On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 7:28:13 AM UTC+13, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> ... I tried EVE/TPU/whatever. Didn't work.

After suffering the loss of TECO and putting up with EDT, TPU was a welcome relief. I started with the source code for EVE, and customized it heavily. I called my version “PEEVE”.

On 10/25/2021 4:33 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 10/25/2021 3:54 PM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>> In article <sl6m42$4v0$1@dont-email.me>, Stephen Hoffman
>> <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> writes:
>>> EDT was long ago considered deprecated and ~immutable, and now it's
>>> apparently not.
>>
>> Much faster than TPU: no cursor slow motion, doesn't read the whole 1-GB
>> file if it just needs to change the top few lines. Probably easier to
>> script and run in batch.
>
> EVE/TPU is actually very powerful for scripting.
>
> Arne
>

When I need to change "ABC" to "XYZ", EDT is very useful ...

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 10/25/2021 9:25 PM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 3:47:23 PM UTC-4, Dave Froble wrote:
>> On 10/25/2021 2:28 PM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> But it does a lot more than that. SET DEFAULT had 2 or 3 silly bugs that I figured wouldn't take long to fix.
>> What bugs? I've never seen any.
>
> I posted on earlier in the thread. I think it's even mentioned in the docs once, but I don't recall where and doubt I can find it.
>
> Here is my summary of them:
>
> The DCL program SET DEFAULT has two problems with nested logical
> names:

Simple solution, do not use nested logical names ...

If you plan on pushing boundaries, expect to find boundaries ...

I tend to use the KISS principal ...

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 2:30:30 AM UTC+13, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> This was at the same time when your only had 640K of
> memory.

Both limits are just as old. But 640K was fixed ... eventually ... slowly ... painfully.

Whereas Microsoft still seem to believe that 26 drive letters ought to be enough for anybody.

On 26/10/2021 8:49, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 10/25/2021 4:33 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 10/25/2021 3:54 PM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>>> In article <sl6m42$4v0$1@dont-email.me>, Stephen Hoffman
>>> <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> writes:
>>>> EDT was long ago considered deprecated and ~immutable, and now it's
>>>> apparently not.
>>>
>>> Much faster than TPU: no cursor slow motion, doesn't read the whole 1-GB
>>> file if it just needs to change the top few lines.  Probably easier to
>>> script and run in batch.
>>
>> EVE/TPU is actually very powerful for scripting.
>>
>> Arne
>>
>
> When I need to change "ABC" to "XYZ", EDT is very useful ...
>

But when you want to replace "ABC" with "XYZ" in every line containing "UVW" you need TPU "Learn" capability

--
Mike R.
Home: http://alpha.mike-r.com/
QOTD: http://alpha.mike-r.com/qotd.php
No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
Recommended reading: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#before
and: http://alpha.mike-r.com/jargon/T/top-post.html
Missile address: N31.7624/E34.9691

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 4:52:38 AM UTC-4, Henry Crun wrote:
> On 26/10/2021 8:49, Dave Froble wrote:
> > On 10/25/2021 4:33 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> >> On 10/25/2021 3:54 PM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> >>> In article <sl6m42$4v0$1...@dont-email.me>, Stephen Hoffman
> >>> <seao...@hoffmanlabs.invalid> writes:
> >>>> EDT was long ago considered deprecated and ~immutable, and now it's
> >>>> apparently not.
> >>>
> >>> Much faster than TPU: no cursor slow motion, doesn't read the whole 1-GB
> >>> file if it just needs to change the top few lines. Probably easier to
> >>> script and run in batch.
> >>
> >> EVE/TPU is actually very powerful for scripting.
> >>
> >> Arne
> >>
> >
> > When I need to change "ABC" to "XYZ", EDT is very useful ...
> >
> But when you want to replace "ABC" with "XYZ" in every line containing "UVW" you need TPU "Learn" capability
>

Nope. EDT can do it! (ED is EDIT/EDT/.)

