Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  nodelist  faq  login

<Overfiend> penis jokes are okay in mixed company. VMS is NOT!!!


computers / comp.sys.mac.vintage / What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?

SubjectAuthor
* What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Ant
+- Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Stephen Cole
+* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Your Name
|`* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Ant
| `* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Your Name
|  `* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Ant
|   +* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?nospam
|   |`* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Ant
|   | +* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?ErikRS
|   | |`- Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?nospam
|   | `* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?ErikRS
|   |  `* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Andreas Rutishauser
|   |   +* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?nospam
|   |   |`* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Andreas Rutishauser
|   |   | `* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?nospam
|   |   |  `* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Andreas Rutishauser
|   |   |   +* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?nospam
|   |   |   |`* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Andreas Rutishauser
|   |   |   | `* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?nospam
|   |   |   |  `* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Stephen Cole
|   |   |   |   `* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Your Name
|   |   |   |    `- Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?nospam
|   |   |   `* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Mike Dee
|   |   |    `* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?nospam
|   |   |     `- Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?nospam
|   |   `* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Your Name
|   |    `- Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?nospam
|   `* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Your Name
|    +- Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Mike Dee
|    `- Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?nospam
`* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Adrian Tuddenham
 +* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Ant
 |`- Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?ErikRS
 `* Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?ErikRS
  `- Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?Adrian Tuddenham

Pages:12
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: Andreas Rutishauser
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: MacAndreas
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2020 08:36 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: andr...@macandreas.ch (Andreas Rutishauser)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2020 10:36:04 +0200
Organization: MacAndreas
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <andreas-1EA633.10360421062020@news.individual.de>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <wJKdnZOwQYDq7nHDnZ2dnUU7-U2dnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcjfsl$1h1i$1@gioia.aioe.org> <T5qdnZsm8tkt8HDDnZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <190620202219245112%nospam@nospam.invalid> <dLednQSNu5YgHXDDnZ2dnUU7-WGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcl1kq$acm$1@solani.org>
X-Trace: individual.net 4NQLLJc58k1zrEal/xzTFQRbf0VKlFvSEirYN+wfC+C6/Z8zs=
X-Orig-Path: andreas
Cancel-Lock: sha1:KqHQLZP3v32JeES/xbrkqW1zfzE=
User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.5.2 (Intel Mac OS X)
View all headers

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
I am going to try installing a new Leopard into this old PB G4. I hope it
still comes with Mac OS 9.

it never did.

what did it never?

My PowerBook G4 Titanium runs MacOS 9.1 and MaOS X

Cheers
Andreas


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: nospam
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2020 13:27 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2020 09:27:26 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <210620200927264656%nospam@nospam.invalid>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <wJKdnZOwQYDq7nHDnZ2dnUU7-U2dnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcjfsl$1h1i$1@gioia.aioe.org> <T5qdnZsm8tkt8HDDnZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <190620202219245112%nospam@nospam.invalid> <dLednQSNu5YgHXDDnZ2dnUU7-WGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcl1kq$acm$1@solani.org> <andreas-1EA633.10360421062020@news.individual.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="762ceab21d15dc10d4bfe6c6702aeb1d";
logging-data="12424"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+aFX1JnMaDDbpFZvKXfBEB"
User-Agent: Thoth/1.9.0 (Mac OS X)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:r1d0lSUvYByC/ojejyAFjDsT9mw=
View all headers
In article <andreas-1EA633.10360421062020@news.individual.de>, Andreas
Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> wrote:

I am going to try installing a new Leopard into this old PB G4. I hope
it still comes with Mac OS 9.

it never did.

what did it never?

it never came with mac os 9.

My PowerBook G4 Titanium runs MacOS 9.1 and MaOS X

it didn't come with leopard, nor can it even run it.


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: Andreas Rutishauser
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: MacAndreas
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 05:59 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder7.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: andr...@macandreas.ch (Andreas Rutishauser)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 07:59:20 +0200
Organization: MacAndreas
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <andreas-95CEF8.07592022062020@news.individual.de>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <wJKdnZOwQYDq7nHDnZ2dnUU7-U2dnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcjfsl$1h1i$1@gioia.aioe.org> <T5qdnZsm8tkt8HDDnZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <190620202219245112%nospam@nospam.invalid> <dLednQSNu5YgHXDDnZ2dnUU7-WGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcl1kq$acm$1@solani.org> <andreas-1EA633.10360421062020@news.individual.de> <210620200927264656%nospam@nospam.invalid>
X-Trace: individual.net ExqTLs70gqh+it4aAfW+qg1u7s+9m5wtSEKJzl5qDNTEUfsKI=
X-Orig-Path: andreas
Cancel-Lock: sha1:LKMKtayMbdKwRMbCmJPZ1BUzWog=
User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.5.2 (Intel Mac OS X)
View all headers
In article <210620200927264656%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

In article <andreas-1EA633.10360421062020@news.individual.de>, Andreas
Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> wrote:

I am going to try installing a new Leopard into this old PB G4. I hope
it still comes with Mac OS 9.

it never did.

what did it never?

it never came with mac os 9.

that's right, the Titanium came with Mac OS 9.1 (later models of the
Titanizm added Mac OS X 10.1.1)

My PowerBook G4 Titanium runs MacOS 9.1 and MaOS X

it didn't come with leopard, nor can it even run it.

