I used to have one of these. Sadly, I let it go during my last
household move. Any chance anyone still has these sitting around
taking up space (OK, they don't really take up much space) that
would want to get rid of them? I would love to have a couple to
play with again. Pretty sure I even have the stuff for how to
get VMS to run on them stored away in my files somewhere.

bill

On 11/7/21 16:07, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>
> I used to have one of these.  Sadly, I let it go during my last
> household move.  Any chance anyone still has these sitting around
> taking up space (OK, they don't really take up much space) that
> would want to get rid of them?  I would love to have a couple to
> play with again.  Pretty sure I even have the stuff for how to
> get VMS to run on them stored away in my files somewhere.

What's the fascination with this particular system, I wonder, it's
most certainly one of the least reliable and failure-prone systems
that had a DEC logo on it.

In total I had two of them (one ending up to be a de facto 'parts'
system), where both had terrible heat-dissipation (even after the
'community-recommended' modifications and operating it vertically)
and overall power supply/-related issues. I remember that even if
I could get one of these systems up and running, it wouldn't run
reliably for a longer period of time.

I think if I wanted actual AXP hardware, I'd go for something like
an AlphaStation of some sort or even a VMS-compatible AXP board
and install it into a modern PC chassis with proper active cooling.

- MG

On 11/7/21 6:31 PM, MG wrote:
> On 11/7/21 16:07, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> I used to have one of these. Sadly, I let it go during my last
>> household move. Any chance anyone still has these sitting around
>> taking up space (OK, they don't really take up much space) that
>> would want to get rid of them? I would love to have a couple to
>> play with again. Pretty sure I even have the stuff for how to
>> get VMS to run on them stored away in my files somewhere.
>
> What's the fascination with this particular system, I wonder, it's
> most certainly one of the least reliable and failure-prone systems
> that had a DEC logo on it.
>

I used mine for years with never a failure.

> In total I had two of them (one ending up to be a de facto 'parts'
> system), where both had terrible heat-dissipation (even after the
> 'community-recommended' modifications and operating it vertically)

The heat problem was well known. Other than ensurinf that it was
always stood on end to allow for heat flow a small fan made this
a non-problem.

> and overall power supply/-related issues.

Never had any power supply problems.

> I remember that even if
> I could get one of these systems up and running, it wouldn't run
> reliably for a longer period of time.

MIne ran reliably for weeks at a time and only went down when I
chose to power it off.

>
> I think if I wanted actual AXP hardware, I'd go for something like
> an AlphaStation of some sort or even a VMS-compatible AXP board
> and install it into a modern PC chassis with proper active cooling.

Usually too big and too expensive to get shipped to me and also
too big and noisy to run in the house. Wasn't a problem when I
had labs and datacenters when I was working at the University
but not really practical any more. Multia's will do all that
I need to do now and I really liked the little box. Ran VMS,
Linux and BSD on it and all of them performed very well. I
wanted to try Windows NT but never got around to trying it.

bill

In article <nnd$12f1754c$539f1af3@58bc5b7f431a78dc>, MG
<em_geeNO@SPAMxs4all.nl> writes:

> > I used to have one of these.  Sadly, I let it go during my last
> > household move.  Any chance anyone still has these sitting around
> > taking up space (OK, they don't really take up much space) that
> > would want to get rid of them?  I would love to have a couple to
> > play with again.  Pretty sure I even have the stuff for how to
> > get VMS to run on them stored away in my files somewhere.
>
>
> What's the fascination with this particular system, I wonder, it's
> most certainly one of the least reliable and failure-prone systems
> that had a DEC logo on it.

At the time, it was the cheapest AXP system.

> In total I had two of them (one ending up to be a de facto 'parts'
> system), where both had terrible heat-dissipation (even after the
> 'community-recommended' modifications and operating it vertically)
> and overall power supply/-related issues. I remember that even if
> I could get one of these systems up and running, it wouldn't run
> reliably for a longer period of time.
>
> I think if I wanted actual AXP hardware, I'd go for something like
> an AlphaStation of some sort or even a VMS-compatible AXP board
> and install it into a modern PC chassis with proper active cooling.

