Just curious what city it's in and who pays the bills. The login screen used to ask for donations, but it presently doesn't. Perhaps VSI is footing the bill?

EISNER is co-located in a data center of VSI since a couple of years.

Volker.

On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 5:43:26 AM UTC-5, Volker Halle wrote:
> EISNER is co-located in a data center of VSI since a couple of years.
>
> Volker.

Do you know what city? Whose data center? Just curious.

In article <a6553b0e-2769-49cd-9bf6-5e361524a8dcn@googlegroups.com>, "alanfe...@gmail.com" <alanfeldman48@gmail.com> writes:
>On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 5:43:26 AM UTC-5, Volker Halle wrote:
>> EISNER is co-located in a data center of VSI since a couple of years.
>>
>> Volker.
>
>Do you know what city? Whose data center? Just curious.

Well, VSI is in Burlington.

--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

On 12/19/2021 5:32 PM, VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> In article <a6553b0e-2769-49cd-9bf6-5e361524a8dcn@googlegroups.com>, "alanfe...@gmail.com" <alanfeldman48@gmail.com> writes:
>> On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 5:43:26 AM UTC-5, Volker Halle wrote:
>>> EISNER is co-located in a data center of VSI since a couple of years.
>>>
>>> Volker.
>>
>> Do you know what city? Whose data center? Just curious.
>
> Well, VSI is in Burlington.

Given the size of VSI and the fact that it is 2021 then there is a
pretty big probability that they use external hosting.

Arne

On 12/19/21 5:48 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/19/2021 5:32 PM, VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>> In article <a6553b0e-2769-49cd-9bf6-5e361524a8dcn@googlegroups.com>,
>> "alanfe...@gmail.com" <alanfeldman48@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 5:43:26 AM UTC-5, Volker Halle wrote:
>>>> EISNER is co-located in a data center of VSI since a couple of years.
>>>>
>>>> Volker.
>>>
>>> Do you know what city? Whose data center? Just curious.
>>
>> Well, VSI is in Burlington.
>
> Given the size of VSI and the fact that it is 2021 then there is a
> pretty big probability that they use external hosting.

I'm pretty sure they announced as much, possibly here. They had a bunch
of hardware at the original Bolton office, but at some point realized,
like so many have, that buildings that are comfortable for people and
buildings that are comfortable for servers are not always the same ones.

On 12/19/21 5:06 PM, Craig A. Berry wrote:
> at some point realized, like so many have, that buildings that are
> comfortable for people and buildings that are comfortable for servers
> are not always the same ones.

And yet I have taken to telling clients that if you are comfortable, the
server is also comfortable. Conversely, if you are uncomfortable (too
hot / cold), then the server is also uncomfortable.

This has applied to x86 workstations & servers for the better part of 20
years.

$EMPLOYER runs warehoused sized data centers with temperatures in the '80s.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 6:48:51 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/19/2021 5:32 PM, VAX...@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> > In article <a6553b0e-2769-49cd...@googlegroups.com>, "alanfe...@gmail.com" <alanfe...@gmail.com> writes:
> >> On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 5:43:26 AM UTC-5, Volker Halle wrote:
> >>> EISNER is co-located in a data center of VSI since a couple of years.
> >>>
> >>> Volker.
> >>
> >> Do you know what city? Whose data center? Just curious.
> >
> > Well, VSI is in Burlington.
> Given the size of VSI and the fact that it is 2021 then there is a
> pretty big probability that they use external hosting.
>
> Arne
Our hardware is in a data-center facility in Chelmsford MA.

On 12/19/2021 6:48 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/19/2021 5:32 PM, VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>> In article <a6553b0e-2769-49cd-9bf6-5e361524a8dcn@googlegroups.com>,
>> "alanfe...@gmail.com" <alanfeldman48@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 5:43:26 AM UTC-5, Volker Halle wrote:
>>>> EISNER is co-located in a data center of VSI since a couple of years.
>>>>
>>>> Volker.
>>>
>>> Do you know what city? Whose data center? Just curious.
>>
>> Well, VSI is in Burlington.
>
> Given the size of VSI and the fact that it is 2021 then there is a
> pretty big probability that they use external hosting.
>
> Arne
>
>

How many external hosting sites offer a DS20? That's what it was running on
last I heard.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

In article <spp4i9$k59$1@dont-email.me>, Dave Froble
<davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:

> How many external hosting sites offer a DS20? That's what it was running on
> last I heard.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "external hosting". Surely there
are some places where you can install anything you want.

