*It's a _completely_ different update model than the monolithic iOS model!*

Nobody on Android wants the monolithic horridly primitive iOS update model.
No other operating system uses that primitive iOS monolithic update model.
No Android user pines for that model (which is the same as Windows S mode).

Let's hold Steve to his word on updating his document when obvious errors
and omissions are pointed out to everyone (which are irrefutable facts).
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE

Item #3 is so wrong it's shockingly ignorant advice which comes straight out
of Tim Cook's Apple web site (which has _never_ been known for accuracy).

3. Longer OS Updates. Longer support of operating system upgrades
for older devices. On flagship Android devices you'll probably
get two years of Android operating system upgrades, after that
you'll only get security upgrades. With the iPhone you're
likely to get five years of operating system upgrades.

That's what you will read on Tim Cook's Apple web site.
But the facts are otherwise.

The simplest way to state the facts is that more than half (probably 80%) of
Android is updated asynchronously over Google Play (even Qualcomm drivers!).

This means that most of Android is essentially updated _forever_ as there is
no EOL date for Google Play apps (and _all_ core components have their
source code _donated_ to the Android Open Source Project (AOSP) community!

*It's a _completely_ different update model than the monolithic iOS model!*

The iOS version number (as if that matters) is often updated because iOS is
a primitive monolithic system which requires the _entire_ operating system
to be incrementally updated (based on the device) whenever any portion of
that operating system has critical fatal flaws (which is rather frequent).

That means core Apple iOS components (such as WebKit).
That means key Apple required applications (such as Safari).
And that means hardware drivers (such as a modem driver).

With Android (and with all other modern operating systems), it's not
monolithic but broken into very many parts, so Android updates occur
continuously _independently_ of the OEM and carriers (over Google Play).

That means core Android components (such as com.google.android.ipsec).
That means key Google required applications (such as Chrome).
And that means hardware drivers (such as a Qualcomm modem driver).

All three of those types of Android updates are updated asynchronously
completely outside the Android version number (as if that matters).

1. Core Android components are updated _forever_ (and open sourced!)
2. Key applications have no EOL date (e.g., Chrome, YouTube, Maps, etc.)
3. Even Qualcomm hardware drivers are updated over Google Play nowadays!

In addition, _every_ core component's source code is _always_ donated to the
Open Source Community (for the AOSP) which is maintained separately.

None of these updates to the OS are even possible with iOS.
The iOS update model is a primitive monolithic model peculiar to iOS.

With iOS, it's all or nothing - and when it's nothing - you're dead.
With Android, the updates are asynchronous, and essentially forever.
(With "forever" being defined as it has no EOL & src code is donated.)

References:

Project Mainline
https://www.androidauthority.com/project-mainline-art-android-12-1202045/

Project Treble
https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2020/12/treble-plus-one-equals-four.html

*Key Android apps are _forever_ updated over Google Play:*
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.youtube
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.maps
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.maps
etc.

*Hardware drivers are _forever_ updated over Google Play:*
https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2021/05/20/announced-google-io-2021-regular-google-nnapi-updates-qualcomm-snapdragon-mobile
--
Nobody on Android wants the monolithic primitive iOS update model.
No other operating system uses the iOS primitive monolithic update model.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 06:22:44 +0200, paul wrote:
> 3. Longer OS Updates. Longer support of operating system upgrades
> for older devices. On flagship Android devices you'll probably
> get two years of Android operating system upgrades, after that
> you'll only get security upgrades. With the iPhone you're
> likely to get five years of operating system upgrades.

I wouldn't put the problems with the iOS update model so harshly.
But I would say that it's four years now for Samsung security updates.
Not two years.

Not many people on Android would want Apple's update model.
They like that Android is mostly updated by them whenever they want.
The absolute version of Android doesn't matter to most people.
All they want are the monthly security updates.

That description of flagship security updates above is outdated though.
His information is so old as to be misleading as it's at least 4 years.
https://9to5google.com/2021/02/22/comment-four-years-android-updates-samsung-google-pixel

In article <sai4f4$e91$1@dont-email.me>, knuttle
<keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> > 3. Longer OS Updates. Longer support of operating system upgrades
> > for older devices. On flagship Android devices you'll probably
> > get two years of Android operating system upgrades, after that
> > you'll only get security upgrades. With the iPhone you're
> > likely to get five years of operating system upgrades.
>
> I wouldn't put the problems with the iOS update model so harshly.
> But I would say that it's four years now for Samsung security updates.
> Not two years.

samsung stated 4 years of security updates for some models, not all of
them. system updates are typically 2-3 years.

meanwhile, apple is releasing security updates for 8 year old phones
and system updates for 6 year old phones. nothing on android comes
anywhere close to that.

> Not many people on Android would want Apple's update model.

yes they would. they're not thrilled that a 2-3 year old phone stops
getting updates.