Right. These days, when EV7 hardware can be had for free, why go with a
Multia?

On 11/07/21 15:07, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>
> I used to have one of these. Sadly, I let it go during my last
> household move. Any chance anyone still has these sitting around
> taking up space (OK, they don't really take up much space) that
> would want to get rid of them? I would love to have a couple to
> play with again. Pretty sure I even have the stuff for how to
> get VMS to run on them stored away in my files somewhere.
>
> bill

Do you want X86 or Alpha ?. Have had examples of both over years
and the one critical thing to make them reliable is to replace the
fan with a high output type and use some cardboard baffling to make
sure that the CPU and hard drive get plenty of air. Original fan
is rubbish and jams eventually, where it should have had a dual
ball bearing fan. Penny pinching etc...

Chris

On 11/8/21 10:24 AM, chris wrote:
> On 11/07/21 15:07, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>
>> I used to have one of these. Sadly, I let it go during my last
>> household move. Any chance anyone still has these sitting around
>> taking up space (OK, they don't really take up much space) that
>> would want to get rid of them? I would love to have a couple to
>> play with again. Pretty sure I even have the stuff for how to
>> get VMS to run on them stored away in my files somewhere.
>>
>> bill
>
> Do you want X86 or Alpha ?.

I wasn't aware of any Multia other than the Alpha version. What
was the x86 version like? But, I am interested in the Alpha
version which can be made to run VMS.

> Have had examples of both over years
> and the one critical thing to make them reliable is to replace the
> fan with a high output type and use some cardboard baffling to make
> sure that the CPU and hard drive get plenty of air. Original fan
> is rubbish and jams eventually, where it should have had a dual
> ball bearing fan. Penny pinching etc...

Mine didn't come with a fan at all. I did add one and, as I said
earlier, I never had a problem with overheating.

bill

On Monday, November 8, 2021 at 9:33:21 AM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 11/8/21 10:24 AM, chris wrote:
> > On 11/07/21 15:07, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> >>
> >> I used to have one of these. Sadly, I let it go during my last
> >> household move. Any chance anyone still has these sitting around
> >> taking up space (OK, they don't really take up much space) that
> >> would want to get rid of them? I would love to have a couple to
> >> play with again. Pretty sure I even have the stuff for how to
> >> get VMS to run on them stored away in my files somewhere.
> >>
> >> bill
> >
> > Do you want X86 or Alpha ?.
> I wasn't aware of any Multia other than the Alpha version. What
> was the x86 version like? But, I am interested in the Alpha
> version which can be made to run VMS.
> > Have had examples of both over years
> > and the one critical thing to make them reliable is to replace the
> > fan with a high output type and use some cardboard baffling to make
> > sure that the CPU and hard drive get plenty of air. Original fan
> > is rubbish and jams eventually, where it should have had a dual
> > ball bearing fan. Penny pinching etc...
> Mine didn't come with a fan at all. I did add one and, as I said
> earlier, I never had a problem with overheating.
>
> bill

At one time I had 4 or 5 of them, still have a few minor bits and pieces that somehow didn't get tossed.
The one thing I still have which is made of pure unobtanium is one of the plastic vertical stands (with tabs intact) that held the Multia vertical.
I could be forced to unload it, as I really have no use for it at all.
My retirement account could use a few extra zeroes. ;-)
I did get mine to run OpenVMS, don't remember which particular flavor but it did work.
There were two versions of the Alpha variant, one with a rather slow 166mhz Alpha which was hard soldered to the MB, and the other had a 233mhz Alpha in a socket.
I still have a CD somewhere with the Alpha version of Windowze NT, I also seem to recall that there were Alpha versions of Monkeysoft Excel and Word, but I could easily be mistaken. It's been soooooo many years since any of that was relevant.