Den 2021-12-20 kl. 02:31, skrev Grant Taylor:
> On 12/19/21 5:06 PM, Craig A. Berry wrote:
>> at some point realized, like so many have, that buildings that are
>> comfortable for people and buildings that are comfortable for servers are
>> not always the same ones.
>
> And yet I have taken to telling clients that if you are comfortable, the
> server is also comfortable.  Conversely, if you are uncomfortable (too hot
> / cold), then the server is also uncomfortable.
>
> This has applied to x86 workstations & servers for the better part of 20
> years.
>
> $EMPLOYER runs warehoused sized data centers with temperatures in the '80s.
>

Probably the same today as it was in the '80s.

On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 11:13:24 PM UTC-8, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:

(snip)

> I guess it depends on what you mean by "external hosting". Surely there
> are some places where you can install anything you want.

As far as I know, there are ones that offer empty rack space, such that
you supply the hardware. It has to be rack mountable, though.

On 20/12/2021 12:02, gah4 wrote:
> On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 11:13:24 PM UTC-8, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
>> I guess it depends on what you mean by "external hosting". Surely there
>> are some places where you can install anything you want.
>
> As far as I know, there are ones that offer empty rack space, such that
> you supply the hardware. It has to be rack mountable, though.

That's what we used - in a BT site (UK) in 2012 when we moved our head
office

--
Chris

On 12/19/21 8:31 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 12/19/21 5:06 PM, Craig A. Berry wrote:
>> at some point realized, like so many have, that buildings that are
>> comfortable for people and buildings that are comfortable for servers
>> are not always the same ones.
>
> And yet I have taken to telling clients that if you are comfortable, the
> server is also comfortable.  Conversely, if you are uncomfortable (too
> hot / cold), then the server is also uncomfortable.

Definitely wasn't true about the 1401. :-)

>
> This has applied to x86 workstations & servers for the better part of 20
> years.
>
> $EMPLOYER runs warehoused sized data centers with temperatures in the '80s.
>
>
>

bill

On 12/20/2021 12:32 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 12/19/2021 6:48 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/19/2021 5:32 PM, VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>>> In article <a6553b0e-2769-49cd-9bf6-5e361524a8dcn@googlegroups.com>,
>>> "alanfe...@gmail.com" <alanfeldman48@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 5:43:26 AM UTC-5, Volker Halle wrote:
>>>>> EISNER is co-located in a data center of VSI since a couple of years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Volker.
>>>>
>>>> Do you know what city? Whose data center? Just curious.
>>>
>>> Well, VSI is in Burlington.
>>
>> Given the size of VSI and the fact that it is 2021 then there is a
>> pretty big probability that they use external hosting.
>
> How many external hosting sites offer a DS20?  That's what it was
> running on last I heard.

Probably none.

But a lot of hosting facilities offer rack space where a
DS20 will fit.

Arne

On 12/20/2021 8:12 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/20/2021 12:32 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
>> On 12/19/2021 6:48 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 12/19/2021 5:32 PM, VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>>>> In article <a6553b0e-2769-49cd-9bf6-5e361524a8dcn@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> "alanfe...@gmail.com" <alanfeldman48@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 5:43:26 AM UTC-5, Volker Halle wrote:
>>>>>> EISNER is co-located in a data center of VSI since a couple of years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Volker.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you know what city? Whose data center? Just curious.
>>>>
>>>> Well, VSI is in Burlington.
>>>
>>> Given the size of VSI and the fact that it is 2021 then there is a
>>> pretty big probability that they use external hosting.
>>
>> How many external hosting sites offer a DS20? That's what it was running on
>> last I heard.
>
> Probably none.
>
> But a lot of hosting facilities offer rack space where a
> DS20 will fit.
>
> Arne
>

