I finally found time to install OpenVMS 9.1

I got it to run on vSphere (configuring the serial port in vCenter was annoying) and managed to install OpenSSH.

Then I noticed that while a pascal command exists, cc is missing.

Is a C compiler not done yet? I couldn't find a package.

Or am I overlooking something?

Den 2021-09-23 kl. 12:04, skrev Andrew Brehm:
> I finally found time to install OpenVMS 9.1
>
> I got it to run on vSphere (configuring the serial port in vCenter was
> annoying) and managed to install OpenSSH.
>
> Then I noticed that while a pascal command exists, cc is missing.
>
> Is a C compiler not done yet? I couldn't find a package.
>
> Or am I overlooking something?

It has been said that most compilers still uses cross-compile on IA64.

On 9/23/2021 6:16 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2021-09-23 kl. 12:04, skrev Andrew Brehm:
>> I finally found time to install OpenVMS 9.1
>>
>> I got it to run on vSphere (configuring the serial port in vCenter was
>> annoying) and managed to install OpenSSH.
>>
>> Then I noticed that while a pascal command exists, cc is missing.
>>
>> Is a C compiler not done yet? I couldn't find a package.
>>
>> Or am I overlooking something?
>
> It has been said that most compilers still uses cross-compile on IA64.

And while the PASCAL verb is there then the compiler most
likely is not.

Arne

On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 6:04:17 AM UTC-4, Andrew Brehm wrote:
> I finally found time to install OpenVMS 9.1
>
> I got it to run on vSphere (configuring the serial port in vCenter was annoying) and managed to install OpenSSH.
>
> Then I noticed that while a pascal command exists, cc is missing.
>
> Is a C compiler not done yet? I couldn't find a package.
>
> Or am I overlooking something?
There are no native compilers for V9.1. Not even a native Macro.

You need to use cross-compilers that host on Itanium.

The base OS has always included some compiler DCL verbs (goes all the way back to VAX) but the compiler installation would provide a newer version.

We are working on native compilers now but don't have a firm date. For instance, we've been building native pieces of GEM using the cross-compilers.

On 23/09/2021 15:32, John Reagan wrote:
> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 6:04:17 AM UTC-4, Andrew Brehm wrote:
>> I finally found time to install OpenVMS 9.1
>>
>> I got it to run on vSphere (configuring the serial port in vCenter was annoying) and managed to install OpenSSH.
>>
>> Then I noticed that while a pascal command exists, cc is missing.
>>
>> Is a C compiler not done yet? I couldn't find a package.
>>
>> Or am I overlooking something?
> There are no native compilers for V9.1. Not even a native Macro.
>
> You need to use cross-compilers that host on Itanium.
>
> The base OS has always included some compiler DCL verbs (goes all the way back to VAX) but the compiler installation would provide a newer version.
>
> We are working on native compilers now but don't have a firm date. For instance, we've been building native pieces of GEM using the cross-compilers.
>

Ouch. I hope for good progress. I don't have a Itanium machine around unfortunately.

On 23/09/2021 13:52, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 9/23/2021 6:16 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2021-09-23 kl. 12:04, skrev Andrew Brehm:
>>> I finally found time to install OpenVMS 9.1
>>>
>>> I got it to run on vSphere (configuring the serial port in vCenter was annoying) and managed to install OpenSSH.
>>>
>>> Then I noticed that while a pascal command exists, cc is missing.
>>>
>>> Is a C compiler not done yet? I couldn't find a package.
>>>
>>> Or am I overlooking something?
>>
>> It has been said that most compilers still uses cross-compile on IA64.
>
> And while the PASCAL verb is there then the compiler most
> likely is not.
>

Too bad. :(

On 9/23/2021 3:17 PM, Andrew Brehm wrote:
> On 23/09/2021 13:52, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 9/23/2021 6:16 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> Den 2021-09-23 kl. 12:04, skrev Andrew Brehm:
>>>> I finally found time to install OpenVMS 9.1
>>>>
>>>> I got it to run on vSphere (configuring the serial port in vCenter
>>>> was annoying) and managed to install OpenSSH.
>>>>
>>>> Then I noticed that while a pascal command exists, cc is missing.
>>>>
>>>> Is a C compiler not done yet? I couldn't find a package.
>>>>
>>>> Or am I overlooking something?
>>>
>>> It has been said that most compilers still uses cross-compile on IA64.
>>
>> And while the PASCAL verb is there then the compiler most
>> likely is not.
>
> Too bad. :(

Yes.

