In article <MPG.3b577bf42923d843989686@news.eternal-september.org>,
norman@md.huji.ac.il says...
>
> In article <schoc9$15v$1@dont-email.me>, nospam@needed.invalid says...
> >
> > Norman B. Grover wrote:
> >
> > > The Super IO configuration section at home displays the same label as at
> > > work: "System Super IO Chip Parameters", and here too the space under the
> > > label is blank. In the Peripherals tab there is also an item called
> > > Legacy USB Support, and it is enabled; there is no mention of PS/2
> > > anywhere.
> > > Where do I go from here?
> >
> > If you disable Legacy USB Support, maybe that will
> > make a difference.
>
> Fortunately, I go in for (minor) surgery tomorrow morning, so I'll be
> home all afternoon and able to fiddle with the bios. First thing (maybe
> also the last), I'll disable the Legacy USB Support.
>
> I should mention that I use an old (there are no others) Avant Stellar
> PS/2 keyboard from Creative Vision Technologies, but it is connected to
> the box via a USB adapter; there is, however, a PS/2 port on the box,
> currently unused.
>
>
> >
> > https://www.dell.com/community/Desktops-General-Read-Only/What-is-Legacy-USB-Support/td-p/1771579
> >
> > "The Legacy USB Support option only provides support of
> > the USB ports during boot up and for other activities
> > when the operating system isn't fully loaded."
> >
> > "Legacy USB Support
> >
> > Enable this option if you're using a USB keyboard or USB mouse
> > and you want to use them in the BIOS setup screen, DOS, or some
> > other environment outside of Windows."
> >
> > The "push back PS2 buffer concept", said that when a key press
> > came in on USB, the BIOS would place the key press info in the
> > PS2 hardware buffer. Then, an OS such as bare-metal MSDOS would
> > (using its PS2-only driver), read the character.
> >
> > I would look up some better wording for this on the old Rojakpot,
> > but archives of it don't work properly.
> >
> > The intention was, to make a mechanism where MSDOS could run, without
> > a USB HID driver. MSDOS relied on the BIOS for IO, rather than there
> > being a handoff at boot time and MSDOS doing everything for itself.
> > Some things just weren't handled, period, which is why optical
> > drives in MSDOS, there were several third party solutions for that.
> > Since MSDOS understood PS2, they found a way to make USB keyboard
> > input, appear in the PS2 hardware buffer (BIOS "magic").
> >
> > The only danger of disabling USB legacy support, would be an inability
> > to enter the BIOS a second time and turn it back on. If the machine has
> > a PS2 connector, you could always connect a PS2 keyboard and do some testing
> > that way. PS/2 is not hot plug compatible, and as best you can,
> > PS/2 peripherals should only be plugged in with all power removed.
>
> On second thought, I think I'll try this first---not being able to enter
> the bios and re-enable Legacy USB Support, sounds scary.

Couldn't resist. Just tried it. Moved keyboard to PS/2 port, disabled
Legacy USB Support, no difference.
Re-enabled Legacy USB Support, left keyboard connected to PS/2 port.

--

Norman B. Grover
Jerusalem, Israel

In article <17tkhi5379453$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...
>
> "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
> > Norman B. Grover <norman@md.huji.ac.il> wrote:
> >
> >> I actually do have a PS/2 keyboard, but it is currently connected via
> >> a USB adapter. Tomorrow I'll connect it directly and see what
> >> happens.
> >
> > Apologies for thread swerve, but I'm curious: if you have a system with
> > a PS/2 socket, why are you using the adapter anyway?
> >
> > (I've always thought that, on a system that has a PS/2 socket [or two],
> > I'd normally use a PS/2 keyboard, as that socket can't be used for
> > anything else, whereas using a USB keyboard [let alone a PS/2 one via an
> > adapter!] uses up a USB socket.)
>
> Yeah, that's the other thing: wasting a USB port when both the keyboard
> and backpanel have PS/2 connectors. I've seen problems with getting
> into the BIOS config screens with a USB keyboard, or trying to use a USB
> keyboard before the OS loads versus a PS/2 keyboard that has always
> worked for me.