Yes, and according to John, it is something like that.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 12/20/21 8:12 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/20/2021 12:32 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
>> On 12/19/2021 6:48 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 12/19/2021 5:32 PM, VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>>>> In article <a6553b0e-2769-49cd-9bf6-5e361524a8dcn@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> "alanfe...@gmail.com" <alanfeldman48@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 5:43:26 AM UTC-5, Volker Halle wrote:
>>>>>> EISNER is co-located in a data center of VSI since a couple of years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Volker.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you know what city? Whose data center? Just curious.
>>>>
>>>> Well, VSI is in Burlington.
>>>
>>> Given the size of VSI and the fact that it is 2021 then there is a
>>> pretty big probability that they use external hosting.
>>
>> How many external hosting sites offer a DS20?  That's what it was
>> running on last I heard.
>
> Probably none.
>
> But a lot of hosting facilities offer rack space where a
> DS20 will fit.
>

If you are providing the hardware and the software what exactly is the
advantage of putting your data in someone else's hands?

bill

Bill Gunshannon wrote:

> If you are providing the hardware and the software what exactly is the
> advantage of putting your data in someone else's hands?

They provide the

building
mains power
generator backup
ups backup
fire suppression
backbone network
cooling
security
access control
....

On 12/20/2021 12:16 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 12/20/21 8:12 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/20/2021 12:32 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>> On 12/19/2021 6:48 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 12/19/2021 5:32 PM, VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>>>>> In article <a6553b0e-2769-49cd-9bf6-5e361524a8dcn@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> "alanfe...@gmail.com" <alanfeldman48@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 5:43:26 AM UTC-5, Volker Halle wrote:
>>>>>>> EISNER is co-located in a data center of VSI since a couple of
>>>>>>> years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Volker.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you know what city? Whose data center? Just curious.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, VSI is in Burlington.
>>>>
>>>> Given the size of VSI and the fact that it is 2021 then there is a
>>>> pretty big probability that they use external hosting.
>>>
>>> How many external hosting sites offer a DS20?  That's what it was
>>> running on last I heard.
>>
>> Probably none.
>>
>> But a lot of hosting facilities offer rack space where a
>> DS20 will fit.
>
> If you are providing the hardware and the software what exactly is the
> advantage

You get a specialist to handle all the computer room / data center
work: power incl. UPS, cooling, network connectivity, fire protection,
access control etc..

A small company could do all that themselves, but either it would not
be done right or it would be way more expensive than paying someone
that does it for thousands of customers.

> of putting your data in someone else's hands?

The risk that the hosting provide would steal data is
probably not one of the bigger concerns.

Arne

On 12/20/21 12:30 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>
>> If you are providing the hardware and the software what exactly is the
>> advantage of putting your data in someone else's hands?
>
> They provide the
>
> building
> mains power
> generator backup
> ups backup
> fire suppression
> backbone network
> cooling
> security
> access control
> ...

Still confused.
If you are a functioning business I would expect you already have
most if not all of that. And some of it at the bottom of the list
better than you are likely to have at a site not under your own
control.

Well, I'll admit that "generator backup" might not make the list
of things you have covered.

bill

On 12/20/21 12:45 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/20/2021 12:16 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> On 12/20/21 8:12 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 12/20/2021 12:32 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>> On 12/19/2021 6:48 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>> On 12/19/2021 5:32 PM, VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>>>>>> In article <a6553b0e-2769-49cd-9bf6-5e361524a8dcn@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>> "alanfe...@gmail.com" <alanfeldman48@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 5:43:26 AM UTC-5, Volker Halle
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> EISNER is co-located in a data center of VSI since a couple of
>>>>>>>> years.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Volker.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you know what city? Whose data center? Just curious.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, VSI is in Burlington.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given the size of VSI and the fact that it is 2021 then there is a
>>>>> pretty big probability that they use external hosting.
>>>>
>>>> How many external hosting sites offer a DS20?  That's what it was
>>>> running on last I heard.
>>>
>>> Probably none.
>>>
>>> But a lot of hosting facilities offer rack space where a
>>> DS20 will fit.
>>
>> If you are providing the hardware and the software what exactly is the
>> advantage
>
> You get a specialist to handle all the computer room / data center
> work: power incl. UPS, cooling, network connectivity, fire protection,
> access control etc..
>
> A small company could do all that themselves, but either it would not
> be done right or it would be way more expensive than paying someone
> that does it for thousands of customers.
>
>>            of putting your data in someone else's hands?
>
> The risk that the hosting provide would steal data is
> probably not one of the bigger concerns.
>

