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computers / comp.os.vms / Re: http://www.vmspython.org/

SubjectAuthor
* http://www.vmspython.org/Jan-Erik Söderholm
`* Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Jan-Erik Söderholm
 `* Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Arne Vajhøj
  +- Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Lawrence D’Oliveiro
  `* Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Jan-Erik Söderholm
   `* Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Arne Vajhøj
    `* Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Arne Vajhøj
     +- Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Lawrence D’Oliveiro
     `* Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Jan-Erik Söderholm
      `* Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Arne Vajhøj
       `* Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Dave Froble
        +* Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Arne Vajhøj
        |+- Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Robert A. Brooks
        |`* Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Lawrence D’Oliveiro
        | +- Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Vitaly Pustovetov
        | `* Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Arne Vajhøj
        |  `- Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Lawrence D’Oliveiro
        `- Re: http://www.vmspython.org/Paul Anderson

1
http://www.vmspython.org/

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From: jan-erik...@telia.com (Jan-Erik Söderholm)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: http://www.vmspython.org/
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 17:03:58 +0200
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 by: Jan-Erik Söderholm - Tue, 26 Oct 2021 15:03 UTC

Hi.

Can't reach http://www.vmspython.org/ at the moment.
Does anyone know what's up here? It would be sad if
that port would not be available any more. And VSI
only has IA64 versions of Python...

Jan-Erik.

Re: http://www.vmspython.org/

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From: jan-erik...@telia.com (Jan-Erik Söderholm)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: http://www.vmspython.org/
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 00:16:53 +0100
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 by: Jan-Erik Söderholm - Tue, 2 Nov 2021 23:16 UTC

Den 2021-10-26 kl. 17:03, skrev Jan-Erik Söderholm:
> Hi.
>
> Can't reach http://www.vmspython.org/ at the moment.
> Does anyone know what's up here? It would be sad if
> that port would not be available any more. And VSI
> only has IA64 versions of Python...
>
> Jan-Erik.

Replying to myself, and for anyone interested...

JFP has shut down his site with his Python port for Alpha (and IA64).
When asked, he sent me an explanation for this that I can understand.
I have also sent a question to VSI asking what their view is on
Python for Alpha.

And as I said, just if anyone is interested in Python on Alpha...

Jan-Erik.

Re: http://www.vmspython.org/

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 by: Arne Vajhøj - Tue, 2 Nov 2021 23:21 UTC

On 11/2/2021 7:16 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2021-10-26 kl. 17:03, skrev Jan-Erik Söderholm:
>> Can't reach http://www.vmspython.org/ at the moment.
>> Does anyone know what's up here? It would be sad if
>> that port would not be available any more. And VSI
>> only has IA64 versions of Python...
>
> Replying to myself, and for anyone interested...
>
> JFP has shut down his site with his Python port for Alpha (and IA64).
> When asked, he sent me an explanation for this that I can understand.

We can make a guess: after spending 15 years or more maintaining this
for the mostly ungrateful users he has changed his priorities.

> I have also sent a question to VSI asking what their view is on
> Python for Alpha.
>
> And as I said, just if anyone is interested in Python on Alpha...

I believe the source code is available so anyone that want should be
able to build from source.

Arne

Re: http://www.vmspython.org/

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Subject: Re: http://www.vmspython.org/
From: lawrence...@gmail.com (Lawrence D’Oliveiro)
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 by: Lawrence D’Oliveir - Tue, 2 Nov 2021 23:48 UTC

On Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 12:21:21 PM UTC+13, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> We can make a guess: after spending 15 years or more maintaining this
> for the mostly ungrateful users he has changed his priorities.

An open-source project does not measure its success by the number of passive users, but by the level of active contributions from the community.

Too often I see this attitude from people looking on open-source software as being no different from proprietary products from big companies. The most common symptom of this is when they complain about claimed deficiencies in the product, without stepping forward to offer fixes. Or sponsoring someone who can make those fixes.

