Developers and community members are debating what’s needed to keep interest growing in OpenVMS. On the VMS newsgroup, a discussion is underway, more than a month of it, surrounding openings for the OS. Answers to the question about momentum cover well-traveled ground. Some of the solutions stand out as repeats of the HP 3000’s struggles.

Read more...
https://legacyos.org/what-will-drive-more-openvms-adoption/

Honestly, I think that any new users will probably be coming out of the hobbyist/community license program. Basically people who try it out and use it for personal projects, and decide that they like it so much compared to Linux or Windows that when the time comes, they push to use VMS as a server platform for a work project. For this to happen, though, VMS needs to actually have all the pieces in place to serve a modern web app. This means not just a web server, but things like PHP, Python, node.js, etc. And a DBMS that folks can actually use. While Oracle may be planning to port Rdb to x86 eventually, it's not there yet, and even when it comes, will not have any hobbyist option available to allow new users to get to know it. This needs to be fixed, either by beating Oracle with a clue stick until something happens (unlikely) or by updating the woefully outdated version of MariaDB currently available for VMS.

Documentation specifically aimed at new users who are primarily familiar with Linux of Window would be a help, as would a more reasonable set of default system parameter values that don't require an AUTOGEN cycle every time a significant software package is installed.

Mike

On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 2:49:49 PM UTC-5, kfar...@gmail.com wrote:
> Developers and community members are debating what’s needed to keep interest growing in OpenVMS. On the VMS newsgroup, a discussion is underway, more than a month of it, surrounding openings for the OS. Answers to the question about momentum cover well-traveled ground. Some of the solutions stand out as repeats of the HP 3000’s struggles.
>
> Read more...
> https://legacyos.org/what-will-drive-more-openvms-adoption/

Den 2021-12-03 kl. 05:44, skrev Mike K.:
> Honestly, I think that any new users will probably be coming out of the hobbyist/community license program. Basically people who try it out and use it for personal projects, and decide that they like it so much compared to Linux or Windows that when the time comes, they push to use VMS as a server platform for a work project. For this to happen, though, VMS needs to actually have all the pieces in place to serve a modern web app. This means not just a web server, but things like PHP, Python, node.js, etc. And a DBMS that folks can actually use. While Oracle may be planning to port Rdb to x86 eventually, it's not there yet, and even when it comes, will not have any hobbyist option available to allow new users to get to know it. This needs to be fixed, either by beating Oracle with a clue stick until something happens (unlikely) or by updating the woefully outdated version of MariaDB currently available for VMS.
>
> Documentation specifically aimed at new users who are primarily familiar with Linux of Window would be a help, as would a more reasonable set of default system parameter values that don't require an AUTOGEN cycle every time a significant software package is installed.
>
> Mike
>
> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 2:49:49 PM UTC-5, kfar...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Developers and community members are debating what’s needed to keep interest growing in OpenVMS. On the VMS newsgroup, a discussion is underway, more than a month of it, surrounding openings for the OS. Answers to the question about momentum cover well-traveled ground. Some of the solutions stand out as repeats of the HP 3000’s struggles.
>>
>> Read more...
>> https://legacyos.org/what-will-drive-more-openvms-adoption/

As far as I know, and I have not seen that change lately, Rdb is free
to use for development or non-commercial use. That includes development
for commercial use. So if you are a buniess and have one development
and one production box, one of them is free.

Now, I'm no sure I see that making new VMS users queing up.

In article <sochlr$v4t$1@dont-email.me>,
=?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?= <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
writes:

> As far as I know, and I have not seen that change lately, Rdb is free
> to use for development

Yes.

> or non-commercial use.

No.

> That includes development
> for commercial use.

Actually, ONLY development for commercial use.

One is not allowed to use Rdb as a hobbyist, or for a non-profit entity
(which is by definition non-commercial), or whatever.

Den 2021-12-03 kl. 08:59, skrev Phillip Helbig (undress to reply):
> In article <sochlr$v4t$1@dont-email.me>,
> =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?= <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
> writes:
>
>> As far as I know, and I have not seen that change lately, Rdb is free
>> to use for development
>
> Yes.
>
>> or non-commercial use.
>
> No.
>
>> That includes development
>> for commercial use.
>
> Actually, ONLY development for commercial use.
>
> One is not allowed to use Rdb as a hobbyist, or for a non-profit entity
> (which is by definition non-commercial), or whatever.
>

OK. I do not know of any good source for it (in either way), but I seam
to remember from 6-7 years ago that it was OK for "hobbyist" use.

