On 11/16/2022 5:41 PM, Alan wrote:

<snip>

> ...which is completely ignorant.

Not at all ignorant, especially when it comes to open-source software as
well as software written for x86. Also, remember that an Intel/Mac user
can dual boot Windows, or run Parallels, and take advantage of a lot of
applications for which there has never been an OS-X version of any kind.

A lot of college students can't use M1 based Macbooks because the
applications needed in their major are simply not available in OS-X for
the M1. My son was in college just prior to the M1 Macbooks and he had
to install Windows on his Macbook (which the university provided to
students at no cost to students under a license agreement with
Microsoft). Fortunately, there are now a lot of non-clunky Windows
laptops available, which did not used to be the case.

On 11/16/2022 6:08 PM, Bob Campbell wrote:

<snip>

> But I really don’t think Apple cares about that. It would take $150
> iPhones to take over markets like China and India. Apple is not
> interested in competing at the low end. In fact, in Apple’s 45 year
> history, they never have competed at the low end.

They are already manufacturing iPhones in India and their "low end" is
older models still in production.

China has a huge middle class and upper class that can easily afford an
iPhone, The iPhone in China is seen as a status symbol, like an Hermes
scarf or a Louis Vuitton handbag.

The early problems for the iPhone in China were a) the lack of dual-SIM
models (which Apple addressed several years ago, for China only), and
the lack of large screen "phablet" models, which has also been addressed.

The other issue for the iPhone in China is the availability of
applications. There are probably a hundred sources of Android
applications (but NOT the Google Play Store) with Chinese language apps
not available for iOS. Some are sketchy apps so you have to be careful.

One driver of iPhone sales in the U.S. is iMessage, but in China
everyone uses WeChat and in India everyone uses WhatsApp, so the
iMessage capability is of no concern.

On 11/16/2022 8:10 PM, Bob Campbell wrote:
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <rAOdnRZzF9EmCuj-nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@supernews.com>, Bob
>> Campbell <nunya@none.none> wrote:
>>
>>> It would take $150
>>> iPhones to take over markets like China and India.
>>
>> apparently not:
>>
>> <https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/08/24/apples-iphone-dominant-in-ch
>> ina-samsung-falls-out-of-second-place>
>> The iPhone is consistently the most popular smartphone in China,
>> with half of all smartphones sold during the 6.18 Festival being
>> Apple's.
>
> Wow, that’s amazing.
>
> I guess my knowledge of China is outdated. So the global iPhone numbers
> will continue to rise.

It would be even more amazing if it were true! But of course it's not.

You can see the actual statistics here:
<https://www.counterpointresearch.com/china-smartphone-share/>

For the last reported quarter (Q2 2022) Apple was at 13%. In Q4 2021
they reached a high of 22%. They'll probably do well in Q4 2022 as well.

In article <tl5nel$2m7u5$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> <snip>
>
> > ...which is completely ignorant.
>
> Not at all ignorant, especially when it comes to open-source software as
> well as software written for x86.

open source software by definition can be built for non-x86, although
that may require some effort for uncommon platforms.

> Also, remember that an Intel/Mac user
> can dual boot Windows, or run Parallels, and take advantage of a lot of
> applications for which there has never been an OS-X version of any kind.

rubbish. very few majors have windows-only software. nearly everything
exists for both platforms, some of which is *only* mac.

further, dual-booting is not necessary. windows can run in a virtual
machine on both intel and apple silicon, although the latter is
officially unsupported until microsoft changes its licensing terms.

> A lot of college students can't use M1 based Macbooks because the
> applications needed in their major are simply not available in OS-X for
> the M1.

more rubbish.

