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computers / alt.os.linux.slackware / Re: How do *you* install Slackware

SubjectAuthor
* How do *you* install SlackwareJoseph Rosevear
+* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareDavid Robley
|`* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareJohn Forkosh
| `* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareJoseph Rosevear
|  `- Re: How do *you* install SlackwareJimmy Johnson
+* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareLew Pitcher
|`* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareJim Diamond
| +- Re: How do *you* install SlackwareRich
| `* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareMike Spencer
|  `* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareJim Diamond
|   +- Re: How do *you* install SlackwareHenrik Carlqvist
|   `* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareLew Pitcher
|    +- Re: How do *you* install SlackwareLew Pitcher
|    `* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareJim Diamond
|     +* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareRich
|     |`* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareJim Diamond
|     | `* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareJimmy Johnson
|     |  +- Re: How do *you* install SlackwareHenrik Carlqvist
|     |  `* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareJim Diamond
|     |   `* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareJimmy Johnson
|     |    `* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareRich
|     |     `* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareJimmy Johnson
|     |      `- Re: How do *you* install SlackwareRich
|     `* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareLew Pitcher
|      `- Re: How do *you* install SlackwareJim Diamond
+- Re: How do *you* install SlackwareRich
+- Re: How do *you* install SlackwareSilvenshadow
+* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareDan C
|`- Re: How do *you* install SlackwareJoseph Rosevear
+- Re: How do *you* install SlackwareHenrik Carlqvist
+* Re: How do *you* install Slackwarebad sector
|`* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareHenrik Carlqvist
| +* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareMartin Schöön
| |`* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareMartin Schöön
| | +* Re: How do *you* install Slackwaremaus
| | |+* Re: How do *you* install Slackwarenoel
| | ||`* Re: How do *you* install Slackwaremaus
| | || +* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareRich
| | || |`* Re: How do *you* install Slackwarenoel
| | || | `* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareRich
| | || |  +* Re: How do *you* install Slackwaremaus
| | || |  |`- Re: How do *you* install Slackwarenoel
| | || |  `- Re: How do *you* install Slackwarenoel
| | || `* Re: How do *you* install Slackwarenoel
| | ||  +* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareFerannia
| | ||  |`* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareTed Heise
| | ||  | `* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareFerannia
| | ||  |  `- Re: How do *you* install SlackwareTed Heise
| | ||  `* Re: How do *you* install Slackwarebad sector
| | ||   `* Re: How do *you* install Slackwareslash
| | ||    `* Re: How do *you* install Slackwarebad sector
| | ||     `* Re: How do *you* install Slackwareslash
| | ||      `* Re: {OT} How do *you* install Slackwarebad sector
| | ||       `* Re: {OT} How do *you* install Slackwareslash
| | ||        `* Re: {OT} How do *you* install Slackwarebad sector
| | ||         +* Re: {OT} How do *you* install Slackwarenoel
| | ||         |`* Re: {OT} How do *you* install Slackwarebad sector
| | ||         | `- Re: {OT} How do *you* install Slackwarenoel
| | ||         `* Re: {OT} How do *you* install SlackwareErte Ribbile
| | ||          `- Re: {OT} How do *you* install Slackwarebad sector
| | |`- Re: How do *you* install Slackwarebad sector
| | `- Re: How do *you* install SlackwareMartin Schöön
| `- Re: How do *you* install Slackwarebad sector
+- Re: How do *you* install SlackwarePeter 'Shaggy' Haywood
+- Re: How do *you* install SlackwareK. Venken
`* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareSylvain Robitaille
 `* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareJoseph Rosevear
  `* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareSylvain Robitaille
   `* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareJoseph Rosevear
    +* Re: How do *you* install SlackwareAuric__
    |`- Re: How do *you* install SlackwareSam
    `- Re: How do *you* install SlackwareSylvain Robitaille

Pages:123
Re: How do *you* install Slackware

<tval22$3n6u0$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ric...@example.invalid (Rich)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.slackware
Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 22:00:34 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Rich - Mon, 20 Mar 2023 22:00 UTC

Jim Diamond <JimDiamond@jdvb.ca> wrote:
> What you didn't address was the question I asked. Let me restate, with a
> bit more detail...
>
> Since you seem to have multiple systems, some upgraded and some fresh
> installs, is it the case that /etc/mtab is always a symlink on the fresh
> install systems and always a file on systems upgraded from 14.2 ?
>
> (Perhaps answering this is too much effort for the perceived value, but if
> it isn't, I'm curious, and perhaps others are as well.)

You can answer this question yourself.

Go to your friendly slackware mirror, and within the 15.0 file tree,
browse to the source/installe/sources/initrd directory.

Download the skeleton_initrd.tar.gz file.

Decompress the tar.gz file somewhere, and within the unpacked contents,
navigate to the usr/lib/setup directory.

View the 'setup' file in usr/lib/setup.

search for 'mtab' in the 'setup' file.