On 12/3/2021 3:21 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2021-12-03 kl. 08:59, skrev Phillip Helbig (undress to reply):
>> In article <sochlr$v4t$1@dont-email.me>,
>> =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?= <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
>> writes:
>>
>>> As far as I know, and I have not seen that change lately, Rdb is free
>>> to use for development
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> or non-commercial use.
>>
>> No.
>>
>>> That includes development
>>> for commercial use.
>>
>> Actually, ONLY development for commercial use.
>>
>> One is not allowed to use Rdb as a hobbyist, or for a non-profit entity
>> (which is by definition non-commercial), or whatever.
>
> OK. I do not know of any good source for it (in either way), but I seam
> to remember from 6-7 years ago that it was OK for "hobbyist" use.

The license wording is:

<quote>
Oracle grants You a nonexclusive, nontransferable, limited license to
internally use the Programs, subject to the restrictions stated in this
Agreement, only for the purpose of developing, testing, prototyping, and
demonstrating Your application and only as long as Your application has
not been used for any data processing, business, commercial, or
production purposes, and not for any other purpose.
</quote>

I am not a lawyer but it seems pretty straight forward to me:
- development and test is OK no matter whether it is a commercial
software, open source or just for fun
- any usage to store real data whether it is commercial
or non-commercial (incl. catalog of your books) is not OK

Arne

In article <61aa18a0$0$700$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
=?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:

> On 12/3/2021 3:21 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> > Den 2021-12-03 kl. 08:59, skrev Phillip Helbig (undress to reply):
> >> In article <sochlr$v4t$1@dont-email.me>,
> >> =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?= <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
> >> writes:
> >>
> >>> As far as I know, and I have not seen that change lately, Rdb is free
> >>> to use for development
> >>
> >> Yes.
> >>
> >>> or non-commercial use.
> >>
> >> No.
> >>
> >>> That includes development
> >>> for commercial use.
> >>
> >> Actually, ONLY development for commercial use.
> >>
> >> One is not allowed to use Rdb as a hobbyist, or for a non-profit entity
> >> (which is by definition non-commercial), or whatever.
> >
> > OK. I do not know of any good source for it (in either way), but I seam
> > to remember from 6-7 years ago that it was OK for "hobbyist" use.
>
> The license wording is:
>
> <quote>
> Oracle grants You a nonexclusive, nontransferable, limited license to
> internally use the Programs, subject to the restrictions stated in this
> Agreement, only for the purpose of developing, testing, prototyping, and
> demonstrating Your application and only as long as Your application has
> not been used for any data processing, business, commercial, or
> production purposes, and not for any other purpose.
> </quote>

I seem to remember that "application" had been defined to be commercial.
Maybe my memory is wrong or maybe the wording has changed.

On 12/3/2021 10:15 AM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> In article <61aa18a0$0$700$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
> =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:
>
>> On 12/3/2021 3:21 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> Den 2021-12-03 kl. 08:59, skrev Phillip Helbig (undress to reply):
>>>> In article <sochlr$v4t$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?= <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
>>>> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> As far as I know, and I have not seen that change lately, Rdb is free
>>>>> to use for development
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>>> or non-commercial use.
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>>> That includes development
>>>>> for commercial use.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, ONLY development for commercial use.
>>>>
>>>> One is not allowed to use Rdb as a hobbyist, or for a non-profit entity
>>>> (which is by definition non-commercial), or whatever.
>>>
>>> OK. I do not know of any good source for it (in either way), but I seam
>>> to remember from 6-7 years ago that it was OK for "hobbyist" use.
>>
>> The license wording is:
>>
>> <quote>
>> Oracle grants You a nonexclusive, nontransferable, limited license to
>> internally use the Programs, subject to the restrictions stated in this
>> Agreement, only for the purpose of developing, testing, prototyping, and
>> demonstrating Your application and only as long as Your application has
>> not been used for any data processing, business, commercial, or
>> production purposes, and not for any other purpose.
>> </quote>
>
> I seem to remember that "application" had been defined to be commercial.
> Maybe my memory is wrong or maybe the wording has changed.
>

Aren't all hobbyists working on a "commercial application" ?

They may never come up with something that sells, but they could still be
"working" on something.

:-)

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 12/3/2021 10:53 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
> Aren't all hobbyists working on a "commercial application" ?
>
> They may never come up with something that sells, but they could still
> be "working" on something.
>
> :-)

If they are working on something that they think would become
a commercial application then they should join ISV program instead
of CL program.