I'm sure there was (what I thought to be) a very good reason at the time,
but I haven't a clue what that was. Having just been outvoted, I am now
connected via PS/2.

--

Norman B. Grover
Jerusalem, Israel

In article <ypdh8deoxwyj.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...
>
> "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 at 15:44:02, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote (my
> > responses usually follow points raised):
> >
> > The only suggestion I've seen that makes sense is Java Jive's suggestion
> > that he has a non-entering key that's sticking - such as ctrl, Alt,
> > Shift, or Caps Lock. Whether those would do it, I don't know - would be
> > easy (though tedious) to check.
>
> Maybe it's time to turn over the keyboard and bang it many times at
> different angles to shake out the crumbs.

The problem persists (booting from the DVD) even when the keyboard is
disconnected so I am not clear at what stage you are suggesting it be
cleaned, before the disconnect or afterwards.

--

Norman B. Grover
Jerusalem, Israel

On 13/07/2021 14:59, Norman B. Grover wrote:
> In article <ypdh8deoxwyj.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...
>>
>> "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 at 15:44:02, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote (my
>>> responses usually follow points raised):
>>>
>>> The only suggestion I've seen that makes sense is Java Jive's suggestion
>>> that he has a non-entering key that's sticking - such as ctrl, Alt,
>>> Shift, or Caps Lock. Whether those would do it, I don't know - would be
>>> easy (though tedious) to check.
>>
>> Maybe it's time to turn over the keyboard and bang it many times at
>> different angles to shake out the crumbs.
>
> The problem persists (booting from the DVD) even when the keyboard is
> disconnected so I am not clear at what stage you are suggesting it be
> cleaned, before the disconnect or afterwards.

Due to a cock-up (technical term) by Chunderbird, I've lost all but the
last few posts of this thread, so cannot see your OP, but my suggestion
was based on the supposition that this was a laptop being discussed, and
that it was the built-in laptop keyboard that possibly had a sticking key.

If so, many laptop makes, such as Dell for example, have some diagnostic
tests available on boot by pressing a particular key similarly to going
into the PC BIOS, with Dell ISTR it's <F12>. You could use the keyboard
section of the diagnostics to test for a sticking key.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

"Norman B. Grover" <norman@md.huji.ac.il> wrote:

> I'm sure there was (what I thought to be) a very good reason at the time,
> but I haven't a clue what that was. Having just been outvoted, I am now
> connected via PS/2.

Please followup on the "Press a key to boot from DVD" prompt thinking
you hit a key when you were sitting on your hands after switching to a
PS/2 keyboard. We're curious.

Don't even hover your hands over the laptop's keyboard unless you
already disabled the touchpad. I've seen users set sensitivity pretty
high, and a hand hovering just above cause the touchpad to think you
meant to issue an movement. Oops, you're using a desktop mobo, not a
laptop; however, I've seen touchpads that can be separately connected to
a computer.

Just reread your starting article where you said you disconnected all
USB devices, including the keyboard. I would have thought the USB
suggestions would've said to disconnect all USB devices *except* the USB
keyboard. Well, with even the USB keyboard disconnected when you did a
cold boot, that would be one magical SOB keyboard to issue flaky
keypresses that would make the BIOS think you hit a key at the boot
prompt. I have spare keyboards in storage. I sure would get frustrated
if those disconnected keyboards could, in any way, affect my computer.

Do you have more than one keyboard to the computer?

What peripherals are connected to the computer when you cold boot?

In article <1mwns31g2zml9$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...
>
> "Norman B. Grover" <norman@md.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>
> > I'm sure there was (what I thought to be) a very good reason at the time,
> > but I haven't a clue what that was. Having just been outvoted, I am now
> > connected via PS/2.
>
> Please followup on the "Press a key to boot from DVD" prompt thinking
> you hit a key when you were sitting on your hands after switching to a
> PS/2 keyboard. We're curious.
>
> Don't even hover your hands over the laptop's keyboard unless you
> already disabled the touchpad. I've seen users set sensitivity pretty
> high, and a hand hovering just above cause the touchpad to think you
> meant to issue an movement. Oops, you're using a desktop mobo, not a
> laptop; however, I've seen touchpads that can be separately connected to
> a computer.
>
> Just reread your starting article where you said you disconnected all
> USB devices, including the keyboard. I would have thought the USB
> suggestions would've said to disconnect all USB devices *except* the USB
> keyboard. Well, with even the USB keyboard disconnected when you did a
> cold boot, that would be one magical SOB keyboard to issue flaky
> keypresses that would make the BIOS think you hit a key at the boot
> prompt. I have spare keyboards in storage. I sure would get frustrated
> if those disconnected keyboards could, in any way, affect my computer.
>
> Do you have more than one keyboard to the computer?