That's right for early models of the G4 PowerBook, where Tiger ist the
maximum (10.4.11), later models  supported Leopard (10.5.8)


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: Your Name
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 06:11 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!.POSTED.I67USFpx7VsDhUOvcltC9w.user.gioia.aioe.org!not-for-mail
From: YourN...@YourISP.com (Your Name)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 18:11:15 +1200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <rcpi22$1hse$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <andreas-1EA633.10360421062020@news.individual.de>
NNTP-Posting-Host: I67USFpx7VsDhUOvcltC9w.user.gioia.aioe.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org
User-Agent: Unison/2.2
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
View all headers
On 2020-06-21 08:36:04 +0000, Andreas Rutishauser said:
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

I am going to try installing a new Leopard into this old PB G4. I hope it still comes with Mac OS 9.

it never did.

what did it never?

My PowerBook G4 Titanium runs MacOS 9.1 and MaOS X

Cheers
Andreas

Yes, but the install discs for each version of MacOS are separate and have to be installed separately.

Part of the reason it was done that way is so that people who didn't want one of them for whatever reason didn't have to install it.



Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: nospam
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 06:19 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.swapon.de!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 02:19:17 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <220620200219173420%nospam@nospam.invalid>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <wJKdnZOwQYDq7nHDnZ2dnUU7-U2dnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcjfsl$1h1i$1@gioia.aioe.org> <T5qdnZsm8tkt8HDDnZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <190620202219245112%nospam@nospam.invalid> <dLednQSNu5YgHXDDnZ2dnUU7-WGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcl1kq$acm$1@solani.org> <andreas-1EA633.10360421062020@news.individual.de> <210620200927264656%nospam@nospam.invalid> <andreas-95CEF8.07592022062020@news.individual.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="1b43623b592078d2b23b43feddc7cc58";
logging-data="706"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18ONtwSiQo4sx0OUv7NgPFb"
User-Agent: Thoth/1.9.0 (Mac OS X)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:7ujuUgTD8NsXhEYquJKPFK6TB7M=
View all headers
In article <andreas-95CEF8.07592022062020@news.individual.de>, Andreas
Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> wrote:

I am going to try installing a new Leopard into this old PB G4. I
hope it still comes with Mac OS 9.

it never did.

what did it never?

it never came with mac os 9.

that's right, the Titanium came with Mac OS 9.1 (later models of the
Titanizm added Mac OS X 10.1.1)

macs came with macos 9, for macs that could run it.

mac os x did not include mac os 9. no reason why it would.

also, leopard was released long after the mac os 9 funeral, thus it
could never have included it.


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: nospam
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 06:19 UTC
References: 1 2 3
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 02:19:17 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <220620200219173464%nospam@nospam.invalid>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <andreas-1EA633.10360421062020@news.individual.de> <rcpi22$1hse$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="1b43623b592078d2b23b43feddc7cc58";
logging-data="706"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19J5fqTWMUT1RfR+aSF6UlW"
User-Agent: Thoth/1.9.0 (Mac OS X)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:Et/7ZdscUtTvjb2Qv7JRQGzrbW0=
View all headers
In article <rcpi22$1hse$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

I am going to try installing a new Leopard into this old PB G4. I hope
it still comes with Mac OS 9.

it never did.

what did it never?

My PowerBook G4 Titanium runs MacOS 9.1 and MaOS X

Yes, but the install discs for each version of MacOS are separate and
have to be installed separately.

Part of the reason it was done that way is so that people who didn't
want one of them for whatever reason didn't have to install it.

no, the reason is that they were entirely separate products.


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: Andreas Rutishauser
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: MacAndreas
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 05:56 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: andr...@macandreas.ch (Andreas Rutishauser)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 07:56:38 +0200
Organization: MacAndreas
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <andreas-E222DF.07563823062020@news.individual.de>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <wJKdnZOwQYDq7nHDnZ2dnUU7-U2dnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcjfsl$1h1i$1@gioia.aioe.org> <T5qdnZsm8tkt8HDDnZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <190620202219245112%nospam@nospam.invalid> <dLednQSNu5YgHXDDnZ2dnUU7-WGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcl1kq$acm$1@solani.org> <andreas-1EA633.10360421062020@news.individual.de> <210620200927264656%nospam@nospam.invalid> <andreas-95CEF8.07592022062020@news.individual.de> <220620200219173420%nospam@nospam.invalid>
X-Trace: individual.net keHmhzNmlW0o4QJbErj2xQpLOpKteRaWdRk+9tktGajEasX0Q=
X-Orig-Path: andreas
Cancel-Lock: sha1:Wd9qv8HvmMBcVLpDNPszMJWzyKo=
User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.5.2 (Intel Mac OS X)
View all headers
In article <220620200219173420%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

In article <andreas-95CEF8.07592022062020@news.individual.de>, Andreas
Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> wrote:

I am going to try installing a new Leopard into this old PB G4. I
hope it still comes with Mac OS 9.

it never did.

what did it never?

it never came with mac os 9.

that's right, the Titanium came with Mac OS 9.1 (later models of the
Titanizm added Mac OS X 10.1.1)

macs came with macos 9, for macs that could run it.

so why do you write: "it never came with mac os 9."?

mac os x did not include mac os 9. no reason why it would.

Noone wrote that.What is the reason you mention this?

also, leopard was released long after the mac os 9 funeral, thus it
could never have included it.

Noone is writing about  "included", but installing, which is possible
with certain models of PowerBook G4.