$ ED B.B
1 ABC
*TYPE WH
1 ABC
2 ABC UVW
3 ABC
4 ABC UVW
5 ABC UVW
6 ABC
[EOB]
*S/ABC/XYZ/ ALL 'UVW'
2 XYZ UVW
4 XYZ UVW
5 XYZ UVW
3 substitutions
*TYPE WH
1 ABC
2 XYZ UVW
3 ABC
4 XYZ UVW
5 XYZ UVW
6 ABC
[EOB]
*

> --
> Mike R.
> Home: http://alpha.mike-r.com/
> QOTD: http://alpha.mike-r.com/qotd.php
> No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
> Recommended reading: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#before
> and: http://alpha.mike-r.com/jargon/T/top-post.html
> Missile address: N31.7624/E34.9691

AEF

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 1:59:06 AM UTC-4, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 10/25/2021 9:25 PM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 3:47:23 PM UTC-4, Dave Froble wrote:
> >> On 10/25/2021 2:28 PM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> But it does a lot more than that. SET DEFAULT had 2 or 3 silly bugs that I figured wouldn't take long to fix.
> >> What bugs? I've never seen any.
> >
> > I posted on earlier in the thread. I think it's even mentioned in the docs once, but I don't recall where and doubt I can find it.
> >
> > Here is my summary of them:
> >
> > The DCL program SET DEFAULT has two problems with nested logical
> > names:
> Simple solution, do not use nested logical names ...

Sure. Just don't use SYS$MANAGER and the like. Right. Actually the problem doesn't affect all nested logical names. No matter. They fixed it anyway. Can't get simpler than that!

Better yet, just get TO.COM! It has way more than just dealing with nested logical names. I hope to release the latest version sometime in next couple of weeks or so. (The link to the version presently online is broken.)

>
> If you plan on pushing boundaries, expect to find boundaries ...

???

>
> I tend to use the KISS principal ...
> --
> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
> 170 Grimplin Road
> Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 10:48:26 PM UTC-4, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 5:28:47 PM UTC+13, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > When was EDT updated to allow more than 22 lines? IDK, but it's made me happy!
> “EDT” and “happy” were never words I considered using in the same sentence ...

I understand. Use the right tool for the job, I say. For me that is usually EDT.

One thing I really like about EDT is the key definitions. You can see them and change them without needing to recompile and make a new huge TPU section file (IIRC the TPU drill). Say you take a long vacation. You come back and can't remember some of your key definitions. What are you going to do? In EDT you can look them up very quickly. I don't recall such a feature for EVE. But that was many years ago.

One thing I really like about EVE is box editing. So if I need that, I use EVE. The learn feature is pretty cool, but again, you can't see what it is if you forget later. Certainly good for a repetitive one-shot task though. Or you can write down what it is!

If EVE or LSEDIT some other editor work for you, great! For my purposes it's like using a blow torch to light a cigarette. But some of you need a blow torch. That's fine with me. You've got it!

On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 9:25:10 PM UTC-4, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 3:47:23 PM UTC-4, Dave Froble wrote:
> > On 10/25/2021 2:28 PM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > But it does a lot more than that. SET DEFAULT had 2 or 3 silly bugs that I figured wouldn't take long to fix.
> > What bugs? I've never seen any.
> I posted on earlier in the thread. I think it's even mentioned in the docs once, but I don't recall where and doubt I can find it.

I now seem to recall it was mentioned in one of the ECO release notes. It think the notes also said it would be fixed in a future version of VMS. Well, they were right!

[...]
> > --
> > David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
> > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
> > DFE Ultralights, Inc.
> > 170 Grimplin Road
> > Vanderbilt, PA 15486
> AEF
AEF

On 10/26/2021 5:49 AM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 4:52:38 AM UTC-4, Henry Crun wrote:
>> On 26/10/2021 8:49, Dave Froble wrote:
>>> On 10/25/2021 4:33 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 10/25/2021 3:54 PM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>>>>> In article <sl6m42$4v0$1...@dont-email.me>, Stephen Hoffman
>>>>> <seao...@hoffmanlabs.invalid> writes:
>>>>>> EDT was long ago considered deprecated and ~immutable, and now it's
>>>>>> apparently not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Much faster than TPU: no cursor slow motion, doesn't read the whole 1-GB
>>>>> file if it just needs to change the top few lines. Probably easier to
>>>>> script and run in batch.
>>>>
>>>> EVE/TPU is actually very powerful for scripting.
>>>
>>> When I need to change "ABC" to "XYZ", EDT is very useful ...
>>>
>> But when you want to replace "ABC" with "XYZ" in every line containing "UVW" you need TPU "Learn" capability
>>
>
> Nope. EDT can do it! (ED is EDIT/EDT/.)
>
> $ ED B.B
> 1 ABC
> *TYPE WH
> 1 ABC
> 2 ABC UVW
> 3 ABC
> 4 ABC UVW
> 5 ABC UVW
> 6 ABC
> [EOB]
> *S/ABC/XYZ/ ALL 'UVW'
> 2 XYZ UVW
> 4 XYZ UVW
> 5 XYZ UVW
> 3 substitutions
> *TYPE WH
> 1 ABC
> 2 XYZ UVW
> 3 ABC
> 4 XYZ UVW
> 5 XYZ UVW
> 6 ABC
> [EOB]

Ha. We got an EDT wizard among us.