No

>
> What peripherals are connected to the computer when you cold boot?

One keyboard (now PS/2), one wireless mouse (via USB), one printer (USB),
one external disk (USB), 2 monitors with USB ports for peripherals---all
6 disconnected in the original test

--

Norman B. Grover
Jerusalem, Israel

In article <sckaic$cq1$1@gioia.aioe.org>, java@evij.com.invalid says...
>
> Due to a cock-up (technical term) by Chunderbird, I've lost all but the
> last few posts of this thread, so cannot see your OP, but my suggestion
> was based on the supposition that this was a laptop being discussed, and
> that it was the built-in laptop keyboard that possibly had a sticking key.
>
> If so, many laptop makes, such as Dell for example, have some diagnostic
> tests available on boot by pressing a particular key similarly to going
> into the PC BIOS, with Dell ISTR it's <F12>. You could use the keyboard
> section of the diagnostics to test for a sticking key.

It is far from a laptop: I have a tower and two large screens, and a big
old Avant Stellar CVT keyboard (formerly connected via USB, now via
PS/2). And since the problem persists (booting from the DVD) even when
the keyboard is disconnected, I think the notion of a sticking key can be
laid to rest.

--

Norman B. Grover
Jerusalem, Israel

On 14/07/2021 13:32, Norman B. Grover wrote:
>
> In article <sckaic$cq1$1@gioia.aioe.org>, java@evij.com.invalid says...
>>
>> Due to a cock-up (technical term) by Chunderbird, I've lost all but the
>> last few posts of this thread, so cannot see your OP, but my suggestion
>> was based on the supposition that this was a laptop being discussed, and
>> that it was the built-in laptop keyboard that possibly had a sticking key.
>
> It is far from a laptop: I have a tower and two large screens, and a big
> old Avant Stellar CVT keyboard (formerly connected via USB, now via
> PS/2). And since the problem persists (booting from the DVD) even when
> the keyboard is disconnected, I think the notion of a sticking key can be
> laid to rest.

Fine, and I'm sorry for the time-wasting diversion, but one useful thing
may come out of it though ...

Does your m'board have any diagnostic tests available on boot or that
came on a CD with it? If so, have you tried running them and what do
they show, if anything?

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

In article <scmn7b$2ei$1@gioia.aioe.org>, java@evij.com.invalid says...
>
> On 14/07/2021 13:32, Norman B. Grover wrote:
> >
> > In article <sckaic$cq1$1@gioia.aioe.org>, java@evij.com.invalid says...
> >>
> >> Due to a cock-up (technical term) by Chunderbird, I've lost all but the
> >> last few posts of this thread, so cannot see your OP, but my suggestion
> >> was based on the supposition that this was a laptop being discussed, and
> >> that it was the built-in laptop keyboard that possibly had a sticking key.
> >
> > It is far from a laptop: I have a tower and two large screens, and a big
> > old Avant Stellar CVT keyboard (formerly connected via USB, now via
> > PS/2). And since the problem persists (booting from the DVD) even when
> > the keyboard is disconnected, I think the notion of a sticking key can be
> > laid to rest.
>
> Fine, and I'm sorry for the time-wasting diversion, but one useful thing
> may come out of it though ...
>
> Does your m'board have any diagnostic tests available on boot or that
> came on a CD with it? If so, have you tried running them and what do
> they show, if anything?

I don't think so, but VanguardLH was kind enough to send me a link to the
m'board user manual and I'll have a look. If I find any tests I'll report
back here.

--

Norman B. Grover
Jerusalem, Israel