023-02114-9

Sambaqui @Tupi = shellmound midden, shore shell scrap heap
Xyuambuatlachyah xambachy dome-body? Tomb-build?

The settlement of the Atlantic coast by maritime societies is a central topic in South American archaeology. Across ~3,000 km of the coast of Brazil, semi-sedentary populations, with seemingly large demography, produced thousands of shellmounds and shell middens, locally known as sambaquis (heaps of shell, in the Tupi language), for over 7,000 years. Subsistence was based on a mixed economy, combining aquatic resources and plants, complemented by hunting of terrestrial mammals and horticulture1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8. Sambaquis are the product of planned and long-term deposition of shells, fish remains, plants, artefacts, combustion debris and local sediments, and they were used as territorial markers, dwellings, cemeteries and/or ceremonial sites. On the southern Brazilian coast, funerary shellmounds can reach monumental heights (of up to 30 metres) and often contain hundreds of human burials, suggesting a high demographic density unparalleled in the South American lowlands3,6,9,10,11. In a singular enclave south of São Paulo State, further inland from the coast (Vale do Ribeira de Iguape), sambaqui sites are within the Atlantic Forest12,13,14,15. Here there is evidence of early Holocene settlement in the riverine sambaqui of Capelinha, as revealed by a male individual directly dated to ~10,400 years before present (yr BP) (we identify all analysed individuals by rounding the mean calibrated age in years BP)10. This individual was named ‘Luzio’, as a reference to ‘Luzia’, a final Pleistocene female skeleton found in the Lagoa Santa region in east-central Brazil10,16,17. Both individuals are at the centre of long-lasting debates for exhibiting the so-called paleoamerican cranial morphology that differs from that of present-day indigenous peoples10,18. The earliest evidence of human settlement on the Atlantic coast starts between ~8,700 and 7,000 yr BP with an intensification of sambaqui construction between 5,500 yr BP and 2,200 yr BP2,4,6,19. The relationship between riverine and coastal sambaquis is still a matter of debate, although bioarchaeological studies point towards a biological link20,21,22,23, and some researchers suggest a late Pleistocene/early Holocene cultural connection that faded through time24,25,26,27.

The disappearance of Sambaqui societies started 2,000 years ago, when funerary fishmounds replaced shellmounds in the territory where they previously thrived4,28,29,30,31

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:10:20 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:

> The world's writing systems

Well, you can't copyright a title.

> https://www.worldswritingsystems.org/index.html
>
> https://twitter.com/abenitezburraco/status/1688633357620359168?t=W-zHLOp4L3wF9CRLpmgwGA&s=19

Engineering vs science

Science method: prescribed process which reveals universal truths, via - question, observe, hypothesize, test, analyse, interpret.

Engineering method: non-prescribed process which seeks to solve specific local problems in real-world situations with incomplete data using heuristics (rules of thumb).

--

More than 428 posts in this thread. Am considering using one of the artificial intel algorithms on the paleo-etymology threads, but not familiar enough with the process yet. Hmm. Probably a huge amount of editing/correcting would be required to get anything useful out of it. The base would be to analyse data within the paradigm of one single human language, and would be strengthened by including 20+ comparative basal word lists from around the world. This is one of the rare occasions when I wish I was an academic, with interested helpful knowledgeable interns to filter the massive tomes of data, verifying via wikipedia, etymology online, OED, other historical sources.. How am I gonna get this done in one lifetime? Crowd-sourcing via internet request to anyone with interest in language and word evolution?

A puzzle to solve.

Now reading a book, 'The dictionary of lost words' by Pip Williams, about the Scriptorium and the OED from the perspective of a girl who grew up in the middle of it. Good read.

Mesne legal term intermediate (mezzanine?)

Mesnalty, root mesne
Mense generous, kind, tactful, give honor to
Mensis month (menses plural)
Mensurate
Menstruate
Means vs meaning vs meanie
Meander
Men
Mention

https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Dictionary_of_Lost_Words.html?id=qxPyDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&gboemv=1#v=onepage&q&f=false

Was language a result of daily diving and waterside life?

https://groups.io/g/AAT/message/75080

This Sunday (13th August 11pm West Aus Time) WHAT TALK #22 - Ulrike Greibel: Diving, flight, and the origins of vocal flexibility and language.
Please consider yourself most cordially invited to the 22nd WHAT Talk this coming Sunday, 13th August at 11pm West Australian Time (10am Memphis, USA, 4pm London, 5pm Brussels, 11pm Tokyo & Midnight Canberra).

