On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 3:30:17 AM UTC-5, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2022-01-01, alanfe...@gmail.com <alanfe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > People want to save face. I suppose maybe it's better to pretend you're a celebrity and just ignore the hate mail, hateful tweets, unfair attacks and criticisms and the like. But this is face-to-face in-your-face out-in-public nastiness.
> >
> > Wow, some welcome I get after returning from a long hiatus. So be it. Actually I opened with another question and it went much better than this one did. OK.
> >
> Seriously Alan ?

Yes.
>
> You want to pretend to be the good guy after the comments you have made
> about the US and the rest of the world ?
> Simon.

I'm not pretending. I made some silly mistakes. People attacked me. _I corrected the mistakes._ The attacks continued unabated. I guess good guys don't make mistakes.

Most of his replies to my posts were snide, hostile, super nitpicks, and ignoring my corrections. Oh, but that's okay. It's only when I return the favor that it's a problem.

He asked about practical use of the manufactured elements. I responded to that. He replied again completely ignoring that, repeating his spiel about practical uses.

His own reference proves me right about manufactured elements. He claims I was cornered. I was only "cornered" because people ignored my corrections.

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/c/_ofidSDZUJ0/m/B9xYCvAUDgAJ
https://www.businessinsider.com/this-brilliant-graphic-shows-you-which-country-discovered-every-element-in-the-periodic-table-2014-4?r=US&IR=T

My god. My initial comment was just that there's nothing wrong with the Fahrenheit scale for normal ordinary use by laypeople. In fact it was Jan-Erik who started the whole thing with his snide remark about Fahrenheit not being a "standard" temperature scale.

Nothing but snide remarks from him:

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/c/_ofidSDZUJ0/m/QAPQZq48DAAJ

And this:

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/c/_ofidSDZUJ0/m/ZvEq9CkcDAAJ

"thought it sounded a bit high." Brilliant. Who could have guessed?

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/c/_ofidSDZUJ0/m/QAPQZq48DAAJ

Amazing: A good friendly informative response from him:

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/c/_ofidSDZUJ0/m/1GczNXcqDQAJ

Here's a case where he explicitly acknowledges my correction, repeats the bit about practical uses that I had already explained, and then writes as if I hadn't made the correction he himself explicitly admits!

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/c/_ofidSDZUJ0/m/yWLQ1uHvDQAJ

There's probably more, but I think I've made my point. He did more than nitpick. He was gleefully hostile and ignored my corrections again and again. Oh, but that's perfectly okay because English is not his native language. Is that your point? I return the favor only mildly, and suddenly I'm the villain.

My god. All I did was say that Fahrenheit was perfectly fine for normal ordinary use by laypeople.

>
> --
> Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
> Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Alan

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 3:30:17 AM UTC-5, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2022-01-01, alanfe...@gmail.com <alanfe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > People want to save face. I suppose maybe it's better to pretend you're a celebrity and just ignore the hate mail, hateful tweets, unfair attacks and criticisms and the like. But this is face-to-face in-your-face out-in-public nastiness.
> >
> > Wow, some welcome I get after returning from a long hiatus. So be it. Actually I opened with another question and it went much better than this one did. OK.
> >
> Seriously Alan ?
>
> You want to pretend to be the good guy after the comments you have made
> about the US and the rest of the world ?

Sorry, I missed this one.
What comments about the rest of the world?
I made my comments about the US because people (at least Jan-Erik and Johnny Billquist) were bashing the US because it uses Fahrenheit, and then later, which I'm pretty sure I didn't bring into the discussion, the US Customary system of units (and, by association, the Imperial and English systems). All I was saying is that even though the US uses Fahrenheit, it still did many great things. F didn't hold us back. That's it! I meant no denigration of other countries; I was simply defending my own. Hmmm, I think I read that somewhere before? No problem. I miss things, too. I often joke, "You only need to say it twice"!

Again, I "bragged" about the US only because people here were bashing it. I don't recall ever initiating any hostility or bragging here. But I did respond to hostility against me by others!

Again: My god, all I did was say that Fahrenheit is a perfectly find temperature scale for normal ordinary everyday use by laypeople.

> Simon.
>
> --
> Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
[...]

Alan

Trying to stay out, but what the hell...