> They like that Android is mostly updated by them whenever they want.

ios can be configured to update manually if that's what the user
prefers, or automatically.

> The absolute version of Android doesn't matter to most people.
> All they want are the monthly security updates.

same for ios.

On 6/18/2021 5:44 AM, knuttle wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 06:22:44 +0200, paul wrote:
>>    3. Longer OS Updates. Longer support of operating system upgrades
>>       for older devices. On flagship Android devices you'll probably
>>       get two years of Android operating system upgrades, after that
>>       you'll only get security upgrades. With the iPhone you're
>> likely to get five years of operating system upgrades.
>
> I wouldn't put the problems with the iOS update model so harshly.
> But I would say that it's four years now for Samsung security updates.
> Not two years.
>
> Not many people on Android would want Apple's update model.
> They like that Android is mostly updated by them whenever they want.
> The absolute version of Android doesn't matter to most people.
> All they want are the monthly security updates.

Android's absolute version does matter to some people because new
versions gain a lot of new features. The security updates don't get
those new features.

> That description of flagship security updates above is outdated though.
> His information is so old as to be misleading as it's at least 4 years.
> https://9to5google.com/2021/02/22/comment-four-years-android-updates-samsung-google-pixel

It's also important to distinguish a) between flagships and non-flagship
devices for Android since non-flagships will often get zero OS updates,
and b) premium brands like Samsung and Pixel and lower-end brands.

I still get OS upgrades on my 2015 iPhone 6s Plus, though iOS 15 is
going to probably be the last OS upgrade. The 2014 iPhone 6 no longer
gets OS upgrades. I would not have purchased my iWatch 6 if my 6s Plus
hadn't supported iOS 13 since the latest WatchOS requires iOS 13 or higher.

In my extended family we have a lot of iPhone users expecting to upgrade
to the iPhone 13 as long as it has most of the features that are
expected to be added: 120 Hz LTPO screen, 3D FaceID, better camera with
longer optical zoom (currently only on the iPhone 12 Pro), and smaller
notch. I'm not alone obviously, read
<https://www.tomsguide.com/news/iphone-13-rumors-these-are-the-upgrades-id-pay-for>.
My son, an Apple aficionado came by the other day and I asked him when
he's upgrading his iPhone X, and he said "when TouchID is on a new
phone, FaceID is pain," (though a lot of that pain is because of the
pandemic and face masks).

Finally, I make it pretty clear that none of the features, in either
list, are things that _every_ user of the other system wishes they had.
But it's safe to say that nearly all users of the other system wish that
they had some of those features.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18 iOS Features Some of Which that [many] Android Users Wish they Had
63 Android Features Some of Which that [many] iOS Users Wish they Had

<https://tinyurl.com/fzje7h9e> or
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 2021-06-17 9:22 p.m., paul wrote:
> *It's a _completely_ different update model than the monolithic iOS model!*
>
> Nobody on Android wants the monolithic horridly primitive iOS update model.
> No other operating system uses that primitive iOS monolithic update model.
> No Android user pines for that model (which is the same as Windows S mode).

I'm sorry, but to be clear:

Was that paragraph "*FACT*" or opinion?

John Doe wrote on 18.06.2021 07:05
> Why is this posted outside of the thread?

To ensure Steve can't deny that we suggested the corrections.

Steve has been told many times nobody on Android pines for the primitive
monolithic iOS update model (which is no different than Windows S mode -
which nobody on Windows pines for either - which tells us a lot about iOS).

He's been told many times that Android is updated _differently_ than iOS
(Android updates are asynchronous like all modern operating systems are).

He also has been told many times that Android flagships update twice as long
as he claims in his article (which he claism he's been updating).

If anyone finds _any_ of my facts to be wrong - they should say so here.
(But they won't because they can't because the facts are 100% correct.)

It's Steve's list that is wrong - and this is to ask Steve to fix it.
I don't expect Steve to be realistic (even as nobody wants Android S mode).

But he should update the security updates because it's not two years
for flagship phones - it's four years (and for most things, it's forever).
--
Nobody on Android wants the outdated primitive monolithic Apple methods
(it's _exactly_ the same as Windows S mode - which nobody wants either).

sms wrote on 18.06.2021 16:22
> Android's absolute version does matter to some people because new
> versions gain a lot of new features. The security updates don't get
> those new features.

The version number is nearly meaningless Steve.
Just as it is with all mature consumer based operating systems, Steve.

I've had Android 2.x, 4.x, 7.x, 9.x, 10.x, & 11.x and it's all about the
same just as I've had iOS versions from somewhere around iOS 7.x to 13.x
currently (I don't update the monolithic Apple "iOS S mode" unless I am
forced to) and they're all essentially the same functionality.

Same with Ubuntu.
Same with Windows.

