On 2021-12-27, alanfe...@gmail.com <alanfeldman48@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Also, the rest of the world didn't put men on the moon. The rest of the world doesn't have the primary currency of the world. The rest of the world doesn't define and set the base units of the metric or SI system, AFAIK. Yes, there's that kg mass in Paris, but that's finally been replaced with a better standard. Maybe other countries are involved. I don't know for sure. The rest of the world doesn't have several elements named after American entities: Americium, Berkelium, Californium, Tennessine, Lawrencium (a lab in California). Can any other country beat that? The U.S. used to be the leader in particle physics. Well, not so much anymore. Bummer.
>

I wasn't going to respond to this, but sod it, it's time you, and other
Americans who feel like you, learn some home truths about your country
because if enough of you start thinking about these things, you might
end up doing something about it before it's too late for you.

I _really_ wish what I am about to say below wasn't true, because the
world would be far better off if the US were still a viable superpower.

However, the US is no longer a superpower in any meaningful sense,
and you have only yourselves to blame.

This is because you have willingly outsourced your manufacturing base
to China and therefore cannot call upon it in times of conflict with
China (or with their allies).

This means you are no longer masters of your own destiny (which is what
being a superpower is all about) and you now depend on the goodwill of
your opponents to keep you supplied with the goods and products you have
become used to and which you need for your country to survive.

At some point in the future, China will become powerful enough to threaten
to cut off the supply of some products to you unless you do what they say
and at that point it will be a viable threat because China will by then be
powerful enough to survive that move, especially given your current lack
of backbone as a country (see below).

You also no longer make careers in science and technology a desirable goal
for your citizens. China understands that building a base of citizens in
this area will lead to long-term success for them. Your country has lost
sight of this and you are losing your lead to China as a result, especially
when combined with your current lack of manufacturing base.

As a country, you no longer have a real backbone when facing an equal
opponent so you have also lost the willingness to fight a real war
because of all the casualties that would occur. All China has to do
is to sink a couple of aircraft carriers with no survivors and that
loss of life means that today's America would be calling for peace
(on China's terms).

IOW, you are building a nation of Neville Chamberlain clones, not
a nation of Winston Churchill clones. That will be your undoing.
For all the faults of the era (and there were many) at least the
US citizens of the 1950s and the following decades understood what was
needed to stand up to the Soviet Union. You as a country no longer
understand that and no longer have the backbone for that when it comes
to China.

You are building massive debt and writing IOUs that you cannot honour.
When your financial circumstances change, that debt will also be your
undoing.

You are today where Britain once was - a once great industrial power that
became a vassal state of the US. You in turn are well on the way to becoming
a vassal state of China because you will have lost the ability to go it
alone when it comes to science, technology, and manufacturing.

At the rate you are going, you will at some point in the future have your
own version of the Suez Canal crisis (with the same outcome) and everyone
will know that the US is no longer a superpower. At that point, things
will cascade very quickly and badly for you.

When I look at the US as it exists today, I see the start of the Fall of
the Roman Empire and I _really_ wish that was not true. :-(

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 11:28:46 AM UTC-5, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2021-12-27, alanfe...@gmail.com <alanfe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Also, the rest of the world didn't put men on the moon. The rest of the world doesn't have the primary currency of the world. The rest of the world doesn't define and set the base units of the metric or SI system, AFAIK. Yes, there's that kg mass in Paris, but that's finally been replaced with a better standard. Maybe other countries are involved. I don't know for sure.. The rest of the world doesn't have several elements named after American entities: Americium, Berkelium, Californium, Tennessine, Lawrencium (a lab in California). Can any other country beat that? The U.S. used to be the leader in particle physics. Well, not so much anymore. Bummer.
> >

Hmphh. I didn't see this until today.

> I wasn't going to respond to this, but sod it, it's time you, and other
> Americans who feel like you, learn some home truths about your country
> because if enough of you start thinking about these things, you might
> end up doing something about it before it's too late for you.

Uh, I was responding to people bashing America for using F. I was simply replying that the same nation that uses F put men on the moon and manufactured more not-found-in-nature elements than anyone else. Russia appears to be a close second.

Regardless, you're taking it to a whole new level with lots of new extra stuff, having little or nothing to do with my point. We use F, it doesn't hurt us, and if you don't like it, well, (Ow! My tongue!)

>
> I _really_ wish what I am about to say below wasn't true, because the
> world would be far better off if the US were still a viable superpower.
>
> However, the US is no longer a superpower in any meaningful sense,
> and you have only yourselves to blame.

Well, don't fire a nuke at us. You'll find out different. We have more than anyone. We might even have more than all the rest of them combined.

>
> This is because you have willingly outsourced your manufacturing base
> to China and therefore cannot call upon it in times of conflict with
> China (or with their allies).

China once tried to do that with their near-monopoly on rare earth elements.. It didn't work. And they would lose a lot of American business, which they depend on. I think we'll be all right. It's not a one-way street, you know.

>
> This means you are no longer masters of your own destiny (which is what
> being a superpower is all about) and you now depend on the goodwill of
> your opponents to keep you supplied with the goods and products you have
> become used to and which you need for your country to survive.

They depend on our good will, too. They need our business. And they're starting to have problems with their own economy on top of that. I think we'll be all right.