I am delighted that Dr Ulrike Greibel of Memphis University has agreed to talk to us about her research into language origins. I personally have thought for a long time that the evolution of fully syntactical speech was the major step that set Homo sapiens on their trajectory to dominate and, shamefully, replace all other hominids and so many other animals on the planet. The critical point here is that the most significant preadaptation for speech we have, that other great apes lack, is surely fine voluntary breath control. Understanding how this feature evolved promises to take us at least half-way to understanding how language itself evolved. Ulrike started out as a marine biologist, and so had no hesitation in pursuing the line of enquiry that leads one to consider if swimming and diving might have been the perfect exaptation for language origin.

Please feel free to share this invitation (and the link below) with anyone you know who might be interested in the evolution of human beings and, specifically, why we alone amongst the primates have the ability to speak.

This is the abstract of her talk..

Most species who communicate vocally have genetically innate calls that can be modified very little. Vocal learning and vocal flexibility can be found only in very few groups in the animal kingdom. Interestingly, we find these vocal learners amongst the birds, bats, marine mammals, and one amongst the primates – Homo sapiens. In this talk I want to explore the hypothesis that flight and an aquatic lifestyle offered an opportunity to evolve the neuronal and cognitive basis for learned vocalizations – namely the refined conscious control of the valve mechanisms that modulate the pressures of air flow during breathing. Furthermore, the evolution of vocal language would have been impossible without these conscious control mechanisms. Since many human traits (upright gait, hairlessness, subcutaneous fat layers etc) point to an extended period of living in a waterside habitat, in which humans gathered their food mostly in the water through wading, swimming and diving, it might explain why humans – in contrast to all the other primates – were able to vocalize flexibly and to learn to imitate and create new vocalizations.

I will also offer a hypothesis about why certain flying or swimming species evolved flexible vocalizations while others did not. We propose that the necessity of vocal fitness signaling in altricial offspring (chicks. pups, cubs, etc) to convince their parents that they are worth necessary investment created the evolutionary pressure for increased vocal displays (“babbling”) which can be found in many species who also use vocal fitness displays in adulthood during mating to either impress females or to deter male competition. This claim for vocal fitness signaling is also supported by evidence of extensive vocal displays in the human infant during early development.

And this is her potted biography…

Current affiliations:

Faculty affiliate, The University of Memphis, Institute for Intelligent Systems, FedEx Institute of Technology Memphis, 365 Innovation DriveMemphis, TN 38152, USA

Adjunct faculty, School of Communication Sciences and Disorders, The University of Memphis

Member of the Konrad Lorenz Institute for Evolution and Cognition Research, Klosterneuburg, Austria

Research interests:

I am interested in evolution, cognition and communication in general, currently working on communication in primates. I am specially interested in theoretical aspects of communication and the comparison of animal communication systems with human communication and the evolution of language.

As always, please go to www.whattalks.com or the YouTube Channel for more details or to see videos of previous talks.

Here is the link…

Algis Kuliukas is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Topic: WHAT Talk #22 Ulrike Greibel Diving, flight, and the origins of vocal flexibility and language

Time: Aug 13, 2023 10:45 PM Perth

Join Zoom Meeting

https://us06web.zoom.us/j/83514870512?pwd=d1RJbU54NXArK1NKV0ZydUVRNUE3dz09

Meeting ID: 835 1487 0512

Passcode: 665075

Be careful to check your local time zone in case of local daylight savings but perhaps check out www.worldtimebuddy.com to help

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:21:13 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> Engineering vs science
>
> Science method: prescribed process which reveals universal truths, via - question, observe, hypothesize, test, analyse, interpret.
>
> Engineering method: non-prescribed process which seeks to solve specific local problems in real-world situations with incomplete data using heuristics (rules of thumb).
>
> --
>
> More than 428 posts in this thread. Am considering using one of the artificial intel algorithms on the paleo-etymology threads, but not familiar enough with the process yet. Hmm. Probably a huge amount of editing/correcting would be required to get anything useful out of it. The base would be to analyse data within the paradigm of one single human language, and would be strengthened by including 20+ comparative basal word lists from around the world. This is one of the rare occasions when I wish I was an academic, with interested helpful knowledgeable interns to filter the massive tomes of data, verifying via wikipedia, etymology online, OED, other historical sources. How am I gonna get this done in one lifetime? Crowd-sourcing via internet request to anyone with interest in language and word evolution?
>
> A puzzle to solve.

