(..I thought the group would be interested in this..)

https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/

(..A few paragraphs of interest..)

Dell is no longer shipping energy-hungry gaming PCs to
certain states in America because they demand more energy
than local standards allow.

Customers seeking to purchase, for example, an Alienware
Aurora Ryzen Edition R10 Gaming Desktop from Dell's website
and have it shipped to California are now presented with a
message that tells buyers they're out of luck.

"This product cannot be shipped to the states of California,
Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Vermont or Washington due to power
consumption regulations adopted by those states," the
website says. "Any orders placed that are bound for those
states will be canceled."

....

Such concern about energy efficiency appears to be
appropriate given the findings of a 2015 Semiconductor
Industry Association report that, given a benchmark system
of 10**-14 Joules/per bit transition, "computing will
not be sustainable by 2040, when the energy required for
computing will exceed the estimated world's energy
production."

On 2021-07-30, Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> wrote:
> (..I thought the group would be interested in this..)
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
>
> (..A few paragraphs of interest..)
>
> Dell is no longer shipping energy-hungry gaming PCs to
> certain states in America because they demand more energy
> than local standards allow.
>
> Customers seeking to purchase, for example, an Alienware
> Aurora Ryzen Edition R10 Gaming Desktop from Dell's website
> and have it shipped to California are now presented with a
> message that tells buyers they're out of luck.
>
> "This product cannot be shipped to the states of California,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Vermont or Washington due to power
> consumption regulations adopted by those states," the
> website says. "Any orders placed that are bound for those
> states will be canceled."
>
> ...
>
> Such concern about energy efficiency appears to be
> appropriate given the findings of a 2015 Semiconductor
> Industry Association report that, given a benchmark system
> of 10**-14 Joules/per bit transition, "computing will
> not be sustainable by 2040, when the energy required for
> computing will exceed the estimated world's energy
> production."
Heh, I play Baldurs Gate 3 without fan on M1, while
desktops have overheating issues :P

--
bmaxa now listens Yammat FM

On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 6:14:53 PM UTC-5, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> (..I thought the group would be interested in this..)
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
>
> (..A few paragraphs of interest..)
>
> Dell is no longer shipping energy-hungry gaming PCs to
> certain states in America because they demand more energy
> than local standards allow.
>
> Customers seeking to purchase, for example, an Alienware
> Aurora Ryzen Edition R10 Gaming Desktop from Dell's website
> and have it shipped to California are now presented with a
> message that tells buyers they're out of luck.
>
> "This product cannot be shipped to the states of California,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Vermont or Washington due to power
> consumption regulations adopted by those states," the
> website says. "Any orders placed that are bound for those
> states will be canceled."
>
> ...
>
> Such concern about energy efficiency appears to be
> appropriate given the findings of a 2015 Semiconductor
> Industry Association report that, given a benchmark system
> of 10**-14 Joules/per bit transition, "computing will
> not be sustainable by 2040, when the energy required for
> computing will exceed the estimated world's energy
> production."
<
We could push that back a few years by banning advertisements
on the internet. maybe as much as 1/2 of the energy of the internet
is advertising.

On 2021-07-31, MitchAlsup <MitchAlsup@aol.com> wrote:
> On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 6:14:53 PM UTC-5, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>> (..I thought the group would be interested in this..)
>>
>> https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
>>
>> (..A few paragraphs of interest..)
>>
>> Dell is no longer shipping energy-hungry gaming PCs to
>> certain states in America because they demand more energy
>> than local standards allow.
>>
>> Customers seeking to purchase, for example, an Alienware
>> Aurora Ryzen Edition R10 Gaming Desktop from Dell's website
>> and have it shipped to California are now presented with a
>> message that tells buyers they're out of luck.
>>
>> "This product cannot be shipped to the states of California,
>> Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Vermont or Washington due to power
>> consumption regulations adopted by those states," the
>> website says. "Any orders placed that are bound for those
>> states will be canceled."
>>
>> ...
>>
>> Such concern about energy efficiency appears to be
>> appropriate given the findings of a 2015 Semiconductor
>> Industry Association report that, given a benchmark system
>> of 10**-14 Joules/per bit transition, "computing will
>> not be sustainable by 2040, when the energy required for
>> computing will exceed the estimated world's energy
>> production."
><
> We could push that back a few years by banning advertisements
> on the internet. maybe as much as 1/2 of the energy of the internet
> is advertising.
Or banning Google, Yahoo, .... which are responsible for more
then 90% advertisments on Internet.

