I'm surprised that in recent EDT discussions no one here
mentioned K52/KED, the editors I remember using on RSX-11,
around 1980. EDT and the rest must have evolved
from them - the mapping and functions are 100% identical.

https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=959

I remember clearly when a colleague showed it to me, and
I shrugged it away. After all, I felt productive with
EDI. Where are the line numbers in KED? How do you
know where you are and how do you jump to line 55?
Moving around the screen just felt so inferior, almost a toy,
I was totally confused. Screen editing???

This is a lesson learned on how we reject things we do
not know, and can't appreciate until we force ourselves
to try them. To this day, I suffer from this... Yes,
forcing is the word. Laziness and habits rule...

Ignoring the functionality of various editors, I think
turning the keypad section of DEC's keyboards into the
control center of many apps is a work of genius. It's
been used in Mail, NOTES, WPS+, etc., more or less
consistently, and it was easy to switch and learn
new mappings. Why? Because PF2 in all apps would show
you what the keys do!

I've used DEFINE KEY on the keypad (and the F keys) extensively
in DCL, and this is still how I navigate and issue MOUNTs,
SHOWs, SETs, DIRs, SEARCH, the incredibly boring SET DEFAULTs, etc.
Many of my keys execute DCL commands, others are elaborate .COM files.
I try to replicate this on other platforms; on Windows, AutoHotkey makes
life easy for me.

On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 1:14:19 PM UTC-6, Slo wrote:
> I'm surprised that in recent EDT discussions no one here
> mentioned K52/KED, the editors I remember using on RSX-11,
> around 1980. EDT and the rest must have evolved
> from them - the mapping and functions are 100% identical.
> ….

I was glad to have EDT/KED across RT-11, RSX, VMS as a common but capable editor. This covered about 80% of my editing. on these platforms using the Keypad and the modeless approach. Teco filled my needs for a tool for more sophisticated text manipulation. On Unix machines, I often used Emacs with the EDT emulation.

The muscle memory turned out to be strong to this day. I found myself wanting the same editing tool for Mac and Linux platforms. Mike Rieker's EDT implementation is quite good and I now use it regularly.

I have a photo of an EDT 'keypad condom' from the 1980's for newbies until they learned the keypad: http://williambader.com/museum/cit101/01keyboardcondom.jpg

In article <efba1e6e-99a0-4324-9b43-75e60520d4aen@googlegroups.com>,
William <william.bader@gmail.com> writes:

> I have a photo of an EDT 'keypad condom' from the 1980's for newbies until they learned the keypad: http://williambader.com/museum/cit101/01keyboardcondom.jpg

Yes, using them is why VMS does not get computer viruses.

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 4:24:02 AM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> In article <efba1e6e-99a0-4324...@googlegroups.com>,
> William <willia...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I have a photo of an EDT 'keypad condom' from the 1980's for newbies until they learned the keypad: http://williambader.com/museum/cit101/01keyboardcondom.jpg
> Yes, using them is why VMS does not get computer viruses.

I had forgotten about those. I guess that's why the VT's population has declined so drastically.

Slo <slovuj@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm surprised that in recent EDT discussions no one here
> mentioned K52/KED, the editors I remember using on RSX-11,
> around 1980. EDT and the rest must have evolved
> from them - the mapping and functions are 100% identical.
>
> https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=959
>
> I remember clearly when a colleague showed it to me, and
> I shrugged it away. After all, I felt productive with
> EDI. Where are the line numbers in KED? How do you
> know where you are and how do you jump to line 55?
> Moving around the screen just felt so inferior, almost a toy,
> I was totally confused. Screen editing???

Went to RSX11M school - two weeks in Bedford - way back when.
They had us use EDI. But got back home and began using EDT
version 1. Quite limited and not much like the screen mode
in V2.

When EDT 2.0 arrived for 11M it was much nicer, but overlaid to
the hilt. Better on 11M+ with supervisor mode libraries and
separate I&D space. I decided it was maybe Bliss and being
cross-compiled on the 36 bit systems and therefore suffered
from a bit of bloat compared to the other editors.

Did not use KED until later when I got an RT-11 system
at home. Do not know if it was EDT or KED that was the
original.

George

On 05/01/2022 12:10, George Cornelius wrote:
> Slo <slovuj@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm surprised that in recent EDT discussions no one here
>> mentioned K52/KED, the editors I remember using on RSX-11,
>> around 1980. EDT and the rest must have evolved
>> from them - the mapping and functions are 100% identical.
>>
>> https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=959
>>
>> I remember clearly when a colleague showed it to me, and
>> I shrugged it away. After all, I felt productive with
>> EDI. Where are the line numbers in KED? How do you
>> know where you are and how do you jump to line 55?
>> Moving around the screen just felt so inferior, almost a toy,
>> I was totally confused. Screen editing???
>
> Went to RSX11M school - two weeks in Bedford - way back when.
> They had us use EDI. But got back home and began using EDT
> version 1. Quite limited and not much like the screen mode
> in V2.
>
> When EDT 2.0 arrived for 11M it was much nicer, but overlaid to
> the hilt. Better on 11M+ with supervisor mode libraries and
> separate I&D space. I decided it was maybe Bliss and being
> cross-compiled on the 36 bit systems and therefore suffered
> from a bit of bloat compared to the other editors.
>
> Did not use KED until later when I got an RT-11 system
> at home. Do not know if it was EDT or KED that was the
> original.
>
> George
>

IIRC in early versions of RSTS, KED would open any file, including the user/password list ACCT.SYS
useful in case you lost your password, or needed to login to [1,2]
Nobody gave any notice to security, everyone was trusted...

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