:-)

But still TPU is really a fullblown programming
language with procedures, if statement, loop
statement etc., so I will maintain the original
claim that it is good for scripting.

Arne

On 10/26/2021 2:17 AM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 2:30:30 AM UTC+13, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> This was at the same time when your only had 640K of
>> memory.
>
> Both limits are just as old. But 640K was fixed ... eventually ... slowly ... painfully.
>
> Whereas Microsoft still seem to believe that 26 drive letters ought to be enough for anybody.

The English language decided on 26 letters.

The last Windows server version that required a unique drive letter per
disk was NT 4.0 Server (released 1996, end of support 2002/2004). All
newer Windows versions (2003, 2008, 2008R2, 2012, 2012R2, 2016, 2019
and 2022) supports volume mount points.

Arne

On 10/26/21 9:41 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 10/26/2021 2:17 AM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 2:30:30 AM UTC+13, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>> This was at the same time when your only had 640K of
>>> memory.
>>
>> Both limits are just as old. But 640K was fixed ... eventually ...
>> slowly ... painfully.
>>
>> Whereas Microsoft still seem to believe that 26 drive letters ought to
>> be enough for anybody.
>
> The English language decided on 26 letters.
>
> The last Windows server version that required a unique drive letter per
> disk was NT 4.0 Server (released 1996, end of support 2002/2004). All
> newer Windows versions (2003, 2008, 2008R2, 2012, 2012R2, 2016, 2019
> and 2022) supports volume mount points.
>

And, as is usually the case when people look back on the way things
used to be they target one thing while missing all of the contributing
factors. When there were only 26 drive letters (24 if you accept that
two were owned by floppies) how many physical drive could one actually
attach to a PC system?

bill

On 10/26/2021 10:07 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 10/26/21 9:41 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 10/26/2021 2:17 AM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 2:30:30 AM UTC+13, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>> This was at the same time when your only had 640K of
>>>> memory.
>>>
>>> Both limits are just as old. But 640K was fixed ... eventually ...
>>> slowly ... painfully.
>>>
>>> Whereas Microsoft still seem to believe that 26 drive letters ought
>>> to be enough for anybody.
>>
>> The English language decided on 26 letters.
>>
>> The last Windows server version that required a unique drive letter per
>> disk was NT 4.0 Server (released 1996, end of support 2002/2004). All
>> newer Windows versions (2003, 2008, 2008R2, 2012, 2012R2, 2016, 2019
>> and 2022) supports volume mount points.
>
> And, as is usually the case when people look back on the way things
> used to be they target one thing while missing all of the contributing
> factors.  When there were only 26 drive letters (24 if you accept that
> two were owned by floppies) how many physical drive could one actually
> attach to a PC system?

I don't even think it is a real problem today.

For systems with lots of disk space I believe that the normal model
is that the storage system present a few huge logical disks to
the system and the storage system translate that to a large number
of physical drives using RAID 10 or RAID 6 or whatever.

Arne

In article <61780458$0$697$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
=?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:

> >>>> EVE/TPU is actually very powerful for scripting.
> >>>
> >>> When I need to change "ABC" to "XYZ", EDT is very useful ...
> >>>
> >> But when you want to replace "ABC" with "XYZ" in every line
> >> containing "UVW" you need TPU "Learn" capability
> >
> > Nope. EDT can do it! (ED is EDIT/EDT/.)

> Ha. We got an EDT wizard among us.
>
> :-)

Nope; that is bread and butter for many EDT users.

> But still TPU is really a fullblown programming
> language with procedures, if statement, loop
> statement etc., so I will maintain the original
> claim that it is good for scripting.

It depends on what one's needs are: right tool for the job and so on.