The explanation for the verb is here:

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/c/p8O-kaov65g/m/p0vw1AtjAgAJ

Arne

On 23/9/21 11:02 pm, John Reagan wrote:
> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 6:04:17 AM UTC-4, Andrew Brehm wrote:
>> I finally found time to install OpenVMS 9.1
>>
>> I got it to run on vSphere (configuring the serial port in vCenter was annoying) and managed to install OpenSSH.
>>
>> Then I noticed that while a pascal command exists, cc is missing.
>>
>> Is a C compiler not done yet? I couldn't find a package.
>>
>> Or am I overlooking something?
> There are no native compilers for V9.1. Not even a native Macro.
>
> You need to use cross-compilers that host on Itanium.
>
> The base OS has always included some compiler DCL verbs (goes all the way back to VAX) but the compiler installation would provide a newer version.
>
> We are working on native compilers now but don't have a firm date. For instance, we've been building native pieces of GEM using the cross-compilers.

That casts a shadow over native compilers for V9.1(-A? - due end of this
month?) and further over V9.2 (2021 2nd half - max three months away).

--
Anyone, who using social-media, forms an opinion regarding anything
other than the relative cuteness of this or that puppy-dog, needs
seriously to examine their critical thinking.

On 9/23/2021 5:50 PM, Mark Daniel wrote:

> That casts a shadow over native compilers for V9.1(-A? - due end of this month?)
> and further over V9.2 (2021 2nd half - max three months away).

V9.1-A (which should be released in about a week), will definitely not
have native compilers.

--
-- Rob

On 23/09/2021 23:50, Mark Daniel wrote:
> On 23/9/21 11:02 pm, John Reagan wrote:
>> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 6:04:17 AM UTC-4, Andrew Brehm wrote:
>>> I finally found time to install OpenVMS 9.1
>>>
>>> I got it to run on vSphere (configuring the serial port in vCenter was annoying) and managed to install OpenSSH.
>>>
>>> Then I noticed that while a pascal command exists, cc is missing.
>>>
>>> Is a C compiler not done yet? I couldn't find a package.
>>>
>>> Or am I overlooking something?
>> There are no native compilers for V9.1.  Not even a native Macro.
>>
>> You need to use cross-compilers that host on Itanium.
>>
>> The base OS has always included some compiler DCL verbs (goes all the way back to VAX) but the compiler installation would provide a newer version.
>>
>> We are working on native compilers now but don't have a firm date.  For instance, we've been building native pieces of GEM using the cross-compilers.
>
> That casts a shadow over native compilers for V9.1(-A? - due end of this month?) and further over V9.2 (2021 2nd half - max three months away).
>

Indeed.

Everything else is excusable (no web server, no database server etc.) but an OS must have a shell and a compiler or assembler for some language at a minimum.

I hope 9.2 will be complete.

Other than that I was not too unhappy with 9.1. Installation is quite fluent (even if a bit annoying with the serial connection) and the boot manager is very nice.

Den 2021-09-24 kl. 14:08, skrev Andrew Brehm:
> On 23/09/2021 23:50, Mark Daniel wrote:
>> On 23/9/21 11:02 pm, John Reagan wrote:
>>> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 6:04:17 AM UTC-4, Andrew Brehm wrote:
>>>> I finally found time to install OpenVMS 9.1
>>>>
>>>> I got it to run on vSphere (configuring the serial port in vCenter was
>>>> annoying) and managed to install OpenSSH.
>>>>
>>>> Then I noticed that while a pascal command exists, cc is missing.
>>>>
>>>> Is a C compiler not done yet? I couldn't find a package.
>>>>
>>>> Or am I overlooking something?
>>> There are no native compilers for V9.1.  Not even a native Macro.
>>>
>>> You need to use cross-compilers that host on Itanium.
>>>
>>> The base OS has always included some compiler DCL verbs (goes all the
>>> way back to VAX) but the compiler installation would provide a newer
>>> version.
>>>
>>> We are working on native compilers now but don't have a firm date.  For
>>> instance, we've been building native pieces of GEM using the
>>> cross-compilers.
>>
>> That casts a shadow over native compilers for V9.1(-A? - due end of this
>> month?) and further over V9.2 (2021 2nd half - max three months away).
>>
>
> Indeed.
>
> Everything else is excusable (no web server, no database server etc.) but
> an OS must have a shell and a compiler or assembler for some language at a
> minimum.
>
> I hope 9.2 will be complete.
>
> Other than that I was not too unhappy with 9.1. Installation is quite
> fluent (even if a bit annoying with the serial connection) and the boot
> manager is very nice.