A sampling of AI re. chatbot ChatGPT response to a question.

Can you suggest some research on the aquatic ape hypothesis I can read?

ChatGPT

Certainly! Here are a few key works and resources related to the aquatic ape hypothesis that you can explore for further reading:

"The Aquatic Ape Hypothesis" by Elaine Morgan: This book, published in 1982, is often considered a foundational work on the subject. Elaine Morgan presents the hypothesis and provides arguments in favor of it. It offers a comprehensive overview of the hypothesis and its supporting evidence.

"The Naked Ape: A Zoologist's Study of the Human Animal" by Desmond Morris: Although not solely focused on the aquatic ape hypothesis, this book by Desmond Morris discusses various aspects of human evolution and behavior. It touches on some ideas related to the AAH and provides an accessible introduction to the topic.

"The Waterside Ape: An Alternative Account of Human Evolution" by Peter Rhys Evans: This book, published in 2010, presents an updated version of the aquatic ape hypothesis. It offers a detailed examination of the hypothesis and proposes a new framework for understanding human evolution.

"The Aquatic Ape: Fact or Fiction?" edited by Marcellin Grinevald and Glenn C. Guenther: This collection of essays, published in 1997, features contributions from various researchers who provide critical analyses and alternative perspectives on the AAH. It offers a balanced view by presenting arguments both for and against the hypothesis.

"The Aquatic Ape: A Theory Under Water" by Marc Verhaegen: This article, published in 2012, discusses the AAH from a paleontological and anatomical perspective. It presents new evidence and arguments in favor of the hypothesis and challenges some of the conventional explanations for human evolution.

proceed vs. precede

The verb proceed means “to move forward,” “to continue an action,” or “to go on to do something.” For example:

Please proceed carefully—there are many crevices in the cave.
The play proceeded after a short intermission.
The plural noun form proceeds is most commonly used to mean “money or profit earned from a transaction.” For example:

All of the proceeds from the art auction were donated to charity.
The verb precede means “to go before” or “to preface.” For example:

He preceded her as president.
She preceded her instructions with an important announcement.
The chapters that precede this one are quite different.
In both words, the ending comes from the word cede, which comes from the Latin verb cēdere, meaning “to go.”

But to remember the difference between the two words, you can look at their prefixes. The prefix pro- in proceed means “forward,” while the prefix pre- in precede means “before".

Predecessor antecedent procession precession process progression recede recess regress

French
Sac sack, bag
Baguette rod (narrow loaf of bread/pain) batter?

batter (v.)
"strike repeatedly, beat violently and rapidly," early 14c., from Old French batre "to beat, strike" (11c., Modern French battre "to beat, to strike"), from Latin battuere, batuere "to beat, strike," a rare word in literary Latin but evidently an old one and popular in Vulgar Latin. It is said to be probably borrowed from Gaulish (compare Welsh bathu "beat," Irish and Gaelic bat, bata "staff, cudgel") and to be perhaps from PIE root *bhau- "to strike." (source also of Welsh bathu "beat;" Old English beadu "battle," beatan "to beat," bytl "hammer, mallet")

(Xyua)mbuatl.a

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 8:06:35 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> Sambaqui (shellmound) societies are among the most intriguing archaeological phenomena in pre-colonial South America, extending from approximately 8,000 to 1,000 years before present (yr BP) across 3,000 km on the Atlantic coast.