--
bmaxa now listens Yammat FM

On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 7:04:52 PM UTC-5, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
> On 2021-07-31, MitchAlsup <Mitch...@aol.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 6:14:53 PM UTC-5, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> >> (..I thought the group would be interested in this..)
> >>
> >> https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
> >>
> >> (..A few paragraphs of interest..)
> >>
> >> Dell is no longer shipping energy-hungry gaming PCs to
> >> certain states in America because they demand more energy
> >> than local standards allow.
> >>
> >> Customers seeking to purchase, for example, an Alienware
> >> Aurora Ryzen Edition R10 Gaming Desktop from Dell's website
> >> and have it shipped to California are now presented with a
> >> message that tells buyers they're out of luck.
> >>
> >> "This product cannot be shipped to the states of California,
> >> Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Vermont or Washington due to power
> >> consumption regulations adopted by those states," the
> >> website says. "Any orders placed that are bound for those
> >> states will be canceled."
> >>
> >> ...
> >>
> >> Such concern about energy efficiency appears to be
> >> appropriate given the findings of a 2015 Semiconductor
> >> Industry Association report that, given a benchmark system
> >> of 10**-14 Joules/per bit transition, "computing will
> >> not be sustainable by 2040, when the energy required for
> >> computing will exceed the estimated world's energy
> >> production."
> ><
> > We could push that back a few years by banning advertisements
> > on the internet. maybe as much as 1/2 of the energy of the internet
> > is advertising.
> Or banning Google, Yahoo, .... which are responsible for more
> then 90% advertisments on Internet.
<
Google and Yahoo are just advertisement redirectors. Although one
could ban redirectors...........
> --
> bmaxa now listens Yammat FM

On 7/30/2021 7:29 PM, MitchAlsup wrote:
> On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 7:04:52 PM UTC-5, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
>> On 2021-07-31, MitchAlsup <Mitch...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 6:14:53 PM UTC-5, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>>> (..I thought the group would be interested in this..)
>>>>
>>>> https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
>>>>
>>>> (..A few paragraphs of interest..)
>>>>
>>>> Dell is no longer shipping energy-hungry gaming PCs to
>>>> certain states in America because they demand more energy
>>>> than local standards allow.
>>>>
>>>> Customers seeking to purchase, for example, an Alienware
>>>> Aurora Ryzen Edition R10 Gaming Desktop from Dell's website
>>>> and have it shipped to California are now presented with a
>>>> message that tells buyers they're out of luck.
>>>>
>>>> "This product cannot be shipped to the states of California,
>>>> Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Vermont or Washington due to power
>>>> consumption regulations adopted by those states," the
>>>> website says. "Any orders placed that are bound for those
>>>> states will be canceled."
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> Such concern about energy efficiency appears to be
>>>> appropriate given the findings of a 2015 Semiconductor
>>>> Industry Association report that, given a benchmark system
>>>> of 10**-14 Joules/per bit transition, "computing will
>>>> not be sustainable by 2040, when the energy required for
>>>> computing will exceed the estimated world's energy
>>>> production."
>>> <
>>> We could push that back a few years by banning advertisements
>>> on the internet. maybe as much as 1/2 of the energy of the internet
>>> is advertising.
>> Or banning Google, Yahoo, .... which are responsible for more
>> then 90% advertisments on Internet.
> <
> Google and Yahoo are just advertisement redirectors. Although one
> could ban redirectors...........

How about we ban ads that are anything more than a static image which
has the ability to open a link, if explicitly clicked on.

Any ads which run JavaScript code, play video files and/or make noise,
grab control of the browser window, launch pop-ups, or automatically
redirect the browser tab to another site, are explicitly banned...

Similar would go for ads which cause visual confusion and/or try to
hijack parts of the host website's UI, ...

A lot of this stuff is one of the main reasons I tend to run an
adblocker by default on most sites. I am not trying to deprive site
owners of revenue, I would just rather protect myself from "that sort of
crap".