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: nospam
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 11:42 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 07:42:28 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <230620200742280014%nospam@nospam.invalid>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <wJKdnZOwQYDq7nHDnZ2dnUU7-U2dnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcjfsl$1h1i$1@gioia.aioe.org> <T5qdnZsm8tkt8HDDnZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <190620202219245112%nospam@nospam.invalid> <dLednQSNu5YgHXDDnZ2dnUU7-WGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcl1kq$acm$1@solani.org> <andreas-1EA633.10360421062020@news.individual.de> <210620200927264656%nospam@nospam.invalid> <andreas-95CEF8.07592022062020@news.individual.de> <220620200219173420%nospam@nospam.invalid> <andreas-E222DF.07563823062020@news.individual.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="e2a11cc56c215e0c24ca09cf26b3bad3";
logging-data="8455"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19Hb3YK/vk70Lj8+YJU/0/m"
User-Agent: Thoth/1.9.0 (Mac OS X)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:I+A025vGyYeCg4f/vrVgwf+rpik=
View all headers
In article <andreas-E222DF.07563823062020@news.individual.de>, Andreas
Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> wrote:

I am going to try installing a new Leopard into this old PB G4.
I hope it still comes with Mac OS 9.

it never did.

what did it never?

it never came with mac os 9.

that's right, the Titanium came with Mac OS 9.1 (later models of the
Titanizm added Mac OS X 10.1.1)

macs came with macos 9, for macs that could run it.

so why do you write: "it never came with mac os 9."?

because the original claim was about leopard and mac os 9.

mac os x did not include mac os 9. no reason why it would.

Noone wrote that.What is the reason you mention this?

the original poster did.

also, leopard was released long after the mac os 9 funeral, thus it
could never have included it.

Noone is writing about  "included", but installing, which is possible
with certain models of PowerBook G4.

read it again.


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: Andreas Rutishauser
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: MacAndreas
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 06:24 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder7.news.weretis.net!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!npeer-ng0.de.kpn-eurorings.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: andr...@macandreas.ch (Andreas Rutishauser)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 08:24:46 +0200
Organization: MacAndreas
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <andreas-77B343.08244624062020@news.individual.de>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <wJKdnZOwQYDq7nHDnZ2dnUU7-U2dnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcjfsl$1h1i$1@gioia.aioe.org> <T5qdnZsm8tkt8HDDnZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <190620202219245112%nospam@nospam.invalid> <dLednQSNu5YgHXDDnZ2dnUU7-WGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcl1kq$acm$1@solani.org> <andreas-1EA633.10360421062020@news.individual.de> <210620200927264656%nospam@nospam.invalid> <andreas-95CEF8.07592022062020@news.individual.de> <220620200219173420%nospam@nospam.invalid> <andreas-E222DF.07563823062020@news.individual.de> <230620200742280014%nospam@nospam.invalid>
X-Trace: individual.net VB7RBj8uXzhpVFjPqBOH4QceVGwzlk7ArTGbOXHYFU+gsSNuw=
X-Orig-Path: andreas
Cancel-Lock: sha1:EzCdmamVtRr0yAza9HXqg6EYLSU=
User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.5.2 (Intel Mac OS X)
View all headers
In article <230620200742280014%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

In article <andreas-E222DF.07563823062020@news.individual.de>, Andreas
Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> wrote:

I am going to try installing a new Leopard into this old PB
G4.
I hope it still comes with Mac OS 9.

it never did.

what did it never?

it never came with mac os 9.

that's right, the Titanium came with Mac OS 9.1 (later models of the
Titanizm added Mac OS X 10.1.1)

macs came with macos 9, for macs that could run it.

so why do you write: "it never came with mac os 9."?

because the original claim was about leopard and mac os 9.

I don't understand your logic. There are PB G4 models that came with Mac
OS 9 that can run Leopard.

mac os x did not include mac os 9. no reason why it would.

Noone wrote that.What is the reason you mention this?

the original poster did.

The OP ist writing about a computer that could cpme with OSs, not OSs
including aother OSs.

also, leopard was released long after the mac os 9 funeral, thus it
could never have included it.

Noone is writing about  "included", but installing, which is possible
with certain models of PowerBook G4.

read it again.

That would be you.


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: nospam
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 12:54 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 08:54:13 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <240620200854132371%nospam@nospam.invalid>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <wJKdnZOwQYDq7nHDnZ2dnUU7-U2dnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcjfsl$1h1i$1@gioia.aioe.org> <T5qdnZsm8tkt8HDDnZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <190620202219245112%nospam@nospam.invalid> <dLednQSNu5YgHXDDnZ2dnUU7-WGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcl1kq$acm$1@solani.org> <andreas-1EA633.10360421062020@news.individual.de> <210620200927264656%nospam@nospam.invalid> <andreas-95CEF8.07592022062020@news.individual.de> <220620200219173420%nospam@nospam.invalid> <andreas-E222DF.07563823062020@news.individual.de> <230620200742280014%nospam@nospam.invalid> <andreas-77B343.08244624062020@news.individual.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="39a662f4be83e7256cf2205a8bec83bf";
logging-data="15153"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/UZWG4qWh7JwO83NNHfL93"
User-Agent: Thoth/1.9.0 (Mac OS X)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:WUiVMxwFsRqOOd2neX5XCz7VMM8=
View all headers
In article <andreas-77B343.08244624062020@news.individual.de>, Andreas
Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> wrote:

I am going to try installing a new Leopard into this old PB
G4. I hope it still comes with Mac OS 9.

it never did.

what did it never?

it never came with mac os 9.

that's right, the Titanium came with Mac OS 9.1 (later models of the
Titanizm added Mac OS X 10.1.1)

macs came with macos 9, for macs that could run it.

so why do you write: "it never came with mac os 9."?

because the original claim was about leopard and mac os 9.

I don't understand your logic.

clearly.

There are PB G4 models that came with Mac
OS 9 that can run Leopard.

nobody said they didn't.

mac os x did not include mac os 9. no reason why it would.