How do you know this isn't?:
=============Man Finds ‘3-Fingered Claw of 9-Foot Alien' In Cave Near Cusco, Peru
Metro UK Newspaper - Jan 9, 2017
-- https://metro.co.uk/2017/01/09/man-finds-three-fingered-claw-of-nine-foot-alien-in-cave-near-ancient-city-6369916/

Hooligan from chiuleag @Scot Gaelic: biting midge
back in 1872 even Queen Victoria was forced to abandon a Highland picnic after complaining of being 'half-devoured' by the clouds of midges. Around the time of the Jacobite Rising (1745), the English commander in chief , Marshall Wade, misheard the Gaelic word for midge, "Chiuleag", and having experienced their incessant attacks, coined the word "hooligans".
-

Hack (computer)
Furbizia @Ital
Jugaad @Hindi
Gambiarra @Braz Portg

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 3:50:48 PM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 8:06:35 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > Sambaqui (shellmound) societies are among the most intriguing archaeological phenomena in pre-colonial South America, extending from approximately 8,000 to 1,000 years before present (yr BP) across 3,000 km on the Atlantic coast.
> How do you know this isn't?:
> ==============
> Man Finds ‘3-Fingered Claw of 9-Foot Alien' In Cave Near Cusco, Peru
> Metro UK Newspaper - Jan 9, 2017
> -- https://metro.co.uk/2017/01/09/man-finds-three-fingered-claw-of-nine-foot-alien-in-cave-near-ancient-city-6369916/
Ground sloth

On 14/08/2023 12:23 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> Hooligan from chiuleag @Scot Gaelic: biting midge
> back in 1872 even Queen Victoria was forced to abandon a Highland picnic after complaining of being 'half-devoured' by the clouds of midges. Around the time of the Jacobite Rising (1745), the English commander in chief , Marshall Wade, misheard the Gaelic word for midge, "Chiuleag", and having experienced their incessant attacks, coined the word "hooligans".

"Misheard" is a strange term to use here.
A more serious difficulty with the Gaelic story is that "hooligan"
doesn't turn up in English until the 1890s.

>
> Hack (computer)
> Furbizia @Ital
> Jugaad @Hindi
> Gambiarra @Braz Portg
>

On 14/08/2023 4:19 p.m., Ross Clark wrote:
> On 14/08/2023 12:23 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
>> Hooligan from chiuleag @Scot Gaelic:  biting midge
>> back in 1872 even Queen Victoria was forced to abandon a Highland
>> picnic after complaining of being 'half-devoured' by the clouds of
>> midges. Around the time of the Jacobite Rising (1745), the English
>> commander in chief , Marshall Wade, misheard the Gaelic word for
>> midge, "Chiuleag", and having experienced their incessant attacks,
>> coined the word "hooligans".
>
> "Misheard" is a strange term to use here.
> A more serious difficulty with the Gaelic story is that "hooligan"
> doesn't turn up in English until the 1890s.
>

Furtherer... "Teach Yourself Gaelic" (1971) has nothing to say about
midges, but gives cuileag (feminine noun, plural cuileagan) 'fly'.
Someone more advanced in Celtic studies can perhaps illuminate the
connection with chiuleag.

On 2023-08-14, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> wrote:

>>> Hooligan from chiuleag @Scot Gaelic:  biting midge
>
> Furtherer... "Teach Yourself Gaelic" (1971) has nothing to say about
> midges, but gives cuileag (feminine noun, plural cuileagan) 'fly'.
> Someone more advanced in Celtic studies can perhaps illuminate the
> connection with chiuleag.

*chiuleag appears to be a misspelling for chuileag, which is simply
the lenited form of cuileag that appears in certain contexts, e.g.,
after various determiners.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 3:01:20 AM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 14/08/2023 4:19 p.m., Ross Clark wrote:
> > On 14/08/2023 12:23 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> >> Hooligan from chiuleag @Scot Gaelic: biting midge
> >> back in 1872 even Queen Victoria was forced to abandon a Highland
> >> picnic after complaining of being 'half-devoured' by the clouds of
> >> midges. Around the time of the Jacobite Rising (1745), the English
> >> commander in chief , Marshall Wade, misheard the Gaelic word for
> >> midge, "Chiuleag", and having experienced their incessant attacks,
> >> coined the word "hooligans".
> >
> > "Misheard" is a strange term to use here.
> > A more serious difficulty with the Gaelic story is that "hooligan"
> > doesn't turn up in English until the 1890s.
> >
> Furtherer... "Teach Yourself Gaelic" (1971) has nothing to say about
> midges, but gives cuileag (feminine noun, plural cuileagan) 'fly'.
> Someone more advanced in Celtic studies can perhaps illuminate the
> connection with chiuleag.
Biting midges are tiny flies, aka noseeums.

