On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 6:49:58 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> Oldest structure? Kalambo falls, Zambia: 476ka spearfishing platform? Or Lincoln Logs cabin??
>
> https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2023/09/20/archaeologists-discover-worlds-oldest-wooden-structure/
>
> My response: They were seasonally nomadic, as I've always said. They did not move camp every day or week. Every year they would move back around old sites, this gave flora and fauna there time to reproduce & grow.
>
> Article says 'large logs' but those are small logs from small adult trees, not large logs from giant trees of the forest.
>
> Must have been a seasonal flood that buried it., silt washed down onto it and clogged.
>
> No crocs near that site above the Kalambo Falls, afaik, only below the Falls.
>
> The modern human population with the oldest genome are the 400ka Mbo, now in Nigeria-Cameroon iirc.
> Kala-Mbo?
> Mbo means mother in some African tongues.
> I don't know the etymology of "kalambo".
> My guess:
> kala ~ kara @Turkish: black
> kala ~ gelap @Mly: dark
> kala ~ covered @Egl cf wombelly?
> +
> mbo mother-parent-ancestor
> ebu @Flores, Indon : ancestor
> ebu @Bajau : ancestor
>
> The Amerindians around Seattle WA built platforms to spear migrating salmon.
>
> Terra Amata is another claimed ancient structure, a hut with 2 columns and supporting beam.

Interestingly, at the same time someone was (allegedly) carving a log along the Kalambo river (Zambia), someone else was carving a clamshell along the Trinil river (Java, Indon.). And both fossil artifacts survived intact (w/o the anonymous carvers) in very condition in tropical rainforest conditions to be dis-covered by intentional digs. Remarkable.
I remain a bit skeptical about both finds, but accept their significance in paleo-antheopology & human prehistory.

Zig-zag on ancient shell may rewrite art and human history

On a prehistoric white shell fossil from the island of Java, tiny zig-zag shaped scratches may etch out the beginning of art history, and rewrite our human history. A study published in Nature this week found that the markings on the shell were between 430,000 and 540,000 years old, making it older than any art created by humans or Neanderthals.

“It rewrites human history,” said Stephen Munro, lead author of the study, in an interview with The Guardian

On 24/09/2023 2:13 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 4:12:15 PM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
>> On 24/09/2023 7:51 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
>>> On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-4, Tim Lang wrote:
>>>> On 23.09.2023 05:47, Daud Deden wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 1:23:18 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wed, 20 Sep 2023 07:53:32 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>>>>>> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>>>>>> German: immer (room is zimmer)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> German "immer" means always, and Zimmer has nothing to do with it.
>>>>>> Are you confusing this with the English word "inner", or with the
>>>>>> German word "innen"?
>>>> BTW: inner is German as well; e.g. innerhalb (which in Swiss
>>>> German (a.k.a. Alemanian) is also called innert, roughly meaning
>>>> "during"); Innerei,-en ("innards, viscera"); Inneres.
>>>>
>>>> ("interior; inside; inner")
>>>>
>>>> Example for the usage of German Innen- and Inner- in "interior
>>>> ministry / dept. of domestic affairs": Innenministerium and
>>>> also Ministerium für innere Angelegenheiten; Ministerium des
>>>> Innern; Ministerium für Inneres. And there is a third synonym
>>>> used in certain circumstances: binnen. E.g. Binnenwirtschaft
>>>> "home/domestic economy"; Binnenschifffahrt etc all in the
>>>> sense of "interior/home". In low German binnen un buten means
>>>> in standard German innen & außen/aussen. (Compare Dutch binnen
>>>> & buiten.)
>>>>
>>>> tv section of the channel Radio Bremen
>>>> (the region is part of the area of the low German dialects)
>>>> <https://www.butenunbinnen.de/>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> immer ("always") and Zimmer (room, chamber) aren't akin.
>>>> Immer is assumed to have been from thecombination je + mehr
>>>> (in the forms of the "old high German" era of German).
>>>>
>>>> Zimmer had (in the old high German era) its inception as zimbar, akin
>>>> to English timber (and having this meaning, i.e., timber/lumber).
>>>>
>>>> (Zimmer - by meaning and form - might seem akin to chamber < Fr. chambre
>>>> < Lat. camera "arched roof" < Greek kamara "vault". But it seems that
>>>> there was no kamara <=> zimbar link, although both referred to aspects
>>>> of house constructions or structures.)
>>>>> No, immerse @Egl via LLtn immersioner, to dip into, which would appear
>>>>> to fit with zimmer. >But not in this case. Thanks for checking.
>>>> It can't, since there is no word *immer- here, but the preposition
>>>> in + the verb mergere => immergere, immersus est => ... French/Engl
>>>> immers- (-e; -ion).
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> Zimbar ~ barrel-like? ~ chamber of staves/sticks/saplings
>>> Kamar @Mly: room (via Hindi or Persian?)
>>> Kamara @Grk: vault
>>>
>>> (Pieces fit together to make) a barrel/chamber/ark/basket/tub
>>> Couple, zuber-zimbar, teba-gopher-kohvar-kufa(rigolu)
>>> Xyuambuatl chamber(ed), wamba(ll)/(wom)bel(l/t/le/ly), zimbar
>>>
>>> I'm not entirely rejecting immer & zimmer linkage:
>>>
>>> Immer = always ~ all ways around (360°) a dome hut (inside?)
>>> Umwelt = surrounding environment (outside?)
>>> (Xyuam)buatl birth/vault/bottle
>>>
>>> Innate, inert opposites of ate, ert?
>>>
>>> DD
>>>
>>>
>> Innate < Lat innātus 'inborn' < in- (inside) + nātus 'born' (ultimately
>> from the prolific *gen- root)
>>
>> Inert < Lat iners, inert- 'unskilful, inactive, idle' < in- (not) + art-
>> (ars, art- 'skill, occupation etc.')
>
> Thanks. I didn't know innate linked to natal, nor inert to art.
>
> Seems that in- (inside) is ancient via en(du/do) and ante- {pre-gn-ant before birth in?}
> while in- (not) is more recent derived from anti-, perhaps from a different dialect source.
>

In- (not) is just [n̩] (syllabic n), which becomes Latin in-, Germanic
un-, Greek and Sanskrit a-. It's the minimal form of *ne, from whence
come all those negative n- words in IE languages.