You will find this within the setup code:

# On a new system, make /etc/mtab a symlink to /proc/mounts:
if [ ! -r $T_PX/etc/mtab ]; then
mkdir -p $T_PX/etc
( cd $T_PX/etc ; ln -sf /proc/mounts mtab )
fi

What that says is if there is no "/etc/mtab' file on the disk being
installed onto, then create mtab as a sysmlink to /proc/mounts.

So, for a fresh install, /etc/mtab will always be a symlink to
/proc/mounts.

For an upgrade, with an existing /etc/mtab, the existing /etc/mtab will
be untouched.

For an upgrade, without an existing /etc/mtab (unlikely, but someone
could rm it before beginning the install) a symlink from /etc/mtab to
/proc/mounts will also be created.

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

<tvanb2$3hgfb$1@dont-email.me>

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From: lew.pitc...@digitalfreehold.ca (Lew Pitcher)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.slackware
Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 22:39:31 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: The Pitcher Digital Freehold
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 by: Lew Pitcher - Mon, 20 Mar 2023 22:39 UTC

On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 16:09:58 -0300, Jim Diamond wrote:

> On 2023-03-18 at 13:06 ADT, Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Mar 2023 17:14:03 -0300, Jim Diamond wrote:
>
>>> On 2023-03-15 at 01:19 ADT, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
>>>> Jim Diamond <JimDiamond@ns.sympatico.ca> writes:
>
>>>>> A while back there was some discussion about whether /etc/mtab is (or
>>>>> should be) a file or a link to /proc/mounts (or /proc/self/mounts).
>
>>>>> So... please chime in... What is /etc/mtab on your systems, upgraded and
>>>>> fresh installs?
>
>>>> I think I was the OP on that. Slackware 15 installed from bootable
>>>> DVD created from d/l iso. Came up with mtab as link to /proc/mounts.
>
>>>> I often mount laptop or 2nd desktop on main box's fs, for backup or
>>>> other purposes. Annoyance that root has to umount them.
>
>>>> Another poster remarked on having scripts to pre-identify how an
>>>> upgrade would/might break his setup. I've tried to avoid those
>>>> worries with always a new install, then reconstructing (with much
>>>> bother as my pleas for help here reflect) the numerous idiosyncrasies
>>>> of my setup.
>
>>> I was really hoping the guy who talked about his many systems (some clean
>>> installs, some upgrades) would chime in. But so far, no luck.
>
>> That might be me?
>
> Indeed it is.
>
>> As I said before, bare metal installs I usually perform directly from
>> bootable media (DVD or usb hard drive). Upgrades, I perform from from
>> DVD or hard drive, with the assistance of a number of home-grown scripts.
>
> <much snippage>
>
> What you didn't address was the question I asked. Let me restate, with a
> bit more detail...
>
> Since you seem to have multiple systems, some upgraded and some fresh
> installs, is it the case that /etc/mtab is always a symlink on the fresh
> install systems and always a file on systems upgraded from 14.2 ?

As I don't (yet) have any systems running Slackware 15.0, I can't answer
that question. However, all my 14.2 systems, both fresh install and upgrade
have an /etc/mtab file, and not a symlink.

Hope that helps
--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills We Trust"

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

<slrnu1mq0q.jsm.JimDiamond@x360.localdomain>

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From: JimDiam...@jdvb.ca (Jim Diamond)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.slackware
Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 17:42:01 -0300
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 by: Jim Diamond - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 20:42 UTC

On 2023-03-20 at 19:39 ADT, Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 16:09:58 -0300, Jim Diamond wrote:

>> On 2023-03-18 at 13:06 ADT, Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 17 Mar 2023 17:14:03 -0300, Jim Diamond wrote:

>>>> On 2023-03-15 at 01:19 ADT, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

>>>>> Jim Diamond <JimDiamond@ns.sympatico.ca> writes:

>>>>>> A while back there was some discussion about whether /etc/mtab is (or
>>>>>> should be) a file or a link to /proc/mounts (or /proc/self/mounts).

>>>>>> So... please chime in... What is /etc/mtab on your systems, upgraded and
>>>>>> fresh installs?

>>>>> I think I was the OP on that. Slackware 15 installed from bootable
>>>>> DVD created from d/l iso. Came up with mtab as link to /proc/mounts.

>>>>> I often mount laptop or 2nd desktop on main box's fs, for backup or
>>>>> other purposes. Annoyance that root has to umount them.

>>>>> Another poster remarked on having scripts to pre-identify how an
>>>>> upgrade would/might break his setup. I've tried to avoid those
>>>>> worries with always a new install, then reconstructing (with much
>>>>> bother as my pleas for help here reflect) the numerous idiosyncrasies
>>>>> of my setup.

>>>> I was really hoping the guy who talked about his many systems (some clean
>>>> installs, some upgrades) would chime in. But so far, no luck.

>>> That might be me?

>> Indeed it is.

>>> As I said before, bare metal installs I usually perform directly from
>>> bootable media (DVD or usb hard drive). Upgrades, I perform from from
>>> DVD or hard drive, with the assistance of a number of home-grown scripts.

