Does anyone else think it would be useful for VSI to supply and
host HTML versions of the documentation so that you could point
someone directly to a section of the manual without them having
to download the whole manual or having to read an older version
of the documentation online at a third party site ?

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 10/2/2021 12:42 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> Does anyone else think it would be useful for VSI to supply and
> host HTML versions of the documentation so that you could point
> someone directly to a section of the manual without them having
> to download the whole manual or having to read an older version
> of the documentation online at a third party site ?
>
> Simon.
>

Anyone interested should have downloaded all the manuals. Doesn't take
much storage.

As for me, I miss paper, where corners can be folded down, notes
written, paper clips for going back and forth between pages, ...

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On Saturday, October 2, 2021 at 3:19:28 PM UTC-4, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 10/2/2021 12:42 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> > Does anyone else think it would be useful for VSI to supply and
> > host HTML versions of the documentation so that you could point
> > someone directly to a section of the manual without them having
> > to download the whole manual or having to read an older version
> > of the documentation online at a third party site ?
> >
> > Simon.
> >
> Anyone interested should have downloaded all the manuals. Doesn't take
> much storage.
>
> As for me, I miss paper, where corners can be folded down, notes
> written, paper clips for going back and forth between pages, ...
>
> --
> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
> 170 Grimplin Road
> Vanderbilt, PA 15486

I have extra V6.2 and V7.x manuals around, any requests?

Dan

On 10/2/2021 12:42 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> Does anyone else think it would be useful for VSI to supply and
> host HTML versions of the documentation so that you could point
> someone directly to a section of the manual without them having
> to download the whole manual or having to read an older version
> of the documentation online at a third party site ?

Online HTML has become the industry standard - IBM, Oracle,
Microsoft etc. all do it.

VSI should also do it.

Arne

On Sat, 02 Oct 2021 16:39:03 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

> On 10/2/2021 12:42 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> Does anyone else think it would be useful for VSI to supply and host
>> HTML versions of the documentation so that you could point someone
>> directly to a section of the manual without them having to download the
>> whole manual or having to read an older version of the documentation
>> online at a third party site ?
>
> Online HTML has become the industry standard - IBM, Oracle,
> Microsoft etc. all do it.
>
> VSI should also do it.

I write portable documents in TeXinfo now. PDF and HTML both easy.

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Den 2021-10-02 kl. 18:42, skrev Simon Clubley:

> Does anyone else think it would be useful for VSI to supply and
> host HTML versions of the documentation so that you could point
> someone directly to a section of the manual without them having
> to download the whole manual or having to read an older version
> of the documentation online at a third party site ?
>
> Simon.
>

I kind of like the page oriented style of PDF docs. If there is
something I'd need to sit down and read properly, I can easily
print 10-20 pages and get an easy to read version.

> without them having to download the whole manual...

What is the problem? I just tried a few of the PDF files from VSI,
and it is 1-3 sec per manual, more or less instant. The Cobol Ref
Manual (6,7 MB) took approx 1 sec.

Yes, HTML has some good sides, such as cross linking between different
parts of the docs, but then you have to write/design your docs that way
from the start. But I do not think this particular question is one of
the major ones for VSI to care about right now.

Jan-Erik.

On 10/3/21 3:48 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2021-10-02 kl. 18:42, skrev Simon Clubley:
>
>> Does anyone else think it would be useful for VSI to supply and
>> host HTML versions of the documentation so that you could point
>> someone directly to a section of the manual without them having
>> to download the whole manual or having to read an older version
>> of the documentation online at a third party site ?
>>
>> Simon.
>>
>
> I kind of like the page oriented style of PDF docs. If there is
> something I'd need to sit down and read properly, I can easily
> print 10-20 pages and get an easy to read version.
>
> > without them having to download the whole manual...
>
> What is the problem? I just tried a few of the PDF files from VSI,
> and it is 1-3 sec per manual, more or less instant. The Cobol Ref
> Manual (6,7 MB) took approx 1 sec.
>
> Yes, HTML has some good sides, such as cross linking between different
> parts of the docs, but then you have to write/design your docs that way
> from the start. But I do not think this particular question is one of
> the major ones for VSI to care about right now.

It's not an either/or situation. Professional tech writers will most
likely be using XML in a DocBook schema, which can readily be
transformed to PDF, HTML, and numerous other formats. The anchor tags
could be automatically generated for section headings or even paragraphs
to provide the direct links that Simon was asking about. And yes, it
would be nice to have such links.