New IE language discovered in Turkey, in cuneiform:

https://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/en/news-and-events/news/detail/news/new-indo-european-language-discovered/

On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:38:59 AM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 24/09/2023 2:13 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 4:12:15 PM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> >> On 24/09/2023 7:51 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-4, Tim Lang wrote:
> >>>> On 23.09.2023 05:47, Daud Deden wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 1:23:18 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Wed, 20 Sep 2023 07:53:32 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> >>>>>> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >>>>>>> German: immer (room is zimmer)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> German "immer" means always, and Zimmer has nothing to do with it.
> >>>>>> Are you confusing this with the English word "inner", or with the
> >>>>>> German word "innen"?
> >>>> BTW: inner is German as well; e.g. innerhalb (which in Swiss
> >>>> German (a.k.a. Alemanian) is also called innert, roughly meaning
> >>>> "during"); Innerei,-en ("innards, viscera"); Inneres.
> >>>>
> >>>> ("interior; inside; inner")
> >>>>
> >>>> Example for the usage of German Innen- and Inner- in "interior
> >>>> ministry / dept. of domestic affairs": Innenministerium and
> >>>> also Ministerium für innere Angelegenheiten; Ministerium des
> >>>> Innern; Ministerium für Inneres. And there is a third synonym
> >>>> used in certain circumstances: binnen. E.g. Binnenwirtschaft
> >>>> "home/domestic economy"; Binnenschifffahrt etc all in the
> >>>> sense of "interior/home". In low German binnen un buten means
> >>>> in standard German innen & außen/aussen. (Compare Dutch binnen
> >>>> & buiten.)
> >>>>
> >>>> tv section of the channel Radio Bremen
> >>>> (the region is part of the area of the low German dialects)
> >>>> <https://www.butenunbinnen.de/>
> >>>>
> >>>> *
> >>>>
> >>>> immer ("always") and Zimmer (room, chamber) aren't akin.
> >>>> Immer is assumed to have been from thecombination je + mehr
> >>>> (in the forms of the "old high German" era of German).
> >>>>
> >>>> Zimmer had (in the old high German era) its inception as zimbar, akin
> >>>> to English timber (and having this meaning, i.e., timber/lumber).
> >>>>
> >>>> (Zimmer - by meaning and form - might seem akin to chamber < Fr. chambre
> >>>> < Lat. camera "arched roof" < Greek kamara "vault". But it seems that
> >>>> there was no kamara <=> zimbar link, although both referred to aspects
> >>>> of house constructions or structures.)
> >>>>> No, immerse @Egl via LLtn immersioner, to dip into, which would appear
> >>>>> to fit with zimmer. >But not in this case. Thanks for checking.
> >>>> It can't, since there is no word *immer- here, but the preposition
> >>>> in + the verb mergere => immergere, immersus est => ... French/Engl
> >>>> immers- (-e; -ion).
> >>>>
> >>>> Tim
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>> Zimbar ~ barrel-like? ~ chamber of staves/sticks/saplings
> >>> Kamar @Mly: room (via Hindi or Persian?)
> >>> Kamara @Grk: vault
> >>>
> >>> (Pieces fit together to make) a barrel/chamber/ark/basket/tub
> >>> Couple, zuber-zimbar, teba-gopher-kohvar-kufa(rigolu)
> >>> Xyuambuatl chamber(ed), wamba(ll)/(wom)bel(l/t/le/ly), zimbar
> >>>
> >>> I'm not entirely rejecting immer & zimmer linkage:
> >>>
> >>> Immer = always ~ all ways around (360°) a dome hut (inside?)
> >>> Umwelt = surrounding environment (outside?)
> >>> (Xyuam)buatl birth/vault/bottle
> >>>
> >>> Innate, inert opposites of ate, ert?
> >>>
> >>> DD
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Innate < Lat innātus 'inborn' < in- (inside) + nātus 'born' (ultimately
> >> from the prolific *gen- root)
> >>
> >> Inert < Lat iners, inert- 'unskilful, inactive, idle' < in- (not) + art-
> >> (ars, art- 'skill, occupation etc.')
> >
> > Thanks. I didn't know innate linked to natal, nor inert to art.
> >
> > Seems that in- (inside) is ancient via en(du/do) and ante- {pre-gn-ant before birth in?}
> > while in- (not) is more recent derived from anti-, perhaps from a different dialect source.
> >
> In- (not) is just [n̩] (syllabic n), which becomes Latin in-, Germanic
> un-, Greek and Sanskrit a-. It's the minimal form of *ne, from whence
> come all those negative n- words in IE languages.

Thanks. Then there's the im- which negates, I guess a variant of in-.
And special cases, such as unmeasurable & immeasurable, probably reflecting recent dialect differentiation & specializations.

In Malay, tidak = no, bukan = not so.
In Mandarin, good, not good, very good = hau, bu hau, hung hau.

On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 3:57:09 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:38:59 AM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> > On 24/09/2023 2:13 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 4:12:15 PM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> > >> On 24/09/2023 7:51 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > >>> On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-4, Tim Lang wrote:
> > >>>> On 23.09.2023 05:47, Daud Deden wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 1:23:18 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Wed, 20 Sep 2023 07:53:32 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> > >>>>>> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> > >>>>>>> German: immer (room is zimmer)
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> German "immer" means always, and Zimmer has nothing to do with it.
> > >>>>>> Are you confusing this with the English word "inner", or with the
> > >>>>>> German word "innen"?
> > >>>> BTW: inner is German as well; e.g. innerhalb (which in Swiss
> > >>>> German (a.k.a. Alemanian) is also called innert, roughly meaning
> > >>>> "during"); Innerei,-en ("innards, viscera"); Inneres.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ("interior; inside; inner")
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Example for the usage of German Innen- and Inner- in "interior
> > >>>> ministry / dept. of domestic affairs": Innenministerium and
> > >>>> also Ministerium für innere Angelegenheiten; Ministerium des
> > >>>> Innern; Ministerium für Inneres. And there is a third synonym
> > >>>> used in certain circumstances: binnen. E.g. Binnenwirtschaft
> > >>>> "home/domestic economy"; Binnenschifffahrt etc all in the
> > >>>> sense of "interior/home". In low German binnen un buten means
> > >>>> in standard German innen & außen/aussen. (Compare Dutch binnen
> > >>>> & buiten.)
> > >>>>
> > >>>> tv section of the channel Radio Bremen
> > >>>> (the region is part of the area of the low German dialects)
> > >>>> <https://www.butenunbinnen.de/>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> *
> > >>>>
> > >>>> immer ("always") and Zimmer (room, chamber) aren't akin.
> > >>>> Immer is assumed to have been from thecombination je + mehr
> > >>>> (in the forms of the "old high German" era of German).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Zimmer had (in the old high German era) its inception as zimbar, akin
> > >>>> to English timber (and having this meaning, i.e., timber/lumber).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> (Zimmer - by meaning and form - might seem akin to chamber < Fr. chambre
> > >>>> < Lat. camera "arched roof" < Greek kamara "vault". But it seems that
> > >>>> there was no kamara <=> zimbar link, although both referred to aspects
> > >>>> of house constructions or structures.)
> > >>>>> No, immerse @Egl via LLtn immersioner, to dip into, which would appear
> > >>>>> to fit with zimmer. >But not in this case. Thanks for checking.
> > >>>> It can't, since there is no word *immer- here, but the preposition
> > >>>> in + the verb mergere => immergere, immersus est => ... French/Engl
> > >>>> immers- (-e; -ion).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Tim
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>> Zimbar ~ barrel-like? ~ chamber of staves/sticks/saplings
> > >>> Kamar @Mly: room (via Hindi or Persian?)
> > >>> Kamara @Grk: vault
> > >>>
> > >>> (Pieces fit together to make) a barrel/chamber/ark/basket/tub
> > >>> Couple, zuber-zimbar, teba-gopher-kohvar-kufa(rigolu)
> > >>> Xyuambuatl chamber(ed), wamba(ll)/(wom)bel(l/t/le/ly), zimbar
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm not entirely rejecting immer & zimmer linkage:
> > >>>
> > >>> Immer = always ~ all ways around (360°) a dome hut (inside?)
> > >>> Umwelt = surrounding environment (outside?)
> > >>> (Xyuam)buatl birth/vault/bottle
> > >>>
> > >>> Innate, inert opposites of ate, ert?
> > >>>
> > >>> DD
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> Innate < Lat innātus 'inborn' < in- (inside) + nātus 'born' (ultimately
> > >> from the prolific *gen- root)
> > >>
> > >> Inert < Lat iners, inert- 'unskilful, inactive, idle' < in- (not) + art-
> > >> (ars, art- 'skill, occupation etc.')
> > >
> > > Thanks. I didn't know innate linked to natal, nor inert to art.
> > >
> > > Seems that in- (inside) is ancient via en(du/do) and ante- {pre-gn-ant before birth in?}
> > > while in- (not) is more recent derived from anti-, perhaps from a different dialect source.
> > >
> > In- (not) is just [n̩] (syllabic n), which becomes Latin in-, Germanic
> > un-, Greek and Sanskrit a-. It's the minimal form of *ne, from whence
> > come all those negative n- words in IE languages.
> Thanks. Then there's the im- which negates, I guess a variant of in-.
> And special cases, such as unmeasurable & immeasurable, probably reflecting recent dialect differentiation & specializations.
>
> In Malay, tidak = no, bukan = not so.
> In Mandarin, good, not good, very good = hau, bu hau, hung hau.