Re: http://www.vmspython.org/

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From: jan-erik...@telia.com (Jan-Erik Söderholm)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: http://www.vmspython.org/
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 by: Jan-Erik Söderholm - Tue, 2 Nov 2021 23:48 UTC

Den 2021-11-03 kl. 00:21, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
> On 11/2/2021 7:16 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2021-10-26 kl. 17:03, skrev Jan-Erik Söderholm:
>>> Can't reach http://www.vmspython.org/ at the moment.
>>> Does anyone know what's up here? It would be sad if
>>> that port would not be available any more. And VSI
>>> only has IA64 versions of Python...
>>
>> Replying to myself, and for anyone interested...
>>
>> JFP has shut down his site with his Python port for Alpha (and IA64).
>> When asked, he sent me an explanation for this that I can understand.
>
> We can make a guess: after spending 15 years or more maintaining this
> for the mostly ungrateful users he has changed his priorities.

The reply from JFP was not pointing against the users.

>
>> I have also sent a question to VSI asking what their view is on
>> Python for Alpha.
>>
>> And as I said, just if anyone is interested in Python on Alpha...
>
> I believe the source code is available so anyone that want should be
> able to build from source.

What source? The sources for the JFP port and all the components?

>
> Arne
>

Re: http://www.vmspython.org/

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 by: Arne Vajhøj - Wed, 3 Nov 2021 01:56 UTC

On 11/2/2021 7:48 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2021-11-03 kl. 00:21, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>> On 11/2/2021 7:16 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> I have also sent a question to VSI asking what their view is on
>>> Python for Alpha.
>>>
>>> And as I said, just if anyone is interested in Python on Alpha...
>>
>> I believe the source code is available so anyone that want should be
>> able to build from source.
>
> What source? The sources for the JFP port and all the components?

Yes.

I do not recall any details but I believe the source was
available.

Arne

Re: http://www.vmspython.org/

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 by: Arne Vajhøj - Wed, 3 Nov 2021 02:01 UTC

On 11/2/2021 9:56 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 11/2/2021 7:48 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2021-11-03 kl. 00:21, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>>> On 11/2/2021 7:16 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>> I have also sent a question to VSI asking what their view is on
>>>> Python for Alpha.
>>>>
>>>> And as I said, just if anyone is interested in Python on Alpha...
>>>
>>> I believe the source code is available so anyone that want should be
>>> able to build from source.
>>
>> What source? The sources for the JFP port and all the components?
>
> Yes.
>
> I do not recall any details but I believe the source was
> available.

Looks like it still is.

https://foss.vmsgenerations.org/openvms

Arne

Re: http://www.vmspython.org/

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Subject: Re: http://www.vmspython.org/
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 by: Lawrence D’Oliveir - Wed, 3 Nov 2021 03:45 UTC

On Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 3:01:07 PM UTC+13, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

> https://foss.vmsgenerations.org/openvms

Expired certificate!

Shouldn’t happen with Let’s Encrypt ...

Re: http://www.vmspython.org/

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Subject: Re: http://www.vmspython.org/
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 by: Jan-Erik Söderholm - Wed, 3 Nov 2021 07:11 UTC

Den 2021-11-03 kl. 03:01, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
> On 11/2/2021 9:56 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 11/2/2021 7:48 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> Den 2021-11-03 kl. 00:21, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>>>> On 11/2/2021 7:16 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>> I have also sent a question to VSI asking what their view is on
>>>>> Python for Alpha.
>>>>>
>>>>> And as I said, just if anyone is interested in Python on Alpha...
>>>>
>>>> I believe the source code is available so anyone that want should be
>>>> able to build from source.
>>>
>>> What source? The sources for the JFP port and all the components?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> I do not recall any details but I believe the source was
>> available.
>
> Looks like it still is.
>
> https://foss.vmsgenerations.org/openvms
>
> Arne
>

OK, right, on that site. I get an SEC_ERROR_EXPIRED_CERTIFICATE.
And for some reason not the usual button to bypass that error.

I looked some years ago to setup the build environment for Alpha,
but it was not an easy task...

