Is it possible to install a VMSINSTAL kit in a user
directory?

If yes: how?

Arne

On Sunday, 16 January 2022 at 11:18:14 am UTC+10:30, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> Is it possible to install a VMSINSTAL kit in a user
> directory?
>
> If yes: how?
>
> Arne
I assume you mean install an existing kit with a system directory target in a user directory instead?

You might be able to play with logical names - look at the KITINSTAL.

Alternatively if it is not a one off exercise, unpack the kit, modify KITINSTAL, rebuild the kit.

Building kits to install in a non-system directory is pretty simple. There used to be a manual covering the whole VMSKITBLD, KITINSTAL, VMSINSTAL ecosystem.

On 1/15/2022 7:48 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> Is it possible to install a VMSINSTAL kit in a user
> directory?
>
> If yes: how?
>
> Arne
>

To specifically answer your question, yes. As a LD container. Copy the data,
multiple ways.

But the question I think you really wanted to ask is can the media be installed
from a user directory. That answer I think is no.

To install, one needs to boot the installation media. That must be from a
device, as far as I know.

The method I and others have used is to move the installation media into a
directory and mount it as an LD device. Then IMAGE restore it to an actual
disk. Then boot that disk.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

Den 2022-01-16 kl. 08:36, skrev Dave Froble:
> On 1/15/2022 7:48 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> Is it possible to install a VMSINSTAL kit in a user
>> directory?
>>
>> If yes: how?
>>
>> Arne
>>
>
> To specifically answer your question, yes.  As a LD container.  Copy the
> data, multiple ways.
>
> But the question I think you really wanted to ask is can the media be
> installed from a user directory.  That answer I think is no.
>
> To install, one needs to boot the installation media.  That must be from a
> device, as far as I know.

Weird...
I have installed multiple VMSINSTAL kits without *booting* them...

I'm sure that the questing is regarding the target for the installation
from any VMSINSTAL kit not, *not* specifically a VMS OS distribution kit.

>
> The method I and others have used is to move the installation media into a
> directory and mount it as an LD device.  Then IMAGE restore it to an actual
> disk.  Then boot that disk.
>

Arne,

what exactly are you looking for ?

You can use the VMSINSTAL option "R" to install the product onto an alternate system disk, not the one @VMSINSTAL has been started from.

see the OpenVMS Developer’s Guide to VMSINSTAL:
https://www.digiater.nl/openvms/doc/alpha-v8.3/ovms_archived/OVMS_DEVGD_VMSINSTAL.PDF

Whether the product's KITINSTAL.COM procedure allows installation of the product onto a different specific directory, is up to that procedure.

Volker.

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 7:17:15 AM UTC-5, Volker Halle wrote:
> Arne,
>
> what exactly are you looking for ?
>
> You can use the VMSINSTAL option "R" to install the product onto an alternate system disk, not the one @VMSINSTAL has been started from.
>
> see the OpenVMS Developer’s Guide to VMSINSTAL:
> https://www.digiater.nl/openvms/doc/alpha-v8.3/ovms_archived/OVMS_DEVGD_VMSINSTAL.PDF
>
> Whether the product's KITINSTAL.COM procedure allows installation of the product onto a different specific directory, is up to that procedure.
>
> Volker.
If I read the original post intent correctly, the question is: Can you install a kit with a user directory as the target rather than the standard system directories (current or alternate root as in a cluster).

I believe that the answer to this is NO.

You CAN place the kit anywhere you want and have that directory be the SOURCE of the installation process.

On 1/16/2022 8:38 AM, abrsvc wrote:
> On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 7:17:15 AM UTC-5, Volker Halle wrote:
>> what exactly are you looking for ?
>>
>> You can use the VMSINSTAL option "R" to install the product onto an
>> alternate system disk, not the one @VMSINSTAL has been started
>> from.
>>
>> see the OpenVMS Developer’s Guide to VMSINSTAL:
>> https://www.digiater.nl/openvms/doc/alpha-v8.3/ovms_archived/OVMS_DEVGD_VMSINSTAL.PDF
>>
>> Whether the product's KITINSTAL.COM procedure allows installation of
>> the product onto a different specific directory, is up to that
>> procedure.

> If I read the original post intent correctly, the question is: Can
> you install a kit with a user directory as the target rather than the
> standard system directories (current or alternate root as in a
> cluster).

Yes.