On 2022-01-02 18:58, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 3:30:17 AM UTC-5, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2022-01-01, alanfe...@gmail.com <alanfe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> People want to save face. I suppose maybe it's better to pretend you're a celebrity and just ignore the hate mail, hateful tweets, unfair attacks and criticisms and the like. But this is face-to-face in-your-face out-in-public nastiness.
>>>
>>> Wow, some welcome I get after returning from a long hiatus. So be it. Actually I opened with another question and it went much better than this one did. OK.
>>>
>> Seriously Alan ?
>>
>> You want to pretend to be the good guy after the comments you have made
>> about the US and the rest of the world ?
>
> Sorry, I missed this one.
> What comments about the rest of the world?
> I made my comments about the US because people (at least Jan-Erik and Johnny Billquist) were bashing the US because it uses Fahrenheit, and then later, which I'm pretty sure I didn't bring into the discussion, the US Customary system of units (and, by association, the Imperial and English systems). All I was saying is that even though the US uses Fahrenheit, it still did many great things. F didn't hold us back. That's it! I meant no denigration of other countries; I was simply defending my own. Hmmm, I think I read that somewhere before? No problem. I miss things, too. I often joke, "You only need to say it twice"!

I wasn't bashing the US. I was bashing you, because you fail to
understand the difference between mass and force. And I think that
switching to C from F would be beneficial, but I understand it's
unlikely to happen. Mostly because of people like you.

> Again, I "bragged" about the US only because people here were bashing it. I don't recall ever initiating any hostility or bragging here. But I did respond to hostility against me by others!

Yes. Your Germans were better than the Russian Germans. Continue
bragging. You're definitely good at that.

Johnny

On 2022-01-02 14:05, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
>>
>> A number of the posters around here are not native English speakers
>> but still speak excellent English, Jan-Erik included.
>>
>> Do you speak their native languages as well as they speak yours ?
>
> All svenska jag kan har jag ldrt mig fren porr.

:-D :-D

Johnny

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:41:08 PM UTC-5, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> Trying to stay out, but what the hell...
> On 2022-01-02 18:58, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 3:30:17 AM UTC-5, Simon Clubley wrote:
> >> On 2022-01-01, alanfe...@gmail.com <alanfe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> People want to save face. I suppose maybe it's better to pretend you're a celebrity and just ignore the hate mail, hateful tweets, unfair attacks and criticisms and the like. But this is face-to-face in-your-face out-in-public nastiness.
> >>>
> >>> Wow, some welcome I get after returning from a long hiatus. So be it. Actually I opened with another question and it went much better than this one did. OK.
> >>>
> >> Seriously Alan ?
> >>
> >> You want to pretend to be the good guy after the comments you have made
> >> about the US and the rest of the world ?
> >
> > Sorry, I missed this one.
> > What comments about the rest of the world?
> > I made my comments about the US because people (at least Jan-Erik and Johnny Billquist) were bashing the US because it uses Fahrenheit, and then later, which I'm pretty sure I didn't bring into the discussion, the US Customary system of units (and, by association, the Imperial and English systems). All I was saying is that even though the US uses Fahrenheit, it still did many great things. F didn't hold us back. That's it! I meant no denigration of other countries; I was simply defending my own. Hmmm, I think I read that somewhere before? No problem. I miss things, too. I often joke, "You only need to say it twice"!
> I wasn't bashing the US. I was bashing you, because you fail to
> understand the difference between mass and force. And I think that

That's _your opinion_ and I'm well aware of it, and thanks for telling me for the umpteenth time. It's been noted and discarded for the umpteenth time..

> switching to C from F would be beneficial, but I understand it's
> unlikely to happen. Mostly because of people like you.

Sir, your opinion that C is superior to F has been noted. And I don't really care.

> > Again, I "bragged" about the US only because people here were bashing it. I don't recall ever initiating any hostility or bragging here. But I did respond to hostility against me by others!

You were saying Americans are foolish to not switch to C. Seems like America-bashing to me! This is in _addition_ to your bashing me. Did I bash you back except to say that nobody gives a flying petunia about your lbs vs lbf nonsense? Nobody cares, and like I said before, I am not going to argue and explain all the subtleties that we all here already know about mass and weight.

And just how Americans would benefit by switching to C? By not confusing Jan-Erik with data centers being kept at 80 deg.?
AND DON'T BRING UP SCIENCE. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT SCIENCE, AND AMERICA ALREADY USES PLENTY OF METRIC UNITS IN NORMAL ORDINARY EVERYDAY LIFE. Clearly C and kelvins are better in science. I never disputed that. And Americans _do_ use C and kelvins in science. Maybe the engineers use customary units in their work. I don't know. Go bug _them_.