On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 3:01:20 AM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 14/08/2023 4:19 p.m., Ross Clark wrote:
> > On 14/08/2023 12:23 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> >> Hooligan from chiuleag @Scot Gaelic: biting midge
> >> back in 1872 even Queen Victoria was forced to abandon a Highland
> >> picnic after complaining of being 'half-devoured' by the clouds of
> >> midges. Around the time of the Jacobite Rising (1745), the English
> >> commander in chief , Marshall Wade, misheard the Gaelic word for
> >> midge, "Chiuleag", and having experienced their incessant attacks,
> >> coined the word "hooligans".
> >
> > "Misheard" is a strange term to use here.
> > A more serious difficulty with the Gaelic story is that "hooligan"
> > doesn't turn up in English until the 1890s.
> >
> Furtherer... "Teach Yourself Gaelic" (1971) has nothing to say about
> midges, but gives cuileag (feminine noun, plural cuileagan) 'fly'.
> Someone more advanced in Celtic studies can perhaps illuminate the
> connection with chiuleag.
The name of some midges is culicoides, which might fit with c(h)uileag (and hooligan).

On 15/08/2023 10:31 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 3:01:20 AM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
>> On 14/08/2023 4:19 p.m., Ross Clark wrote:
>>> On 14/08/2023 12:23 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
>>>> Hooligan from chiuleag @Scot Gaelic: biting midge
>>>> back in 1872 even Queen Victoria was forced to abandon a Highland
>>>> picnic after complaining of being 'half-devoured' by the clouds of
>>>> midges. Around the time of the Jacobite Rising (1745), the English
>>>> commander in chief , Marshall Wade, misheard the Gaelic word for
>>>> midge, "Chiuleag", and having experienced their incessant attacks,
>>>> coined the word "hooligans".
>>>
>>> "Misheard" is a strange term to use here.
>>> A more serious difficulty with the Gaelic story is that "hooligan"
>>> doesn't turn up in English until the 1890s.
>>>
>> Furtherer... "Teach Yourself Gaelic" (1971) has nothing to say about
>> midges, but gives cuileag (feminine noun, plural cuileagan) 'fly'.
>> Someone more advanced in Celtic studies can perhaps illuminate the
>> connection with chiuleag.
> The name of some midges is culicoides, which might fit with c(h)uileag (and hooligan).

Yes, Latin culex 'gnat, midge'. Seems possible.

Again, puzzling over buang/throw up/out, buat/make, buah/fruit and possible cognates-derivatives bangun/stand.up, build.ing, keluar/exit, keluarga/family.

It makes sense that bua shared root with lua.
In some islands, word for cave is gua, on others, bua.
On Flores (hobbits), Liang/cool Bua/cave, hole

Ke.luar (go) to.out(side) ge- => ke (cf grm gehen)?
Di.luar at out(side)
Dalam in(side) ~ endura/ndula interior-under
Men.gelap dark.en
Mongolu @Mbuti: dome hut

*men.gemblua gua bua lua to go up/push out, leave (home, womb, cave), birth, regenerate lineage
So keluarga/kin and bangunan/building share root.

On 2023-08-15, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> wrote:

>> The name of some midges is culicoides, which might fit with c(h)uileag (and hooligan).
>
> Yes, Latin culex 'gnat, midge'. Seems possible.

Indeed, Wiktionary--and de Vaan's Etymological dictionary of Latin--
connects Latin culex with (Old) Irish cuil; Scottish Gaelic cuileag
derives from a diminutive of the Old Irish word.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 7:09:15 AM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 15/08/2023 10:31 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 3:01:20 AM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> >> On 14/08/2023 4:19 p.m., Ross Clark wrote:
> >>> On 14/08/2023 12:23 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> >>>> Hooligan from chiuleag @Scot Gaelic: biting midge
> >>>> back in 1872 even Queen Victoria was forced to abandon a Highland
> >>>> picnic after complaining of being 'half-devoured' by the clouds of
> >>>> midges. Around the time of the Jacobite Rising (1745), the English
> >>>> commander in chief , Marshall Wade, misheard the Gaelic word for
> >>>> midge, "Chiuleag", and having experienced their incessant attacks,
> >>>> coined the word "hooligans".
> >>>
> >>> "Misheard" is a strange term to use here.
> >>> A more serious difficulty with the Gaelic story is that "hooligan"
> >>> doesn't turn up in English until the 1890s.
> >>>
> >> Furtherer... "Teach Yourself Gaelic" (1971) has nothing to say about
> >> midges, but gives cuileag (feminine noun, plural cuileagan) 'fly'.
> >> Someone more advanced in Celtic studies can perhaps illuminate the
> >> connection with chiuleag.
> > The name of some midges is culicoides, which might fit with c(h)uileag (and hooligan).
> Yes, Latin culex 'gnat, midge'. Seems possible.