Arne

In article <sodehc$tf6$1@dont-email.me>, Dave Froble
<davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:

> On 12/3/2021 10:15 AM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> > In article <61aa18a0$0$700$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
> > =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:
> >
> >> On 12/3/2021 3:21 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> >>> Den 2021-12-03 kl. 08:59, skrev Phillip Helbig (undress to reply):
> >>>> In article <sochlr$v4t$1@dont-email.me>,
> >>>> =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?= <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
> >>>> writes:
> >>>>
> >>>>> As far as I know, and I have not seen that change lately, Rdb is free
> >>>>> to use for development
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes.
> >>>>
> >>>>> or non-commercial use.
> >>>>
> >>>> No.
> >>>>
> >>>>> That includes development
> >>>>> for commercial use.
> >>>>
> >>>> Actually, ONLY development for commercial use.
> >>>>
> >>>> One is not allowed to use Rdb as a hobbyist, or for a non-profit entity
> >>>> (which is by definition non-commercial), or whatever.
> >>>
> >>> OK. I do not know of any good source for it (in either way), but I seam
> >>> to remember from 6-7 years ago that it was OK for "hobbyist" use.
> >>
> >> The license wording is:
> >>
> >> <quote>
> >> Oracle grants You a nonexclusive, nontransferable, limited license to
> >> internally use the Programs, subject to the restrictions stated in this
> >> Agreement, only for the purpose of developing, testing, prototyping, and
> >> demonstrating Your application and only as long as Your application has
> >> not been used for any data processing, business, commercial, or
> >> production purposes, and not for any other purpose.
> >> </quote>
> >
> > I seem to remember that "application" had been defined to be commercial.
> > Maybe my memory is wrong or maybe the wording has changed.
> >
>
> Aren't all hobbyists working on a "commercial application" ?
>
> They may never come up with something that sells, but they could still be
> "working" on something.
>
> :-)

Not sure what the smiley means. Many, probably most or all, hobbyists
work on hobbies. :-) Some might also have day jobs involving VMS, of
course. They can work on many things, which is fine if they are not
commercial. Of course, not everything which is not commercial is a
hobby, but IIRC the Rdb license allowed only development of a commercial
application.

In article <61aa4030$0$699$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
=?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:

> On 12/3/2021 10:53 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
> > Aren't all hobbyists working on a "commercial application" ?
> >
> > They may never come up with something that sells, but they could still
> > be "working" on something.
> >
> > :-)
>
> If they are working on something that they think would become
> a commercial application then they should join ISV program instead
> of CL program.

For VMS, yes, of course, but what about for Rdb?

On 12/3/2021 11:09 AM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> In article <61aa4030$0$699$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
> =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:
>> On 12/3/2021 10:53 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>> Aren't all hobbyists working on a "commercial application" ?
>>>
>>> They may never come up with something that sells, but they could still
>>> be "working" on something.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>
>> If they are working on something that they think would become
>> a commercial application then they should join ISV program instead
>> of CL program.
>
> For VMS, yes, of course, but what about for Rdb?

My understanding:

VMS Rdb
production commercial license commercial license
development ISV free developer license
fun CL free developer license

Arne

On 12/3/2021 11:05 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/3/2021 10:53 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
>> Aren't all hobbyists working on a "commercial application" ?
>>
>> They may never come up with something that sells, but they could still be
>> "working" on something.
>>
>> :-)
>
> If they are working on something that they think would become
> a commercial application then they should join ISV program instead
> of CL program.
>
> Arne
>

For VMS I totally agree, and have advocated that in the past. But Arne, the
discussion was about Rdb.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 2021-12-02, Mike K. <madcrow.maxwell@gmail.com> wrote:
> Honestly, I think that any new users will probably be coming out of the hobbyist/community license program. Basically people who try it out and use it for personal projects, and decide that they like it so much compared to Linux or Windows that when the time comes, they push to use VMS as a server platform for a work project. For this to happen, though, VMS needs to actually have all the pieces in place to serve a modern web app. This means not just a web server, but things like PHP, Python, node.js, etc. And a DBMS that folks can actually use. While Oracle may be planning to port Rdb to x86 eventually, it's not there yet, and even when it comes, will not have any hobbyist option available to allow new users to get to know it. This needs to be fixed, either by beating Oracle with a clue stick until something happens (unlikely) or by updating the woefully outdated version of MariaDB currently available for VMS.
>
> Documentation specifically aimed at new users who are primarily familiar with Linux of Window would be a help, as would a more reasonable set of default system parameter values that don't require an AUTOGEN cycle every time a significant software package is installed.
>

I think VSI have done some work with parameter defaults so at least
some of them will not be an issue on x86-64 VMS.

Is there any option in VMS where, if a system/process goes past some
percentage (say 80% to 90%) of any system parameter designed to limit
use of a resource, VMS will issue an OPCOM warning about that system
parameter (and maybe log it elsewhere as well) ? If not, would this
be a good option to add to VMS ?

