Are phone calls and texts different from using data?

Are there locations, in the USA or elsewhere, where one can make a
cellular phone call but cannot receive any data? I seem to have
experienced that but I'm no longer sure. (I'm not referring to billing.
Let's assume the person has paid for data and still has some left.)

Did I read that cellular phone calls now use the same transmission
method that data does? If that is true, it seems to me the answer to
the first question would be No.

What about texts? IIUC they are something like phone calls. At least
they are or were more like calls than like data.

Is it now possible to be somewere where phone calls are possible, or
where texting is possible, but using an app is not possible?

micky wrote:
> Are phone calls and texts different from using data?
>
> Are there locations, in the USA or elsewhere, where one can make a
> cellular phone call but cannot receive any data? I seem to have
> experienced that but I'm no longer sure. (I'm not referring to billing.
> Let's assume the person has paid for data and still has some left.)
>
> Did I read that cellular phone calls now use the same transmission
> method that data does? If that is true, it seems to me the answer to
> the first question would be No.
>
> What about texts? IIUC they are something like phone calls. At least
> they are or were more like calls than like data.
>
> Is it now possible to be somewere where phone calls are possible, or
> where texting is possible, but using an app is not possible?
>
>

I live in the UK, so I can't speak for the US. But the difference here
in what you're asking is GPS/wifi.
Calls and texts come via the former, data via the latter.

Most suppliers sell their stuff with a promise of "so much GBs of data"
included.

Ed

Ed Cryer wrote on 10.07.2021 20:25
> I live in the UK, so I can't speak for the US. But the difference here
> in what you're asking is GPS/wifi.
> Calls and texts come via the former, data via the latter.
>
> Most suppliers sell their stuff with a promise of "so much GBs of data"
> included.

Here in the USA, there are (fundamentally) only a handful of major carriers,
most of whom seem to be more or less quickly moving us toward the postpaid
world of unlimited everything, for a price around twenty-five bucks a month.
a. Unlimited calls
b. Unlimited text (aka SMS)
c. Unlimited data (both MMS & cellular high-speed, aka 5G, data)
d. Free unlimited roaming on other carriers' towers

Usually our plans include Canada and Mexico where the details are similar.
The plans can differ greatly when we travel to Europe where my plan provides
me with unlimited free data and roaming while in Europe, with unlimited
MMS/SMS texting, but they do charge 25 cents a minute (both ways) for calls.

Given that is a typical USA plan (aka I don't have any special clout), the
_only_ thing that costs me extra is the calls cost a quarter a minute when I
travel across the ocean. Otherwise, everything else is unlimited nowadays.

All for something around twenty to twenty-five bucks a month (in my plan).
--
Purposefully helpful adults share experiences around the world on Usenet.

On 7/10/2021 7:29 AM, micky wrote:
> Are phone calls and texts different from using data?
>
> Are there locations, in the USA or elsewhere, where one can make a
> cellular phone call but cannot receive any data?

Yes, but not a lot, and it depends on your carrier and their roaming
policies. Twice in the past year I've been roaming on smaller carriers
where I can only do voice calls or SMS, but have not data connection. I
use a Verizon MVNO. I suspect that if I were on Verizon proper that I
would have full roaming, including data.

SMS and voice, even VoLTE don't use data. MMS does use data.

When traveling in China I bought a data-only Hong Kong SIM and used
Google Voice for voice calls so that used data (Google wasn't blocked
with the Hong Kong China Unicom SIM, at least in 2019, but with the
changes in Hong Kong I don't know if this is still the case).

I should also mention that here, in the USA, we _often_ get our phones for
free (as I did my Samsung Galaxy A32 5G) or at huge discounts (as I did my
half-price 128GB iPhone 12 mini) _without_ incurring any contract
requirements (other than to pay whatever remains on the monthly stipend for
the free phone if we leave the carrier prior to the two years it was given
to us for).

All we have to do is pay the local sales tax on those "free" phones.

So we can add to that list of "typical" plans in the USA of something like>
a. No contracts (and no penalties)
b. Free or half-price phones
c. Unlocking of those phones (when you finally own them outright)
d. Unlimited calls (USA, Mexico, Canada)
e. Unlimited text (aka SMS)
f. Unlimited data (both MMS & cellular high-speed, aka 5G, data)
g. Free unlimited roaming on other carriers' towers in USA & Europe
h. Free unlimited data & text (SMS/MMS) while traveling in Europe
i. Calls (incoming & outgoing) are 25 cents/minute while in Europe

Notice everything, essentially, is free & unlimited, save for the phone
calls while traveling in Europe (which are a quarter a minute).
--
Usenet allows people around the world to compare their experiences.