Crabs

On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 9:17:41 AM UTC+13, Crabs wrote:
> I still have a CD somewhere with the Alpha version of Windowze NT ...

Running a clunky 32-bit OS on 64-bit hardware ... what a waste ...

On 11/8/21 00:52, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> I used mine for years with never a failure.

For approximately how long per 'boot'?

> The heat problem was well known.  Other than ensurinf that it was
> always stood on end to allow for heat flow a small fan made this
> a non-problem. > [...]
> Never had any power supply problems.

Good for you.

> Usually too big and too expensive to get shipped to me and also
> too big and noisy to run in the house.

The Multia/UDB with a proper fan wasn't silent either, in so
far I recall.

> Multia's will do all that I need to do now and I really liked
> the little box.  Ran VMS, Linux and BSD on it and all of them
> performed very well.  I wanted to try Windows NT but never got
> around to trying it.

Why would you run Linux or BSD on it...? You'd get a
far more pleasurable experience from just about any
modern x86/-64, Arm, etc. system, which hopefully goes
without saying.

I'm sure the point is arriving fast where a low-power
Arm single board system will emulate AXP faster than
arguably 'even' the most tricked out, max-spec'ed,
Multia/UDB would ever run.

VMS on the Multia/UDB perhaps has some 'curiosity'
value, being relatively unusual, yet with very few if
any actual practical purposes in terms of end usage
though...

Arguably the most 'reliable' OS choice is Digital/Tru64
UNIX, up to the latest version including patches up to
those released all the way in 2010, which runs fully
featured, in so far I'm aware, unlike the unofficial,
wholly unsupported and hacked-together mess of VMS V7.1
and V7.2 (where you could not install certain patches
and additional software, without the risk of breaking
fundamental hardware support).

I remember, just as a sort of experiment, I drove a
SCSI disk array with an LSM/AdvFS stripe set and a
custom external SCSI connector and self-made, custom,
back-panel. I even combined it with a compatible PCI
audio adapter, for some "multimedia" support and (non-
existent) 'functionality'.

Useful? Definitely not, but it was fun and interesting
on some level... for as long as it would run.

- MG

On 11/8/21 06:29, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> At the time, it was the cheapest AXP system.

There was no mistake about it, alright, it felt just as
cheap as it was...

> Right. These days, when EV7 hardware can be had for free, why go with a
> Multia?

With the x86-64 port of VMS around the corner, the cost
for such hardware is hard to justify... unless you're
some kind of Tru64 UNIX enthusiast, of course.

- MG

On 11/8/21 18:33, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> Mine didn't come with a fan at all.  I did add one and, as I said
> earlier, I never had a problem with overheating.

Are you being sarcastic or serious? I find it hard to tell at this
point.

- MG

On 11/8/21 6:31 PM, MG wrote:
> On 11/8/21 00:52, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> I used mine for years with never a failure.
>
> For approximately how long per 'boot'?

Usually a week or so. It wasn't my primary system but for a
while iot was my only Alpha.
>
>
>> The heat problem was well known.  Other than ensurinf that it was
>> always stood on end to allow for heat flow a small fan made this
>> a non-problem. > [...]
>> Never had any power supply problems.
>
> Good for you.
>
>
>> Usually too big and too expensive to get shipped to me and also
>> too big and noisy to run in the house.
>
> The Multia/UDB with a proper fan wasn't silent either, in so
> far I recall.

I used to mount small (~1.5 - 2") boxers and it was quieter than
the average PC of the era.

>
>
>> Multia's will do all that I need to do now and I really liked the
>> little box.  Ran VMS, Linux and BSD on it and all of them performed
>> very well.  I wanted to try Windows NT but never got around to trying it.
>
> Why would you run Linux or BSD on it...?  You'd get a
> far more pleasurable experience from just about any
> modern x86/-64, Arm, etc. system, which hopefully goes
> without saying.