One could attempt a paleo-reconstruction, though sample source size is tiny:

Not, negate (xy)UAMBUA(tl) ~ Vm/bV- > VnV-, im- > in-, n̩, un-, a(m)-, bu, bu(k)a(n), ope(n), oppo(-nent, -site) where po- = put, set, make, bua(-t/-ng/-h) @Mly: make-born/eject/fruit) cf bu(ng)a @Mly: flower. (Bu?a > bunga, bukan, buka (open))
So Vm-/Vne- @IE ~ bu(a)- @Chn, Mly ~ open/oppose (arms/petals out); image (body vs antibody), superimpose, c.opy, even in photo 'negatives'.

What is the root word of opposite?
The word has Latin roots, from op, “in front of,” and ponere, “to put” — think about putting something up against something else. Related words are opponent, "the person you're up against in a game," and oppose, "to disagree." Definitions of opposite. adjective. being directly across from each other; facing.

On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 8:19:28 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 3:57:09 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:38:59 AM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> > > On 24/09/2023 2:13 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 4:12:15 PM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> > > >> On 24/09/2023 7:51 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > > >>> On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-4, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > >>>> On 23.09.2023 05:47, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 1:23:18 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Wed, 20 Sep 2023 07:53:32 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> > > >>>>>> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> > > >>>>>>> German: immer (room is zimmer)
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> German "immer" means always, and Zimmer has nothing to do with it.
> > > >>>>>> Are you confusing this with the English word "inner", or with the
> > > >>>>>> German word "innen"?
> > > >>>> BTW: inner is German as well; e.g. innerhalb (which in Swiss
> > > >>>> German (a.k.a. Alemanian) is also called innert, roughly meaning
> > > >>>> "during"); Innerei,-en ("innards, viscera"); Inneres.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> ("interior; inside; inner")
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Example for the usage of German Innen- and Inner- in "interior
> > > >>>> ministry / dept. of domestic affairs": Innenministerium and
> > > >>>> also Ministerium für innere Angelegenheiten; Ministerium des
> > > >>>> Innern; Ministerium für Inneres. And there is a third synonym
> > > >>>> used in certain circumstances: binnen. E.g. Binnenwirtschaft
> > > >>>> "home/domestic economy"; Binnenschifffahrt etc all in the
> > > >>>> sense of "interior/home". In low German binnen un buten means
> > > >>>> in standard German innen & außen/aussen. (Compare Dutch binnen
> > > >>>> & buiten.)
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> tv section of the channel Radio Bremen
> > > >>>> (the region is part of the area of the low German dialects)
> > > >>>> <https://www.butenunbinnen.de/>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> *
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> immer ("always") and Zimmer (room, chamber) aren't akin.
> > > >>>> Immer is assumed to have been from thecombination je + mehr
> > > >>>> (in the forms of the "old high German" era of German).
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Zimmer had (in the old high German era) its inception as zimbar, akin
> > > >>>> to English timber (and having this meaning, i.e., timber/lumber)..
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> (Zimmer - by meaning and form - might seem akin to chamber < Fr. chambre
> > > >>>> < Lat. camera "arched roof" < Greek kamara "vault". But it seems that
> > > >>>> there was no kamara <=> zimbar link, although both referred to aspects
> > > >>>> of house constructions or structures.)
> > > >>>>> No, immerse @Egl via LLtn immersioner, to dip into, which would appear
> > > >>>>> to fit with zimmer. >But not in this case. Thanks for checking.
> > > >>>> It can't, since there is no word *immer- here, but the preposition
> > > >>>> in + the verb mergere => immergere, immersus est => ... French/Engl
> > > >>>> immers- (-e; -ion).
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Tim
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks.
> > > >>> Zimbar ~ barrel-like? ~ chamber of staves/sticks/saplings
> > > >>> Kamar @Mly: room (via Hindi or Persian?)
> > > >>> Kamara @Grk: vault
> > > >>>
> > > >>> (Pieces fit together to make) a barrel/chamber/ark/basket/tub
> > > >>> Couple, zuber-zimbar, teba-gopher-kohvar-kufa(rigolu)
> > > >>> Xyuambuatl chamber(ed), wamba(ll)/(wom)bel(l/t/le/ly), zimbar
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I'm not entirely rejecting immer & zimmer linkage:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Immer = always ~ all ways around (360°) a dome hut (inside?)
> > > >>> Umwelt = surrounding environment (outside?)
> > > >>> (Xyuam)buatl birth/vault/bottle
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Innate, inert opposites of ate, ert?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> DD
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >> Innate < Lat innātus 'inborn' < in- (inside) + nātus 'born' (ultimately
> > > >> from the prolific *gen- root)
> > > >>
> > > >> Inert < Lat iners, inert- 'unskilful, inactive, idle' < in- (not) + art-
> > > >> (ars, art- 'skill, occupation etc.')
> > > >
> > > > Thanks. I didn't know innate linked to natal, nor inert to art.
> > > >
> > > > Seems that in- (inside) is ancient via en(du/do) and ante- {pre-gn-ant before birth in?}
> > > > while in- (not) is more recent derived from anti-, perhaps from a different dialect source.
> > > >
> > > In- (not) is just [n̩] (syllabic n), which becomes Latin in-, Germanic
> > > un-, Greek and Sanskrit a-. It's the minimal form of *ne, from whence
> > > come all those negative n- words in IE languages.
> > Thanks. Then there's the im- which negates, I guess a variant of in-.
> > And special cases, such as unmeasurable & immeasurable, probably reflecting recent dialect differentiation & specializations.
> >
> > In Malay, tidak = no, bukan = not so.
> > In Mandarin, good, not good, very good = hau, bu hau, hung hau.
> One could attempt a paleo-reconstruction, though sample source size is tiny:
>
> Not, negate (xy)UAMBUA(tl) ~ Vm/bV- > VnV-, im- > in-, n̩, un-, a(m)-, bu, bu(k)a(n), ope(n), oppo(-nent, -site) where po- = put, set, make, bua(-t/-ng/-h) @Mly: make-born/eject/fruit) cf bu(ng)a @Mly: flower. (Bu?a > bunga, bukan, buka (open))
> So Vm-/Vne- @IE ~ bu(a)- @Chn, Mly ~ open/oppose (arms/petals out); image (body vs antibody), superimpose, c.opy, even in photo 'negatives'.
>
> What is the root word of opposite?
> The word has Latin roots, from op, “in front of,” and ponere, “to put” — think about putting something up against something else. Related words are opponent, "the person you're up against in a game," and oppose, "to disagree." Definitions of opposite. adjective. being directly across from each other; facing.