Noone wrote that.What is the reason you mention this?

the original poster did.

The OP ist writing about a computer that could cpme with OSs, not OSs
including aother OSs.

no, he was writing about leopard coming with mac os 9.

it did not, nor could it have, since mac os 9 had long been dead and
buried by the time leopard was released.

many people mistakenly think mac os x included mac os 9 because it
included the classic environment. it did not.


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: Stephen Cole
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 17:23 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: use...@stephenthomascole.com (Stephen Cole)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 17:23:55 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <rd027b$4hn$3@dont-email.me>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com>
<wJKdnZOwQYDq7nHDnZ2dnUU7-U2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>
<rcjfsl$1h1i$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<T5qdnZsm8tkt8HDDnZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
<190620202219245112%nospam@nospam.invalid>
<dLednQSNu5YgHXDDnZ2dnUU7-WGdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
<rcl1kq$acm$1@solani.org>
<andreas-1EA633.10360421062020@news.individual.de>
<210620200927264656%nospam@nospam.invalid>
<andreas-95CEF8.07592022062020@news.individual.de>
<220620200219173420%nospam@nospam.invalid>
<andreas-E222DF.07563823062020@news.individual.de>
<230620200742280014%nospam@nospam.invalid>
<andreas-77B343.08244624062020@news.individual.de>
<240620200854132371%nospam@nospam.invalid>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 17:23:55 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="2cd4865864b86ba06ee91cf4874d8478";
logging-data="4663"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18r5/23uGmvTiEnUqeGalj4"
User-Agent: NewsTap/5.4.1 (iPhone/iPod Touch)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:ikftfOt/pCs91dZ2vWEhy3STgmg=
sha1:OTsQtWq2V+67EOODJquvEOybv/M=
View all headers
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
In article <andreas-77B343.08244624062020@news.individual.de>, Andreas
Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> wrote:

I am going to try installing a new Leopard into this old PB
G4. I hope it still comes with Mac OS 9.

it never did.

what did it never?

it never came with mac os 9.

that's right, the Titanium came with Mac OS 9.1 (later models of the
Titanizm added Mac OS X 10.1.1)

macs came with macos 9, for macs that could run it.

so why do you write: "it never came with mac os 9."?

because the original claim was about leopard and mac os 9.

I don't understand your logic.

clearly.

There are PB G4 models that came with Mac
OS 9 that can run Leopard.

nobody said they didn't.

mac os x did not include mac os 9. no reason why it would.

Noone wrote that.What is the reason you mention this?

the original poster did.

The OP ist writing about a computer that could cpme with OSs, not OSs
including aother OSs.

no, he was writing about leopard coming with mac os 9.

it did not, nor could it have, since mac os 9 had long been dead and
buried by the time leopard was released.

many people mistakenly think mac os x included mac os 9 because it
included the classic environment. it did not.


Gentlemen, please stop arguing.

--
M0TEY // STC // #SaveOurNHS


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: Your Name
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 22:02 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!.POSTED.5MJoMFOWN0r9Rd32l6bRUg.user.gioia.aioe.org!not-for-mail
From: YourN...@YourISP.com (Your Name)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 10:02:46 +1200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <rd0ii4$pnh$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rd027b$4hn$3@dont-email.me>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 5MJoMFOWN0r9Rd32l6bRUg.user.gioia.aioe.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org
User-Agent: Unison/2.2
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
View all headers
On 2020-06-24 17:23:55 +0000, Stephen Cole said:

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
In article <andreas-77B343.08244624062020@news.individual.de>, Andreas
Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> wrote:

I am going to try installing a new Leopard into this old PB
G4. I hope it still comes with Mac OS 9.

it never did.

what did it never?

it never came with mac os 9.

that's right, the Titanium came with Mac OS 9.1 (later models of the
Titanizm added Mac OS X 10.1.1)

macs came with macos 9, for macs that could run it.

so why do you write: "it never came with mac os 9."?

because the original claim was about leopard and mac os 9.

I don't understand your logic.

clearly.

There are PB G4 models that came with Mac
OS 9 that can run Leopard.

nobody said they didn't.

mac os x did not include mac os 9. no reason why it would.

Noone wrote that.What is the reason you mention this?

the original poster did.

The OP ist writing about a computer that could cpme with OSs, not OSs
including aother OSs.

no, he was writing about leopard coming with mac os 9.

it did not, nor could it have, since mac os 9 had long been dead and
buried by the time leopard was released.

many people mistakenly think mac os x included mac os 9 because it
included the classic environment. it did not.

Gentlemen, please stop arguing.

Classic wouldn't work unless you installed MacOS 9. It wasn't an in-built funciton of MacOS X itself, it was basically a virtualisation, similar-ish to running Windows under Parallels or VMWare. With the appropriate options you could watch MacOS 9 booting within MacOS X when you first used "Classic", including the good old "march of the extension icons".




Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: nospam
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 22:27 UTC
References: 1 2 3
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 18:27:02 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <240620201827024568%nospam@nospam.invalid>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rd027b$4hn$3@dont-email.me> <rd0ii4$pnh$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="4ce2ccefe871d380824f17ba45d96cc6";
logging-data="19380"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+aS13IYNoBFQb+nNn+FdSr"
User-Agent: Thoth/1.9.0 (Mac OS X)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:FQIBxzy37CyVml61WeXG8LKb4c8=
View all headers
In article <rd0ii4$pnh$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:


Classic wouldn't work unless you installed MacOS 9. It wasn't an
in-built funciton of MacOS X itself, it was basically a virtualisation,
similar-ish to running Windows under Parallels or VMWare.

classic, aka blue box, absolutely was an integral part of mac os x,
which provided for booting mac os 9 and running classic mac os apps.