It's all essentially the same functionality in every release.

Especially with Android (& Windows) where the market provides the
functionality (such as mic/camera use indicators) long before it's in the
operating system.

>> That description of flagship security updates above is outdated though.
>> His information is so old as to be misleading as it's at least 4 years.
>> https://9to5google.com/2021/02/22/comment-four-years-android-updates-samsung-google-pixel
>
> It's also important to distinguish a) between flagships and non-flagship
> devices for Android since non-flagships will often get zero OS updates,
> and b) premium brands like Samsung and Pixel and lower-end brands.

My Motorola has been updating me almost monthly for years.
We've been documenting that for those years so again, what you say is wrong.

What you claim is _exactly_ what you read on Tim Cook's Apple web site.
You need to read something else other than Apple advertisements, Steve.
> I still get OS upgrades on my 2015 iPhone 6s Plus, though iOS 15 is
> going to probably be the last OS upgrade. The 2014 iPhone 6 no longer
> gets OS upgrades. I would not have purchased my iWatch 6 if my 6s Plus
> hadn't supported iOS 13 since the latest WatchOS requires iOS 13 or higher.

What part of most of Android updates _forever_ don't you understand yet?
You can't compare Apple's "iOS S mode" to Android's decentralized mode.

You should be comparing iOS update mechanisms to Windows S mode instead.

> Finally, I make it pretty clear that none of the features, in either
> list, are things that _every_ user of the other system wishes they had.

Nobody wants Windows S mode Steve - which is what iOS actually is.
On Android, people update asynchronously (outside the carrier or OEM).

What part of "most of Android updates forever" don't you understand, Steve?
It's a _different_ use model, Steve.

You should be comparing Apple's iOS to Windows S mode - not to Android.

> But it's safe to say that nearly all users of the other system wish that
> they had some of those features.

I have both platforms Steve.
You have both.

Most (if not all) the apologists have only the iOS S mode platform.

I _know_ the difference Steve.
It's _huge_.

There is _zero_ app functionality on iOS not already on Android.
Zero.

If there was even a _single_ functionality - it could be produced.
And yet - it never is.

All the apologists can come up with is brand names or trademarks.
But they have _never_ even once come up with a _single_ functionality.

That's a fact.
It's a fact for one reason and one reason only.

*Apple _restricts_ what the market can provide - Google can't.*

nospam wrote on 18.06.2021 15:09
> samsung stated 4 years of security updates for some models, not all of
> them. system updates are typically 2-3 years.

What's interesting is how predictably inconsistent you always are nospam.

You claim Samsung "just started" as if that's not the norm... and then, in
the very next breath you mention something Apple "just started" as if it
_is_ the norm.

You can't have it both ways, nospam.

> meanwhile, apple is releasing security updates for 8 year old phones
> and system updates for 6 year old phones. nothing on android comes
> anywhere close to that.

See above.
You are inconsistent in your defense of the iOS S mode update model.

>> Not many people on Android would want Apple's update model.
>
> yes they would. they're not thrilled that a 2-3 year old phone stops
> getting updates.

Nobody wants the iOS S mode model on Android, nospam.
Nobody.

What they want is frequent security updates but not iOS S mode.
(Just as nobody wants Windows S mode either - iOS is the same thing.)

>> They like that Android is mostly updated by them whenever they want.
>
> ios can be configured to update manually if that's what the user
> prefers, or automatically.

*Why do you apologists incessantly claim _imaginary_ iOS functionality?*

Google Play asynchronously updates Qualcomm hardware drivers, nospam.
You can't do that with the monolithic iOS S mode update model nospam.

Google Play asynchronously updates more than half of Android, nospam.
The primitive monolithic iOS S mode update model does not do that.

>> The absolute version of Android doesn't matter to most people.
>> All they want are the monthly security updates.
>
> same for ios.

The difference is nobody on Android wants the iOS S mode update model.
Just like nobody wants the Windows S mode model (which is the same).

What people want are monthly security updates.
The market (on Android) provides all the new features people ask for.

On iOS, Apple _restricts_ what the market can provide (Google can't).

In article <saia6l$rib$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> In my extended family we have a lot of iPhone users expecting to upgrade
> to the iPhone 13 as long as it has most of the features that are
> expected to be added: 120 Hz LTPO screen,

what you fail to mention is that the higher refresh rate must be
manually enabled, is not supported at all resolutions and causes
additional battery drain.

apple's solution adjusts to content and at full resolution, so the
impact to battery life is negligible. 120hz is a waste of energy when
looking at still photos or reading email, for example, but can be
useful in a graphically intensive game (which is already a battery
drain with the gpu).

another factor is that apple can't get the necessary displays in the
quantities they need. a low volume android device doesn't have that
limitation.

> 3D FaceID,

iphones have had 3d face id for several years.

rest of your babble snipped.