In article <sccqdg$e26$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> SMS and voice, even VoLTE don't use data. MMS does use data.

*everything* on lte uses data. volte = voice over lte. voice calls are
voip. old lte phones that didn't support volte switched to 3g for
voice.

Am 10.07.21 um 16:29 schrieb micky:
> Are phone calls and texts different from using data?

It depends.

> Are there locations, in the USA or elsewhere, where one can make a
> cellular phone call but cannot receive any data? I seem to have
> experienced that but I'm no longer sure. (I'm not referring to billing.
> Let's assume the person has paid for data and still has some left.)
>
> Did I read that cellular phone calls now use the same transmission
> method that data does? If that is true, it seems to me the answer to
> the first question would be No.

In LTE- and 5G-networks phone calls are IP-based and therefore data. But
they are not billed as such.

> What about texts? IIUC they are something like phone calls. At least
> they are or were more like calls than like data.

Real texts are sent over the control- or service channel and are
something completely different from internet data or phone calls.
WhatsApp and iMsg as well as other intant messaging are pure data and
have technically nothing to do with text.

> Is it now possible to be somewere where phone calls are possible, or
> where texting is possible, but using an app is not possible?

Difficult to say. With modern networks like LTE or 5G the answer is no.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 10.07.21 um 20:54 schrieb sms:
> On 7/10/2021 7:29 AM, micky wrote:
>> Are phone calls and texts different from using data?
>>
>> Are there locations, in the USA or elsewhere, where one can make a
>> cellular phone call but cannot receive any data?
>
> Yes, but not a lot, and it depends on your carrier and their roaming
> policies. Twice in the past year I've been roaming on smaller carriers
> where I can only do voice calls or SMS, but have not data connection. I
> use a Verizon MVNO. I suspect that if I were on Verizon proper that I
> would have full roaming, including data.
>
> SMS and voice, even VoLTE don't use data. MMS does use data.

That is totally wrong. In LTE and 5G-networks everything but SMS/text
are pure data. They are not billed as such.

On 7/10/2021 2:39 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 10.07.21 um 20:54 schrieb sms:
>> On 7/10/2021 7:29 AM, micky wrote:
>>> Are phone calls and texts different from using data?
>>>
>>> Are there locations, in the USA or elsewhere, where one can make a
>>> cellular phone call but cannot receive any data?
>>
>> Yes, but not a lot, and it depends on your carrier and their roaming
>> policies. Twice in the past year I've been roaming on smaller carriers
>> where I can only do voice calls or SMS, but have not data connection. I
>> use a Verizon MVNO. I suspect that if I were on Verizon proper that I
>> would have full roaming, including data.
>>
>> SMS and voice, even VoLTE don't use data. MMS does use data.
>
> That is totally wrong. In LTE and 5G-networks everything but SMS/text
> are pure data. They are not billed as such.

Sigh, I'm sure you understood when I said "don't use data" it referred
to subtracting data from your data allocation, if any.

And of course you're wrong anyway.

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 10 Jul 2021 23:36:19 +0200, Joerg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

>
>> Is it now possible to be somewere where phone calls are possible, or
>> where texting is possible, but using an app is not possible?
>
>Difficult to say. With modern networks like LTE or 5G the answer is no.

But if the network coverage map says at a given location it has

5G
4G LTE 2100 outside
4G LTE 1900 outside
4G LTE 700 outside and car
4G LTE 600 outside and car
3G/4G UMTS 1900 outside and car
2G GSM 1900 outside

And I can't get data or phone on LTE, might I stil be able to get phone
but no data on the next to last line's frequency?

(I've heard that 2G has disappeared.)

micky wrote:
> Are phone calls and texts different from using data?
>
> Are there locations, in the USA or elsewhere, where one can make a
> cellular phone call but cannot receive any data? I seem to have
> experienced that but I'm no longer sure. (I'm not referring to billing.
> Let's assume the person has paid for data and still has some left.)
>
> Did I read that cellular phone calls now use the same transmission
> method that data does? If that is true, it seems to me the answer to
> the first question would be No.
>
> What about texts? IIUC they are something like phone calls. At least
> they are or were more like calls than like data.
>
> Is it now possible to be somewere where phone calls are possible, or
> where texting is possible, but using an app is not possible?

