To: digital man
Ok, I don't think AcornSCII is a thing, but I'm wondered if the way you integrated PETSCII could be a basis for supporting BBC Mode 7.

The BBC was a popular British computer used throughout schools in the 80's. It's one of those "coming back in" retro computers. As you know, I've been working on a videotex (viewdata) system which works with 7E1 but I'm thinking that since Mode 7 the BBC uses is 40 columns, and PETSCII also supports 40 columns, Maybe we can find a way to support BBC Mode 7 characters.

Colours are basic, red, yellow, green, blue, cyan, magenta, and white. They can be steady for flashing. Same colours can be used for background or foreground. Graphics are simple 2 column x 3 row blocks either contiguous or separated all controlled by character codes. There's also double height and a few other things but otherwise that's all you really have.

How would I go about developing this idea further with the possiblity of including it in sbbs?
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To: Nelgin
Re: Using PETSCII as a base for other SCII?
By: Nelgin to digital man on Wed Feb 15 2023 03:59 am

> Ok, I don't think AcornSCII is a thing, but I'm wondered if the way you
> integrated PETSCII could be a basis for supporting BBC Mode 7.

Perhaps. Do you have a reference specification for this terminal's character and control sequences?

> The BBC was a popular British computer used throughout schools in the 80's.
> It's one of those "coming back in" retro computers. As you know, I've been
> working on a videotex (viewdata) system which works with 7E1 but I'm
> thinking that since Mode 7 the BBC uses is 40 columns, and PETSCII also
> supports 40 columns, Maybe we can find a way to support BBC Mode 7
> characters.

The number of columns isn't a particularly big issue. It's the character set conversion and terminal control sequences that might be (depending).

> Colours are basic, red, yellow, green, blue, cyan, magenta, and white. They
> can be steady for flashing. Same colours can be used for background or
> foreground. Graphics are simple 2 column x 3 row blocks either contiguous or
> separated all controlled by character codes. There's also double height and
> a few other things but otherwise that's all you really have.
>
> How would I go about developing this idea further with the possiblity of
> including it in sbbs?

I guess point me to a spec first and I'll take a look-see and let you know if I think it's feasible. I assume you didn't mean actually developing the feature yourself (though that is possible).
--
digital man (rob)

Rush quote #76:
His reserve a quiet defense, riding out the day's events, the river..Tom Sawyer
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To: Digital Man
Re: Using PETSCII as a base for other SCII?
By: Digital Man to Nelgin on Wed Feb 15 2023 09:54:00

> > Ok, I don't think AcornSCII is a thing, but I'm wondered if the way you
> > integrated PETSCII could be a basis for supporting BBC Mode 7.

http://www.bbcbasic.co.uk/bbcwin/manual/bbcwinh.html

This is a pretty nice write up of the mode 7 character set. One thing to keep in mind with the BBC Micro Mode 7 (just call it mode 7 from here) is that each unprintable character still takes up space on the screen so selecting blue then background on takes up 2 spaces.

To demonstrate I can write up some sample programs for you and paste the results.

https://pasteboard.co/H9Go0MG96mZw.png

> I guess point me to a spec first and I'll take a look-see and let you know
> if I think it's feasible. I assume you didn't mean actually developing the
> feature yourself (though that is possible).

Probably not. Depending how complicated it got but I'm happy to help provide specs, explanations on how things work, testing and the like. I'm sure any sbbs sysop in the UK (I know at least one or two) who would probably make use of this.

Thanks,
Nigel
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To: Nelgin
Re: Using PETSCII as a base for other SCII?
By: Nelgin to digital man on Wed Feb 15 2023 03:59 am

> Ok, I don't think AcornSCII is a thing, but I'm wondered if the way you
> integrated PETSCII could be a basis for supporting BBC Mode 7.

> How would I go about developing this idea further with the possiblity of
> including it in sbbs?

I'm not sure if you recall, but I've been doing viewdata/videotex for sometime as well - with Synchronet as the engine. (You can see it in action at https://alterant.bbs.dege.au/2018/12/31/oztex/ or connecting to my BBS on port 516.

I'm not sure there is anything special that SBBS needs to do - its more on the terminal side. The characters are the normal 7 bit chars that the terminal knows what to do with...

https://github.com/mkrueger/icy_term started adding viewdata to his terminal program, and it functionally works ok - for me it renders strange, and it seems he's gone awol :(

You can also use the viewdata emulator with the BBS basic emulaator, and that works well too...

....δεσ∩

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To: deon
Re: Using PETSCII as a base for other SCII?
By: deon to Nelgin on Thu Feb 16 2023 09:19:19

> I'm not sure if you recall, but I've been doing viewdata/videotex for
> sometime as well - with Synchronet as the engine. (You can see it in action
> at https://alterant.bbs.dege.au/2018/12/31/oztex/ or connecting to my BBS on
> port 516.

Nice, but you're not running it natively. This is a viewdata system, like mine. However if someone wishes to run in a terminal, it would be different. sbbs may be able to convert 40 column ansi screens to mode 7 screens with some translation.

> You can also use the viewdata emulator with the BBS basic emulaator, and
> that works well too...

What BBS basic emulator?
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To: Nelgin
Re: Using PETSCII as a base for other SCII?
By: Nelgin to deon on Thu Feb 16 2023 12:16 am

> Nice, but you're not running it natively. This is a viewdata system, like
> mine. However if someone wishes to run in a terminal, it would be different.
> sbbs may be able to convert 40 column ansi screens to mode 7 screens with
> some translation.

Not sure I follow? If you connect to my bbs on port 516, it'll talk to you in viewdata, so without a viewdata terminal it wont mean much.

Are you wanting Synchronet to render/convert ANSI to viewdata on the fly, so that the same ANSI experience is rendered in viewdata (albeit 40 chars width)?

> > You can also use the viewdata emulator with the BBS basic emulaator, and
> > that works well too...
>
> What BBS basic emulator?

This https://www.bbcbasic.co.uk/bbcsdl/. Richard has a viewdata emulator when you start the BBC Basic environment (cant remember what its called). It is pre-configured with ccl4 and glastty and a couple of others from memory.

....δεσ∩

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To: deon
Re: Using PETSCII as a base for other SCII?
By: deon to Nelgin on Thu Feb 16 2023 21:13:55

> Not sure I follow? If you connect to my bbs on port 516, it'll talk to you
> in viewdata, so without a viewdata terminal it wont mean much.

Do, using something like Commstar, you'd need to set it to 7E1 then?
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To: Nelgin
Re: Using PETSCII as a base for other SCII?
By: Nelgin to deon on Mon Feb 20 2023 11:16 pm

Dont know what Commstar is.

> Do, using something like Commstar, you'd need to set it to 7E1 then?

I would imagine 8N1 - because I'm sending 7bit chars clean (and by definition telnet would be 8bit).

7E1 is a serial link layer protocol, so if if the other end of the serial link is receving 8bit and converting to 7bit, then using 7E1 might still be right...

....δεσ∩

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To: deon
Re: Using PETSCII as a base for other SCII?
By: deon to Nelgin on Tue Feb 21 2023 19:02:12

> 7E1 is a serial link layer protocol, so if if the other end of the serial
> link is receving 8bit and converting to 7bit, then using 7E1 might still be
> right...

Excactly. 8N1 makes things a little easier. Throw a modem on it and try and connect with Commstart with Prestel mode and you're going to find some unexpected results.
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