>> <much snippage>

>> What you didn't address was the question I asked. Let me restate, with a
>> bit more detail...

>> Since you seem to have multiple systems, some upgraded and some fresh
>> installs, is it the case that /etc/mtab is always a symlink on the fresh
>> install systems and always a file on systems upgraded from 14.2 ?

> As I don't (yet) have any systems running Slackware 15.0, I can't answer
> that question. However, all my 14.2 systems, both fresh install and upgrade
> have an /etc/mtab file, and not a symlink.

> Hope that helps

It does help, in the sense that I now know you don't have a large sample of
15.0 systems sitting there waiting to reveal their secrets.

Cheers.
Jim

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

<slrnu1mqbs.jsm.JimDiamond@x360.localdomain>

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From: JimDiam...@jdvb.ca (Jim Diamond)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.slackware
Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 17:47:56 -0300
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 by: Jim Diamond - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 20:47 UTC

On 2023-03-20 at 19:00 ADT, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> Jim Diamond <JimDiamond@jdvb.ca> wrote:
>> What you didn't address was the question I asked. Let me restate, with a
>> bit more detail...

>> Since you seem to have multiple systems, some upgraded and some fresh
>> installs, is it the case that /etc/mtab is always a symlink on the fresh
>> install systems and always a file on systems upgraded from 14.2 ?

>> (Perhaps answering this is too much effort for the perceived value, but if
>> it isn't, I'm curious, and perhaps others are as well.)

> You can answer this question yourself.

> Go to your friendly slackware mirror, and within the 15.0 file tree,
> browse to the source/installe/sources/initrd directory.

> Download the skeleton_initrd.tar.gz file.

> Decompress the tar.gz file somewhere, and within the unpacked contents,
> navigate to the usr/lib/setup directory.

> View the 'setup' file in usr/lib/setup.

> search for 'mtab' in the 'setup' file.

> You will find this within the setup code:

> # On a new system, make /etc/mtab a symlink to /proc/mounts:
> if [ ! -r $T_PX/etc/mtab ]; then
> mkdir -p $T_PX/etc
> ( cd $T_PX/etc ; ln -sf /proc/mounts mtab )
> fi

> What that says is if there is no "/etc/mtab' file on the disk being
> installed onto, then create mtab as a sysmlink to /proc/mounts.

> So, for a fresh install, /etc/mtab will always be a symlink to
> /proc/mounts.

How curious... I did a fresh install, and yet my mtab is a file. I wonder
what I might have done to cause this to happen. Perhaps a stray neutrino
hit some gate in my CPU or some bit in a register just at the wrong moment.

Anyway, thanks for the detailed pointer to the code which creates the
link.

Jim

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

<tvg9ge$s0r3$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Jim...@disposable.invalid (Jimmy Johnson)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.slackware
Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
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 by: Jimmy Johnson - Thu, 23 Mar 2023 01:20 UTC

On 03/22/2023 01:47 PM, Jim Diamond wrote:

> How curious... I did a fresh install, and yet my mtab is a file.

Yes, in 14.2, 15.0 and Current mtab is a file and not a folder. I have
all 3 installed and I checked.
--
Jimmy Johnson
Slackware Current - AMD A8-7600 at sda7
Registered Linux User #380263

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

<tvgsgu$11l32$1@dont-email.me>

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Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.slackware
Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
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 by: Henrik Carlqvist - Thu, 23 Mar 2023 06:44 UTC

On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 18:20:11 -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote:

> On 03/22/2023 01:47 PM, Jim Diamond wrote:
>
>> How curious... I did a fresh install, and yet my mtab is a file.
>
> Yes, in 14.2, 15.0 and Current mtab is a file and not a folder. I have
> all 3 installed and I checked.

For me, on all Slackware 15 fresh installs, /etc/mtab is a symbolic link:

-8<--------------------------
bash-5.1$ ls -al /etc/mtab
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 Jul 17 2022 /etc/mtab -> /proc/mounts
bash-5.1$ cat /etc/slackware-version
Slackware 15.0
-8<--------------------------

On 14.2 and older it is a file:

-8<--------------------------
bash-4.3$ ls -al /etc/mtab
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 735 Mar 19 11:31 /etc/mtab
bash-4.3$ cat /etc/slackware-version
Slackware 14.2
-8<--------------------------

On Slackware 15.0, /etc/mtab will become a file if the symbolic link is
removed. From /etc/rc.d/rc.S:

-8<--------------------------
# If /etc/mtab is a symlink (probably to /proc/mounts) then we don't want
to mess with it.
if [ ! -L /etc/mtab -o ! -r /etc/mtab ]; then
# /etc/mtab is a file (or doesn't exist), so we'll handle it the old
way:
# Any /etc/mtab that exists here is old, so we start with a new one:
/bin/rm -f /etc/mtab{,~,.tmp} && /bin/touch /etc/mtab
-8<--------------------------

regards Henrik

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

<slrnu1ufs1.lm5.JimDiamond@x360.localdomain>

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From: JimDiam...@jdvb.ca (Jim Diamond)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.slackware
Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2023 15:37:53 -0300
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 by: Jim Diamond - Sat, 25 Mar 2023 18:37 UTC

On 2023-03-22 at 22:20 ADT, Jimmy Johnson <Jimmy@disposable.invalid> wrote:
> On 03/22/2023 01:47 PM, Jim Diamond wrote:
>
>> How curious... I did a fresh install, and yet my mtab is a file.
>
> Yes, in 14.2, 15.0 and Current mtab is a file and not a folder. I have
> all 3 installed and I checked.