BTW, I do think that at this point, the type of people wanting to
explore VMS without a specific reason are also the same type of
people who just want to explore z/OS because its there.

I wonder if there's any benefit to VSI (and VMS growth/retention in
general) if VSI construct and run a z/OS style Master the Mainframe program ?

IBM's Master the Mainframe program is here:

https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/education/zxplore

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 12/3/2021 12:52 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 12/3/2021 11:05 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/3/2021 10:53 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>> Aren't all hobbyists working on a "commercial application" ?
>>>
>>> They may never come up with something that sells, but they could
>>> still be
>>> "working" on something.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>
>> If they are working on something that they think would become
>> a commercial application then they should join ISV program instead
>> of CL program.
>
> For VMS I totally agree, and have advocated that in the past.  But Arne,
> the discussion was about Rdb.

They would not be hobbyists if they are working on something
that they think would become a commercial application.

Arne

On 12/3/2021 1:55 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> I think VSI have done some work with parameter defaults so at least
> some of them will not be an issue on x86-64 VMS.
>
> Is there any option in VMS where, if a system/process goes past some
> percentage (say 80% to 90%) of any system parameter designed to limit
> use of a resource, VMS will issue an OPCOM warning about that system
> parameter (and maybe log it elsewhere as well) ? If not, would this
> be a good option to add to VMS ?

I think VSI should get rid of >95% of SYSGEN and SYSUAF limits.

They made sense with a 256 KB VAX but not so much on a 256 GB x86-64.

Arne

On 12/3/21 10:53 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 12/3/2021 10:15 AM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>> In article <61aa18a0$0$700$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
>> =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:
>>
>>> On 12/3/2021 3:21 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>> Den 2021-12-03 kl. 08:59, skrev Phillip Helbig (undress to reply):
>>>>> In article <sochlr$v4t$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?= <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
>>>>> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as I know, and I have not seen that change lately, Rdb is free
>>>>>> to use for development
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>
>>>>>> or non-commercial use.
>>>>>
>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>>>> That includes development
>>>>>> for commercial use.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, ONLY development for commercial use.
>>>>>
>>>>> One is not allowed to use Rdb as a hobbyist, or for a non-profit
>>>>> entity
>>>>> (which is by definition non-commercial), or whatever.
>>>>
>>>> OK. I do not know of any good source for it (in either way), but I seam
>>>> to remember from 6-7 years ago that it was OK for "hobbyist" use.
>>>
>>> The license wording is:
>>>
>>> <quote>
>>> Oracle grants You a nonexclusive, nontransferable, limited license to
>>> internally use the Programs, subject to the restrictions stated in this
>>> Agreement, only for the purpose of developing, testing, prototyping, and
>>> demonstrating Your application and only as long as Your application has
>>> not been used for any data processing, business, commercial, or
>>> production purposes, and not for any other purpose.
>>> </quote>
>>
>> I seem to remember that "application" had been defined to be commercial.
>> Maybe my memory is wrong or maybe the wording has changed.
>>
>
> Aren't all hobbyists working on a "commercial application" ?
>

No.... :-)

> They may never come up with something that sells, but they could still
> be "working" on something.
>
> :-)
>

bill

Some sort of free license so that open source developers can do OpenVMS ports and so that sites like GitLab can give projects an option of including OpenVMS in CI pipelines. Otherwise, why would someone want to start a project on an OS that few people know and that has an old and limited set of ported tools?

On 05/12/2021 08:57, William wrote:
> Some sort of free license so that open source developers can do OpenVMS ports and so that sites like GitLab can give projects an option of including OpenVMS in CI pipelines. Otherwise, why would someone want to start a project on an OS that few people know and that has an old and limited set of ported tools?
>

Isn't the community/hobbyist license just that? Or the ISV scheme?

--
Chris

In article <soi3r4$8c2$1@dont-email.me>, Chris Townley
<news@cct-net.co.uk> writes:

> On 05/12/2021 08:57, William wrote:
> > Some sort of free license so that open source developers can do
OpenVMS ports and so that sites like GitLab can give projects an option
of including OpenVMS in CI pipelines.

> Isn't the community/hobbyist license just that? Or the ISV scheme?

Hobbyist? No. ISV? Probably.