Because I wanted to work with the Alpha architecture. I still run
Sparc every once n a while, too. (and there is no reason to mention
all my PDP-11's again. :-)

>
> I'm sure the point is arriving fast where a low-power
> Arm single board system will emulate AXP faster than
> arguably 'even' the most tricked out, max-spec'ed,
> Multia/UDB would ever run.

Maybe, but I have had very little luck getting VMS on an
Alpha emulator to do much that was useful. Even with
my PDP's and VAX I still prefer real hardware over any
emulated system.

>
> VMS on the Multia/UDB perhaps has some 'curiosity'
> value, being relatively unusual, yet with very few if
> any actual practical purposes in terms of end usage
> though...

I don't do this for a living any more so the question of
practicality doesn't come into it. It's all about what
I find to provide fun.

>
> Arguably the most 'reliable' OS choice is Digital/Tru64
> UNIX, up to the latest version including patches up to
> those released all the way in 2010, which runs fully
> featured, in so far I'm aware, unlike the unofficial,
> wholly unsupported and hacked-together mess of VMS V7.1
> and V7.2 (where you could not install certain patches
> and additional software, without the risk of breaking
> fundamental hardware support).

I have been doing Unix since V7. I still have at least six
different flavors available to me any time I want them. I
have never been intersted in Tru64. And as for support,
I'm just a Hobbyist. Support is not an issue.

>
> I remember, just as a sort of experiment, I drove a
> SCSI disk array with an LSM/AdvFS stripe set and a
> custom external SCSI connector and self-made, custom,
> back-panel.  I even combined it with a compatible PCI
> audio adapter, for some "multimedia" support and (non-
> existent) 'functionality'.
>
> Useful?  Definitely not, but it was fun and interesting
> on some level... for as long as it would run.
>

If everyone thinks like you there should be a lot of them
available. Send to me and keep them out of your landfills.

:-)

bill

On 11/8/21 6:34 PM, MG wrote:
> On 11/8/21 18:33, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> Mine didn't come with a fan at all.  I did add one and, as I said
>> earlier, I never had a problem with overheating.
>
> Are you being sarcastic or serious?  I find it hard to tell at this
> point.
>

I don't see what looks the least like sarcasm. I was dead serious.
Mine ran reliably as long as I had it. The only problem I ever had
was the stand to hold it vertical got brittle and broke.

bill

On 11/9/21 00:50, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> Maybe, but I have had very little luck getting VMS on an
> Alpha emulator to do much that was useful.  Even with
> my PDP's and VAX I still prefer real hardware over any
> emulated system.

Good point, many AXP emulators are messy and the ones
working best tend to be commercial products relegated
largely to Windows host platforms, on top of that, too.

I was also not terribly impressed with the performance
of some of these emulators. Maybe things improved since
then (i.e. half a decade or so ago, in my estimation).

> I don't do this for a living any more so the question of
> practicality doesn't come into it.  It's all about what
> I find to provide fun.

I don't run these old systems for a living either, but
I do value my time.

> I have been doing Unix since V7.  I still have at least six
> different flavors available to me any time I want them.  I
> have never been intersted in Tru64.  And as for support,
> I'm just a Hobbyist.  Support is not an issue.

I meant support in the sense of hardware support, e.g.
driver compatibility.

Digital/Tru64 UNIX is boring in my opinion, so I definitely
don't blame you there. I found little unique about Tru64,
compared to, say, IRIX or even SunOS/Solaris had to offer
back in the day.

However, there are some interesting features here and there,
like TruCluster and the aforementioned LSM, plus it feeling
very well-integrated and 'wholesome´, with good documentation.
But in the end boring with a very limited userland and close
to non-existent F/OSS offering (except what you'd be able to
build yourself, if you wanted to give a crack at getting e.g.
pkgsrc stuff to build).

> If everyone thinks like you there should be a lot of them
> available.  Send to me and keep them out of your landfills.

That actually wouldn't surprise me, that many did,
considering the many disappointed user reports over
the years and "as-is"/'parts systems' offered. The
parts cannibalization alone amounts to roughly the
same in the end.