As Henrik (and maybe others) have pointed out, the "fresh install" code
should make it a link.

But when you say "not a folder" (and I assume you mean "not a directory"),
that isn't the issue. It might be a symlink to /proc/mounts.

Were your 15.0 and current systems upgraded from 14.2 or fresh installs?

Jim

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

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From: Jim...@disposable.invalid (Jimmy Johnson)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.slackware
Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
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 by: Jimmy Johnson - Sat, 25 Mar 2023 22:24 UTC

On 03/25/2023 11:37 AM, Jim Diamond wrote:
> On 2023-03-22 at 22:20 ADT, Jimmy Johnson <Jimmy@disposable.invalid> wrote:
>> On 03/22/2023 01:47 PM, Jim Diamond wrote:

>>> How curious... I did a fresh install, and yet my mtab is a file.
>>
>> Yes, in 14.2, 15.0 and Current mtab is a file and not a folder. I have
>> all 3 installed and I checked.

> As Henrik (and maybe others) have pointed out, the "fresh install" code
> should make it a link.

> But when you say "not a folder" (and I assume you mean "not a directory"),
> that isn't the issue. It might be a symlink to /proc/mounts.

So you've decided to become the teacher and not the student, how rude of
you. I don't normally go around correction such trivial things but in
your case I will make the exception. When I open my file manager and go
to my /home/"folder" and right click I get the option to make a new
"folder". No where is the word "directory" mentioned. And in your file
manager you have two things folders and files, that makes a symbolic
link a file. Now please don't go around correcting people for trivial
things it is rude. By the way "Were" is not the word you wanted to use,
maybe "where" or "was" is what you wanted to say. Now I'm done being the
one who is rude. :)

> Were your 15.0 and current systems upgraded from 14.2 or fresh installs?

You install the current stable(today that would be 15.0) and go to
/etc/slackpkg/mirrors and switch to current, done. And like I said, I
run old stable, current stable and current. And yes, upgrading current
will give you the next stable, I have done both, upgrade install and
fresh install, If you want stable a fresh install is the best way to go.
And yes 14.2 was upgraded to 15.0, but like I said doing a fresh install
is the best way to go.
--
Jimmy Johnson

Slackware64 15.0 - i7-2820QM - EXT4 at sda9
Registered Linux User #380263

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

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From: ric...@example.invalid (Rich)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.slackware
Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2023 04:21:50 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Rich - Sun, 26 Mar 2023 04:21 UTC

Jimmy Johnson <Jimmy@disposable.invalid> wrote:
> On 03/25/2023 11:37 AM, Jim Diamond wrote:
>> On 2023-03-22 at 22:20 ADT, Jimmy Johnson <Jimmy@disposable.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 03/22/2023 01:47 PM, Jim Diamond wrote:
>
>>>> How curious... I did a fresh install, and yet my mtab is a file.
>>>
>>> Yes, in 14.2, 15.0 and Current mtab is a file and not a folder. I have
>>> all 3 installed and I checked.
>
>> As Henrik (and maybe others) have pointed out, the "fresh install" code
>> should make it a link.
>
>> But when you say "not a folder" (and I assume you mean "not a directory"),
>> that isn't the issue. It might be a symlink to /proc/mounts.
>
> So you've decided to become the teacher and not the student, how rude of
> you. I don't normally go around correction such trivial things but in
> your case I will make the exception. When I open my file manager and go
> to my /home/"folder" and right click I get the option to make a new
> "folder". No where is the word "directory" mentioned.

"Directory" is the actual underlying filesystem name for the structure,
and in the command line tools, "directory" is pretty much exclusively
used as the name. That's why the "permissions" character that shows in
a long listing from ls (ls -l) is a "d" for directories, and why the
"mkdir" (MaKeDIRectory), "rmdir" (ReMoveDIRectory), cd (Change
Directory), and pwd (Print Working Directory) commands are named the
way they are.

The name "folder" is all but exclusively used by graphical user
interfaces as the name for what the OS, and the underlying tools, call
a directory. This difference likely came about from Apple copying
Xerox and creating a "desktop metaphor" that included "files" stored in
"folders" to mimic the then paper world of "folders" holding sheets of
paper. Microsoft then copying Apple to create windows also copied the
"folder" naming, and so we have what we have.

