sms wrote:

> On 11/18/2022 8:48 AM, AJL wrote:
>> On 11/18/2022 9:14 AM, sms wrote:
>>
>>> Not having a PIN on your phone would be as absurd as not having a
>>> PIN on a debit card.
>>
>> Absurd FOR ME would be using a debit card at all. Haven't carried one in
>> years so no security worries there. My credit card buys everything I
>> need AND gives me cashback. No fees AND better protection...
>
> True, a debit card is a very bad idea. I have an ATM card, that doesn't
> function as a debit card, for the rare times that I need some cash.
>
> But I use Apple Pay/Google Pay/Samsung Pay on my phone all the time
> because my main credit card gives 3% cash back for mobile wallet
> purchases. The best physical credit card I have pays only 2% cashback.
>
>>
>>> It's bad enough that the U.S. has not adopted Chip & PIN for credit
>>> cards.
>>
>> Not sure what that is. My credit card just has to be waved at the
>> terminal and I'm on my way. No pin or zip needed. Easy peasy...
>
> In many countries, like most of Europe, you need to enter a PIN when you
> use a credit card. If you go there with a card that doesn't support Chip
> & PIN than you can have problems making purchases from places like
> ticket kiosks at train stations and metro stations, while at restaurants
> they'll print a receipt for you to sign.
>
> There are some U.S. credit cards that do support Chip & PIN, but not a
> lot of them. But with Apple Pay/Google Pay/Samsung Pay, the need for a
> Chip & PIN credit card has pretty much been eliminated, you can pay with
> your phone at most places.

I know Steve rather well, so I know he's fed to believe everything he
believes but what I want to bring up to those who own the education and
intelligence to question what MARKETING has fed you to believe...

Ask yourself this one question please...

*Why are you using an insecure payment app in the first place?*

If the _only_ way to make the insecure payment app work securely is to
constantly lock the _entire_ phone, then that's a stupid use model...
*Is it not?*

Don't any of you think?
*Or do all of you always do whatever MARKETING tells you to do?*

Can't you think?
THINK. Think. think. ThInK. THINK!
THINK. Think. think. ThInK. THINK!
THINK. Think. think. ThInK. THINK!
THINK. Think. think. ThInK. THINK!
THINK. Think. think. ThInK. THINK!
THINK. Think. think. ThInK. THINK!
THINK. Think. think. ThInK. THINK!

Think.

If you want to use a payment system, then use a secure payment system.
But if you want to use an insecure payment system (which is what Steve is
advising), then don't say it's absurd for me to point out its flaws.

What's absurd isn't my pointing out the flaws in Steve's use model.
What's absurd is Steve's use model.

If you are an intelligent well educated adult, ask yourself this:
a. Instead of using an insecure payment app
b. Which requires the entire phone to constantly be secured...
c. Why not just use a secure payment app instead?
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to point out the absurdity of Steve's use model.

On 18/11/2022 20:25, Andy Burnelli wrote:

> sms wrote:
>
>> On 11/18/2022 8:48 AM, AJL wrote:
>>> On 11/18/2022 9:14 AM, sms wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not having a PIN on your phone would be as absurd as not having a
>>>> PIN on a debit card.
>>>
>>> Absurd FOR ME would be using a debit card at all. Haven't carried one in
>>> years so no security worries there. My credit card buys everything I
>>> need AND gives me cashback. No fees AND better protection...
>>
>> True, a debit card is a very bad idea. I have an ATM card, that doesn't
>> function as a debit card, for the rare times that I need some cash.
>>
>> But I use Apple Pay/Google Pay/Samsung Pay on my phone all the time
>> because my main credit card gives 3% cash back for mobile wallet
>> purchases. The best physical credit card I have pays only 2% cashback.
>>
>>>
>>>> It's bad enough that the U.S. has not adopted Chip & PIN for credit
>>>> cards.
>>>
>>> Not sure what that is. My credit card just has to be waved at the
>>> terminal and I'm on my way. No pin or zip needed. Easy peasy...
>>
>> In many countries, like most of Europe, you need to enter a PIN when you
>> use a credit card. If you go there with a card that doesn't support Chip
>> & PIN than you can have problems making purchases from places like
>> ticket kiosks at train stations and metro stations, while at restaurants
>> they'll print a receipt for you to sign.
>>
>> There are some U.S. credit cards that do support Chip & PIN, but not a
>> lot of them. But with Apple Pay/Google Pay/Samsung Pay, the need for a
>> Chip & PIN credit card has pretty much been eliminated, you can pay with
>> your phone at most places.
>
> I know Steve rather well, so I know he's fed to believe everything he
> believes but what I want to bring up to those who own the education and
> intelligence to question what MARKETING has fed you to believe...
>
> Ask yourself this one question please...
>
> *Why are you using an insecure payment app in the first place?*
>
> If the _only_ way to make the insecure payment app work securely is to
> constantly lock the _entire_ phone, then that's a stupid use model...
> *Is it not?*
>
> Don't any of you think?
> *Or do all of you always do whatever MARKETING tells you to do?*
>
> Can't you think?
> THINK. Think. think. ThInK. THINK!
> THINK. Think. think. ThInK. THINK!
> THINK. Think. think. ThInK. THINK!
> THINK. Think. think. ThInK. THINK!
> THINK. Think. think. ThInK. THINK!
> THINK. Think. think. ThInK. THINK!
> THINK. Think. think. ThInK. THINK!
>
> Think.
>
> If you want to use a payment system, then use a secure payment system.
> But if you want to use an insecure payment system (which is what Steve is
> advising), then don't say it's absurd for me to point out its flaws.
>
> What's absurd isn't my pointing out the flaws in Steve's use model.
> What's absurd is Steve's use model.
>
> If you are an intelligent well educated adult, ask yourself this:
> a. Instead of using an insecure payment app
> b. Which requires the entire phone to constantly be secured...
> c. Why not just use a secure payment app instead?

If the Steve guy you are talking with wants to be stupid and use stupid
insecure apps and a stupid security use model, why not let him be stupid?

What's it to you that his use model is stupid?
Leave him alone and just plonk him if he's too stupid to understand you.

On 11/18/2022 11:41 AM, cris wrote:

<snip>

> What's it to you that his use model is stupid?
> Leave him alone and just plonk him if he's too stupid to understand you.

The reality is that it's far more secure to use NFC from your phone than
to use a credit card, either with a chip or with NFC.

If your credit card is stolen then you're not responsible for
unauthorized charges, but it's a hassle to dispute the charges and have
them reversed. If your phone is stolen, without the PIN, face, or
fingerprint it's not possible to use Apple Pay, Google Pay, or Samsung Pay.

The additional security is that your actual physical card information is
not stored on the phone.