> Yes. Your Germans were better than the Russian Germans. Continue
> bragging. You're definitely good at that.

Say what? Are we drifting into WWII here? Let's not go there.

I know one thing for sure: You're exceedingly good at nitpicking!

BTW, Europe has plenty to brag about in science and engineering. Including quantum mechanics! And that's a real biggie!!! I've never said otherwise! My reply to the America-bashing was to say that despite using F, we still managed to do great things, like putting 12 men on the moon and manufacturing elements THAT ARE NOT FOUND LYING AROUND IN NATURE. Oh, but some Europeans dug some regular elements out of the ground (and from gases and whatnot) and identified them. Fine, but I was talking about manufacturing them, which I think is rather impressive. After making that and the issue of practicality clear, at least Jan-Erik continued going on about the elements found in nature and repeatedly asking of what use the manufactured ones were, all after I explained everything. He just ignores what I say again and again. Oh, but it's I who am the villain here.

Again, all I said was that Fahrenheit is perfectly fine for normal ordinary everyday use by laypeople. That's all I said. Then you and others burst into the scene saying we Americans are a bunch of fools for not using C instead of F. So I bashed back, and now I am accused of initiating it and acting in bad faith and am not allowed to correct myself and so on. No sir, I don't like it!

Aside, perhaps, for my initial comment about F, my words here have been reactive. And I certainly did not initiate any hostility. Yet I am getting all the blame.

I did not initiate any attacks. My replies were totally reasonable.

If someone got caught in the cross-fire of all the ugly >>>'s, I apologize. It seemed like a unified attack on me. So be it.

My God, all I said was that Fahrenheit is perfectly fine for normal ordinary everyday use by laypeople.

> Johnny

Alan

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 9:30:40 AM UTC-5, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 1/2/22 3:25 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> > On 2021-12-31, alanfe...@gmail.com <alanfe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 5:43:52 AM UTC-5, Simon Clubley wrote:
> >>> On 2021-12-28, alanfe...@gmail.com <alanfe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 7:21:29 PM UTC-5, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> >>>>> To points.
> >>>>
> >>>> What was that? "To" points? It's two, not to. Hah!
> >>>>
> >>> Can you speak Swedish as well as Jan-Erik can speak English ?
> >>>
> >>> Are all US citizens as bad as you ? :-(
> >>
> >> Let's see what Jan-Erik wrote:
> >>
> >
> > It's nothing to do with the temperature discussions but with your
> > crass comment above.
> >
> > A number of the posters around here are not native English speakers
> > but still speak excellent English, Jan-Erik included.
> >
> > Do you speak their native languages as well as they speak yours ?
> >
> Speaks three languages : multilingual
> Speaks two languages : bilingual
> Speaks one language : American

Only needs to speak one language: American (~_^)

>
> bill

Alan

In article <ed1e798a-a654-45cf-a887-f47787ec5111n@googlegroups.com>,
"alanfe...@gmail.com" <alanfeldman48@gmail.com> writes:

> Only needs to speak one language: American (~_^)

If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for the schoolchildren
of Texas.

---Texas governor James Ferguson, 1917, explaining why he vetoed a
bill funding the teaching of foreign languages in Texas schools.

On 2022-01-02 22:41, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:41:08 PM UTC-5, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>> Trying to stay out, but what the hell...
>> On 2022-01-02 18:58, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I made my comments about the US because people (at least Jan-Erik and Johnny Billquist) were bashing the US because it uses Fahrenheit, and then later, which I'm pretty sure I didn't bring into the discussion, the US Customary system of units (and, by association, the Imperial and English systems). All I was saying is that even though the US uses Fahrenheit, it still did many great things. F didn't hold us back. That's it! I meant no denigration of other countries; I was simply defending my own. Hmmm, I think I read that somewhere before? No problem. I miss things, too. I often joke, "You only need to say it twice"!
>> I wasn't bashing the US. I was bashing you, because you fail to
>> understand the difference between mass and force. And I think that
>
> That's _your opinion_ and I'm well aware of it, and thanks for telling me for the umpteenth time. It's been noted and discarded for the umpteenth time.
>
>> switching to C from F would be beneficial, but I understand it's
>> unlikely to happen. Mostly because of people like you.
>
> Sir, your opinion that C is superior to F has been noted. And I don't really care.

Then stop dropping my name into your diatribes. If you hadn't thrown my
name in and attributing me to saying things I didn't, I wouldn't have
commented.