Re: http://www.vmspython.org/

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 by: Arne Vajhøj - Wed, 3 Nov 2021 13:00 UTC

On 11/3/2021 3:11 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2021-11-03 kl. 03:01, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>> On 11/2/2021 9:56 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 11/2/2021 7:48 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>> Den 2021-11-03 kl. 00:21, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>>>>> On 11/2/2021 7:16 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>> I have also sent a question to VSI asking what their view is on
>>>>>> Python for Alpha.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And as I said, just if anyone is interested in Python on Alpha...
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe the source code is available so anyone that want should be
>>>>> able to build from source.
>>>>
>>>> What source? The sources for the JFP port and all the components?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> I do not recall any details but I believe the source was
>>> available.
>>
>> Looks like it still is.
>>
>> https://foss.vmsgenerations.org/openvms
>
> OK, right, on that site. I get an SEC_ERROR_EXPIRED_CERTIFICATE.
> And for some reason not the usual button to bypass that error.

I could get in with FF.

> I looked some years ago to setup the build environment for Alpha,
> but it was not an easy task...

True.

Lot of code.

Lot of disk space to build.

Lot CPU time and wall time to build.

Arne

Re: http://www.vmspython.org/

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Subject: Re: http://www.vmspython.org/
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 by: Dave Froble - Wed, 3 Nov 2021 15:12 UTC

On 11/3/2021 9:00 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 11/3/2021 3:11 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2021-11-03 kl. 03:01, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>>> On 11/2/2021 9:56 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 11/2/2021 7:48 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>> Den 2021-11-03 kl. 00:21, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>>>>>> On 11/2/2021 7:16 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>> I have also sent a question to VSI asking what their view is on
>>>>>>> Python for Alpha.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And as I said, just if anyone is interested in Python on Alpha...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe the source code is available so anyone that want should be
>>>>>> able to build from source.
>>>>>
>>>>> What source? The sources for the JFP port and all the components?
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>> I do not recall any details but I believe the source was
>>>> available.
>>>
>>> Looks like it still is.
>>>
>>> https://foss.vmsgenerations.org/openvms
>>
>> OK, right, on that site. I get an SEC_ERROR_EXPIRED_CERTIFICATE.
>> And for some reason not the usual button to bypass that error.
>
> I could get in with FF.
>
>> I looked some years ago to setup the build environment for Alpha,
>> but it was not an easy task...
>
> True.
>
> Lot of code.

Define "lots" ..

> Lot of disk space to build.

Disk space is cheap.

Device Device Error Volume Free Trans Mnt
Name Status Count Label Space Count Cnt
ITANIC$DKB0: Mounted 0 I64SYS 133.46GB 255 1
ITANIC$DKB1: Mounted 0 DISK1 132.78GB 1 1
ITANIC$DKB2: Mounted 0 DISK2 136.69GB 1 1
ITANIC$DKB3: Online 0

Need more than that?

> Lot CPU time and wall time to build.

Define "lots" ..

> Arne
>
>

But, I'm assuming C, and I don't do C.

Perhaps I could make the resources available ???

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

Re: http://www.vmspython.org/

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 by: Arne Vajhøj - Wed, 3 Nov 2021 16:04 UTC

On 11/3/2021 11:12 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 11/3/2021 9:00 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 11/3/2021 3:11 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> Den 2021-11-03 kl. 03:01, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>>>> On 11/2/2021 9:56 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>> On 11/2/2021 7:48 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>> Den 2021-11-03 kl. 00:21, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>>>>>>> On 11/2/2021 7:16 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>>> I have also sent a question to VSI asking what their view is on
>>>>>>>> Python for Alpha.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And as I said, just if anyone is interested in Python on Alpha...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe the source code is available so anyone that want should be
>>>>>>> able to build from source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What source? The sources for the JFP port and all the components?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not recall any details but I believe the source was
>>>>> available.
>>>>
>>>> Looks like it still is.
>>>>
>>>> https://foss.vmsgenerations.org/openvms
>>>
>>> OK, right, on that site. I get an SEC_ERROR_EXPIRED_CERTIFICATE.
>>> And for some reason not the usual button to bypass that error.
>>
>> I could get in with FF.
>>
>>> I looked some years ago to setup the build environment for Alpha,
>>> but it was not an easy task...
>>
>> True.
>>
>> Lot of code.
>
> Define "lots" ..
>
>> Lot of disk space to build.
>
> Disk space is cheap.
>
> Device                  Device           Error   Volume          Free
> Trans Mnt
>  Name                   Status           Count    Label          Space
> Count Cnt
> ITANIC$DKB0:            Mounted              0 I64SYS         133.46GB
> 255   1
> ITANIC$DKB1:            Mounted              0 DISK1
> 132.78GB     1   1
> ITANIC$DKB2:            Mounted              0 DISK2
> 136.69GB     1   1
> ITANIC$DKB3:            Online               0
>
> Need more than that?
>
>> Lot CPU time and wall time to build.
>
> Define "lots" ..