It's not just the hosting company's employees you need to fear.
I don't understand all the trust people seem willing to place
in the hands of people you really don't know and have no control
over. Maybe I'm just getting cynical in my old age but I don't
really see a reason to trust strangers whose only real interest
is how much the can get out of my wallet.

bill

On 12/20/21 10:56 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> If you are a functioning business I would expect you already have most
> if not all of that. And some of it at the bottom of the list better
> than you are likely to have at a site not under your own control.

How many functioning businesses have in house lawyers, plumbers,
seamstresses, chefs, delivery staff, etc?

It's all about economics of pay an employee to do something vs pay a
contractor (be it directly or via 3rd party) to do it.

Most smaller businesses these days are outsourcing IT infrastructure for
cost reasons. Born on the web tends to be a descriptive phrase for it.

> Well, I'll admit that "generator backup" might not make the list of
> things you have covered.

Point and case. ;-)

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

On 12/20/2021 12:56 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 12/20/21 12:30 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>> If you are providing the hardware and the software what exactly is the
>>> advantage of putting your data in someone else's hands?
>>
>> They provide the
>>
>> building
>> mains power
>> generator backup
>> ups backup
>> fire suppression
>> backbone network
>> cooling
>> security
>> access control
>> ...
>
> Still confused.
> If you are a functioning business I would expect you already have
> most if not all of that.

> Well, I'll admit that "generator backup" might not make the list
> of things you have covered.

I don't think normal businesses have Inergen fire suppression,
two separate electricity feeds or two separate internet
connections either.

>   And some of it at the bottom of the list
> better than you are likely to have at a site not under your own
> control.

On the contrary.

In an office people have a legitimate need to get into the building
all the time so access control need to be practical. At a
hosting facility visitors are way rare and they can check the
technicians very carefully.

In an office people tend to like windows. Computers do not care
so a hosting facility do not need windows.

Arne

On 12/20/2021 1:00 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 12/20/21 12:45 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/20/2021 12:16 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>> On 12/20/21 8:12 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 12/20/2021 12:32 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>> On 12/19/2021 6:48 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>>> Given the size of VSI and the fact that it is 2021 then there is a
>>>>>> pretty big probability that they use external hosting.
>>>>>
>>>>> How many external hosting sites offer a DS20?  That's what it was
>>>>> running on last I heard.
>>>>
>>>> Probably none.
>>>>
>>>> But a lot of hosting facilities offer rack space where a
>>>> DS20 will fit.
>>>
>>> If you are providing the hardware and the software what exactly is the
>>> advantage
>>
>> You get a specialist to handle all the computer room / data center
>> work: power incl. UPS, cooling, network connectivity, fire protection,
>> access control etc..
>>
>> A small company could do all that themselves, but either it would not
>> be done right or it would be way more expensive than paying someone
>> that does it for thousands of customers.
>>
>>>            of putting your data in someone else's hands?
>>
>> The risk that the hosting provide would steal data is
>> probably not one of the bigger concerns.
>>
>
> It's not just the hosting company's employees you need to fear.
> I don't understand all the trust people seem willing to place
> in the hands of people you really don't know and have no control
> over.  Maybe I'm just getting cynical in my old age but I don't
> really see a reason to trust strangers whose only real interest
> is how much the can get out of my wallet.

Capitalism is build on the idea that vendors provide what
customers want because they make money by doing that.

Arne

On 2021-12-19, Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>
> $EMPLOYER runs warehoused sized data centers with temperatures in the '80s.
>

Interesting. Add another 10 to 20 degrees and you can boil water
for free. :-)

Simon.

PS: I'm in Europe... :-)

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.