Entomology etymology
Is culex related to acute? Midges stab with their steely steely knives, at least that's how it feels. (Hotel California)
Today, Culex is a Genus of common mosquitoes, but via Linaeus from Latin Culex gnat, midge.
Acute < acus@Ltn: sharp pointed needle

Bussola nautica @Ital: compass, originally box (containing compass)
Bussolo from Ltn buxida, buxus wooden container from Ltn pyxis box

16 wind rose assoc. with compass may have derived from Etruscan fortune tellers (Etruscan chandelier), Medit wind charts were based on 8 or 12 winds.

Xyuambuatlachyah compass buxida

On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 10:51:08 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> Bussola nautica @Ital: compass, originally box (containing compass)
> Bussolo from Ltn buxida, buxus wooden container from Ltn pyxis box
>
> 16 wind rose assoc. with compass may have derived from Etruscan fortune tellers (Etruscan chandelier), Medit wind charts were based on 8 or 12 winds..
>
> Xyuambuatlachyah compass buxida

In Italian, compass was the chart, not the magnetic mechanism.

compass (n.)
c. 1300, "space, area, extent, circumference," from Old French compas "circle, radius; size, extent; pair of compasses" [referring to the arc drawing tool.](12c.), from compasser "to go around, measure (with a compass); divide equally," from Vulgar Latin *compassare "to pace out," from Latin com "with, together" (see com-) + passus "a step" (from PIE root *pete- "to spread"). [Petal, perhaps in connection to wind rose? mbuatl borne out, spread out? Petalon @Grk: leaf.

Peta @Mly: map perhaps from Sanskrit भूपट (bhūpaṭa, “map”) as भू (bhū, “earth”) +‎ पट (paṭa, “garment”). Similar construction in Latin mappa mundī (“map”), compound of mappa (“napkin, cloth”) + mundus (“world")

The mathematical instrument for describing circles was so called in English from mid-14c. The mariners' directional tool (so called since early 15c.) took the name, perhaps, because it's round and has a point like the mathematical instrument.

The word is in most European languages, with a mathematical sense in Romance, a nautical sense in Germanic, and both in English. Also an adverb in Middle English: to go compass was "go in a circle, go around."

compass (v.)

c. 1300, "to devise, plan;" early 14c. as "to surround, contain, envelop, enclose;" from Anglo-French cumpasser, Old French compasser "to go around, measure (with a compass), divide equally, calculate; plan" (12c.), from Vulgar Latin *compassare "to pace out" (source of Italian compassare, Spanish compasar), from Latin com "with, together" (see com-) + passus "a step" (from PIE root *pete- "to spread"). Related: Compassed; compassing.

Entries linking to compass
com-
word-forming element usually meaning "with, together," from Latin com, archaic form of classical Latin cum "together, together with, in combination," from PIE *kom- "beside, near, by, with" (compare Old English ge-, German ge-). The prefix in Latin sometimes was used as an intensive.

Before vowels and aspirates, it is reduced to co-; before -g-, it is assimilated to cog- or con-; before -l-, assimilated to col-; before -r-, assimilated to cor-; before -c-, -d-, -j-, -n-, -q-, -s-, -t-, and -v-, it is assimilated to con-, which was so frequent that it often was used as the normal form.

*pete-
*petə-, Proto-Indo-European root meaning "to spread."

It forms all or part of: compass; El Paso; expand; expanse; expansion; expansive; fathom; pace (n.); paella; pan (n.); pandiculation; pas; pass; passe; passim; passacaglia; passage; passenger; passport; paten; patent; patina; petal; spandrel; spawn.

It is the hypothetical source of/evidence for its existence is provided by: Greek petannynai "to spread out," petalon "a leaf," patane "plate, dish;" Old Norse faðmr "embrace, bosom," Old English fæðm "embrace, bosom, fathom," Old Saxon fathmos "the outstretched arms."

encompass (v.)
"form a circle about, encircle," 1550s, from en- (1) "make, put in" + compass (n.). Related: Encompassed; encompasses; encompassing.