On 10/26/2021 5:49 AM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 4:52:38 AM UTC-4, Henry Crun wrote:
>> On 26/10/2021 8:49, Dave Froble wrote:
>>> On 10/25/2021 4:33 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 10/25/2021 3:54 PM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>>>>> In article <sl6m42$4v0$1...@dont-email.me>, Stephen Hoffman
>>>>> <seao...@hoffmanlabs.invalid> writes:
>>>>>> EDT was long ago considered deprecated and ~immutable, and now it's
>>>>>> apparently not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Much faster than TPU: no cursor slow motion, doesn't read the whole 1-GB
>>>>> file if it just needs to change the top few lines. Probably easier to
>>>>> script and run in batch.
>>>>
>>>> EVE/TPU is actually very powerful for scripting.
>>>>
>>>> Arne
>>>>
>>>
>>> When I need to change "ABC" to "XYZ", EDT is very useful ...
>>>
>> But when you want to replace "ABC" with "XYZ" in every line containing "UVW" you need TPU "Learn" capability
>>
>
> Nope. EDT can do it! (ED is EDIT/EDT/.)
>
> $ ED B.B
> 1 ABC
> *TYPE WH
> 1 ABC
> 2 ABC UVW
> 3 ABC
> 4 ABC UVW
> 5 ABC UVW
> 6 ABC
> [EOB]
> *S/ABC/XYZ/ ALL 'UVW'
> 2 XYZ UVW
> 4 XYZ UVW
> 5 XYZ UVW
> 3 substitutions
> *TYPE WH
> 1 ABC
> 2 XYZ UVW
> 3 ABC
> 4 XYZ UVW
> 5 XYZ UVW
> 6 ABC
> [EOB]
> *

Very nice !!!

That specific capability is something that I've personally never run into.

When working on a program, which is my main usage of editors, I'm very careful
of what I'm doing. Mass substitutions can drive a stake through your heart
if not very specific about what's happening. Thus, I'm not a user of some advanced,
and even normal, capabilities.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 2021-10-25, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) <helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de> wrote:
>
> TPU supports the EDT keypad. So does emacs, for that matter. But there
> is much more to EDT than the keypad. It's a way of life. :-)
>

Sure, provided you also use Oxen to plough your fields and use candles
to light your buildings.

EDT is the kind of editor the Amish would use. :-)

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 1:14:36 PM UTC-4, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 10/26/2021 5:49 AM, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 4:52:38 AM UTC-4, Henry Crun wrote:
> >> On 26/10/2021 8:49, Dave Froble wrote:
> >>> On 10/25/2021 4:33 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> >>>> On 10/25/2021 3:54 PM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> >>>>> In article <sl6m42$4v0$1...@dont-email.me>, Stephen Hoffman
> >>>>> <seao...@hoffmanlabs.invalid> writes:
> >>>>>> EDT was long ago considered deprecated and ~immutable, and now it's
> >>>>>> apparently not.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Much faster than TPU: no cursor slow motion, doesn't read the whole 1-GB
> >>>>> file if it just needs to change the top few lines. Probably easier to
> >>>>> script and run in batch.
> >>>>
> >>>> EVE/TPU is actually very powerful for scripting.
> >>>>
> >>>> Arne
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> When I need to change "ABC" to "XYZ", EDT is very useful ...
> >>>
> >> But when you want to replace "ABC" with "XYZ" in every line containing "UVW" you need TPU "Learn" capability
> >>
> >
> > Nope. EDT can do it! (ED is EDIT/EDT/.)
> >
> > $ ED B.B
> > 1 ABC
> > *TYPE WH
> > 1 ABC
> > 2 ABC UVW
> > 3 ABC
> > 4 ABC UVW
> > 5 ABC UVW
> > 6 ABC
> > [EOB]
> > *S/ABC/XYZ/ ALL 'UVW'
> > 2 XYZ UVW
> > 4 XYZ UVW
> > 5 XYZ UVW
> > 3 substitutions
> > *TYPE WH
> > 1 ABC
> > 2 XYZ UVW
> > 3 ABC
> > 4 XYZ UVW
> > 5 XYZ UVW
> > 6 ABC
> > [EOB]
> > *
> Very nice !!!
>
> That specific capability is something that I've personally never run into..
>
> When working on a program, which is my main usage of editors, I'm very careful
> of what I'm doing. Mass substitutions can drive a stake through your heart
> if not very specific about what's happening. Thus, I'm not a user of some advanced,
> and even normal, capabilities.

I agree 100%. Blind mass substitution can be a disaster, esp. for short strings! I'm always careful when doing such things. Also, I don't think I ever needed this particular capability, but I know it exists, so I had to post it.

One day at a remote lab, our experiment was done. As a lowly grad student, it was my job to make backup copies all the 9-track tapes we wrote our data to. Don't want to lose all that hard-gained data!!! We had the lab to ourselves for several days or maybe even a week or week and a half. Don't want all that long hard work to go to waste!!!