>>> Again, I "bragged" about the US only because people here were bashing it. I don't recall ever initiating any hostility or bragging here. But I did respond to hostility against me by others!
>
> You were saying Americans are foolish to not switch to C. Seems like America-bashing to me! This is in _addition_ to your bashing me. Did I bash you back except to say that nobody gives a flying petunia about your lbs vs lbf nonsense? Nobody cares, and like I said before, I am not going to argue and explain all the subtleties that we all here already know about mass and weight.

Are you having an argument with yourself now? You are making a comment
on what you wrote...

And I'm sure a lot of people cares about the difference between mass
(lbs) and force (lbf), even if you don't grasp the concept.

Johnny

On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 8:49:06 AM UTC-5, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> On 2022-01-02 22:41, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:41:08 PM UTC-5, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> >> Trying to stay out, but what the hell...
> >> On 2022-01-02 18:58, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> I made my comments about the US because people (at least Jan-Erik and Johnny Billquist) were bashing the US because it uses Fahrenheit, and then later, which I'm pretty sure I didn't bring into the discussion, the US Customary system of units (and, by association, the Imperial and English systems). All I was saying is that even though the US uses Fahrenheit, it still did many great things. F didn't hold us back. That's it! I meant no denigration of other countries; I was simply defending my own. Hmmm, I think I read that somewhere before? No problem. I miss things, too. I often joke, "You only need to say it twice"!
> >> I wasn't bashing the US. I was bashing you, because you fail to
> >> understand the difference between mass and force. And I think that
> >
> > That's _your opinion_ and I'm well aware of it, and thanks for telling me for the umpteenth time. It's been noted and discarded for the umpteenth time.
> >
> >> switching to C from F would be beneficial, but I understand it's
> >> unlikely to happen. Mostly because of people like you.
> >
> > Sir, your opinion that C is superior to F has been noted. And I don't really care.
> Then stop dropping my name into your diatribes. If you hadn't thrown my
> name in and attributing me to saying things I didn't, I wouldn't have
> commented.

Fine. I was merely summing up the thread, but I'll not mention your name in such a manner henceforth. You clearly said that Americans would benefit from using C instead of F. The clear implication is that Americans are foolish not to. Seems like America-bashing to me. You claim it's not. Fine. I "bragged" about America only to show that F hasn't held us back, that a country who is "backward, as they still use F," has still done some great things NTL. And to reiterate, Europe has plenty to brag about. And what temperature scales laypeople use has nothing to do with it.

> >>> Again, I "bragged" about the US only because people here were bashing it. I don't recall ever initiating any hostility or bragging here. But I did respond to hostility against me by others!
> >
> > You were saying Americans are foolish to not switch to C. Seems like America-bashing to me! This is in _addition_ to your bashing me. Did I bash you back except to say that nobody gives a flying petunia about your lbs vs lbf nonsense? Nobody cares, and like I said before, I am not going to argue and explain all the subtleties that we all here already know about mass and weight.
> Are you having an argument with yourself now? You are making a comment
> on what you wrote...

No. Explain.
> And I'm sure a lot of people cares about the difference between mass
> (lbs) and force (lbf), even if you don't grasp the concept.

_Your_ opinion, which is wrong. As for those who do care, I don't care about them.

I'm sure few very people even know about, let alone care about, lbf. Like it or not, Americans use lbs. and it's likely to stay that way for quite awhile -- right or wrong. Any nobody cares except you. You really are pretty passionate about it, no? And they're talking about how much they weigh, not what force they are exerting on the scale. CONTEXT MATTERS!

Equating knowledge of silly arcane units with knowledge of mass vs. weight or force or whatnot is, well, silly. OK, I'll throw you a bone: I'll give you the bit about lbs. vs. lbf. OK? Are you happy now? I guess, by your "logic," I have suddenly acquired the knowledge of mass vs. weight. NO! The fact that I didn't until now still doesn't mean I didn't know the difference between mass and weight and forces and whatnot before that. Also, I don't normally pull rank, but I am a physicist by training, for Chrissake. I think I know the difference. Couldn't have become a physicist if I didn't. And and as for the words weigh and weight (which is how much you weigh!), as I've already illustrated: CONTEXT MATTERS. I'll rehash it for you: You can go to the moon, and you'll weigh less, but you won't have lost any weight! As I said, CONTEXT MATTERS.

CONTEXT MATTERS: You can go to the moon, and you'll weigh less, but you won't have lost any weight! As I said, CONTEXT MATTERS.

Still further even yet again, with lbs vs lbf: NOBODY CARES.