I don't know.

I know that the output of the build is over 150 MB.

(note that Jan-Erik is looking for Alpha not Itanium - VSI offer
Python for Itanium)

> But, I'm assuming C, and I don't do C.
>
> Perhaps I could make the resources available ???

If someone is willing to do the work and just need the system then
that would be great.

Any of the VMS Port people interested?

I know you already have a lot of stuff to maintain, but I also believe
that you have appropriate build setups.

Arne

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 by: Paul Anderson - Wed, 3 Nov 2021 16:15 UTC

On 11/3/21 11:12 AM, Dave Froble wrote:

> ITANIC$DKB0:            Mounted              0 I64SYS         133.46GB

;-)

Re: http://www.vmspython.org/

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 by: Robert A. Brooks - Wed, 3 Nov 2021 16:16 UTC

On 11/3/2021 12:04 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

> (note that Jan-Erik is looking for Alpha not Itanium - VSI offer
> Python for Itanium)

The DECUServe system (eisner.decus.org) would be a fine place for
that work to be done.

--

-- Rob

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Subject: Re: http://www.vmspython.org/
From: lawrence...@gmail.com (Lawrence D’Oliveiro)
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 by: Lawrence D’Oliveir - Wed, 10 Nov 2021 06:50 UTC

On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 5:04:34 AM UTC+13, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> ... VSI offer Python for Itanium ...

They even have a beta of 3.10, which impresses me. But, looking at the compatibility issues <https://wiki.vmssoftware.com/VMS_Python_compatibility_issues>:

    The functions select() and poll() work only with sockets

Kind of like Microsoft Windows ...

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Subject: Re: http://www.vmspython.org/
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 by: Vitaly Pustovetov - Wed, 10 Nov 2021 07:08 UTC

среда, 10 ноября 2021 г. в 09:50:12 UTC+3, Lawrence D’Oliveiro:
> They even have a beta of 3.10, which impresses me. But, looking at the compatibility issues <https://wiki.vmssoftware.com/VMS_Python_compatibility_issues>:
>
> The functions select() and poll() work only with sockets
>
> Kind of like Microsoft Windows ...

We have already added support for pipes, mailboxes, etc. to the CRTL's poll.. This was done when porting Postgres. But it will probably help Python after installing a new version of the CRTL.

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From: arn...@vajhoej.dk (Arne Vajhøj)
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 by: Arne Vajhøj - Wed, 10 Nov 2021 13:09 UTC

On 11/10/2021 1:50 AM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 5:04:34 AM UTC+13, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> ... VSI offer Python for Itanium ...
>
> They even have a beta of 3.10, which impresses me. But, looking at the compatibility issues <https://wiki.vmssoftware.com/VMS_Python_compatibility_issues>:
>
>     The functions select() and poll() work only with sockets
>
> Kind of like Microsoft Windows ...

Note that it is not a Python issue but a CRTL/VMS issue.

Arne

Re: http://www.vmspython.org/

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=18644&group=comp.os.vms#18644

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Subject: Re: http://www.vmspython.org/
From: lawrence...@gmail.com (Lawrence D’Oliveiro)
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 by: Lawrence D’Oliveir - Wed, 10 Nov 2021 21:20 UTC

On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 2:09:30 AM UTC+13, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 1:50 AM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 5:04:34 AM UTC+13, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> >> ... VSI offer Python for Itanium ...
>>
>> They even have a beta of 3.10, which impresses me. But, looking at the compatibility
>> issues <https://wiki.vmssoftware.com/VMS_Python_compatibility_issues>:
>>
>> The functions select() and poll() work only with sockets
>>
>> Kind of like Microsoft Windows ...
>
> Note that it is not a Python issue but a CRTL/VMS issue.

It’s an OS issue on Windows, too.

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