Took about 10 min. to make a copy of each tape. So I thought I'd take the opportunity to catch up to everyone else on VMS. During each 10 min. interval I literally plowed through the DCL dictionary, and probably the User's manual and the EDT manual, too.

Again to all: If EDT is not up to your needs, sure, use whatever is. But those editors only get in my way. I am working on DCL scripts. Nothing terribly fancy. For this, EDT serves me well. All I am doing is sprucing up TO.COM (fixed a bug, too!) to resubmit the current version (a somewhat old one is there). And maybe check on other things.
My favorite thing about EDT is probably the way it does the key definitions..

Again, if anyone can find the release notes for fixing, or even the one describing the SET DEFAULT problem, please do post. (Was most likely the 6.0, 6.1, or 6.2 version of OpenVMS where the problem was described.)

> --
> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
> 170 Grimplin Road
> Vanderbilt, PA 15486

AEF

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 11:19:27 PM UTC+13, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 10:48:26 PM UTC-4, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 5:28:47 PM UTC+13, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> When was EDT updated to allow more than 22 lines? IDK, but it's made me happy!
>> “EDT” and “happy” were never words I considered using in the same sentence ...
> I understand. Use the right tool for the job, I say. For me that is usually EDT.

What drove me mad about EDT was its insistence on a “current direction” mode. Instead of having separate movement commands for going forward and backward by word, line etc, it had a single command for each, with separate “forward” and “backward” keys for setting the direction.

But since I could never remember what was the last direction key I hit, I would always have to hit it again, so every movement command became *two* keystrokes instead of one.

> One thing I really like about EDT is the key definitions. You can see them and change
> them without needing to recompile and make a new huge TPU section file ....

Emacs does all that, and more. It also has the advantage of being built on LISP, which is still one of the most advanced programming languages around.

On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 3:07:08 AM UTC+13, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> When there were only 26 drive letters (24 if you accept that
> two were owned by floppies) how many physical drive could one actually
> attach to a PC system?

Your point was valid in 1980, and starting to seem a bit weak by 1990. Consider how it looks today.

I wonder how Dave Cutler feels, knowing that his next-generation “New Technology” OS, ostensibly created from the ground up to take full advantage of 32-bit hardware, is still hobbled by a limitation baked into its heart that dates back to the 8-bit era.

At least VMS never had to suffer that ignominy...

On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 2:41:29 AM UTC+13, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 10/26/2021 2:17 AM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> Whereas Microsoft still seem to believe that 26 drive letters ought to be enough
>> for anybody.
>
> The English language decided on 26 letters.

But the idea to only use one letter to identify a drive came from Gary Kildall with CP/M. Which, I understand, he cross-developed on a DEC PDP-10 running TOPS-10, which had multicharacter names for both disk and non-disk devices. (As did every subsequent DEC OS.)

Then Microsoft carried over the same limitation with MS-DOS for some reason, even though that was ostensibly running on “16-bit” hardware by now, not subject to the same memory limitations as the old “8-bit” machines.

> The last Windows server version that required a unique drive letter per
> disk was NT 4.0 Server (released 1996, end of support 2002/2004). All
> newer Windows versions (2003, 2008, 2008R2, 2012, 2012R2, 2016, 2019
> and 2022) supports volume mount points.

Which are too fiddly for ordinary people to use, can cause incompatibilities with some software, are tricky to set up for things like USB sticks or network shares, etc, etc.

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 6:31:27 PM UTC-4, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 11:19:27 PM UTC+13, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 10:48:26 PM UTC-4, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> >> On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 5:28:47 PM UTC+13, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> When was EDT updated to allow more than 22 lines? IDK, but it's made me happy!
> >> “EDT” and “happy” were never words I considered using in the same sentence ...
> > I understand. Use the right tool for the job, I say. For me that is usually EDT.
> What drove me mad about EDT was its insistence on a “current direction” mode. Instead of having separate movement commands for going forward and backward by word, line etc, it had a single command for each, with separate “forward” and “backward” keys for setting the direction.
>
> But since I could never remember what was the last direction key I hit, I would always have to hit it again, so every movement command became *two* keystrokes instead of one.

Hmmm. Somehow this never bothered me much. I usually start with key 4 or 5 if I haven't touched the keypad in a short while. It's pretty quick, unless you're the hunt-and-peck type.