Den 2021-10-03 kl. 15:12, skrev Craig A. Berry:
>
> On 10/3/21 3:48 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2021-10-02 kl. 18:42, skrev Simon Clubley:
>>
>>> Does anyone else think it would be useful for VSI to supply and
>>> host HTML versions of the documentation so that you could point
>>> someone directly to a section of the manual without them having
>>> to download the whole manual or having to read an older version
>>> of the documentation online at a third party site ?
>>>
>>> Simon.
>>>
>>
>> I kind of like the page oriented style of PDF docs. If there is
>> something I'd need to sit down and read properly, I can easily
>> print 10-20 pages and get an easy to read version.
>>
>>  > without them having to download the whole manual...
>>
>> What is the problem? I just tried a few of the PDF files from VSI,
>> and it is 1-3 sec per manual, more or less instant. The Cobol Ref
>> Manual (6,7 MB) took approx 1 sec.
>>
>> Yes, HTML has some good sides, such as cross linking between different
>> parts of the docs, but then you have to write/design your docs that way
>> from the start. But I do not think this particular question is one of
>> the major ones for VSI to care about right now.
>
> It's not an either/or situation.  Professional tech writers will most
> likely be using XML in a DocBook schema, which can readily be
> transformed to PDF, HTML, and numerous other formats.  The anchor tags
> could be automatically generated for section headings or even paragraphs
> to provide the direct links that Simon was asking about.  And yes, it
> would be nice to have such links.
>

I have not anything specific against HTML, only it if takes time from
other projects from VSI. In that case, the PDFs are just fine.

I just did not understood what the problem was with downloading
a coupe of MBs today.

In article <sjca7h$ko6$1@dont-email.me>, "Craig A. Berry"
<craigberry@nospam.mac.com> writes:

> It's not an either/or situation. Professional tech writers will most
> likely be using XML in a DocBook schema, which can readily be
> transformed to PDF, HTML, and numerous other formats.

Sort of like DEC Document?

On 2021-10-02 16:42:33 +0000, Simon Clubley said:

> Does anyone else think it would be useful for VSI to supply and host
> HTML versions of the documentation so that you could point someone
> directly to a section of the manual without them having to download the
> whole manual or having to read an older version of the documentation
> online at a third party site ?

There are many larger issues around information design at VSI, HTML
being one of many details involved.

I'd rather have updated doc in those PDFs, and examples and cookbooks, for now.

Further along and closer toward V9.3 or so, and particularly as part of
work toward better a better information design for VSI itself and its
documentation, sure.

Oh and BTW, you can specify a PDF page in a PDF in a hyperlink in many
tools. For example:

https://vmssoftware.com/docs/VSI_USERS_MANUAL.pdf#page=23

The PDF-generation tooling that VSI uses here could (preferably) make
that page numbering match reality and not contend with the archaic
DEC-style page numbering scheme, or (less preferably, and somewhat less
inconveniently) could make the page number in the generated PDF itself
into a hyperlink, but here we are.

--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC

On Sunday, October 3, 2021 at 10:54:52 AM UTC+13, Bob Eager wrote:
>
> I write portable documents in TeXinfo now. PDF and HTML both easy.

Markdown seems to be very popular nowadays. Doesn’t take much skill to write, and you can leave all the layout to CSS. And it is easy to produce PDF and HTML. And man pages too.

Me, I’ve actually started writing man pages directly using groff_man macros. ;)

On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 16:05:30 -0700, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> On Sunday, October 3, 2021 at 10:54:52 AM UTC+13, Bob Eager wrote:
>>
>> I write portable documents in TeXinfo now. PDF and HTML both easy.
>
> Markdown seems to be very popular nowadays.

Oh, I use that for smaller documents that ship with things I write.
Readable without any software! However it is rather limited compared to
TeXinfo.

You can take a look at some typical TeXinfo output here:

https://www.ml1.org.uk/doc.html

> Me, I’ve actually started writing man pages directly using groff_man
> macros. ;)

I do that too. But then I started using nroff in about 1975...

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wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:03:04 PM UTC+13, Bob Eager wrote:
> You can take a look at some typical TeXinfo output here:

[Link to non-free docs deleted]

In article <be2ba23e-63b3-402f-bce3-4a8dfab50274n@googlegroups.com>,
=?UTF-8?Q?Lawrence_D=E2=80=99Oliveiro?= <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> writes:

> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:03:04 PM UTC+13, Bob Eager wrote:
> > You can take a look at some typical TeXinfo output here:
>
> [Link to non-free docs deleted]

What is the purpose of the above post?