Appear expose oppose apparent/transparency
Parent = one who blooms/flowers-fruits-fertilizes
Ebu/mbo ancestor/mother uambua not-child wamba

On 2023-09-25, Daud Deden <daud.deden@gmail.com> wrote:

> New IE language discovered in Turkey, in cuneiform:
>
> https://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/en/news-and-events/news/detail/news/new-indo-european-language-discovered/

Not very exciting unless you are an expert in Anatolian:

| Professor Elisabeth Rieken (Philipps-Universität Marburg), a specialist
| in ancient Anatolian languages, has confirmed that the idiom belongs to
| the family of Anatolian-Indo-European languages.
|
| According to Rieken, despite its geographic proximity to the area where
| Palaic was spoken, the text seems to share more features with Luwian.
| How closely the language of Kalasma is related to the other Luwian
| dialects of Late Bronze Age Anatolia will be the subject of further
| investigation.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 9:30:07 AM UTC-4, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2023-09-25, Daud Deden <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > New IE language discovered in Turkey, in cuneiform:
> >
> > https://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/en/news-and-events/news/detail/news/new-indo-european-language-discovered/
> Not very exciting unless you are an expert in Anatolian:

That would not be me. My guess: pre-proto-Albanian.

> | Professor Elisabeth Rieken (Philipps-Universität Marburg), a specialist
> | in ancient Anatolian languages, has confirmed that the idiom belongs to
> | the family of Anatolian-Indo-European languages.
> |
> | According to Rieken, despite its geographic proximity to the area where
> | Palaic was spoken, the text seems to share more features with Luwian.
> | How closely the language of Kalasma is related to the other Luwian
> | dialects of Late Bronze Age Anatolia will be the subject of further
> | investigation.
> --
> Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de

On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 9:30:07 AM UTC-4, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2023-09-25, Daud Deden <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:

> > New IE language discovered in Turkey, in cuneiform:
> > https://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/en/news-and-events/news/detail/news/new-indo-european-language-discovered/
>
> Not very exciting unless you are an expert in Anatolian:
>
> | Professor Elisabeth Rieken (Philipps-Universität Marburg), a specialist
> | in ancient Anatolian languages, has confirmed that the idiom belongs to
> | the family of Anatolian-Indo-European languages.
> |
> | According to Rieken, despite its geographic proximity to the area where
> | Palaic was spoken, the text seems to share more features with Luwian.
> | How closely the language of Kalasma is related to the other Luwian
> | dialects of Late Bronze Age Anatolia will be the subject of further
> | investigation.

Palaic is the Anatolian cuneiform language with the smallest corpus.
Luvian is attested in two dialects, one written with cuneiform, one written
with the so-called "Hittite hieroglyphs." The cuneiform varieties of both
come only from Boghazkoy, even though they were spoken elsewhere,
but Hieroglyphic Luvian is found widely (though sparsely) across
southern Anatolia.

Chilblains
"cold-sore," 1540s, from chill (n.) + blain "inflamed swelling or sore on skin."

Fantods
You have got strong symptoms of the fantods; your skin is so tight you can't shut your eyes without opening your mouth." Thus, American author Charles Frederick Briggs provides us with an early recorded use of fantods in 1839.. Mark Twain used the word to refer to uneasiness or restlessness as shown by nervous movements—also known as the fidgets—in Huckleberry Finn: "They was all nice pictures, I reckon, but I didn't somehow seem to take to them, because … they always give me the fantods."
The exact origin of fantod remains a mystery, but it may have arisen from English dialectal fantigue—a word (once used by Charles Dickens) that refers to a state of great tension or excitement and may be a blend of fantastic and fatigue.

Osotua & tzedakah
https://phys.org/news/2023-09-kindness-persisted-competitive-worldcultural-evolution.html

On Yom Kippur, many Jewish people spend much of—if not all—their day at synagogue. We fast and ask for forgiveness for the wrongs we've committed, and consider how we can improve ourselves. A major part of this is recognizing the customs of gift-giving in Judaism, which are given the umbrella term tzedakah.

Tzedakah has several features that help to guide us around generosity. Strangely, however, some of these also accord with expectations from evolutionary theory, which defines altruism as something that is possible only when we don't receive anything back—including adulation—for our charitable acts.

The Maasai people of Kenya practice osotua: relationships between people that operate based on need. When someone forms an osotua relationship (the term translates literally into English as "umbilical cord") with another, they enter into an unwritten contract to help their partner in times of need.