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 9:50:42 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 10:51:08 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > Bussola nautica @Ital: compass, originally box (containing compass)
> > Bussolo from Ltn buxida, buxus wooden container from Ltn pyxis box
> >
> > 16 wind rose assoc. with compass may have derived from Etruscan fortune tellers (Etruscan chandelier), Medit wind charts were based on 8 or 12 winds.
> >
> > Xyuambuatlachyah compass buxida
> In Italian, compass was the chart, not the magnetic mechanism.
>
> compass (n.)
> c. 1300, "space, area, extent, circumference," from Old French compas "circle, radius; size, extent; pair of compasses" [referring to the arc drawing tool.](12c.), from compasser "to go around, measure (with a compass); divide equally," from Vulgar Latin *compassare "to pace out," from Latin com "with, together" (see com-) + passus "a step" (from PIE root *pete- "to spread"). [Petal, perhaps in connection to wind rose? mbuatl borne out, spread out? Petalon @Grk: leaf.

Portolan, port, puerto, boat, bwato

> Peta @Mly: map perhaps from Sanskrit भूपट (bhūpaṭa, “map”) as भू (bhū, “earth”) +‎ पट (paṭa, “garment”). Similar construction in Latin mappa mundī (“map”), compound of mappa (“napkin, cloth”) + mundus (“world")
>
> The mathematical instrument for describing circles was so called in English from mid-14c. The mariners' directional tool (so called since early 15c.) took the name, perhaps, because it's round and has a point like the mathematical instrument.
>
> The word is in most European languages, with a mathematical sense in Romance, a nautical sense in Germanic, and both in English. Also an adverb in Middle English: to go compass was "go in a circle, go around."
>
> compass (v.)
>
> c. 1300, "to devise, plan;" early 14c. as "to surround, contain, envelop, enclose;" from Anglo-French cumpasser, Old French compasser "to go around, measure (with a compass), divide equally, calculate; plan" (12c.), from Vulgar Latin *compassare "to pace out" (source of Italian compassare, Spanish compasar), from Latin com "with, together" (see com-) + passus "a step" (from PIE root *pete- "to spread"). Related: Compassed; compassing.
>
> Entries linking to compass
> com-
> word-forming element usually meaning "with, together," from Latin com, archaic form of classical Latin cum "together, together with, in combination," from PIE *kom- "beside, near, by, with" (compare Old English ge-, German ge-). The prefix in Latin sometimes was used as an intensive.
>
> Before vowels and aspirates, it is reduced to co-; before -g-, it is assimilated to cog- or con-; before -l-, assimilated to col-; before -r-, assimilated to cor-; before -c-, -d-, -j-, -n-, -q-, -s-, -t-, and -v-, it is assimilated to con-, which was so frequent that it often was used as the normal form.
>
> *pete-
> *petə-, Proto-Indo-European root meaning "to spread."
>
> It forms all or part of: compass; El Paso; expand; expanse; expansion; expansive; fathom; pace (n.); paella; pan (n.); pandiculation; pas; pass; passe; passim; passacaglia; passage; passenger; passport; paten; patent; patina; petal; spandrel; spawn.
>
> It is the hypothetical source of/evidence for its existence is provided by: Greek petannynai "to spread out," petalon "a leaf," patane "plate, dish;" Old Norse faðmr "embrace, bosom," Old English fæðm "embrace, bosom, fathom," Old Saxon fathmos "the outstretched arms."
>
> encompass (v.)
> "form a circle about, encircle," 1550s, from en- (1) "make, put in" + compass (n.). Related: Encompassed; encompasses; encompassing.

Wed, 23 Aug 2023 06:50:40 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
<daud.deden@gmail.com> scribeva:

>The word is in most European languages, with a mathematical sense in
>Romance, a nautical sense in Germanic, and both in English. Also an
>adverb in Middle English: to go compass was "go in a circle, go around."

In Spanish, compaso mean rhythm or beat. El Rey del Compaso, the
Rhythm King, was an Argentian tango hero.

Sorry, it's actually Rey del Compás:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWRd3Onj9YY

--
Ruud Harmsen, https://rudhar.com