If you want to scroll up or down several pages, you only need to hit 4 or 5 once, then just repeat the 8 key until you find what you want.

But I fully understand why some _are_ bothered by it. Hey, typing directory brackets used to annoy me. And at least one other, who liked my TO.COM (an early rather primitive version) for that reason alone! Anyway, after a few years of typing long paths in Unix commands, I'm not bothered by it nearly as much. I actually tried to write a cd program in Unix, but Unix thwarted me at every turn. First, it would spawn a process to run it and change the directory therein, exit, and I'm still in the same directory! I was told a trick to take care of that, when something else screwed me over. So after a short while I punted and just typed out the long bloody paths. Arghh.

> > One thing I really like about EDT is the key definitions. You can see them and change
> > them without needing to recompile and make a new huge TPU section file ....

> Emacs does all that, and more. It also has the advantage of being built on LISP, which is still one of the most advanced programming languages around.

So Emacs lets you put in key definitions in a readable file and you don't need to compile it into a huge section file and thereafter not be able to list your commands? If it does, that's cool!

I've used emacs on occasion. A lot of two-keys-at-the-same-time commands. And often two of _them_ in a row. And the 4,5 bit bothers you on EDT? Here's an emacs key definition with three in a row!: C-x 4 C-o

OTOH, I _like_ EDT's command mode. You see the asterisk at the bottom or you don't. You can search for a term and just see the lines that have that term, like with the SEARCH command, instead of skipping around the file like you have to on PCs and Macs. Well, Excel does have Find All, except the Mac version doesn't! Arghh.

And another problem I always had with emacs: Once you start a session for the first time in a long time, you can't figure out how to exit. Well, I'd always forget it after a while and have to look it up. You'd think it would be a single key, like Ctrl-X or something, but NOOOOOOO. It's C-x C-c according to https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/refcards/pdf/refcard.pdf Who could remember that after several months of not using emacs? What does the c stand for anyway?

Hey, if emacs works for you, that's great. Go for it.

AEF

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 1:32:26 PM UTC-4, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2021-10-25, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) <hel...@asclothestro.multivax.de> wrote:
> >
> > TPU supports the EDT keypad. So does emacs, for that matter. But there
> > is much more to EDT than the keypad. It's a way of life. :-)
> >
> Sure, provided you also use Oxen to plough your fields and use candles
> to light your buildings.
>
> EDT is the kind of editor the Amish would use. :-)
>
> Simon.
>
> --
> Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
> Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

I don't have any fields, but I _do_ have electric lights! Most of them are incandescent though. Only a very few LEDs. Hey, incandescents are better if heat goes down. Happened to me once!

Hey, if you need a blow torch instead of a match, go for it!!!

In article <4016c182-65dc-421c-92f8-82679e2d6d5en@googlegroups.com>,
=?UTF-8?Q?Lawrence_D'Oliveiro?= <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> writes:

> What drove me mad about EDT was its insistence on a \_current
> direction_/ mode.

It's not a bug, it's a feature. (By the way, your 8-bit characters have
been substituted with 7-bit replacements to be more usenet-friendly, via
an EDT macro.)

But you can have what you want! Say you want to SEARCH for a string:

PF1 PF3 <string> ENTER

is probably what you're doing. But

PF1 PF3 <string> KP4

is "find in forward direction"

and

PF1 PF3 <string> KP5

is "find in reverse direction.

ENTER is, as usual, "FIND NEXT" in the current direction.

So you can change (or confirm) the current direction at the same time as
you tell it to search, all with one keystroke. That's what I call
efficiency.

In article <f48435df-7ad5-4163-bad5-472c24cbd5a1n@googlegroups.com>,
"alanfe...@gmail.com" <alanfeldman48@gmail.com> writes:

> Hmmm. Somehow this never bothered me much. I usually start with key 4 or 5
> if I haven't touched the keypad in a short while. It's pretty quick, unless
> you're the hunt-and-peck type.

Indeed. I have saved literally years of my life because I learned to
touch-type when I was about 12. When I learned VMS, I extended that to
the keypad for EDT, MAIL, the debugger, and NEWSRDR, as well as keys I
have defined myself (consistently) in these and other applications.

Life is too short not to touch type.

In article <ba4e4aeb-b8c0-44b7-845a-fe445f149ee0n@googlegroups.com>,
"alanfe...@gmail.com" <alanfeldman48@gmail.com> writes:

> I don't have any fields, but I _do_ have electric lights!

As Maxwell said, I have an electric field.