And one can often deduce someone's level of skill with the underlying,
non-graphical, command line by what term they normally use when
referring to "directories". If they use "folder" then it is highly
likely they are primarially a GUI user with little to no command line
experience. If they use "directory" then they likely have lots of
experience using the command line tools. This of course is an
imperfect predictor.

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

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From: Jim...@disposable.invalid (Jimmy Johnson)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.slackware
Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2023 23:18:13 -0700
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 by: Jimmy Johnson - Sun, 26 Mar 2023 06:18 UTC

On 03/25/2023 09:21 PM, Rich wrote:

> "Directory" is the actual underlying filesystem name for the structure,
> and in the command line tools, "directory" is pretty much exclusively
> used as the name. That's why the "permissions" character that shows in
> a long listing from ls (ls -l) is a "d" for directories, and why the
> "mkdir" (MaKeDIRectory), "rmdir" (ReMoveDIRectory), cd (Change
> Directory), and pwd (Print Working Directory) commands are named the
> way they are.

You have not proven my use of files and folders was incorrect. Nothing I
said was wrong and I don't need your lesson to run Slackware as a matter
of fact most of what I do with Slackware I do from a chroot and I've
been using cli for a long long time.
--
Jimmy Johnson

Alien-19-Linux - AMD A8-7600 at sda11
Registered Linux User #380263

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

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 by: Rich - Sun, 26 Mar 2023 15:50 UTC

Jimmy Johnson <Jimmy@disposable.invalid> wrote:
> On 03/25/2023 09:21 PM, Rich wrote:
>
>> "Directory" is the actual underlying filesystem name for the
>> structure, and in the command line tools, "directory" is pretty much
>> exclusively used as the name. That's why the "permissions"
>> character that shows in a long listing from ls (ls -l) is a "d" for
>> directories, and why the "mkdir" (MaKeDIRectory), "rmdir"
>> (ReMoveDIRectory), cd (Change Directory), and pwd (Print Working
>> Directory) commands are named the way they are.
>
> You have not proven my use of files and folders was incorrect.

Did I say anywhere in my post that you were wrong?

> Nothing I said was wrong and I don't need your lesson to run
> Slackware as a matter of fact most of what I do with Slackware I do
> from a chroot and I've been using cli for a long long time.

Then you are a member of the minority set for which using 'directory'
or 'folder' is an inaccurate way to predict CLI usage experience.
Which was way I included the final sentence stating that such was not a
perfect predictor.

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

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Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
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 by: Martin Schöön - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 09:43 UTC

Den 2023-03-16 skrev Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com>:
> Den 2023-03-16 skrev Henrik Carlqvist <Henrik.Carlqvist@deadspam.com>:
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:16:21 -0400, bad sector wrote:
>>> The idea would be that NOTHING would get installed that wasn't
>>> *directly or indirectly*
>>
>> There are other Linux distributions which have different kinds of package
>> management solutions which includes dependency resolution. Slackware
>> package management does not have dependency resoltion. If you think you
>> know what you are doing you can manually select packages during
>> installation but the recomended way to install is to do a full install.
>>
>< large snip >
>>
>> other package which needs to be recompiled will also be provided from
>> Slackware.
>>
>> regards Henrik
>
> Isn't Salix supposed to have dependency resolution? Any thoughts on
> that?
>
> /Martin (used to Debian, curious about Slackware)

I wanted to try out Salix but as I want to use it with full disk
encryption it was put on hold. Then I learned about Slint which
builds on Salix and has an installer that does the disk encryption for
you. I installed Slint on a virtual machine (Qemu) and the installer
worked just fine including encryption.

So now I have the opportunity to try out Gslapt and its dependency
resolution. It is work in progress. Some packages provide Gslapt with
the information needed to install missing dependencies. Other packages
miss this information.

I also test Flatpak. It works but consumes disk space like there is no
tomorrow. Disclaimer: I have only done really simple testing.

/Martin

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

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 by: mau...@smaus.org - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 11:47 UTC

On 2023-04-08, Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com> wrote:
> Den 2023-03-16 skrev Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com>:
>> Den 2023-03-16 skrev Henrik Carlqvist <Henrik.Carlqvist@deadspam.com>:
>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:16:21 -0400, bad sector wrote:
>>>> The idea would be that NOTHING would get installed that wasn't
>>>> *directly or indirectly*
>>>
> worked just fine including encryption.
>
> So now I have the opportunity to try out Gslapt and its dependency
> resolution. It is work in progress. Some packages provide Gslapt with
> the information needed to install missing dependencies. Other packages
> miss this information.
>
> I also test Flatpak. It works but consumes disk space like there is no
> tomorrow. Disclaimer: I have only done really simple testing.
>
> /Martin

Encryptation is bunk. All the utilities are backdoored to hell.