On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 1:57:42 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> Osotua & tzedakah
> https://phys.org/news/2023-09-kindness-persisted-competitive-worldcultural-evolution.html
>
> On Yom Kippur, many Jewish people spend much of—if not all—their day at synagogue. We fast and ask for forgiveness for the wrongs we've committed, and consider how we can improve ourselves. A major part of this is recognizing the customs of gift-giving in Judaism, which are given the umbrella term tzedakah.
>
> Tzedakah has several features that help to guide us around generosity. Strangely, however, some of these also accord with expectations from evolutionary theory, which defines altruism as something that is possible only when we don't receive anything back—including adulation—for our charitable acts.
>
> The Maasai people of Kenya practice osotua: relationships between people that operate based on need. When someone forms an osotua relationship (the term translates literally into English as "umbilical cord") with another, they enter into an unwritten contract to help their partner in times of need..

Osotua @Maasai: umbilical cord ~ osotua (o) xyua (mb) uatla ~ !hxaro ostrich shell exchange?
Umbilical ~ wombel(t/l)e ~ (xy) uambuatla opening, mongolu dome doorway

https://youtu.be/o2u0UvRE1VQ?si=dCkiJyUg4TpzWrIZ

Huhu grubs, NZ Maori delicacy

Fufu Samoan: fart
Mly kentut fart

Winds

Scirocco @Spn? humid winds from eastern seas
Simoom @Arb? desert winds
Levant.or @Spn? winds from mountain gaps

Scirocco is a hot, dust-laden wind that blows on the northern Mediterranean coast, especially in Italy, Malta, and Sicily. It originates in the Libyan deserts.
Sciroccos are hot, humid southeast to southwest winds that originate in Northern Africa. They occur when low pressure systems move across the Mediterranean Sea, pulling warm, dry air from nearby deserts northward. They can reach hurricane speeds in North Africa and Southern Europe, especially during the summer season

The word "simoom" is an Arabic word that means "poison wind". It refers to a strong, hot, dry, dust-laden wind that blows in the Sahara, Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Iraq, Syria, and the deserts of Arabian Peninsula. The wind is generated by the extreme heat of the parched deserts or sandy plains.
The wind can cause heatstroke because it brings more heat to the human body than is removed by the evaporation of perspiration.
The word "simoom" comes from the root s-m-m, which means "to poison"

The levant is an easterly wind that blows in the western Mediterranean Sea and southern France, an example of mountain-gap wind. In Roussillon it is called "llevant" and in Corsica "levante".

The scariest sound on the African savanna is not the lion's roar, but the human voice.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/05/science/humans-lions-fear-sounds.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20231006&instance_id=104556&nl=the-morning&regi_id=105029039&segment_id=146652&te=1&user_id=977f157dc53ce95cb2af5b4886b3e41d

Kraal, boma: corral, stock.ade, pen-fen.ce, thorn acacia ring enclosure surrounding livestock and huts (crown of thorns?) fortified village

Ambushing lions: "The lion can not get into the boma unless he jumps up and comes in from the top. It is the function of the hunter to prevent this strategic manœuver by killing the lion before he gets in. If he does not, he is likely to find himself engaged in a spirited hand-to-hand fight with an unfriendly lion in a space about as big as the upper berth of a sleeping-car." - John T. McCutcheon, cartoonist for the Chicago Tribune, 1910.

In fact, the word boma has much deeper roots in languages spoken in the Africa Great Lakes, whether as a word of Bantu origin or a loan word from Persian. The Oxford English Dictionary ascribes the first use to the adventurer Henry Morton Stanley, in his book Through the Dark Continent (1878): 'From the staked bomas..there rise to my hearing the bleating of young calves.'[3] The term is also used throughout Stanley's earlier book How I found Livingstone(1871) '...we pitched our camp, built a boma of thorny acacia, and other tree branches, by stacking them round our camp...'[4] Krapf's A Dictionary of the Suahili Language (1882) defines boma as 'a palisade or stockade serving as a kind of fortification to towns and villages...may consist of stones or poles, or of an impenetrable thicket of thorns,' though he does not give an origin for the word. Boma also appears in Band's 'Deutsches Kolonial-Lexikon' (1920), which indicates the word was in use in Tanganyika long before it fell under the control of the British. Johnson's Standard Swahili-English Dictionary (1939) suggests boma comes from a Persian word, buum, which he says means 'garrison, place where one can dwell in safety

On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 6:14:42 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> Kraal, boma: corral, stock.ade, pen-fen.ce, thorn acacia ring enclosure surrounding livestock and huts (crown of thorns?) fortified village
>
> Ambushing lions: "The lion can not get into the boma unless he jumps up and comes in from the top. It is the function of the hunter to prevent this strategic manœuver by killing the lion before he gets in. If he does not, he is likely to find himself engaged in a spirited hand-to-hand fight with an unfriendly lion in a space about as big as the upper berth of a sleeping-car." - John T. McCutcheon, cartoonist for the Chicago Tribune, 1910.
>
> In fact, the word boma has much deeper roots in languages spoken in the Africa Great Lakes, whether as a word of Bantu origin or a loan word from Persian. The Oxford English Dictionary ascribes the first use to the adventurer Henry Morton Stanley, in his book Through the Dark Continent (1878): 'From the staked bomas..there rise to my hearing the bleating of young calves.'[3] The term is also used throughout Stanley's earlier book How I found Livingstone(1871) '...we pitched our camp, built a boma of thorny acacia, and other tree branches, by stacking them round our camp...'[4] Krapf's A Dictionary of the Suahili Language (1882) defines boma as 'a palisade or stockade serving as a kind of fortification to towns and villages...may consist of stones or poles, or of an impenetrable thicket of thorns,' though he does not give an origin for the word. Boma also appears in Band's 'Deutsches Kolonial-Lexikon' (1920), which indicates the word was in use in Tanganyika long before it fell under the control of the British. Johnson's Standard Swahili-English Dictionary (1939) suggests boma comes from a Persian word, buum, which he says means 'garrison, place where one can dwell in safety'.