Actually, personally, I would rather see it if most websites were to
revert to the "Web 1.0" style or mostly text with some links and images,
where one can more reliably reverse-click on a link and open it in a new
tab, ...

Things like video players or interactive elements (such as JS programs
which draw to a canvas) would be "special features".

Would also like to see an end to the "GIFs" that are actually just a
short MP4 video or similar that plays in a loop (or, if we have some
other sort of short-looping animation, maybe it is a format that is "at
least semi-efficient", *1).

*1: For this sort of content, one can generally get similar results by
using an additional Deflate-compressor stage in top of RPZA or CRAM
video, with the advantage that it is *much* cheaper decode on the
computational front (and the compression in traditional video codecs are
much less effective for low-res video with only 5-20 frames).

....

>> --
>> bmaxa now listens Yammat FM

On 2021-07-31, MitchAlsup <MitchAlsup@aol.com> wrote:
> On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 7:04:52 PM UTC-5, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
>> On 2021-07-31, MitchAlsup <Mitch...@aol.com> wrote:
>> > On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 6:14:53 PM UTC-5, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>> >> (..I thought the group would be interested in this..)
>> >>
>> >> https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
>> >>
>> >> (..A few paragraphs of interest..)
>> >>
>> >> Dell is no longer shipping energy-hungry gaming PCs to
>> >> certain states in America because they demand more energy
>> >> than local standards allow.
>> >>
>> >> Customers seeking to purchase, for example, an Alienware
>> >> Aurora Ryzen Edition R10 Gaming Desktop from Dell's website
>> >> and have it shipped to California are now presented with a
>> >> message that tells buyers they're out of luck.
>> >>
>> >> "This product cannot be shipped to the states of California,
>> >> Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Vermont or Washington due to power
>> >> consumption regulations adopted by those states," the
>> >> website says. "Any orders placed that are bound for those
>> >> states will be canceled."
>> >>
>> >> ...
>> >>
>> >> Such concern about energy efficiency appears to be
>> >> appropriate given the findings of a 2015 Semiconductor
>> >> Industry Association report that, given a benchmark system
>> >> of 10**-14 Joules/per bit transition, "computing will
>> >> not be sustainable by 2040, when the energy required for
>> >> computing will exceed the estimated world's energy
>> >> production."
>> ><
>> > We could push that back a few years by banning advertisements
>> > on the internet. maybe as much as 1/2 of the energy of the internet
>> > is advertising.
>> Or banning Google, Yahoo, .... which are responsible for more
>> then 90% advertisments on Internet.
><
> Google and Yahoo are just advertisement redirectors. Although one
> could ban redirectors...........
Ye, but they serve adds on webpages and provide service to deploy
adds evierywhere. Without them advertisers couldn't spam internet.
Google payed 4 billions or so for DoubleClick, Yahoo some 600 millions
for similar service. Google's majority of profit comes from adds.

--
bmaxa now listens Yammat FM

On 31/07/2021 02:00, MitchAlsup wrote:
> On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 6:14:53 PM UTC-5, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>> (..I thought the group would be interested in this..)
>>
>> https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
>>
>> (..A few paragraphs of interest..)
>>
>> Dell is no longer shipping energy-hungry gaming PCs to
>> certain states in America because they demand more energy
>> than local standards allow.
>>
>> Customers seeking to purchase, for example, an Alienware
>> Aurora Ryzen Edition R10 Gaming Desktop from Dell's website
>> and have it shipped to California are now presented with a
>> message that tells buyers they're out of luck.
>>
>> "This product cannot be shipped to the states of California,
>> Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Vermont or Washington due to power
>> consumption regulations adopted by those states," the
>> website says. "Any orders placed that are bound for those
>> states will be canceled."
>>
>> ...
>>
>> Such concern about energy efficiency appears to be
>> appropriate given the findings of a 2015 Semiconductor
>> Industry Association report that, given a benchmark system
>> of 10**-14 Joules/per bit transition, "computing will
>> not be sustainable by 2040, when the energy required for
>> computing will exceed the estimated world's energy
>> production."
> <
> We could push that back a few years by banning advertisements
> on the internet. maybe as much as 1/2 of the energy of the internet
> is advertising.
>

It is not remotely anywhere close to that. (I've nothing against trying
to reduce the levels of advertising on the net, especially the more
obnoxious video types.)