Yes. I'm often in a place, which is part of a large forested area (US). There
are no cell towers within the area, only on the edges. In some spots, I can
make and receive phone calls and send/receive SMS text messages, but MMS
messages do not go through, nor can I use the data connection to access the
Internet. Take a short walk in a particular direction, and MMS messages go
through and I get Internet. Walk in the other direction and I may lose voice,
but retain SMS. This is with a 4G LTE phone hitting Verizon towers. (Just in
case anyone is wondering, no, there is no WiFi in the woods.)

I know people are going to say that voice messages are using the same
underlying communication as data ("HD Voice"?), and I'm not sure why I can
still use voice+SMS without data+MMS, but it does really happen. Perhaps my
phone is dropping back to 3G for that? I don't really know.

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 10 Jul 2021 21:29:05 -0400, lj
<lj618@pobox.com> wrote:

>micky wrote:
>> Are phone calls and texts different from using data?
>>
>> Are there locations, in the USA or elsewhere, where one can make a
>> cellular phone call but cannot receive any data? I seem to have
>> experienced that but I'm no longer sure. (I'm not referring to billing.
>> Let's assume the person has paid for data and still has some left.)
>>
>> Did I read that cellular phone calls now use the same transmission
>> method that data does? If that is true, it seems to me the answer to
>> the first question would be No.
>>
>> What about texts? IIUC they are something like phone calls. At least
>> they are or were more like calls than like data.
>>
>> Is it now possible to be somewere where phone calls are possible, or
>> where texting is possible, but using an app is not possible?
>
>
>Yes. I'm often in a place, which is part of a large forested area (US). There
>are no cell towers within the area, only on the edges. In some spots, I can
>make and receive phone calls and send/receive SMS text messages, but MMS
>messages do not go through, nor can I use the data connection to access the
>Internet.

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking of. Maybe I should have
mentioned the woods (a habit for some reason. I was going to ask a
second time with such details.)

>Take a short walk in a particular direction, and MMS messages go
>through and I get Internet. Walk in the other direction and I may lose voice,
>but retain SMS. This is with a 4G LTE phone hitting Verizon towers. (Just in
>case anyone is wondering, no, there is no WiFi in the woods.)
>
>I know people are going to say that voice messages are using the same
>underlying communication as data ("HD Voice"?), and I'm not sure why I can
>still use voice+SMS without data+MMS, but it does really happen. Perhaps my
>phone is dropping back to 3G for that? I don't really know.

In my reply to Joerg, I gave what the coverage map said for the first
half of my planned trip. But even though it says that is the coverage
at a dozen spots along the way, it also says that things like terrain
affect reception, and this is a planned rubber raft trip. Suprisingly,
all rivers and streams are in valleys and the middle part of this one is
deep.

I have never used this medium priced rubber raft. I bought it at a
thrift store for $10 and it was years old then, and that wa 10 years
ago. So I'm trying to plan in case the boat "sinks". It won't really
sink but it may slow down so much I want to end it. Rubber rafts are
slow in the first place, and if a chamber goes flat, it will barely
move. The plan is to call an uber when I'm done, and I was going to use
the app. But if the app doesn't work, maybe I could just call. So
that's why I was interested if I might be able to call even if data
didn't work.

So I've looked some more and uber does have a phone number you can call,
but they insiste you receive a text when they send it, and according to
what you say, I may be able to call and to receive a text in return, and
then they'll send the uber.

But it turns out you can only call on the phone for one in Arizona and
another far away state. So that is out, but I can take the phone number
of a real taxi company and call them. This thread just made me think of
that.

Even that might be a problem. Parts of the river are maybe even a mile
from any road that a taxi can drive down, and I'll have to walk,
probably carryign the raft, but I'll just trust that the boat doesn't
sink in that part.

At the very end, a quarter mile before the Baltimore Inner Harbor, there
is a boat landing and total coverage, and if everything goes great,
that's where I will end up.

The boat is not much bigger than a suitcase when it's deflated. . The
same company doesn't sell anything so simple now, but it probably cost
100 or 200 when new. (I had to buy 2 valves for $14 and a different kind
of pump) If it works well in this calm section of the Patapsco, I may
try it on a rougher part, where at least on weekends there will be other
boaters, but I don't want it to sink on my first effort.

Thanks and thanks all.

Am 11.07.21 um 01:21 schrieb sms:
> On 7/10/2021 2:39 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> That is totally wrong. In LTE and 5G-networks everything but SMS/text
>> are pure data. They are not billed as such.
>
> Sigh, I'm sure you understood when I said "don't use data" it referred
> to subtracting data from your data allocation, if any.
>
> And of course you're wrong anyway.

For simple minds like you: LTE/4G and 5G everything but SMS is IP-based.
There is nothing to add.