Boma can refer to an impenetrable thicket.
Njama @ Mbuti: impenetrable thicket

On 8/10/2023 11:14 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> Kraal, boma: corral, stock.ade, pen-fen.ce, thorn acacia ring enclosure surrounding livestock and huts (crown of thorns?) fortified village
>
> Ambushing lions: "The lion can not get into the boma unless he jumps up and comes in from the top. It is the function of the hunter to prevent this strategic manœuver by killing the lion before he gets in. If he does not, he is likely to find himself engaged in a spirited hand-to-hand fight with an unfriendly lion in a space about as big as the upper berth of a sleeping-car." - John T. McCutcheon, cartoonist for the Chicago Tribune, 1910.
>
> In fact, the word boma has much deeper roots in languages spoken in the Africa Great Lakes, whether as a word of Bantu origin or a loan word from Persian. The Oxford English Dictionary ascribes the first use to the adventurer Henry Morton Stanley, in his book Through the Dark Continent (1878): 'From the staked bomas..there rise to my hearing the bleating of young calves.'[3] The term is also used throughout Stanley's earlier book How I found Livingstone(1871) '...we pitched our camp, built a boma of thorny acacia, and other tree branches, by stacking them round our camp...'[4] Krapf's A Dictionary of the Suahili Language (1882) defines boma as 'a palisade or stockade serving as a kind of fortification to towns and villages...may consist of stones or poles, or of an impenetrable thicket of thorns,' though he does not give an origin for the word. Boma also appears in Band's 'Deutsches Kolonial-Lexikon' (1920), which indicates the word was in use in Tanganyika long before it fell under the control of the British. Johnson's Standard Swahili-English Dictionary (1939) suggests boma comes from a Persian word, buum, which he says means 'garrison, place where one can dwell in safety
>
I admit my eyebrows were raised at the suggestion of Persian loanwords
in Swahili, perhaps only because Arabic is always identified as the main
source; and because I don't think of Persians as great sea traders the
way the Arabs have been. However, OED seems to take the Persian origin
of "boma" at least as a serious possibility, so...
I don't have any serious sources on this question, but here's a list of
what various people have suggested as Persian > Swahili loans:
shali shawl
tamasha show, pageant
cherehani sewing machine
chai tea
cherehe grindstone
maige young locust
staha respect (n)
wazi open, clear
bima insurance
gari wheeled vehicle
achari (achali?) pickle
serikali government
diwani councillor

Knowing little about any of these languages, I can't take any of these
further, except to say that some of them could certainly have come via
Arabic, even if Persian is the ultimate source.

On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 6:36:06 AM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 8/10/2023 11:14 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > Kraal, boma: corral, stock.ade, pen-fen.ce, thorn acacia ring enclosure surrounding livestock and huts (crown of thorns?) fortified village
> >
> > Ambushing lions: "The lion can not get into the boma unless he jumps up and comes in from the top. It is the function of the hunter to prevent this strategic manœuver by killing the lion before he gets in. If he does not, he is likely to find himself engaged in a spirited hand-to-hand fight with an unfriendly lion in a space about as big as the upper berth of a sleeping-car." - John T. McCutcheon, cartoonist for the Chicago Tribune, 1910..
> >
> > In fact, the word boma has much deeper roots in languages spoken in the Africa Great Lakes, whether as a word of Bantu origin or a loan word from Persian. The Oxford English Dictionary ascribes the first use to the adventurer Henry Morton Stanley, in his book Through the Dark Continent (1878): 'From the staked bomas..there rise to my hearing the bleating of young calves.'[3] The term is also used throughout Stanley's earlier book How I found Livingstone(1871) '...we pitched our camp, built a boma of thorny acacia, and other tree branches, by stacking them round our camp...'[4] Krapf's A Dictionary of the Suahili Language (1882) defines boma as 'a palisade or stockade serving as a kind of fortification to towns and villages...may consist of stones or poles, or of an impenetrable thicket of thorns,' though he does not give an origin for the word. Boma also appears in Band's 'Deutsches Kolonial-Lexikon' (1920), which indicates the word was in use in Tanganyika long before it fell under the control of the British. Johnson's Standard Swahili-English Dictionary (1939) suggests boma comes from a Persian word, buum, which he says means 'garrison, place where one can dwell in safety
> >
> I admit my eyebrows were raised at the suggestion of Persian loanwords
> in Swahili, perhaps only because Arabic is always identified as the main
> source; and because I don't think of Persians as great sea traders the
> way the Arabs have been. However, OED seems to take the Persian origin
> of "boma" at least as a serious possibility, so...
> I don't have any serious sources on this question, but here's a list of
> what various people have suggested as Persian > Swahili loans:
>
> shali shawl
> tamasha show, pageant
> cherehani sewing machine
> chai tea
> cherehe grindstone
> maige young locust
> staha respect (n)
> wazi open, clear
> bima insurance
> gari wheeled vehicle
> achari (achali?) pickle
> serikali government
> diwani councillor
>
>
> Knowing little about any of these languages, I can't take any of these
> further, except to say that some of them could certainly have come via
> Arabic, even if Persian is the ultimate source.

Thanks. Some of them appear to be technologicaI/social/trade upgrades perhaps from the Sassanian empire.

Bima insurance sounds like it may be linked to boma protective palisade of thorns enclosing younguns.

I noted wazi open, clear; (possibly from xyuambuatlay); wondered if it might relate to US slang 'up the wazoo', but sources say wazoo is from 1961 Berkeley. Strangely, they don't link it to 'up the ass' which is most likely to me, but instead claim it may have derived from razoo raspberry(?).

Earliest attestation is from 1961, Berkeley ('“up yer ol' wazoo”). Merriam-Webster doesn't know. The Oxford ED also doesn't know, but includes a third-party suggestion that it comes from Louisiana Creole 'razoo' meaning 'raspberry', or possibly the French 'oiseau'.

I am in the process of making a mobile app via appinventor.mit.edu, a translator app, which translates an English word into Spanish, German, Malay, Malagasy. Eg "get" correctly translates. I will add more languages(dialects), it is just a sample, to test. I'll call it Paleo-translator. At the beginning, it will be rife with errors, but with improvements, it may become useful, an attempt to reconstruct a much earlier common human language, perhaps close to the human language spoken 100ka.
I want to get modern comparative words from around the world. I hope to add word lists of ancient tongues, both attested and reconstructed, eg Latin, Ancient Egyptian, IE, ancient Chinese, pre-hispanic aztec Nahuatl, proto-Austronesian, etc. specifically +/- 25 basal terms such as hut, inside/outside, hot/cold, birth etc. avoiding modern tech & agricultural terms. For non-roman scripts, eg. Chinese, Hebrew, I'll include text-to-speech vocalizations where available.

[Google Translate: English "go" > German "go", sounds incorrect to me, should be "geht"?]

Picturing original human architecture

From primate & rodent dwellings of interlaid twigs & foliage on tree forks, underground burrows with vegetation and fur, tree hollows, great apes construct interlaced branch arboreal bowl nests to sleep in with their infants. About 5ma, genus Homo genetically split from arboreal ape kin, and at some point in time began to sleep on the ground. Parsimoniously, they continued to fashion their terrestrial nests using the same method, but somehow inverted them into dome shells. Arboreal apes tend to build fresh bowl nests every night. At some point, Homo began carrying their dome materials, either assembled or disassembled.

Imagine: a band of hunt&gather archaic humans, sleeping endomed around a climbable escape tree, in a ring of domes. Each adult sleeps independently with a spear/digging stick and sharp flint handaxe, each parent sleeps with their progeny, mother with infant, father with next older weaned child, older siblings share domes with pals.