With the
appropriate options you could watch MacOS 9 booting within MacOS X when
you first used "Classic", including the good old "march of the
extension icons".

no options needed.


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: Mike Dee
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: Poor Boy
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 01:53 UTC
References: 1 2 3
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mike...@emteedee.invalid (Mike Dee)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 01:53:54 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Poor Boy
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <XnsABE77902F851Bmikedee@emteedee.invalid>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <T5qdnZsm8tkt8HDDnZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rck4dk$7ft$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Injection-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 01:53:54 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="29d4b244d5a5e2b18aeab6ef7324cb02";
logging-data="303"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19E+9W3njmVdhHBQj4EENZm"
User-Agent: Xnews/2009.05.01
Cancel-Lock: sha1:zqdxQ/qEZ9KEnYurcXfLkL78g2w=
X-Face: $W<X:Uw4$"nTXRHqqZ=.|pFI@K,TNNH0i>-J;N5/yst7]cQb.o^L$oAhs-J!C AOUMQ^NHu3aTb9H8awW~4Y.LR`[o}Rz6Xf=^krb-AwUiM"7zA+QR<vWz'8>hKiTOyd]h z]7m=[nhuH{NMrE>~][PM`wSKd?TFV-.glh)>N
View all headers
Your Name wrote:

On 2020-06-20 02:00:16 +0000, Ant said:
...
Thanks. Ooh, even mac OSes like Leopard!

Yep, any Mac software older than 10 years is considered
"abandonware" and uploaded to that very useful resource website
for us vintage Mac fans.

I am going to try installing a new Leopard into this old PB G4. I
hope it still comes with Mac OS 9.

You will need separate OS 9 and OS X install discs and do one at a
time. There's also a bit of a hiccup in that one of them (I can't
remember off the top of my head which one it is) needs to be on
the hard drive's first partition to be able to be seen for
booting.

I think that was in relation to Old World ROM Macs like the Beige G3
and earlier. These needed OS X to be installed on the first partition
in a HD, and that partition needed to be 8GB or less in size.

This shouldn't affect New World ROM Macs like a G4


--
dee


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: Mike Dee
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: Poor Boy
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:05 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mike...@emteedee.invalid (Mike Dee)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:05:28 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Poor Boy
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <XnsABE77AF90C99mikedee@emteedee.invalid>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <wJKdnZOwQYDq7nHDnZ2dnUU7-U2dnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcjfsl$1h1i$1@gioia.aioe.org> <T5qdnZsm8tkt8HDDnZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <190620202219245112%nospam@nospam.invalid> <dLednQSNu5YgHXDDnZ2dnUU7-WGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcl1kq$acm$1@solani.org> <andreas-1EA633.10360421062020@news.individual.de> <210620200927264656%nospam@nospam.invalid> <andreas-95CEF8.07592022062020@news.individual.de> <220620200219173420%nospam@nospam.invalid> <andreas-E222DF.07563823062020@news.individual.de>
Injection-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:05:28 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="29d4b244d5a5e2b18aeab6ef7324cb02";
logging-data="303"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19zqQ7NZQkVXyS0EuZjYiSH"
User-Agent: Xnews/2009.05.01
Cancel-Lock: sha1:TBtQ6MILGachdmY2ptUC2vt8MHo=
X-Face: $W<X:Uw4$"nTXRHqqZ=.|pFI@K,TNNH0i>-J;N5/yst7]cQb.o^L$oAhs-J!C AOUMQ^NHu3aTb9H8awW~4Y.LR`[o}Rz6Xf=^krb-AwUiM"7zA+QR<vWz'8>hKiTOyd]h z]7m=[nhuH{NMrE>~][PM`wSKd?TFV-.glh)>N
View all headers
Andreas Rutishauser wrote:

In article <220620200219173420%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

In article <andreas-95CEF8.07592022062020@news.individual.de>,
Andreas Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> wrote:

I am going to try installing a new Leopard into this
old PB G4. I hope it still comes with Mac OS 9.

it never did.

what did it never?

it never came with mac os 9.

that's right, the Titanium came with Mac OS 9.1 (later models
of the Titanizm added Mac OS X 10.1.1)

macs came with macos 9, for macs that could run it.

so why do you write: "it never came with mac os 9."?

He was writing about Leopard Mac OS 10.5.x

It (Leopard) did not ship-with or support Mac OS 9 (Classic mode)

His PB G4 can easily run Mac OS 9 and Leopard 10.5.x But must boot
natively into one or the other's OS. That is Leopard does not support
running Classic Mac programs, only native PPC Mac OS X programs.

--
dee


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: nospam
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:08 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 22:08:16 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <240620202208161013%nospam@nospam.invalid>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <wJKdnZOwQYDq7nHDnZ2dnUU7-U2dnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcjfsl$1h1i$1@gioia.aioe.org> <T5qdnZsm8tkt8HDDnZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <190620202219245112%nospam@nospam.invalid> <dLednQSNu5YgHXDDnZ2dnUU7-WGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcl1kq$acm$1@solani.org> <andreas-1EA633.10360421062020@news.individual.de> <210620200927264656%nospam@nospam.invalid> <andreas-95CEF8.07592022062020@news.individual.de> <220620200219173420%nospam@nospam.invalid> <andreas-E222DF.07563823062020@news.individual.de> <XnsABE77AF90C99mikedee@emteedee.invalid>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="4ce2ccefe871d380824f17ba45d96cc6";
logging-data="15313"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/wfu63umfVQQ0EzJfNwGca"
User-Agent: Thoth/1.9.0 (Mac OS X)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:998AMTr75/oe2usZh2nIr0sgScI=
View all headers
In article <XnsABE77AF90C99mikedee@emteedee.invalid>, Mike Dee
<mikedee@emteedee.invalid> wrote:

I am going to try installing a new Leopard into this
old PB G4. I hope it still comes with Mac OS 9.

it never did.

what did it never?

it never came with mac os 9.

that's right, the Titanium came with Mac OS 9.1 (later models
of the Titanizm added Mac OS X 10.1.1)

macs came with macos 9, for macs that could run it.

so why do you write: "it never came with mac os 9."?