@VMINSTAL of some product
install in DISKn:[ARNE.TO_BE_DELETED]
try it out
just delete it

> I believe that the answer to this is NO.
>
> You CAN place the kit anywhere you want and have that directory be
> the SOURCE of the installation process.

I do that all the time.

Arne

Den 2022-01-16 kl. 15:49, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
> On 1/16/2022 8:38 AM, abrsvc wrote:
>> On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 7:17:15 AM UTC-5, Volker Halle wrote:
>>> what exactly are you looking for ?
>>>
>>> You can use the VMSINSTAL option "R" to install the product onto an
>>> alternate system disk, not the one @VMSINSTAL has been started
>>> from.
>>>
>>> see the OpenVMS Developer’s Guide to VMSINSTAL:
>>> https://www.digiater.nl/openvms/doc/alpha-v8.3/ovms_archived/OVMS_DEVGD_VMSINSTAL.PDF
>>>
>>>
> >> Whether the product's KITINSTAL.COM procedure allows installation of
> >> the product onto a different specific directory, is up to that
> >> procedure.
>
>> If I read the original post intent correctly, the question is: Can
>> you install a kit with a user directory as the target rather than the
>> standard system directories (current or alternate root as in a
>> cluster).
>
> Yes.
>
> @VMINSTAL of some product
> install in DISKn:[ARNE.TO_BE_DELETED]
> try it out
> just delete it
>
>> I believe that the answer to this is NO.
>>
>> You CAN place the kit anywhere you want and have that directory be
>> the SOURCE of the installation process.
>
> I do that all the time.
>
> Arne
>

I think that would have been much easier top answer if we knew what
kit it is all about. Or is it a general question?

On 1/16/2022 11:13 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2022-01-16 kl. 15:49, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>> On 1/16/2022 8:38 AM, abrsvc wrote:
>>> On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 7:17:15 AM UTC-5, Volker Halle wrote:
>>>> what exactly are you looking for ?
>>>>
>>>> You can use the VMSINSTAL option "R" to install the product onto an
>>>> alternate system disk, not the one @VMSINSTAL has been started
>>>> from.
>>>>
>>>> see the OpenVMS Developer’s Guide to VMSINSTAL:
>>>> https://www.digiater.nl/openvms/doc/alpha-v8.3/ovms_archived/OVMS_DEVGD_VMSINSTAL.PDF
>>>>
>>>>
>>  >> Whether the product's KITINSTAL.COM procedure allows installation of
>>  >> the product onto a different specific directory, is up to that
>>  >> procedure.
>>
>>> If I read the original post intent correctly, the question is: Can
>>> you install a kit with a user directory as the target rather than the
>>> standard system directories (current or alternate root as in a
>>> cluster).
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> @VMINSTAL of some product
>> install in DISKn:[ARNE.TO_BE_DELETED]
>> try it out
>> just delete it

> I think that would have been much easier top answer if we knew what
> kit it is all about. Or is it a general question?

The kit that triggered the question was the FIS GT.M 6.2 kit for
VMS Alpha that I mentioned recently.

But that kit is not a problem, because the installation actually
ask whether one want to install on system and if one answers NO
then it ask for disk and directory to install (and also asks
whether various COM files should be copied to system disk). All
good.

So the question was really generic.

Arne

On 1/16/2022 7:15 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2022-01-16 kl. 08:36, skrev Dave Froble:
>> On 1/15/2022 7:48 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> Is it possible to install a VMSINSTAL kit in a user
>>> directory?
>>>
>>> If yes: how?
>>>
>>> Arne
>>>
>>
>> To specifically answer your question, yes. As a LD container. Copy the data,
>> multiple ways.
>>
>> But the question I think you really wanted to ask is can the media be
>> installed from a user directory. That answer I think is no.
>>
>> To install, one needs to boot the installation media. That must be from a
>> device, as far as I know.
>
> Weird...
> I have installed multiple VMSINSTAL kits without *booting* them...
>
> I'm sure that the questing is regarding the target for the installation
> from any VMSINSTAL kit not, *not* specifically a VMS OS distribution kit.

Quite right. I assumed Arne was discussing the OS media. Once more I ASS-U-ME.

>> The method I and others have used is to move the installation media into a
>> directory and mount it as an LD device. Then IMAGE restore it to an actual
>> disk. Then boot that disk.
>>
>

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486