Now... VSI has been *very* clear about the situation around compilers.
I do not understand why you complain about that now or why you expected
anything else than what has been clearly communicated.

On 24/09/2021 15:52, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2021-09-24 kl. 14:08, skrev Andrew Brehm:

>>
>> Everything else is excusable (no web server, no database server etc.) but an OS must have a shell and a compiler or assembler for some language at a minimum.
>>
>> I hope 9.2 will be complete.
>>
>> Other than that I was not too unhappy with 9.1. Installation is quite fluent (even if a bit annoying with the serial connection) and the boot manager is very nice.
>
> Now... VSI has been *very* clear about the situation around compilers.
> I do not understand why you complain about that now or why you expected
> anything else than what has been clearly communicated.
>
>

What complaining?

On 2021-09-24, Andrew Brehm <andrew@netneurotic.net> wrote:
> On 24/09/2021 15:52, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2021-09-24 kl. 14:08, skrev Andrew Brehm:
>
>>>
>>> Everything else is excusable (no web server, no database server etc.) but an OS must have a shell and a compiler or assembler for some language at a minimum.
>>>
>>> I hope 9.2 will be complete.
>>>
>>> Other than that I was not too unhappy with 9.1. Installation is quite fluent (even if a bit annoying with the serial connection) and the boot manager is very nice.
>>
>> Now... VSI has been *very* clear about the situation around compilers.
>> I do not understand why you complain about that now or why you expected
>> anything else than what has been clearly communicated.
>>
>>
>
> What complaining?

You may not have intended it as such, but the above did come across
as complaining about the compiler situation, and for all the policy
communications complaints I have about VSI, they have indeed been
very clear about the compiler situation.

Now perhaps if I ask John how he's getting on with an Ada compiler ? :-)

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 9/24/2021 1:51 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2021-09-24, Andrew Brehm <andrew@netneurotic.net> wrote:
>> On 24/09/2021 15:52, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> Den 2021-09-24 kl. 14:08, skrev Andrew Brehm:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Everything else is excusable (no web server, no database server etc.) but an OS must have a shell and a compiler or assembler for some language at a minimum.
>>>>
>>>> I hope 9.2 will be complete.
>>>>
>>>> Other than that I was not too unhappy with 9.1. Installation is quite fluent (even if a bit annoying with the serial connection) and the boot manager is very nice.
>>>
>>> Now... VSI has been *very* clear about the situation around compilers.
>>> I do not understand why you complain about that now or why you expected
>>> anything else than what has been clearly communicated.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> What complaining?
>
> You may not have intended it as such, but the above did come across
> as complaining about the compiler situation, and for all the policy
> communications complaints I have about VSI, they have indeed been
> very clear about the compiler situation.
>
> Now perhaps if I ask John how he's getting on with an Ada compiler ? :-)
>
> Simon.
>

Only if you write the question on the back of a $100M bill will he reply ...