--
greymausg@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

<643166a4$1@news.ausics.net>

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Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
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 by: noel - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 13:05 UTC

On Sat, 08 Apr 2023 11:47:31 +0000, maus wrote:

| Encryptation is bunk. All the utilities are backdoored to hell.

greymaus... a name from a lifetime ago (if you are him)... from the chat
net run by that scott scanner fella, you always were a one-liner guy

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

<slrnu32rm3.788.maus@smaus.org>

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Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
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 by: mau...@smaus.org - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 14:40 UTC

On 2023-04-08, noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Apr 2023 11:47:31 +0000, maus wrote:
>
>| Encryptation is bunk. All the utilities are backdoored to hell.
>
> greymaus... a name from a lifetime ago (if you are him)... from the chat
> net run by that scott scanner fella, you always were a one-liner guy
>

If you want to dig deeper, it was many years after the unpleasantness
that it was admitted that Enigma had been broken, for the meantime, a
company in Schwytz (I think) had been selling the machines to small
countries (including .ie) under the understanding that their messages
would be secure.

By encrypting yoor messages, all you are doing is indicating that the
messages contain things that you do not want others to read, and that
allows the police to concentrate on encrypted messages .

It you are using encryptation to hide kiddie porn, I suggest that you
borrow a gun, go down the garden and do the right thing.

Back to slack on an old laptop, and loving it. Debian was almost as
good, but the slope to W****** was beyond that.

--
greymausg@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

<u0rusc$19v8v$1@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
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 by: Rich - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 14:48 UTC

maus@smaus.org wrote:
> By encrypting yoor messages, all you are doing is indicating that the
> messages contain things that you do not want others to read, and that
> allows the police to concentrate on encrypted messages .

Which is the very reason why the "encrypt everything" crowd argues that
everyone should encrypt everything all the time.

In a world where no one encrypts, except when they have a message they
want to keep hidden, then yes, an "encrypted" message stands out as a
big red flag of "look here, there is something hidden".

But, instead, in a world where *everything*, no matter how mundane, is
encrypted, no one encrypted message stands out as any more 'special'
from all the other encrypted messages. Leaving the "police" with no
hint as to which particular messages to "concentrate upon".

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

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Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
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 by: noel - Fri, 14 Apr 2023 11:59 UTC

On Sat, 08 Apr 2023 14:40:11 +0000, maus wrote:

> On 2023-04-08, noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> wrote:
>> On Sat, 08 Apr 2023 11:47:31 +0000, maus wrote:
>>
>>| Encryptation is bunk. All the utilities are backdoored to hell.
>>
>> greymaus... a name from a lifetime ago (if you are him)... from the
>> chat net run by that scott scanner fella, you always were a one-liner
>> guy
>>
>>
> If you want to dig deeper, it was many years after the unpleasantness
> that it was admitted that Enigma had been broken, for the meantime, a
> company in Schwytz (I think) had been selling the machines to small
> countries (including .ie) under the understanding that their messages
> would be secure.
>
> By encrypting yoor messages, all you are doing is indicating that the
> messages contain things that you do not want others to read, and that
> allows the police to concentrate on encrypted messages .
>
> It you are using encryptation to hide kiddie porn, I suggest that you
> borrow a gun, go down the garden and do the right thing.
>
> Back to slack on an old laptop, and loving it. Debian was almost as
> good, but the slope to W****** was beyond that.

In this country, it matters not, because your messages are private,
unless a court issues a warant to a LEA to invade that privacy, in which
case encryption doesn't set off must-read-flags, because in such cases,
you are a target, a POI, and /all/ your comms is subject to forensic
level scrutiny, pedos, drug dealers and no doubt terrorists use coded
plain text messages all the time, although in a different job these days,
I've worked with our Federal Police in my role to apply a few such
monitorings, half of them are too stupid to know encryption exists, but
even then, decyphering the unencrpyted mumbo jumbo often comes too late,
then there are the journos, the politicians, the whistleblowers, the
justice officers, and yes - the spooks, all use encryption with any
sensitive matter.

encryption does not mean you are an offender, it means you value your
privacy. this bullshit that gets spruked that "if you got nothing to hide
dont encrypt, you got nothing to worry about" is typcial politican
bullshit, its the same dumb arse crap they come up with like, "if you
object to mandatory internet filtering/cencorship" (pushed by teh
religious minorities in govt) you support pedos and drug kings.. jesus h
christ, these cunts really have no idea that nobody beleives that
garbage, only pollies and those with an IQ of a polliticians show size
might.

I for one never used encrypted emails until Snowden, when it was wide
scale knowledge to the world, that non US citizens, as well as US
citizens, become a POI when using it, a few of us would often send
hundreds of messages a day with utter bullshit in it, just to amuse the
USA's NSA, we even sent random outputs from /dev/null into a plain
unencrypted email, also, for their (or is that /our/) amusement, but its
ok, I know i'm on their watchlist, because I'm a linux user who has over
the years frequented Linux Journal's website, but since I don't have any
plans to visit the USA, I have no fucks to give.