You said, _in effect_, ~"You clearly don't know the difference between weight and mass and force and whatnot solely based on your comments of lbs. vs. lbf.~" Some logic. A pretty, pretty weak case! Knowledge or lake thereof of arcane units does not mean anything about an understanding weight vs. mass. When my parents were dating, my father, who grew up and learned English in Europe, said that either he was taught wrong or that Americans don't use correct English. My mother responded, "Not me!" By your logic, this implies that she doesn't know the difference between a subject and an object. From

https://www.learnersdictionary.com/qa/When-to-Use-Me-and-I-

"It is very common for native speakers to use "me" in subject position and "I" in object position. This is fine in casual speech but should be avoided in formal writing. The following examples are some ways people might use "me" and "I" in speech."

Well, the same applies to mass and weight and weigh and whatnot.

And still yet again, weight is a word whose meaning depends on the context. How often do I have to repeat that? Oh, and there's also informal usage, as I mention above. I guess you weren't aware of such a thing.

Still yet further even also yet again, with lbs vs lbf: NOBODY CARES. Except you and maybe some engineers. Good for you and them.

Oh, and using C and F in place of their full names is also technically wrong. But it's good enough for me. I have no problem with it.
> Johnny

Alan

On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 1:19:21 PM UTC-5, alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
> > Johnny
>
> Alan

ERRATA:

Any nobody cares except you.

"Any should have been "And".

Knowledge or lake thereof of arcane units does not mean anything about an understanding weight vs. mass.

"Lake" should have been "lack".

By your logic, this implies that she doesn't know the difference between a subject and an object.

"Doesn't" should have been "didn't".

Alan

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 6:09:53 AM UTC-5, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2021-12-28 kl. 03:04, skrev alanfe...@gmail.com:
> > On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 6:50:50 PM UTC-5, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> >> Den 2021-12-27 kl. 22:28, skrev alanfe...@gmail.com:
> >>> On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 4:11:52 PM UTC-5, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >>>>> alanfe...@gmail.com wrote:

[...]

> > That AFAIK, the U.S. has manufactured more new elements than other countries.
> And the practical usage is, what?

Sorry for the late answer. Here are uses for at least two of them. There might be more. Sorry, but I don't want to leave the impression that these manufactured elements are all devoid of practical use, even though this was asked 4 weeks ago. And I musn't miss any chance I get to promote basic scientific research!

Americium-241 is used in smoke detectors and equipment testing:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=americium-241+uses

Californium is used in portable metal detectors:

https://www.google.com/search?q=californium+uses+in+everyday+life&newwindow=1&client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=AOaemvJL7SdN1Odl-QrSr5AGllMYpd35Yg%3A1643101452639&ei=DL3vYYO1Ju2nptQPpPOe4AI&oq=californium+uses&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMYATIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIECAAQHjIECAAQHjIECAAQHjIECAAQHjIECAAQHjIECAAQHjIECAAQHjoHCAAQRxCwAzoHCAAQsAMQQzoGCAAQBxAeOgYIABAFEB46BAgAEA06CAgAEA0QBRAeOggIABAIEA0QHjoFCAAQhgM6BggAEA0QHkoECEEYAEoECEYYAFD_A1jkLGCHOWgCcAJ4AIABkgKIAcgHkgEGMTAuMC4xmAEAoAEByAEKwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz

or type this into your favorite search engine:

californium uses in everyday life

and check out this one:

https://study.com/academy/lesson/what-is-californium-used-for-in-everyday-life.html

> > Maybe I'm wrong about that...
>
> Maybe not. It is not that surprising that there were some side-effects
> from the Manhattan project and other nuclear work. I just do not see
> how it matters and what the real-life usage is. Apart from proving that
> it *can* be done. That might matter for some, of course.

You would have said the same about lots of basic research, which decades later produced technological benefits. Take the ozone hole. How do you think it was discovered? How do you think anyone even learned that ozone protects us? By basic research (!), which you would have similarly pooh-poohed at the time.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3137/ao.460101

I could probably write a book about all the apparently useless discoveries in science and how they later, sometimes decades later, provided big benefits that are useful even to this day. The most important are probably the electric generator, transformers and the like, lasers, and transistors and the like. Oh, add medical advances to that, like proton therapy, MRI, PET, etc., none of which would have come to fruition without prior basic scientific research.

I've already said more about this. See my post time-stamped Dec 28, 2021, 1:29:14 PM EST. (UTC-0500)