Bitcoin, and to a lesser extent other cryptocurrencies, are far more of
a problem. Bitcoin mining consumes countries-worth of electricity and
the effort is all, by design, utterly pointless.

Another major cost is the data centres that are watching, tracking and
correlating everyone. The power cost for Facebook, Google (and of
course the NSA and suchlike) is not so much in keeping all the data they
can on everyone they can, it is the way they correlate it together.
That involves continuously searching through the data and sorting it,
rather than just storing it.

On 2021-07-31, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> On 31/07/2021 02:00, MitchAlsup wrote:
>> On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 6:14:53 PM UTC-5, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>> (..I thought the group would be interested in this..)
>>>
>>> https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
>>>
>>> (..A few paragraphs of interest..)
>>>
>>> Dell is no longer shipping energy-hungry gaming PCs to
>>> certain states in America because they demand more energy
>>> than local standards allow.
>>>
>>> Customers seeking to purchase, for example, an Alienware
>>> Aurora Ryzen Edition R10 Gaming Desktop from Dell's website
>>> and have it shipped to California are now presented with a
>>> message that tells buyers they're out of luck.
>>>
>>> "This product cannot be shipped to the states of California,
>>> Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Vermont or Washington due to power
>>> consumption regulations adopted by those states," the
>>> website says. "Any orders placed that are bound for those
>>> states will be canceled."
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Such concern about energy efficiency appears to be
>>> appropriate given the findings of a 2015 Semiconductor
>>> Industry Association report that, given a benchmark system
>>> of 10**-14 Joules/per bit transition, "computing will
>>> not be sustainable by 2040, when the energy required for
>>> computing will exceed the estimated world's energy
>>> production."
>> <
>> We could push that back a few years by banning advertisements
>> on the internet. maybe as much as 1/2 of the energy of the internet
>> is advertising.
>>
>
> It is not remotely anywhere close to that. (I've nothing against trying
> to reduce the levels of advertising on the net, especially the more
> obnoxious video types.)
>
> Bitcoin, and to a lesser extent other cryptocurrencies, are far more of
> a problem. Bitcoin mining consumes countries-worth of electricity and
> the effort is all, by design, utterly pointless.
>

Well all web is forsing cryptography on open sites, I beleive that
consumes more energy then bitcoin minning :P

--
bmaxa now listens Ob-Neob Radio

Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
> On 2021-07-31, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> It is not remotely anywhere close to that. (I've nothing against trying
>> to reduce the levels of advertising on the net, especially the more
>> obnoxious video types.)
>>
>> Bitcoin, and to a lesser extent other cryptocurrencies, are far more of
>> a problem. Bitcoin mining consumes countries-worth of electricity and
>> the effort is all, by design, utterly pointless.
>>
>
> Well all web is forsing cryptography on open sites, I beleive that
> consumes more energy then bitcoin minning :P

Feel free to believe that, you would almost certainly be wrong though.

The actual cost of running a https pipelined connection (with a single
setup for multiple separate objects) is down in the noise since all
servers and most clients have HW AES acceleration.

Terje

--
- <Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

On 2021-07-31, Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> wrote:
> Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
>> On 2021-07-31, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>>> It is not remotely anywhere close to that. (I've nothing against trying
>>> to reduce the levels of advertising on the net, especially the more
>>> obnoxious video types.)
>>>
>>> Bitcoin, and to a lesser extent other cryptocurrencies, are far more of
>>> a problem. Bitcoin mining consumes countries-worth of electricity and
>>> the effort is all, by design, utterly pointless.
>>>
>>
>> Well all web is forsing cryptography on open sites, I beleive that
>> consumes more energy then bitcoin minning :P
>
> Feel free to believe that, you would almost certainly be wrong though.
>
> The actual cost of running a https pipelined connection (with a single
> setup for multiple separate objects) is down in the noise since all
> servers and most clients have HW AES acceleration.
>

Well probably you are right, but these are big numbers :P
Mining of bitcoins nowadays is only done on ASiC (GPU is pointless),
there are not many of them :P

> Terje
>
>

--
bmaxa now listens Ob-Neob Radio

Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> schrieb:

> Well probably you are right, but these are big numbers :P
> Mining of bitcoins nowadays is only done on ASiC (GPU is pointless),

There are enough people doing so to make GPUs rather scarce
and expensive, unfortunately.