He was writing about Leopard Mac OS 10.5.x

correct.

It (Leopard) did not ship-with or support Mac OS 9 (Classic mode)

yes it did.

what it did not ship with was mac os 9.

His PB G4 can easily run Mac OS 9 and Leopard 10.5.x But must boot
natively into one or the other's OS. That is Leopard does not support
running Classic Mac programs, only native PPC Mac OS X programs.

absolutely false.


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: nospam
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 10:39 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@nospam.invalid (nospam)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 06:39:13 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <250620200639136771%nospam@nospam.invalid>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <wJKdnZOwQYDq7nHDnZ2dnUU7-U2dnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcjfsl$1h1i$1@gioia.aioe.org> <T5qdnZsm8tkt8HDDnZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <190620202219245112%nospam@nospam.invalid> <dLednQSNu5YgHXDDnZ2dnUU7-WGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rcl1kq$acm$1@solani.org> <andreas-1EA633.10360421062020@news.individual.de> <210620200927264656%nospam@nospam.invalid> <andreas-95CEF8.07592022062020@news.individual.de> <220620200219173420%nospam@nospam.invalid> <andreas-E222DF.07563823062020@news.individual.de> <XnsABE77AF90C99mikedee@emteedee.invalid> <240620202208161013%nospam@nospam.invalid>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="4ce2ccefe871d380824f17ba45d96cc6";
logging-data="15041"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/HMDTWaGcv9MAjRmDhovQx"
User-Agent: Thoth/1.9.0 (Mac OS X)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:QdkKp6B4HM4fTlmmtpHiEeT8UNs=
View all headers
In article <240620202208161013%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:


I am going to try installing a new Leopard into this
old PB G4. I hope it still comes with Mac OS 9.

it never did.

what did it never?

it never came with mac os 9.

that's right, the Titanium came with Mac OS 9.1 (later models
of the Titanizm added Mac OS X 10.1.1)

macs came with macos 9, for macs that could run it.

so why do you write: "it never came with mac os 9."?

He was writing about Leopard Mac OS 10.5.x

correct.

It (Leopard) did not ship-with or support Mac OS 9 (Classic mode)

yes it did.

what it did not ship with was mac os 9.

His PB G4 can easily run Mac OS 9 and Leopard 10.5.x But must boot
natively into one or the other's OS. That is Leopard does not support
running Classic Mac programs, only native PPC Mac OS X programs.

absolutely false.

not sure what i was thinking. leopard is when classic was nixed, as
well as tiger when running on intel.


Subject: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: Ant
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 05:19 UTC
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder7.news.weretis.net!news.uzoreto.com!tr1.eu1.usenetexpress.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!tr2.iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!buffer1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.earthlink.com!news.earthlink.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 00:19:04 -0500
From: ant...@zimage.comANT (Ant)
Subject: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
User-Agent: tin/2.4.2-20171224 ("Lochhead") (UNIX) (Linux/5.5.11-200.fc31.x86_64 (x86_64))
Message-ID: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 00:19:04 -0500
Lines: 20
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.103.224.66
X-Trace: sv3-sY6ExvcpjcBHGr0f6zIzLAMmAjTEz5zHlVXFohBXwkcFYLk7tumw6unK6gTGTfadNx1sHKTheRKQ1BR!XUwoF7uvygusyJxBJN1J/i26lcNXCpvPUvOSWrq1qAFjScLcn/KluumT6ATU0iBOocdT9avFXZY/!s5mR7QMOh29BaqAZhtMps6I1pqP2RvA=
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Original-Bytes: 2003
View all headers
Hello.

I have an old 15" PowerBook G4 (1 Ghz) with its updated Mac OS v10.2.8
and v9. What are some cool useful apps to use in them these days? I know
online apps will be useless since they are very old. Hopefulyl, I can
still download something in them. If not, then I can use my USB1 flash
(stick/drive)s and LAN. I tried Linux (tried various PowerPC
distributions) in it, but it was just too slow, could never get its wifi
to work, and frustrating compared to PCs. :(

What are some old cool Mac OS programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8? Thank
you for reading and hopefully answering. :)
--
Life is so crazy! ..!.. *isms, sins, hates, (d)evil, illnesses (e.g., COVID-19/2019-nCoV/SARS-CoV-2), deaths, heat waves, fires, out(r)ages, unlucky #4, 2020, etc.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
  /\___/\   Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org /
 / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o   o| |
   \ _ /
    ( )


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: Stephen Cole
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 06:17 UTC
References: 1
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: use...@stephenthomascole.com (Stephen Cole)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 06:17:49 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <rchlad$77h$1@dont-email.me>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 06:17:49 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="f6345624cf04180e458e553ff5af83c7";
logging-data="7409"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/YLIneUmIWNwP7ADQ+Qojw"
User-Agent: NewsTap/5.4.1 (iPhone/iPod Touch)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:WNxVGCx5YBLl5zFqy2PMJaBfvqU=
sha1:codr3jgfCHId3mmUzneJiPAW3TI=
View all headers
Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
Hello.