In article <tl5og0$2m7u5$3@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> >>> It would take $150
> >>> iPhones to take over markets like China and India.
> >>
> >> apparently not:
> >>
> >> <https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/08/24/apples-iphone-dominant-in-ch
> >> ina-samsung-falls-out-of-second-place>
> >> The iPhone is consistently the most popular smartphone in China,
> >> with half of all smartphones sold during the 6.18 Festival being
> >> Apple's.
> >
> > Wow, that¹s amazing.
> >
> > I guess my knowledge of China is outdated. So the global iPhone numbers
> > will continue to rise.
>
> It would be even more amazing if it were true! But of course it's not.

it is true.

here's more:
<https://www.counterpointresearch.com/premium-smartphone-shipments-grow-
29-yoy-in-q3-2022-in-key-sea-markets/>
€ Apple¹s iPhone shipments grew 63% YoY in Q3 2022.
....
There were some brand-level hits and misses too in Q3 2022. While
Samsung shipments fell 13% YoY, Apple¹s shipments were up 63% YoY
across all the key countries. Vietnam seemed to be grabbing iPhones
at a faster rate than its neighbours.

iphone growing by 63% while samsung dropped and the market itself
contracted is quite a feat.

> You can see the actual statistics here:
> <https://www.counterpointresearch.com/china-smartphone-share/>

how to lie with numbers. that doesn't say what you think it does.

nospam wrote:

> iphone growing by 63% while samsung dropped and the market itself
> contracted is quite a feat.

If people cared about functionality, Apple would go out of business.
The iPhone is not designed so much as it's marketed to stupid people.

On Nov 17, 2022, sms wrote (in article
<news:tl5o78$2m7u5$2@dont-email.me>):

> There are probably a hundred sources of Android
> applications (but NOT the Google Play Store)

Why can't chinese people use the google play store in china?
And aren't all the google play store apps on the internet anyway?

On 11/17/2022 9:46 AM, Bill W wrote:
> On Nov 17, 2022, sms wrote (in article
> <news:tl5o78$2m7u5$2@dont-email.me>):
>
>> There are probably a hundred sources of Android
>> applications (but NOT the Google Play Store)
>
> Why can't chinese people use the google play store in china?
> And aren't all the google play store apps on the internet anyway?

The Play Store, as well as Gmail, are blocked in China. It's possible to
get around "The Great Firewall" (GFW) by the use of a VPN. See
<https://www.vpndada.com/access-google-play-store-china/>.

The last two times I was in China I used a Hong Kong China Unicom
data-only SIM card which bypassed the GFW, but that was back in 2018 and
2019, by now this may no longer work. I also had a VPN that seemed to
work when using the hotel's Wi-Fi, but some hotels let foreign guests
access sites that are normally blocked.

In article <tl5rsq$t1a$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> If people cared about functionality, Apple would go out of business.

you didn't hear the news?

> The iPhone is not designed so much as it's marketed to stupid people.

you said you bought several...

On 2022-11-17 08:28, sms wrote:
> On 11/16/2022 5:41 PM, Alan wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> ...which is completely ignorant.
>
> Not at all ignorant...

Sorry, but that's just contradiction.

What?

I snipped out the substance of what you said?

Gee. Doing that would pretty much be a dick move, wouldn't it?

Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>> iphone growing by 63% while samsung dropped and the market itself
>> contracted is quite a feat.
>
> If people cared about functionality, Apple would go out of business.
> The iPhone is not designed so much as it's marketed to stupid people.

Repeating your opinion does not make it true. 🙄

On 2022-11-17 11:24, Bob Campbell wrote:
> Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>> nospam wrote:
>>
>>> iphone growing by 63% while samsung dropped and the market itself
>>> contracted is quite a feat.
>>
>> If people cared about functionality, Apple would go out of business.
>> The iPhone is not designed so much as it's marketed to stupid people.
>
> Repeating your opinion does not make it true. 🙄

I'm guessing all these folks must be "stupid":

<https://www.google.com/search?q=jet+propulsion+lab+apple+computers&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjTt6Oe-rX7AhV0BDQIHVU5DS8Q_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=1558&bih=945&dpr=2>

On Nov 17, 2022, sms wrote (in article
<news:tl5sr1$2mlcr$1@dont-email.me>):

>>> There are probably a hundred sources of Android
>>> applications (but NOT the Google Play Store)
>>
>> Why can't chinese people use the google play store in china?
>> And aren't all the google play store apps on the internet anyway?
>
> The Play Store, as well as Gmail, are blocked in China. It's possible to
> get around "The Great Firewall" (GFW) by the use of a VPN. See
> <https://www.vpndada.com/access-google-play-store-china/>.
>
> The last two times I was in China I used a Hong Kong China Unicom
> data-only SIM card which bypassed the GFW, but that was back in 2018 and
> 2019, by now this may no longer work. I also had a VPN that seemed to
> work when using the hotel's Wi-Fi, but some hotels let foreign guests
> access sites that are normally blocked.