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 9/24/21 5:17 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 9/24/2021 1:51 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2021-09-24, Andrew Brehm <andrew@netneurotic.net> wrote:
>>> On 24/09/2021 15:52, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>> Den 2021-09-24 kl. 14:08, skrev Andrew Brehm:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Everything else is excusable (no web server, no database server
>>>>> etc.) but an OS must have a shell and a compiler or assembler for
>>>>> some language at a minimum.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope 9.2 will be complete.
>>>>>
>>>>> Other than that I was not too unhappy with 9.1. Installation is
>>>>> quite fluent (even if a bit annoying with the serial connection)
>>>>> and the boot manager is very nice.
>>>>
>>>> Now... VSI has been *very* clear about the situation around compilers.
>>>> I do not understand why you complain about that now or why you expected
>>>> anything else than what has been clearly communicated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> What complaining?
>>
>> You may not have intended it as such, but the above did come across
>> as complaining about the compiler situation, and for all the policy
>> communications complaints I have about VSI, they have indeed been
>> very clear about the compiler situation.
>>
>> Now perhaps if I ask John how he's getting on with an Ada compiler ? :-)
>>
>> Simon.
>>
>
> Only if you write the question on the back of a $100M bill will he reply
> ...
>

That's not really necessary, The answer is there isn't going
to be one unless ADACore does it and that is hardly likely.

bill

On 9/24/2021 6:47 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 9/24/21 5:17 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>> On 9/24/2021 1:51 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-24, Andrew Brehm <andrew@netneurotic.net> wrote:
>>>> On 24/09/2021 15:52, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>> Den 2021-09-24 kl. 14:08, skrev Andrew Brehm:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everything else is excusable (no web server, no database server
>>>>>> etc.) but an OS must have a shell and a compiler or assembler for
>>>>>> some language at a minimum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope 9.2 will be complete.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other than that I was not too unhappy with 9.1. Installation is
>>>>>> quite fluent (even if a bit annoying with the serial connection)
>>>>>> and the boot manager is very nice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now... VSI has been *very* clear about the situation around compilers.
>>>>> I do not understand why you complain about that now or why you
>>>>> expected
>>>>> anything else than what has been clearly communicated.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What complaining?
>>>
>>> You may not have intended it as such, but the above did come across
>>> as complaining about the compiler situation, and for all the policy
>>> communications complaints I have about VSI, they have indeed been
>>> very clear about the compiler situation.
>>>
>>> Now perhaps if I ask John how he's getting on with an Ada compiler ? :-)
>>>
>>> Simon.
>>>
>>
>> Only if you write the question on the back of a $100M bill will he
>> reply ...
>>
>
> That's not really necessary, The answer is there isn't going
> to be one unless ADACore does it and that is hardly likely.
>
> bill
>

What? You doubt that John would come up with something for a hundred
million? Bet for that much ADAcore would too.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 9/24/21 6:58 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 9/24/2021 6:47 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> On 9/24/21 5:17 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>> On 9/24/2021 1:51 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>>> On 2021-09-24, Andrew Brehm <andrew@netneurotic.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 24/09/2021 15:52, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>> Den 2021-09-24 kl. 14:08, skrev Andrew Brehm:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Everything else is excusable (no web server, no database server
>>>>>>> etc.) but an OS must have a shell and a compiler or assembler for
>>>>>>> some language at a minimum.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope 9.2 will be complete.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Other than that I was not too unhappy with 9.1. Installation is
>>>>>>> quite fluent (even if a bit annoying with the serial connection)
>>>>>>> and the boot manager is very nice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now... VSI has been *very* clear about the situation around
>>>>>> compilers.
>>>>>> I do not understand why you complain about that now or why you
>>>>>> expected
>>>>>> anything else than what has been clearly communicated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What complaining?
>>>>
>>>> You may not have intended it as such, but the above did come across
>>>> as complaining about the compiler situation, and for all the policy
>>>> communications complaints I have about VSI, they have indeed been
>>>> very clear about the compiler situation.
>>>>
>>>> Now perhaps if I ask John how he's getting on with an Ada compiler ?
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> Simon.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Only if you write the question on the back of a $100M bill will he
>>> reply ...
>>>
>>
>> That's not really necessary,  The answer is there isn't going
>> to be one unless ADACore does it and that is hardly likely.
>>
>> bill
>>
>
> What?  You doubt that John would come up with something for a hundred
> million?  Bet for that much ADAcore would too.
>

No, I just doubt that anyone is going to come up with even a penny.
Sad, really, when you realize that like many other things Ada got
it's start on VMS which had one of the first validated compilers.
I remember well the work being done on the 11/750 at West Point
and how everyone logged off the machine when the Ada compiler was
in use because it pretty much grinded to a halt. :-)

bill