>
> At some point in the future, China will become powerful enough to threaten
> to cut off the supply of some products to you unless you do what they say
> and at that point it will be a viable threat because China will by then be
> powerful enough to survive that move, especially given your current lack
> of backbone as a country (see below).

See above.

> You also no longer make careers in science and technology a desirable goal
> for your citizens. China understands that building a base of citizens in
> this area will lead to long-term success for them. Your country has lost
> sight of this and you are losing your lead to China as a result, especially
> when combined with your current lack of manufacturing base.

Perhaps true, but we still have the best universities, and foreigners flock here for that.
> As a country, you no longer have a real backbone when facing an equal
> opponent so you have also lost the willingness to fight a real war
> because of all the casualties that would occur. All China has to do
> is to sink a couple of aircraft carriers with no survivors and that
> loss of life means that today's America would be calling for peace
> (on China's terms).

I doubt it. And they're not going to do that.

We don't want to kill millions of innocent people. I guess you do. Yes, you can go into the past about that, but we are not in the past. We are in the present. We could have dropped a nuke on Afghanistan. No more Taliban. Of course, no more Afghans, either. Is that what you're recommending?

BTW, we got bin Laden. We got Saddam Hussein.

>
> IOW, you are building a nation of Neville Chamberlain clones, not
> a nation of Winston Churchill clones. That will be your undoing.
> For all the faults of the era (and there were many) at least the
> US citizens of the 1950s and the following decades understood what was
> needed to stand up to the Soviet Union. You as a country no longer
> understand that and no longer have the backbone for that when it comes
> to China.

The Trumpists might be our undoing. But they are not Chamberlains. But they do use Fahrenheit. I guess that what makes them a problem, right?

> You are building massive debt and writing IOUs that you cannot honour.
> When your financial circumstances change, that debt will also be your
> undoing.

We can honor them. As long as Congress doesn't pull the plug with the stupid debt-ceiling limit. And if that happens, the entire world will suffer, or so I hear. The debt is not as big a problem as you are making out to be. I guarantee we can honor them. People have been saying otherwise for decades..

>
> You are today where Britain once was - a once great industrial power that
> became a vassal state of the US. You in turn are well on the way to becoming
> a vassal state of China because you will have lost the ability to go it
> alone when it comes to science, technology, and manufacturing.

Well, even if that's true, it won't be because we use Fahrenheit. And so has everyone else. It's a new world.

Britain was an empire around the world. The U.S. never was. Apples and oranges.

>
> At the rate you are going, you will at some point in the future have your
> own version of the Suez Canal crisis (with the same outcome) and everyone
> will know that the US is no longer a superpower. At that point, things
> will cascade very quickly and badly for you.

Our currency is the de facto of the world. Don't fire a nuke at us. You will regret it big time.
>
> When I look at the US as it exists today, I see the start of the Fall of
> the Roman Empire and I _really_ wish that was not true. :-(

If that happens it will be due to the Trumpists, not our use of Fahrenheit.
> Simon.
>
> --
> Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
> Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Alan

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 11:28:46 AM UTC-5, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2021-12-27, alanfe...@gmail.com <alanfe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
[...]
>
> You also no longer make careers in science and technology a desirable goal
> for your citizens. China understands that building a base of citizens in
> this area will lead to long-term success for them. Your country has lost
> sight of this and you are losing your lead to China as a result, especially
> when combined with your current lack of manufacturing base.

Well, I can tell you that there is no shortage of physicists.

And China has to steal and extort IP. Are you recommending the US do the same? Hell, maybe we do, too. But I've never heard of it.

[...]
> When I look at the US as it exists today, I see the start of the Fall of
> the Roman Empire and I _really_ wish that was not true. :-(

If so, it will be due to the Trumpists, not our use of Fahrenheit.

>
> Simon.
>
> --
> Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
> Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Alan

On 2021-12-30, alanfe...@gmail.com <alanfeldman48@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 11:28:46 AM UTC-5, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>
>> I _really_ wish what I am about to say below wasn't true, because the
>> world would be far better off if the US were still a viable superpower.
>>
>> However, the US is no longer a superpower in any meaningful sense,
>> and you have only yourselves to blame.
>
> Well, don't fire a nuke at us. You'll find out different. We have more than anyone. We might even have more than all the rest of them combined.
>

Do you by any chance regard Team America: World Police as a documentary ? :-)

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 5:17:11 AM UTC-5, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2021-12-30, alanfe...@gmail.com <alanfe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 11:28:46 AM UTC-5, Simon Clubley wrote:
> >>
> >> I _really_ wish what I am about to say below wasn't true, because the
> >> world would be far better off if the US were still a viable superpower.
> >>
> >> However, the US is no longer a superpower in any meaningful sense,
> >> and you have only yourselves to blame.
> >
> > Well, don't fire a nuke at us. You'll find out different. We have more than anyone. We might even have more than all the rest of them combined.
> >
> Do you by any chance regard Team America: World Police as a documentary ? :-)

Never heard of it. Took a quick peek at Wikipedia's article about it. Have no interest in seeing it, nor do I have any interest in seeing almost any other movie, for that matter.

Oh, we also got the leader of ISIS. I forget his name.

Let me guess: UFP = United Federation of Planets?

> Simon.
>
> --
> Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
> Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.