Thank you for that article which was mostly about using a vpn but it did
say that google refused to self censor so that's why china blocked them.

If china blocked google because google wouldn't self censoring search
output as the article said, why is apple's play store available in china?

The article doesn't say what apple agreed to do that google wouldn't do.

On 11/17/2022 5:31 PM, Bill W wrote:

<snip>

> If china blocked google because google wouldn't self censoring search
> output as the article said, why is apple's play store available in china?
>
>
> The article doesn't say what apple agreed to do that google wouldn't do.

See
<https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-censorship-data.html>.
But it can be behind a paywall depending on your browser and if you've
exceeded the free article limit.

On Nov 18, 2022, sms wrote (in article
<news:tl892f$2vaaq$2@dont-email.me>):

>> If china blocked google because google wouldn't self censoring search
>> output as the article said, why is apple's play store available in china?
>>
>> The article doesn't say what apple agreed to do that google wouldn't do.
>
> See
> <https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-censorship-data.html>.
> But it can be behind a paywall depending on your browser and if you've
> exceeded the free article limit.

I read it and it says Apple "ceded control to the Chinese government" of
its customer's data. It also says Apple "abandoned encryption" for its
customers.

While Google didn't "give in" to Chinese demands for their customer's data,
it says Apple easily gave it all up. And it says Apple is actively throwing
its customers under the bus when it says Apple "aggressively censors apps."

The article concluded Apple has no right to be "standing up for the
principles that Apple claims to be so attached to."

Why don't more people know about this betrayal of Apple's core principles?

On 11/18/2022 8:46 AM, Bill W wrote:

<snip>

> Why don't more people know about this betrayal of Apple's core principles?

I think that most people know about it but it's just not something that
they spend time worrying about, especially since so many other companies
have acceded to the same demands.

As a CNN report
<https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/02/business/nike-china-western-business-intl-hnk>
stated: "Companies that want to do business in China have long made
compromises in the pursuit of success." They also explicitly mention
Google pulling out of China for refusing to comply.

While Google is not officially available in China (nor is Facebook,
Whatsapp, or Youtube) the reality is that if anyone really wants access
to those sites they can use a VPN. So for Google it was probably not a
big deal to pull out, especially since Android phones can install apps
from many different sources, they are not limited to the Google Play store.

For Apple it's very different since the App store is the only source of
iPhone Apps (with limited exceptions); it would not be possible to sell
iPhones without the owners having access to the App store.

On Nov 18, 2022, sms wrote (in article
<news:tl8gje$301r6$1@dont-email.me>):

> I think that most people know about it but it's just not something that
> they spend time worrying about, especially since so many other companies
> have acceded to the same demands.

Maybe "so many other companies" acceded privacy to China but not Google.

How can Apple advertise privacy over Google when it's Apple and not Google
who acceded its customer's smartphone privacy to China's monetary demands?

On 11/18/2022 12:19 PM, Bill W wrote:
> On Nov 18, 2022, sms wrote (in article
> <news:tl8gje$301r6$1@dont-email.me>):
>
>> I think that most people know about it but it's just not something that
>> they spend time worrying about, especially since so many other companies
>> have acceded to the same demands.
>
> Maybe "so many other companies" acceded privacy to China but not Google.
>
> How can Apple advertise privacy over Google when it's Apple and not Google
> who acceded its customer's smartphone privacy to China's monetary demands?

I suspect that they're not advertising privacy in every country in which
they do business. No one likes what they've done in regards to China but
it is what it is.

RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
> On 16 Nov 2022 at 8:49:06 AM, <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>> And the truth is also: there are lots and lots of people much dumber
>> than bread who choose to use Apple's devices.
>
> Aren't iOS devices marketed exclusively to people who don't know much and
> who then want Apple to make all their decisions for them to protect them?

Hey Rob,

Don’t trolls normally ask “straw man argument” styled questions because
they can’t win a real debate?