I use encryption daily however in many aspects, like SIP, backups,
sensitive info on flash drives, portable drives, insecure laptops etc etc
etc.
and always will :)

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

<643942bd$1@news.ausics.net>

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Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
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 by: noel - Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:10 UTC

On Sat, 08 Apr 2023 14:48:44 +0000, Rich wrote:

>
> But, instead, in a world where *everything*, no matter how mundane, is
> encrypted, no one encrypted message stands out as any more 'special'
> from all the other encrypted messages. Leaving the "police" with no
> hint as to which particular messages to "concentrate upon".

You're using a polticians 2000's playbook excuse, this is 2023.
LEA's concentrate on /individual targets/ so /all/ their messages and
emails are of interest, if a new target appears because of that, if the
warrant scope permits they are included, if not, back the judge they go
to then make that secondary a new target, or, a named person of the
original warrant - at least thats how it works in countries that value
their citizens privacy and don't treat them all like suspects, of course,
I wouldnt expect those from the U.S.A, China, North Korea or Peru to
grasp that fact :)

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

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Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
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 by: Rich - Fri, 14 Apr 2023 13:04 UTC

noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Apr 2023 14:48:44 +0000, Rich wrote:
>
>
>>
>> But, instead, in a world where *everything*, no matter how mundane, is
>> encrypted, no one encrypted message stands out as any more 'special'
>> from all the other encrypted messages. Leaving the "police" with no
>> hint as to which particular messages to "concentrate upon".
>
> You're using a polticians 2000's playbook excuse, this is 2023.
> LEA's concentrate on /individual targets/ so /all/ their messages and
> emails are of interest, if a new target appears because of that, if the
> warrant scope permits they are included, if not, back the judge they go
> to then make that secondary a new target, or, a named person of the
> original warrant - at least thats how it works in countries that value
> their citizens privacy and don't treat them all like suspects, of course,
> I wouldnt expect those from the U.S.A, China, North Korea or Peru to
> grasp that fact :)

You convieently left off the context to which my response replied, so
you could hallucinate a different meaning and respond to a different
topic. Here's that context you left off:

>maus@smaus.org wrote:
>> By encrypting yoor messages, all you are doing is indicating that
>> the messages contain things that you do not want others to read, and
>> that allows the police to concentrate on encrypted messages .

That original context was talking about situations where the police are
not already targeting you as an individual, yet choose to begin
targeting you *because you are one of the few encrypted messages* they
see, and the "why is this one encrypted" curioursity puts you on their
radar. So they choose to "look" because "well, if you are encrypting,
that /must be/ because there is something there to hide".

Your response is topical for "the police are already targeting you for
any multitude of other reasons -- of course they are going to try to
decrypt your comms", which is not the context of my response at all.

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

<slrnu3ikqe.14hc.maus@dmany.org>

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Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
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 by: maus - Fri, 14 Apr 2023 13:21 UTC

On 2023-04-14, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> wrote:
>> On Sat, 08 Apr 2023 14:48:44 +0000, Rich wrote:
>>
>>
>

I repeat. Encrypting anything is a waste of time. It just shows that you
are trying to hide something. With that, VPM is also a waste of time,
unless you have a direct link (no local nexus on which your data
travels). Research the people who developed the encryptation, they would
not be alowed to develope anything that has not trapdoors. I do not know
any country where completely free communications happen.

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

<slrnu4ulpk.ofm.syl@elvira.therockgarden.ca>

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From: syl...@therockgarden.ca (Sylvain Robitaille)
Subject: Re: How do *you* install Slackware
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 by: Sylvain Robitaille - Mon, 1 May 2023 06:07 UTC

Late response to this, but I rather like the thread, and wishing I
hadn't missed it when it was fresh, I thought I'd go ahead and follow
up ...

On 2023-03-14, Joseph Rosevear wrote:

> OK, this is a survey. Pick all that apply:
>
> 1. I download the CD iso images, burn them to CDs, boot the
> first CD, and install.
> 2. Same as above, but download a single DVD iso image and burn
> to a DVD.

I've done both of these, but most often, in the days when there was a
Slackware Store, I bought the CD (or DVD) sets and used those.

> 3. I download the CD iso images and use them directly, booting
> the first image using Grub.
> 4. Same as above, but download a single DVD iso image.

I've never used grub on a Slackware system ...

> 5. I clone an existing installation using rsync, then modify
> it as needed using patches and scripts.
> 6. I never install, I upgrade.

Neither of these methods ever struck me as a good idea. Installing a
new OS version on a system is an opportunity to clean out some cruft
from past installations, in my opinion, to start again with a clean
slate (although I do preserve home directories and locally installed
software across versions, wherever possible).

> 7. Some other way.

I make a local clone of a mirror of the distribution (to which I also
keep up with package updates). I PXE-boot the target computer (using
gpxe on a USB key or even a floppy disk, if the target system can't PXE
boot of its own accord), and from there I install from NFS. I did for a
while keep "tag" files for my system installations, and the truth is
that works great to minimize human intervention when you don't want a
"full" installation, but it was too much work to keep the tag files up
to date between Slackware versions. For the small number of systems I
have, and the smaller number that I upgrade to the latest stable version
at any time, it just winds up being simpler to select from the package
menus.