I have an old 15" PowerBook G4 (1 Ghz) with its updated Mac OS v10.2.8
and v9. What are some cool useful apps to use in them these days? I know
online apps will be useless since they are very old. Hopefulyl, I can
still download something in them. If not, then I can use my USB1 flash
(stick/drive)s and LAN. I tried Linux (tried various PowerPC
distributions) in it, but it was just too slow, could never get its wifi
to work, and frustrating compared to PCs. :(

What are some old cool Mac OS programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8? Thank
you for reading and hopefully answering. :)

One of, if not *the* most useful OS9 app is DragThing. It’s kinda like
OSX’s dock, but much better. :) It’ll change the way you use OS9!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DragThing

Various versions on my site:

https://www.vintageapplemac.com/software/utilities/?u=DragThing

--
M0TEY // STC // #SaveOurNHS


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: Your Name
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 06:22 UTC
References: 1
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!.POSTED.I67USFpx7VsDhUOvcltC9w.user.gioia.aioe.org!not-for-mail
From: YourN...@YourISP.com (Your Name)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 18:22:22 +1200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <rchliu$lan$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: I67USFpx7VsDhUOvcltC9w.user.gioia.aioe.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org
User-Agent: Unison/2.2
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
View all headers
On 2020-06-19 05:19:04 +0000, Ant said:

Hello.

I have an old 15" PowerBook G4 (1 Ghz) with its updated Mac OS v10.2.8
and v9. What are some cool useful apps to use in them these days? I know
online apps will be useless since they are very old. Hopefulyl, I can
still download something in them. If not, then I can use my USB1 flash
(stick/drive)s and LAN. I tried Linux (tried various PowerPC
distributions) in it, but it was just too slow, could never get its wifi
to work, and frustrating compared to PCs. :(

What are some old cool Mac OS programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8? Thank
you for reading and hopefully answering. :)

Go to http://macintoshgarden.org
There is lots and lots of old software for old Macs, both games and apps.



Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: Ant
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:12 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!peer02.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!tr1.eu1.usenetexpress.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!tr2.iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!buffer1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.earthlink.com!news.earthlink.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 03:12:39 -0500
From: ant...@zimage.comANT (Ant)
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <rchliu$lan$1@gioia.aioe.org>
User-Agent: tin/2.4.2-20171224 ("Lochhead") (UNIX) (Linux/5.5.11-200.fc31.x86_64 (x86_64))
Message-ID: <wJKdnZOwQYDq7nHDnZ2dnUU7-U2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 03:12:39 -0500
Lines: 28
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.103.224.66
X-Trace: sv3-l4F36k9SgWHgiQ21e2xio0AgNH3IPyRhKu7cFeQ5gi0AIk+XqWIdqihMAM5u7GeWTdlwoewfBn2qHvC!WaCk6JRf3xwRWWAugO03ZH/q9fasr995NiexT0LchYXs1fcZ+YF5Wf+1o2mg4tYbfGYxa4qJ8m5Q!URDiwGOvontOkkJ0qL5G74SkfWD5PwU=
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Original-Bytes: 2385
X-Received-Bytes: 2554
X-Received-Body-CRC: 793546909
View all headers
Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
On 2020-06-19 05:19:04 +0000, Ant said:

Hello.

I have an old 15" PowerBook G4 (1 Ghz) with its updated Mac OS v10.2.8
and v9. What are some cool useful apps to use in them these days? I know
online apps will be useless since they are very old. Hopefulyl, I can
still download something in them. If not, then I can use my USB1 flash
(stick/drive)s and LAN. I tried Linux (tried various PowerPC
distributions) in it, but it was just too slow, could never get its wifi
to work, and frustrating compared to PCs. :(

What are some old cool Mac OS programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8? Thank
you for reading and hopefully answering. :)

Go to http://macintoshgarden.org
There is lots and lots of old software for old Macs, both games and apps.

Thanks. Ooh, even mac OSes like Leopard!
--
Life is so crazy! ..!.. *isms, sins, hates, (d)evil, illnesses (e.g., COVID-19/2019-nCoV/SARS-CoV-2), deaths, heat waves, fires, out(r)ages, unlucky #4, 2020, etc.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
  /\___/\   Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org /
 / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o   o| |
   \ _ /
    ( )


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: Adrian Tuddenham
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: Poppy Records
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:33 UTC
References: 1
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian Tuddenham)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 12:33:57 +0100
Organization: Poppy Records
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <1os8w33.194v4dl7l3lcqN%adrian@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com>
X-Trace: individual.net 1d74q6Q9J+uKjhrMMKUhhgg9u1fatYuCyHiIgsnz1C4+FJZigy
X-Orig-Path: adrian
Cancel-Lock: sha1:AiWVf/1VLMuRNoEA7UAEBHuLlWo=
User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4.6
View all headers
Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

Hello.

I have an old 15" PowerBook G4 (1 Ghz) with its updated Mac OS v10.2.8
and v9. What are some cool useful apps to use in them these days? I know
online apps will be useless since they are very old. Hopefulyl, I can
still download something in them. If not, then I can use my USB1 flash
(stick/drive)s and LAN. I tried Linux (tried various PowerPC
distributions) in it, but it was just too slow, could never get its wifi
to work, and frustrating compared to PCs. :(

What are some old cool Mac OS programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8? Thank
you for reading and hopefully answering. :)

By far the most useful collection of programs on OS8.6  and OS9 is
"Claris Works".  I still run my entire business on CW 4.0 and use it for
everything in the office.