On 2021-07-31, Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
> Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> schrieb:
>
>> Well probably you are right, but these are big numbers :P
>> Mining of bitcoins nowadays is only done on ASiC (GPU is pointless),
>
> There are enough people doing so to make GPUs rather scarce
> and expensive, unfortunately.
I think that GPU mining is done for newer cryptocurrencies.
Or if they just want to pay electricity bills without profit :P

--
bmaxa now listens Ob-Neob Radio

> Mining of bitcoins nowadays is only done on ASiC (GPU is pointless),
> there are not many of them :P

And yet, it eats up enormous amounts of energy.
Last I heard (a year or two ago) it's more than 10GW.

Stefan

Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> schrieb:
> On 2021-07-31, Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>> Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>
>>> Well probably you are right, but these are big numbers :P
>>> Mining of bitcoins nowadays is only done on ASiC (GPU is pointless),
>>
>> There are enough people doing so to make GPUs rather scarce
>> and expensive, unfortunately.
> I think that GPU mining is done for newer cryptocurrencies.
> Or if they just want to pay electricity bills without profit :P

Or not pay their electricity bills, which of course increases
the profit margin by quite a bit, unless they get caught:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-57280115

On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 5:53:39 PM UTC-6, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:

> Heh, I play Baldurs Gate 3 without fan on M1, while
> desktops have overheating issues :P

It's a good thing that Apple went to the energy-efficient
M1, because the amount of energy a computer is allowed
to use is increased... if it has a higher "expandability
score". And, as we all know, Macs are not expandable...
except the five-figure model.

John Savard

On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 2:14:53 AM UTC+3, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> (..I thought the group would be interested in this..)
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
>
> (..A few paragraphs of interest..)
>
> Dell is no longer shipping energy-hungry gaming PCs to
> certain states in America because they demand more energy
> than local standards allow.
>
> Customers seeking to purchase, for example, an Alienware
> Aurora Ryzen Edition R10 Gaming Desktop from Dell's website
> and have it shipped to California are now presented with a
> message that tells buyers they're out of luck.
>
> "This product cannot be shipped to the states of California,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Vermont or Washington due to power
> consumption regulations adopted by those states," the
> website says. "Any orders placed that are bound for those
> states will be canceled."
>
> ...
>
> Such concern about energy efficiency appears to be
> appropriate given the findings of a 2015 Semiconductor
> Industry Association report that, given a benchmark system
> of 10**-14 Joules/per bit transition, "computing will
> not be sustainable by 2040, when the energy required for
> computing will exceed the estimated world's energy
> production."

I am more than a little disappointed by poster's reactions in this thread.
I was expecting to see more of libertarian sentiment, which was traditionally strongly represented on Usenet .
SJWs took over?

On 2021-07-31, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 5:53:39 PM UTC-6, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
>
>> Heh, I play Baldurs Gate 3 without fan on M1, while
>> desktops have overheating issues :P
>
> It's a good thing that Apple went to the energy-efficient
> M1, because the amount of energy a computer is allowed
> to use is increased... if it has a higher "expandability
> score". And, as we all know, Macs are not expandable...
> except the five-figure model.

Yes, true, but I don't regret :P
Even use macOS comfortably now :P
Here is info for baldurs gate 3 on M1:
ANE Power: 0 mW
DRAM Power: 865 mW
CPU Power: 821 mW
GPU Power: 3134 mW
Package Power: 5510 mW

**** Thermal pressure ****

Current pressure level: Heavy

**** GPU usage ****

GPU active frequency: 822 MHz
GPU active residency: 100.00% (396 MHz: 0% 528 MHz: 0% 720 MHz: 50% 924 MHz: 50% 1128 MHz: 0% 1278 MHz: 0%)
GPU requested frequency: (396 MHz: 0% 528 MHz: 0% 720 MHz: 0% 924 MHz: 0% 1128 MHz: 0% 1278 MHz: 100%)
GPU idle residency: 0.00%
GPU Power: 3132 mW

Here is about desktops:
1.
Got a new PC just so i can run Baldur's Gate 3, Ryzen 5 2600, GTX 1660 super,
it runs fine at 60 fps for the first like 30 minutes in, but then the gpu hits
90°C and shuts it down to like 30 fps and sometimes lower. The idle
temperature is around 40°C, i'm not sure if it needs thermal paste or if it
really is just the game.