I always thought that the Multi/UDB was very poor
advertisement for AXP and DEC in general, especially
for anyone who wanted to see what the architecture/
platform is about and never experienced anything else.

You were lucky, in terms of having a unit that ran
reliably, but there are lots of reports of people
who struggled to get their systems to run and, if
at all, for longer periods of time.

If it wasn't for the business-driven price inflation,
an HP Alpha{Station,Server} DS15(A) would be a more
sensible choice and it's only marginally bigger since
you still need to sacrifice 'desk space', as the
Multia/UDB with the hacked-together VMS bits didn't
allow for headless operation anyway, in so far I
recall.

- MG

On 11/9/2021 5:19 AM, MG wrote:
> On 11/9/21 00:50, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> Maybe, but I have had very little luck getting VMS on an
>> Alpha emulator to do much that was useful.  Even with
>> my PDP's and VAX I still prefer real hardware over any
>> emulated system.
>
> Good point, many AXP emulators are messy and the ones
> working best tend to be commercial products relegated
> largely to Windows host platforms, on top of that, too.
>
> I was also not terribly impressed with the performance
> of some of these emulators.  Maybe things improved since
> then (i.e. half a decade or so ago, in my estimation).

ISA emulation using plain interpretation means a lot of
overhead.

And only the expensive commercial products comes with
JIT compilation.

Arne

On Monday, November 8, 2021 at 12:36:03 PM UTC+13, MG wrote:
> On 11/7/21 16:07, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> >
> > I used to have one of these. Sadly, I let it go during my last
> > household move. Any chance anyone still has these sitting around
> > taking up space (OK, they don't really take up much space) that
> > would want to get rid of them? I would love to have a couple to
> > play with again. Pretty sure I even have the stuff for how to
> > get VMS to run on them stored away in my files somewhere.
> What's the fascination with this particular system, I wonder, it's
> most certainly one of the least reliable and failure-prone systems
> that had a DEC logo on it.
>
> In total I had two of them (one ending up to be a de facto 'parts'
> system), where both had terrible heat-dissipation (even after the
> 'community-recommended' modifications and operating it vertically)
> and overall power supply/-related issues. I remember that even if
> I could get one of these systems up and running, it wouldn't run
> reliably for a longer period of time.

Any chance you remember the symptoms of these problems?

I was having a play with my one (a 233MHz VX42B) a few days ago
but it seemed to be having intermittent problems. A blank screen
plus clicking from the speaker. Sometimes this happened on power-on,
other times it appeared to happen after leaving it at the ARC/AlphaBIOS
firmware for a while. Seems like unhappy hardware but I'm not sure
what or how repairable.

(I'd rather play with a real AlphaStation but they seem no easier to come by
in NZ than the Multias vertical stand)

On 11/10/21 05:20, David Goodwin wrote:
> Any chance you remember the symptoms of these problems?
>
> I was having a play with my one (a 233MHz VX42B) a few days ago
> but it seemed to be having intermittent problems. A blank screen
> plus clicking from the speaker. Sometimes this happened on power-on,
> other times it appeared to happen after leaving it at the ARC/AlphaBIOS
> firmware for a while. Seems like unhappy hardware but I'm not sure
> what or how repairable.

That would actually be a very common problem for me, for both of
the systems I owned and one of which had the same (socketed)
processor as yours. Your description is quite literally what I
often experienced, which is quite damning.

The clicking is presumably caused by interference or other issues
in the PSU, either due to overheating or 'worn out' components,
common culprits like e.g. faulty capacitors.

(To be clear, for anyone who might be interested, I experienced these
problems after recommended fan upgrades, NVM/TOY battery upgrades
and so forth.)

> (I'd rather play with a real AlphaStation but they seem no easier to
> come by in NZ than the Multias vertical stand)

That's unfortunate, but I hope you become lucky enough in finding one.

- MG