Insight: dome is too large & bulky to carry far. The uppermost 1/3 is a woven leaf-shingled umbo (later hide cover, still later metal), a buckler, easily carried by anyone. The bottom 2/3 is disassembled during transit into a set of 5 to 10 straight narrow wicker poles 1m long, pointed at one end. These are pre-arrows/atlatl darts/throwing spears. When installed on the umbo(umbrella/parasol/kUPHArigolu) into peripheral orthogonal sockets (zocatl), they form the supporting frame of the dome, which is then leaf-shingled/thatched for all around shelter. Two small holes are dug under the frame to allow airflow, urine drainage and some lemongrass (mosquito repellant) crumpled into balls in the holes prevent vermin entry, and provide handles/zuber to lift dome for egress.

Skirt/kilt/shelter/shield refers to the arrows mounted on the umbo, and the shingle/shake covering.

On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 9:00:36 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> Picturing original human architecture
>
> From primate & rodent dwellings of interlaid twigs & foliage on tree forks, underground burrows with vegetation and fur, tree hollows, great apes construct interlaced branch arboreal bowl nests to sleep in with their infants. About 5ma, genus Homo genetically split from arboreal ape kin, and at some point in time began to sleep on the ground. Parsimoniously, they continued to fashion their terrestrial nests using the same method, but somehow inverted them into dome shells. Arboreal apes tend to build fresh bowl nests every night. At some point, Homo began carrying their dome materials, either assembled or disassembled.
>
> Imagine: a band of hunt&gather archaic humans, sleeping endomed around a climbable escape tree, in a ring of domes. Each adult sleeps independently with a spear/digging stick and sharp flint handaxe, each parent sleeps with their progeny, mother with infant, father with next older weaned child, older siblings share domes with pals.
>
> Insight: dome is too large & bulky to carry far. The uppermost 1/3 is a woven leaf-shingled umbo (later hide cover, still later metal), a buckler, easily carried by anyone. The bottom 2/3 is disassembled during transit into a set of 5 to 10 straight narrow wicker poles 1m long, pointed at one end. These are pre-arrows/atlatl darts/throwing spears. When installed on the umbo(umbrella/parasol/kUPHArigolu) into peripheral orthogonal sockets (zocatl), they form the supporting frame of the dome, which is then leaf-shingled/thatched for all around shelter. Two small holes are dug under the frame to allow airflow, urine drainage and some lemongrass (mosquito repellant) crumpled into balls in the holes prevent vermin entry, and provide handles/zuber to lift dome for egress.
>
> Skirt/kilt/shelter/shield refers to the arrows mounted on the umbo, and the shingle/shake covering.

What were these spokes/spears that radiated out from the umbo called?
XYUa(mb)UATL ~ Tlatl, (sun)ray, radius, rod, array, row, arrow, dart/route/road, shuttle/siotl/shoot/chute/root/ruud?, wood, tool?, tendril?
Tla @Azt: flame
Think of a bonfire with logs in a star pattern * and heating radiating outward.
Umbrella = umbo + ray/rete ☂️

What is the root of rel- in relative? Probably derived from same.

Note: the Mbuti dome isn't portable, doesn't have a separate umbo. But, the poles are pointed at the bottom to pierce the posthole, and at the top an opposing pair of poles are twisted together to hold. This twist is, like the fletching of an arrow, an aerodynamic advantage when thrown at prey, it balances the flight. As a kid, I hunted small game with a gun. My friend used a bow. Shooting birds in the forest, he used special arrows that flew fast but dropped quick (to avoid losing them), they had a stun tip (not sharp), the fletching had a sharp spiral twist, this slowed the flight when it began spinning, where a normal arrow has only a gradual twist allowing a long straight flight (but likely to get lost in heavy woods).
So the Mbuti poles reflect past use of dual usage, as shelter frames and as throwing projectiles. They switched from hard shields to soft nets for hunting. Net = red @Spn.

On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 6:36:06 AM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 8/10/2023 11:14 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:

> > Kraal, boma: corral, stock.ade, pen-fen.ce, thorn acacia ring enclosure surrounding livestock and huts (crown of thorns?) fortified village
> > Ambushing lions: "The lion can not get into the boma unless he jumps up and comes in from the top. It is the function of the hunter to prevent this strategic manœuver by killing the lion before he gets in. If he does not, he is likely to find himself engaged in a spirited hand-to-hand fight with an unfriendly lion in a space about as big as the upper berth of a sleeping-car." - John T. McCutcheon, cartoonist for the Chicago Tribune, 1910..
> > In fact, the word boma has much deeper roots in languages spoken in the Africa Great Lakes, whether as a word of Bantu origin or a loan word from Persian. The Oxford English Dictionary ascribes the first use to the adventurer Henry Morton Stanley, in his book Through the Dark Continent (1878): 'From the staked bomas..there rise to my hearing the bleating of young calves.'[3] The term is also used throughout Stanley's earlier book How I found Livingstone(1871) '...we pitched our camp, built a boma of thorny acacia, and other tree branches, by stacking them round our camp...'[4] Krapf's A Dictionary of the Suahili Language (1882) defines boma as 'a palisade or stockade serving as a kind of fortification to towns and villages...may consist of stones or poles, or of an impenetrable thicket of thorns,' though he does not give an origin for the word. Boma also appears in Band's 'Deutsches Kolonial-Lexikon' (1920), which indicates the word was in use in Tanganyika long before it fell under the control of the British. Johnson's Standard Swahili-English Dictionary (1939) suggests boma comes from a Persian word, buum, which he says means 'garrison, place where one can dwell in safety
>
> I admit my eyebrows were raised at the suggestion of Persian loanwords
> in Swahili, perhaps only because Arabic is always identified as the main
> source; and because I don't think of Persians as great sea traders the
> way the Arabs have been. However, OED seems to take the Persian origin
> of "boma" at least as a serious possibility, so...
> I don't have any serious sources on this question, but here's a list of
> what various people have suggested as Persian > Swahili loans:

Must they be direct, or via Arabic? What does your source of this list say?

> shali shawl
> tamasha show, pageant
> cherehani sewing machine
> chai tea
> cherehe grindstone
> maige young locust
> staha respect (n)
> wazi open, clear
> bima insurance
> gari wheeled vehicle
> achari (achali?) pickle
> serikali government
> diwani councillor

Some of these are modern. Chai, at least, is a Weltwort.

> Knowing little about any of these languages, I can't take any of these
> further, except to say that some of them could certainly have come via
> Arabic, even if Persian is the ultimate source.