2. [HEADING=2]Overheating] to taxing on gpu? (GTX 1060)[/HEADING]

I have checked thermal paste, dust, connectors, drivers, etc. It's not the
first time in my life this happened, so did all i know that fixes the issue and
that this time didn't. Which is what i wrote at the start, so. I'm aware that
the engines used for these games are generally unreasonably taxing, but as
today this didn't happened to any of games except for Baldurs Gate 3, really
sad. I might have to change some hardware/fans just for this game, but they do
run. Do devs consult engineers at the time they start programming? how will
this affect computers? how can we make this less taxing on computers? etc.

3.
Just wanted to chime in and say I'm experiencing the same thing on my 970.
Outdated card, but even on the lowest settings this game is running EXTREMELY
hot.

This laptop feels like playing tetris :P
Hardly warm, without fan :P
>
> John Savard

--
bmaxa now listens Ob-Neob Radio

Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> wrote:
>(..I thought the group would be interested in this..)
> https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
>(..A few paragraphs of interest..)
>
>Dell is no longer shipping energy-hungry gaming PCs to
>certain states in America because they demand more energy
>than local standards allow.

You do realize that your summary is complete nonsense? Yes, I know you
just copied it but there's LOTS of warning signs in the article.

The article is kind of light on details and the author is severely
confused, I don't have a very high opinion of TheRegister but even
they should have started digging into what kind crap Dell/Alienware
tried to sell them when they noticed that the regulation parts they
quote is speaking EXCLUSIVELY about IDLE POWER.

It appears that no other company seems to have any issues with this
regulation affecting their hardware.

Basically, somehow Dell messed up the IDLE power on a couple of their
PC models so they didn't meet the rules they themselves were heavily
involved in back in 2014-2016.

Yes, the rules are from CEC but were worked out with (IE mostly by)
"industry partners", like Intel, Dell and HP just to name a few big
names.

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/325225-new-pc-power-rules-only-apply-to-idle-as-alienware-squawks-aloneI

On 7/30/2021 4:14 PM, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> (..I thought the group would be interested in this..)
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
>
> (..A few paragraphs of interest..)
>
> Dell is no longer shipping energy-hungry gaming PCs to
> certain states in America because they demand more energy
> than local standards allow.
>
> Customers seeking to purchase, for example, an Alienware
> Aurora Ryzen Edition R10 Gaming Desktop from Dell's website
> and have it shipped to California are now presented with a
> message that tells buyers they're out of luck.
>
> "This product cannot be shipped to the states of California,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Vermont or Washington due to power
> consumption regulations adopted by those states," the
> website says. "Any orders placed that are bound for those
> states will be canceled."
>
> ...
>
> Such concern about energy efficiency appears to be
> appropriate given the findings of a 2015 Semiconductor
> Industry Association report that, given a benchmark system
> of 10**-14 Joules/per bit transition, "computing will
> not be sustainable by 2040, when the energy required for
> computing will exceed the estimated world's energy
> production."
>

For some reason reading this is making me think of a scenario where
everybody on Earth has an electric car, and all plugged them in to
charge, all at once. Also, assuming just for an experiment, that nobody
had a local source of power, solar, wind, turbines turning by a flowing
stream of water, ect...

What would happen to the power grid?

Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 7/30/2021 4:14 PM, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>> Such concern about energy efficiency appears to be
>> appropriate given the findings of a 2015 Semiconductor
>> Industry Association report that, given a benchmark system
>> of 10**-14 Joules/per bit transition, "computing will
>> not be sustainable by 2040, when the energy required for
>> computing will exceed the estimated world's energy
>> production."
>>
>
> For some reason reading this is making me think of a scenario where
> everybody on Earth has an electric car, and all plugged them in to
> charge, all at once. Also, assuming just for an experiment, that nobody
> had a local source of power, solar, wind, turbines turning by a flowing
> stream of water, ect...
>
> What would happen to the power grid?