The PXE-boot to NFS installation is really a very handy way to do the
installations. No CDs or DVDs to swap in and out, and it goes rather
quickly.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille syl@therockgarden.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

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 by: noel - Sun, 21 May 2023 07:47 UTC

On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 13:04:07 +0000, Rich wrote:

>
>
> You convieently left off the context to which my response replied, so
> you could hallucinate a different meaning and respond to a different
> topic. Here's that context you left off:
>
No, I deliberately trim, I have done that 98% of every post I make.

>>maus@smaus.org wrote:
>>> By encrypting yoor messages, all you are doing is indicating that the
>>> messages contain things that you do not want others to read, and that
>>> allows the police to concentrate on encrypted messages .
>
> That original context was talking about situations where the police are
> not already targeting you as an individual, yet choose to begin
> targeting you *because you are one of the few encrypted messages* they
> see, and the "why is this one encrypted" curioursity puts you on their
> radar. So they choose to "look" because "well, if you are encrypting,
> that /must be/ because there is something there to hide".
>

Again, you have lumbered everyone into the same basket, a dangerous thing
to do, on such a pathetic reasoning, its like the Australian comms
minister 10 years ago when he tried to introduce mandatory internet
filtering, "anyone who disagreed by have been a pedo or supporter of such
people" I mean seriously, that shows how fucked in hte head he was, he'd
make a great pollie in China or Russia. (funny that, at next election he
was ousted - cant imagine why :)


> Your response is topical for "the police are already targeting you for
> any multitude of other reasons -- of course they are going to try to
> decrypt your comms", which is not the context of my response at all.

No, the police in this country don't, we have checks and balances in law,
when our recent metadata retention laws were debated, not even the head
of the aus federal police wanted tracking of every citizens websites
visited because he knew the serious criminal element is few and far
between and average citizen is not one.

of course there were perverted reps from some state police services that
wanted that power, jesus, some proposed having more spying access that
would be greater than ASIO (our version of MI5) has.

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

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 by: noel - Sun, 21 May 2023 08:02 UTC

On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 13:21:18 +0000, maus wrote:

> On 2023-04-14, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>> noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 08 Apr 2023 14:48:44 +0000, Rich wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> I repeat. Encrypting anything is a waste of time. It just shows that you
> are trying to hide something. With that, VPM is also a waste of time,
> unless you have a direct link (no local nexus on which your data
> travels). Research the people who developed the encryptation, they would
> not be alowed to develope anything that has not trapdoors. I do not know
> any country where completely free communications happen.

bullshit, it shows we value our privacy from prying foreign eyes

In my roles I've dealt with LEA's for over 25 years, I often converse
with THEM using GPG, often containing intercepted information, you rather
I send that unencrypted, pffft... their are many reasons for encryption,
but I know people like you will never understand that maus.

But your the sort of person that thinks its OK for journos taking
messages from whistleblowers ending up on a USA watchlist becasue they
used tails, I think its fucking hilarious, and teh dumb cunts are even
today probably still trying to figure out what that encrypted code was I
was sending - well, unless they are reading this thread, then they'll
realise their time was wasted for targeting someone who was not a
terrorist and would have had no links to one that would cause them to
legitimately target someone like me, of course I have no idea if tehy
did, but by all reports from Snowden I and millions like me, may have
been.

Pssst you do realise as a linux user, you too, are, or would have been,
on a watchlist :) might not be a targeted mark, or no fly list but your
on a list none the same.

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

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 by: bad sector - Fri, 2 Jun 2023 21:49 UTC

On 4/8/23 07:47, maus@smaus.org wrote:
> On 2023-04-08, Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Den 2023-03-16 skrev Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com>:
>>> Den 2023-03-16 skrev Henrik Carlqvist <Henrik.Carlqvist@deadspam.com>:
>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:16:21 -0400, bad sector wrote:
>>>>> The idea would be that NOTHING would get installed that wasn't
>>>>> *directly or indirectly*
>>>>
>> worked just fine including encryption.
>>
>> So now I have the opportunity to try out Gslapt and its dependency
>> resolution. It is work in progress. Some packages provide Gslapt with
>> the information needed to install missing dependencies. Other packages
>> miss this information.
>>
>> I also test Flatpak. It works but consumes disk space like there is no
>> tomorrow. Disclaimer: I have only done really simple testing.
>>
>> /Martin
>
> Encryptation is bunk. All the utilities are backdoored to hell.
>
>

Wasn't there a major crew-change in every single security development
cubicle soon after 911?

I kept some old versions, just in case, which I never used :-)

Re: How do *you* install Slackware

<u5o0n5$quoc$1@picilli.eternal-september.org>

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 by: Ferannia - Tue, 6 Jun 2023 19:17 UTC

On 14/04/2023 04.59, noel wrote:
> I know i'm on their watchlist, because I'm a linux user who has over
> the years frequented Linux Journal's website, but since I don't have any
> plans to visit the USA, I have no fucks to give.

Do you really believe long time Linux users are on NSA's watchlist?

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