Why are you spreading fake news all the time?

Am 11.07.21 um 03:07 schrieb micky:
> In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 10 Jul 2021 23:36:19 +0200, Joerg Lorenz
> <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Is it now possible to be somewere where phone calls are possible, or
>>> where texting is possible, but using an app is not possible?
>>
>> Difficult to say. With modern networks like LTE or 5G the answer is no.
>
> But if the network coverage map says at a given location it has
>
> 5G
> 4G LTE 2100 outside
> 4G LTE 1900 outside
> 4G LTE 700 outside and car
> 4G LTE 600 outside and car
> 3G/4G UMTS 1900 outside and car
> 2G GSM 1900 outside
>
> And I can't get data or phone on LTE, might I stil be able to get phone
> but no data on the next to last line's frequency?
>
> (I've heard that 2G has disappeared.)

Your scenario is possible in GSM/2G-networks but in many countries
2G-service is terminated because 5G is taking over.
With a smartphone in a 2G-network it is possible that you can make phone
calls and text but not use IP-based apps.

paul wrote:

> Here in the USA, there are (fundamentally) only a handful of major carriers,
> most of whom seem to be more or less quickly moving us toward the postpaid
> world of unlimited everything, for a price around twenty-five bucks a month.

seems to be improving over there, ISTR not long ago people paying over
$50/month.

> a. Unlimited calls > b. Unlimited text (aka SMS)

pretty standard, though MMS are often not free.

> c. Unlimited data (both MMS & cellular high-speed, aka 5G, data)

unlimited data is not common (or not cheap) here, I get 12GB that can
roll-over for £10/month

> d. Free unlimited roaming on other carriers' towers

we don't get that within the UK, you stick to your own network, though
there is some mast sharing in places, and at the moment several
countries you can "roam like at home" but some data caps apply.

Am 11.07.21 um 09:08 schrieb Joerg Lorenz:
> Am 11.07.21 um 03:07 schrieb micky:
>> And I can't get data or phone on LTE, might I stil be able to get phone
>> but no data on the next to last line's frequency?
>>
>> (I've heard that 2G has disappeared.)
>
> Your scenario is possible in GSM/2G-networks but in many countries
> 2G-service is terminated because 5G is taking over.
> With a smartphone in a 2G-network it is possible that you can make phone
> calls and text but not use IP-based apps.

But AFAIK not vice versa.

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
> But AFAIK not vice versa.

If your carrier doesn't do VoLTE, I think it's possible to get in a
situation where you have LTE but not 3G signal. Your phone will drop down
to 3G for voice calls, only to find there is no 3G connectivity.

I think that's relatively rare these days (in the UK anyway) because
spectrum refarming means the towers with 3G have been able to repurpose some
of that for LTE. Which means you're less likely to find a place with LTE
but no 3G. And of course VoLTE has become more common (although perhaps not
among MVNOs? I'm not sure).

Theo

On 7/11/2021 9:03 AM, Theo wrote:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>> But AFAIK not vice versa.
>
> If your carrier doesn't do VoLTE, I think it's possible to get in a
> situation where you have LTE but not 3G signal. Your phone will drop down
> to 3G for voice calls, only to find there is no 3G connectivity.
>
> I think that's relatively rare these days (in the UK anyway) because
> spectrum refarming means the towers with 3G have been able to repurpose some
> of that for LTE. Which means you're less likely to find a place with LTE
> but no 3G. And of course VoLTE has become more common (although perhaps not
> among MVNOs? I'm not sure).

Very rare to non-existent in the U.S. now. But as long as you have LTE
data you can always use a VOIP service like Google Voice to make calls.

Also, in some countries it's a lot easier to buy a data-only SIM if
you're a tourist because the governments don't like prepaid SIM cards
with phone numbers being used for criminal purposes. I used to go to
Taiwan a lot. For a long time I would just go to 7-11 (there is a 7-11
every few hundred meters in Taipei) and buy a SIM card. Then the
government cracked down and I had to go to the carrier's store to get a
SIM and provide two forms of ID. Now they've given up on that and are
back to allowing SIM cards to be sold at convenience stores.

Last time I was in China, in 2019, I bought a data-only SIM card on
Amazon and it worked fine, no "Great Firewall" either because it was
from Hong Kong. I used Google Voice, WeChat, and WhatsApp for voice
calls. I was in Italy in 2019 as well, and bought, in advance, a UK
Vodafone SIM card (which worked all over the EU), even though it came
with a phone number I mainly used Google Voice for calls.