On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 10:04:32 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 9:00:36 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > Picturing original human architecture
> >
> > From primate & rodent dwellings of interlaid twigs & foliage on tree forks, underground burrows with vegetation and fur, tree hollows, great apes construct interlaced branch arboreal bowl nests to sleep in with their infants. About 5ma, genus Homo genetically split from arboreal ape kin, and at some point in time began to sleep on the ground. Parsimoniously, they continued to fashion their terrestrial nests using the same method, but somehow inverted them into dome shells. Arboreal apes tend to build fresh bowl nests every night. At some point, Homo began carrying their dome materials, either assembled or disassembled.
> >
> > Imagine: a band of hunt&gather archaic humans, sleeping endomed around a climbable escape tree, in a ring of domes. Each adult sleeps independently with a spear/digging stick and sharp flint handaxe, each parent sleeps with their progeny, mother with infant, father with next older weaned child, older siblings share domes with pals.
> >
> > Insight: dome is too large & bulky to carry far. The uppermost 1/3 is a woven leaf-shingled umbo (later hide cover, still later metal), a buckler, easily carried by anyone. The bottom 2/3 is disassembled during transit into a set of 5 to 10 straight narrow wicker poles 1m long, pointed at one end. These are pre-arrows/atlatl darts/throwing spears. When installed on the umbo(umbrella/parasol/kUPHArigolu) into peripheral orthogonal sockets (zocatl), they form the supporting frame of the dome, which is then leaf-shingled/thatched for all around shelter. Two small holes are dug under the frame to allow airflow, urine drainage and some lemongrass (mosquito repellant) crumpled into balls in the holes prevent vermin entry, and provide handles/zuber to lift dome for egress.
> >
> > Skirt/kilt/shelter/shield refers to the arrows mounted on the umbo, and the shingle/shake covering.
> What were these spokes/spears that radiated out from the umbo called?
> XYUa(mb)UATL ~ Tlatl, (sun)ray, radius, rod, array, row, arrow, dart/route/road, shuttle/siotl/shoot/chute/root/ruud?, wood, tool?, tendril?
> Tla @Azt: flame
> Think of a bonfire with logs in a star pattern * and heating radiating outward.
> Umbrella = umbo + ray/rete ☂️
>
> What is the root of rel- in relative? Probably derived from same.
>
> Note: the Mbuti dome isn't portable, doesn't have a separate umbo. But, the poles are pointed at the bottom to pierce the posthole, and at the top an opposing pair of poles are twisted together to hold. This twist is, like the fletching of an arrow, an aerodynamic advantage when thrown at prey, it balances the flight. As a kid, I hunted small game with a gun. My friend used a bow. Shooting birds in the forest, he used special arrows that flew fast but dropped quick (to avoid losing them), they had a stun tip (not sharp), the fletching had a sharp spiral twist, this slowed the flight when it began spinning, where a normal arrow has only a gradual twist allowing a long straight flight (but likely to get lost in heavy woods).
> So the Mbuti poles reflect past use of dual usage, as shelter frames and as throwing projectiles. They switched from hard shields to soft nets for hunting. Net = red @Spn.

When the Mbuti complete their domes, they add a small portico to keep sun/rain out of the doorway, the throw some boughs on the top center to hold the roof tight, in the manner as wrapping a ribbon (rib, bone) around a giftbox (box) and tying a bow, secure but easily untied. Bough, bow, bone, boat (bowl), box ~ mbuatl, xy(uam)buatl ~ spoke

The Turko-Mongol yurt has a central roof ring hub that tensions the build frame and interlaced lath for walls.

On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 11:52:29 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 10:04:32 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 9:00:36 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > Picturing original human architecture
> > >
> > > From primate & rodent dwellings of interlaid twigs & foliage on tree forks, underground burrows with vegetation and fur, tree hollows, great apes construct interlaced branch arboreal bowl nests to sleep in with their infants. About 5ma, genus Homo genetically split from arboreal ape kin, and at some point in time began to sleep on the ground. Parsimoniously, they continued to fashion their terrestrial nests using the same method, but somehow inverted them into dome shells. Arboreal apes tend to build fresh bowl nests every night. At some point, Homo began carrying their dome materials, either assembled or disassembled.
> > >
> > > Imagine: a band of hunt&gather archaic humans, sleeping endomed around a climbable escape tree, in a ring of domes. Each adult sleeps independently with a spear/digging stick and sharp flint handaxe, each parent sleeps with their progeny, mother with infant, father with next older weaned child, older siblings share domes with pals.
> > >
> > > Insight: dome is too large & bulky to carry far. The uppermost 1/3 is a woven leaf-shingled umbo (later hide cover, still later metal), a buckler, easily carried by anyone. The bottom 2/3 is disassembled during transit into a set of 5 to 10 straight narrow wicker poles 1m long, pointed at one end. These are pre-arrows/atlatl darts/throwing spears. When installed on the umbo(umbrella/parasol/kUPHArigolu) into peripheral orthogonal sockets (zocatl), they form the supporting frame of the dome, which is then leaf-shingled/thatched for all around shelter. Two small holes are dug under the frame to allow airflow, urine drainage and some lemongrass (mosquito repellant) crumpled into balls in the holes prevent vermin entry, and provide handles/zuber to lift dome for egress.
> > >
> > > Skirt/kilt/shelter/shield refers to the arrows mounted on the umbo, and the shingle/shake covering.
> > What were these spokes/spears that radiated out from the umbo called?
> > XYUa(mb)UATL ~ atlatl, (sun)ray, radius, rod, array, row, arrow, dart/route/road, shuttle/xiotl/shoot/chute/root/ruud?, wood, tool?, tendril?
> > Tla @Azt: flame
> > Think of a bonfire with logs in a star pattern * and heating radiating outward.
> > Umbrella = umbo + ray/rete ☂️
> >
> > What is the root of rel- in relative? Probably derived from same.
> >
> > Note: the Mbuti dome isn't portable, doesn't have a separate umbo. But, the poles are pointed at the bottom to pierce the posthole, and at the top an opposing pair of poles are twisted together to hold. This twist is, like the fletching of an arrow, an aerodynamic advantage when thrown at prey, it balances the flight. As a kid, I hunted small game with a gun. My friend used a bow. Shooting birds in the forest, he used special arrows that flew fast but dropped quick (to avoid losing them), they had a stun tip (not sharp), the fletching had a sharp spiral twist, this slowed the flight when it began spinning, where a normal arrow has only a gradual twist allowing a long straight flight (but likely to get lost in heavy woods).
> > So the Mbuti poles reflect past use of dual usage, as shelter frames and as throwing projectiles. They switched from hard shields to soft nets for hunting. Net = red @Spn.
> When the Mbuti complete their domes, they add a small portico to keep sun/rain out of the doorway, the throw some boughs on the top center to hold the roof tight, in the manner as wrapping a ribbon (rib, bone) around a giftbox (box) and tying a bow, secure but easily untied. Bough, bow, bone, boat (bowl), box ~ mbuatl, xy(uam)buatl ~ spoke
>
> The Turko-Mongol yurt has a central roof ring hub that tensions the build frame and interlaced lath for walls.

Ir.radiate go.rad/ray
Radial and axial diverged later.
Xiotl @Azt: shuttle, shoot, shed rain, shade sun
Chinese umbrella, Chinese straw hat
Rumbo @Spn: route di.rect.ion
Payung @Mly: umbrella, parasol ~ umbhua.tlachyah?