The same thing as every Friday on the island community of Hvaler with
4400 people that receives 20K+ weekend visitors, a large proportion of
them plugging in their EVs to recharge after the drive down from Oslo:

2-3 years ago the local power company instituted the first severe max
power charges in Norway, i.e. on top of the normal KWh price you also
have to pay a surchage (equivalent to 60-70 KWh of usage) per KW for the
3 peak hours each month. The result was that most home and cabin
electricity users quickly learned to not turn everything on at the same
time.

(Power here in Norway is currently measured continuously and aggregated
and uploaded every hour for each user.)

Terje

--
- <Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> schrieb:
> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:

>> For some reason reading this is making me think of a scenario where
>> everybody on Earth has an electric car, and all plugged them in to
>> charge, all at once. Also, assuming just for an experiment, that nobody
>> had a local source of power, solar, wind, turbines turning by a flowing
>> stream of water, ect...
>>
>> What would happen to the power grid?
>
> The same thing as every Friday on the island community of Hvaler with
> 4400 people that receives 20K+ weekend visitors, a large proportion of
> them plugging in their EVs to recharge after the drive down from Oslo:
>
> 2-3 years ago the local power company instituted the first severe max
> power charges in Norway, i.e. on top of the normal KWh price you also
> have to pay a surchage (equivalent to 60-70 KWh of usage) per KW for the
> 3 peak hours each month. The result was that most home and cabin
> electricity users quickly learned to not turn everything on at the same
> time.

Currently, electricity supply in most countries for private
customers is based on demand. However, the trend is clearly doing
towards a shortage economy.

In the extreme case, turning on electricity whenever you want or need
it will become a luxury only available to a select few.

> (Power here in Norway is currently measured continuously and aggregated
> and uploaded every hour for each user.)

.... which is, of course, the first step towards that kind of setup.

On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 2:03:14 PM UTC+3, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> Terje Mathisen <terje.m...@tmsw.no> schrieb:
> > Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>
> >> For some reason reading this is making me think of a scenario where
> >> everybody on Earth has an electric car, and all plugged them in to
> >> charge, all at once. Also, assuming just for an experiment, that nobody
> >> had a local source of power, solar, wind, turbines turning by a flowing
> >> stream of water, ect...
> >>
> >> What would happen to the power grid?
> >
> > The same thing as every Friday on the island community of Hvaler with
> > 4400 people that receives 20K+ weekend visitors, a large proportion of
> > them plugging in their EVs to recharge after the drive down from Oslo:
> >
> > 2-3 years ago the local power company instituted the first severe max
> > power charges in Norway, i.e. on top of the normal KWh price you also
> > have to pay a surchage (equivalent to 60-70 KWh of usage) per KW for the
> > 3 peak hours each month. The result was that most home and cabin
> > electricity users quickly learned to not turn everything on at the same
> > time.
> Currently, electricity supply in most countries for private
> customers is based on demand. However, the trend is clearly doing
> towards a shortage economy.
>
> In the extreme case, turning on electricity whenever you want or need
> it will become a luxury only available to a select few.
> > (Power here in Norway is currently measured continuously and aggregated
> > and uploaded every hour for each user.)
> ... which is, of course, the first step towards that kind of setup.

Norway currently (actually, 2014, I found no up to date data) is World #2 (after Iceland and ahead of Bahrain) in electric power consumption per capita.
And according to my understanding their hydro power resources are still far away from being fully exploited.
So, somehow I don't buy your prediction in this particular case.

In article <03a02706-ce03-4604-bd58-66cbb89a7d7cn@googlegroups.com>,
already5chosen@yahoo.com (Michael S) wrote:

> Norway currently (actually, 2014, I found no up to date data) is
> World #2 (after Iceland and ahead of Bahrain) in electric power
> consumption per capita.

All three countries have large aluminium refining industries. This uses
vast quantities of electricity, and hence is done where electricity is
cheapest.

John

Torbjorn Lindgren <tl@none.invalid> writes:

> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> wrote:
>
>> (..I thought the group would be interested in this..)
>> https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/dell_energy_pcs/
>> (..A few paragraphs of interest..)
>>
>> Dell is no longer shipping energy-hungry gaming PCs to
>> certain states in America because they demand more energy
>> than local standards allow.
>
> You do realize that your summary is complete nonsense? [...]

Nothing in my posting was meant as a summary. I copied a
few of the early paragraphs only because I thought people
might find them interesting, and to give some information
to help people decide whether they wanted to read the full
article.