On 05/12/2021 11:30, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> In article <soi3r4$8c2$1@dont-email.me>, Chris Townley
> <news@cct-net.co.uk> writes:
>
>> On 05/12/2021 08:57, William wrote:
>>> Some sort of free license so that open source developers can do
> OpenVMS ports and so that sites like GitLab can give projects an option
> of including OpenVMS in CI pipelines.
>
>> Isn't the community/hobbyist license just that? Or the ISV scheme?
>
> Hobbyist? No. ISV? Probably.
>

From the VSI Website:

With the VSI Community Liсense Program, members of the community can
download OpenVMS for free for learning, open source development, and
exchanging knowledge of the operating system on Alpha and Integrity
systems. This program replaces the HP Hobbyist program.

--
Chris

In article <soibcl$1ee$1@dont-email.me>, Chris Townley
<news@cct-net.co.uk> writes:

> On 05/12/2021 11:30, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> > In article <soi3r4$8c2$1@dont-email.me>, Chris Townley
> > <news@cct-net.co.uk> writes:
> >
> >> On 05/12/2021 08:57, William wrote:
> >>> Some sort of free license so that open source developers can do
> > OpenVMS ports and so that sites like GitLab can give projects an option
> > of including OpenVMS in CI pipelines.
> >
> >> Isn't the community/hobbyist license just that? Or the ISV scheme?
> >
> > Hobbyist? No. ISV? Probably.
> >
>
> From the VSI Website:
>
> With the VSI Community License Program, members of the community can
> download OpenVMS for free for learning, open source development, and
> exchanging knowledge of the operating system on Alpha and Integrity
> systems. This program replaces the HP Hobbyist program.

The wording has changed a bit. But it is still non-commercial.
Open-source can be non-commercial, but it can also be commercial.

On 12/5/2021 7:42 AM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> In article <soibcl$1ee$1@dont-email.me>, Chris Townley
> <news@cct-net.co.uk> writes:
>
>> On 05/12/2021 11:30, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>>> In article <soi3r4$8c2$1@dont-email.me>, Chris Townley
>>> <news@cct-net.co.uk> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 05/12/2021 08:57, William wrote:
>>>>> Some sort of free license so that open source developers can do
>>> OpenVMS ports and so that sites like GitLab can give projects an option
>>> of including OpenVMS in CI pipelines.
>>>
>>>> Isn't the community/hobbyist license just that? Or the ISV scheme?
>>>
>>> Hobbyist? No. ISV? Probably.
>>>
>>
>> From the VSI Website:
>>
>> With the VSI Community License Program, members of the community can
>> download OpenVMS for free for learning, open source development, and
>> exchanging knowledge of the operating system on Alpha and Integrity
>> systems. This program replaces the HP Hobbyist program.
>
> The wording has changed a bit. But it is still non-commercial.
> Open-source can be non-commercial, but it can also be commercial.

Yes - some open source is commercial - and would not fall
under CL terms - but they would definitely fall under ISV
terms.

But the 99.9% of the open source for VMS that is non-commercial
will be fine with CL.

Arne

On 12/5/2021 7:42 AM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> In article <soibcl$1ee$1@dont-email.me>, Chris Townley
> <news@cct-net.co.uk> writes:
>
>> On 05/12/2021 11:30, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>>> In article <soi3r4$8c2$1@dont-email.me>, Chris Townley
>>> <news@cct-net.co.uk> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 05/12/2021 08:57, William wrote:
>>>>> Some sort of free license so that open source developers can do
>>> OpenVMS ports and so that sites like GitLab can give projects an option
>>> of including OpenVMS in CI pipelines.
>>>
>>>> Isn't the community/hobbyist license just that? Or the ISV scheme?
>>>
>>> Hobbyist? No. ISV? Probably.
>>>
>>
>> From the VSI Website:
>>
>> With the VSI Community License Program, members of the community can
>> download OpenVMS for free for learning, open source development, and
>> exchanging knowledge of the operating system on Alpha and Integrity
>> systems. This program replaces the HP Hobbyist program.
>
> The wording has changed a bit. But it is still non-commercial.
> Open-source can be non-commercial, but it can also be commercial.
>

Isn't there a difference between working on commercial software, such as porting
to VMS, and using commercial software?

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

In article <soin99$1ac$1@dont-email.me>, Dave Froble
<davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:

> >> With the VSI Community License Program, members of the community can
> >> download OpenVMS for free for learning, open source development, and
> >> exchanging knowledge of the operating system on Alpha and Integrity
> >> systems. This program replaces the HP Hobbyist program.
> >
> > The wording has changed a bit. But it is still non-commercial.
> > Open-source can be non-commercial, but it can also be commercial.
>
> Isn't there a difference between working on commercial software, such
> as porting to VMS, and using commercial software?

Using commercial software has nothing to do with VMS licenses.

AT BEST, the hobbyist license could be construed to be valid for working
on commercial software, but without receiving any sort of financial
reward, directly or indirectly, for doing so.