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: Ant
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 21:51 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.snarked.org!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!buffer2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.earthlink.com!news.earthlink.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 16:51:35 -0500
From: ant...@zimage.comANT (Ant)
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <1os8w33.194v4dl7l3lcqN%adrian@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
User-Agent: tin/2.4.2-20171224 ("Lochhead") (UNIX) (Linux/5.5.11-200.fc31.x86_64 (x86_64))
Message-ID: <oqidnbzUOav6rnDDnZ2dnUU7-fWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 16:51:35 -0500
Lines: 29
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.103.224.66
X-Trace: sv3-vb5Ud+IMeRqB/SwuDnBEWT1jeXOp1i48B5BNO40W3ItQoTBZRJV7T22U6QW3f/fMwrl32LoES8Nahgs!LWzCrdvH3CKJACvJIT24TdlkTbNWInBGp3qKz/gD1i8rBNUFAtULRTi6aAbUVmW3j5upeTNYhFbm!ujwVniLb7m4DtpHn4OmfyrSO/KnDCE8=
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Original-Bytes: 2374
View all headers
Adrian Tuddenham <adrian@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

Hello.

I have an old 15" PowerBook G4 (1 Ghz) with its updated Mac OS v10.2.8
and v9. What are some cool useful apps to use in them these days? I know
online apps will be useless since they are very old. Hopefulyl, I can
still download something in them. If not, then I can use my USB1 flash
(stick/drive)s and LAN. I tried Linux (tried various PowerPC
distributions) in it, but it was just too slow, could never get its wifi
to work, and frustrating compared to PCs. :(

What are some old cool Mac OS programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8? Thank
you for reading and hopefully answering. :)

By far the most useful collection of programs on OS8.6  and OS9 is
"Claris Works".  I still run my entire business on CW 4.0 and use it for
everything in the office.

Wow, how is its compatbility with the newer MS Office documents?
--
:) Juneteenth & TGIF!
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
  /\___/\   Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org /
 / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o   o| |
   \ _ /
    ( )


Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: Your Name
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 22:57 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!.POSTED.I67USFpx7VsDhUOvcltC9w.user.gioia.aioe.org!not-for-mail
From: YourN...@YourISP.com (Your Name)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 10:57:27 +1200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <rcjfsl$1h1i$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <wJKdnZOwQYDq7nHDnZ2dnUU7-U2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: I67USFpx7VsDhUOvcltC9w.user.gioia.aioe.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org
User-Agent: Unison/2.2
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
View all headers
On 2020-06-19 08:12:39 +0000, Ant said:
Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
On 2020-06-19 05:19:04 +0000, Ant said:

Hello.

I have an old 15" PowerBook G4 (1 Ghz) with its updated Mac OS v10.2.8
and v9. What are some cool useful apps to use in them these days? I know
online apps will be useless since they are very old. Hopefulyl, I can
still download something in them. If not, then I can use my USB1 flash
(stick/drive)s and LAN. I tried Linux (tried various PowerPC
distributions) in it, but it was just too slow, could never get its wifi
to work, and frustrating compared to PCs. :(

What are some old cool Mac OS programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8? Thank
you for reading and hopefully answering. :)

Go to http://macintoshgarden.org
There is lots and lots of old software for old Macs, both games and apps.

Thanks. Ooh, even mac OSes like Leopard!

Yep, any Mac software older than 10 years is considered "abandonware" and uploaded to that very useful resource website for us vintage Mac fans.



Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
From: ErikRS
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Organization: solani.org
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 00:19 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!feeder5.news.weretis.net!news.solani.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mac-d...@is.invalid (ErikRS)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.vintage
Subject: Re: What are some old cool programs for Mac OS v9 & X v10.2.8?
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 02:19:20 +0200
Organization: solani.org
Message-ID: <rcjkm8$6sm$1@solani.org>
References: <I7adnWBo6spV13HDnZ2dnUU7-VXNnZ2d@earthlink.com>
<1os8w33.194v4dl7l3lcqN%adrian@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Injection-Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 00:19:20 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: solani.org;
logging-data="7062"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@news.solani.org"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:43.0)
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0 SeaMonkey/2.40
In-Reply-To: <1os8w33.194v4dl7l3lcqN%adrian@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
Cancel-Lock: sha1:C1lXrDMLZfn+pVsIQX2eZZ35Gvk=
X-User-ID: eJwFwYEBwDAEBMCVIvyTcVD2H6F3UArbjaBhsfXmmCvLcSQGqTNH5jW3oinf3dtWTFvd7PgBG6YRkQ==
View all headers

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
By far the most useful collection of programs on OS8.6  and OS9 is
"Claris Works".  I still run my entire business on CW 4.0 and use it for
everything in the office.

And you can even upgrade with full compatibility to "ClarisWorks 5.x Office". Both the spreadsheet and database parts are faster than the AWKS 4.0v4. AWKS Office 5 will run from OS 8.6 up to and incl. OS X 10.1.x.

If you also have - let's say - OS X 10.2.x, you'll need at least AWKS 6.0v1 or higher. - AWKS 6.2.8 for OS 9.x and AWKS 6.2.9 for OS X +10.2.x.

cheers, Erik Richard

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Richard Sørensen <mac-daneRE@MOVEstofanet.dk>
NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - www.nisus.com
Openoffice.org - The Modern Productivity Solution - www.openoffice.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Pages:12
rocksolid light 0.7.2
clearneti2ptor