On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 17:27:45 -0700, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:03:04 PM UTC+13, Bob Eager wrote:
>> You can take a look at some typical TeXinfo output here:
>
> [Link to non-free docs deleted]

Non free? They are all free. What made you think otherwise?

--
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On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 06:20:07 +0000, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
wrote:

> In article <be2ba23e-63b3-402f-bce3-4a8dfab50274n@googlegroups.com>,
> =?UTF-8?Q?Lawrence_D=E2=80=99Oliveiro?= <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:03:04 PM UTC+13, Bob Eager wrote:
>> > You can take a look at some typical TeXinfo output here:
>>
>> [Link to non-free docs deleted]
>
> What is the purpose of the above post?

I don't know. He doesn't seem to have a clue. Unless he's moaning about a
copyright notice.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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VSI has now published OpenVMS documentation in both PDF and HTML format.

See announcement at: https://forum.vmssoftware.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=235

See documentation at: https://docs.vmssoftware.com/

Volker.

Den 2021-10-22 kl. 13:33, skrev Volker Halle:
> VSI has now published OpenVMS documentation in both PDF and HTML format.
>
> See announcement at: https://forum.vmssoftware.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=235
>
> See documentation at: https://docs.vmssoftware.com/
>
> Volker.
>

Nice! With clickable TOC and "copy to clipboard" on code examples...

On 2021-10-22, Volker Halle <volker_halle@hotmail.com> wrote:
> VSI has now published OpenVMS documentation in both PDF and HTML format.
>
> See announcement at: https://forum.vmssoftware.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=235
>
> See documentation at: https://docs.vmssoftware.com/
>

Ok, now _that_ is nice, and the HTML is broken up into sections much
more logically than the HP/HPE HTML. :-)

Clearly I wasn't the only one asking for this...

I wonder if VSI would consider packaging up both the HTML and PDF into
a single downloadable archive so we can work with them locally, much
like HP/HPE used to do ?

BTW, those fonts in the HTML are very nicely readable for me.

The only slight improvement would be to place code references such as

IO$_TTY_PORT!IO$M_LT_CONNECT

inside a monospaced font, but the fonts are readable as-is.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Volker Halle wrote:

> VSI has now published OpenVMS documentation in both PDF and HTML format.
> See documentation at:https://docs.vmssoftware.com/

Nicely done ...

Simon Clubley schrieb am 22.10.2021 um 14:21:
> [...]
>
> The only slight improvement would be to place code references such as
>
> IO$_TTY_PORT!IO$M_LT_CONNECT
>
> inside a monospaced font, but the fonts are readable as-is.

In <https://forum.vmssoftware.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=235>, Marty Stu asked:

> In case you find any issues with the content or the portal, please use this thread to report them.

"this thread" refers to the vmssoftware forum...

Hans.

In article <skuacc$h8i$1@dont-email.me>, Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> writes:
>On 2021-10-22, Volker Halle <volker_halle@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> VSI has now published OpenVMS documentation in both PDF and HTML format.
>>
>> See announcement at: https://forum.vmssoftware.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=235
>>
>> See documentation at: https://docs.vmssoftware.com/
>>
>
>Ok, now _that_ is nice, and the HTML is broken up into sections much
>more logically than the HP/HPE HTML. :-)
>
>Clearly I wasn't the only one asking for this...
>
>I wonder if VSI would consider packaging up both the HTML and PDF into
>a single downloadable archive so we can work with them locally, much
>like HP/HPE used to do ?
>
>BTW, those fonts in the HTML are very nicely readable for me.
>
>The only slight improvement would be to place code references such as
>
> IO$_TTY_PORT!IO$M_LT_CONNECT
>
>inside a monospaced font, but the fonts are readable as-is.

Wow! Something I can agree upon with Simon!

--
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I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 10:01:36 AM UTC-4, Andy Burns wrote:
> Volker Halle wrote:
>
> > VSI has now published OpenVMS documentation in both PDF and HTML format.
> > See documentation at:https://docs.vmssoftware.com/
>
> Nicely done ...

I notice the Utility Routines Manual doesn't include descriptions for BCK_OPT_K_GPT
and BCK_OPT_K_ZLIB options in the BACKUP API section.