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computers / news.admin.hierarchies / Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies

SubjectAuthor
* Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netzJulien ÉLIE
`* Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netzAdam H. Kerman
 `* Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchiesThomas Hochstein
  `* Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchiesAdam H. Kerman
   `* Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netzJulien ÉLIE
    `* Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netzAdam H. Kerman
     `* Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netzJulien ÉLIE
      `* Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netzAdam H. Kerman
       `* Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchiesRuss Allbery
        `* Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchiesAdam H. Kerman
         `* Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchiesRuss Allbery
          +* Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchiesAdam H. Kerman
          |`- Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchiesRuss Allbery
          `- Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netzJulien ÉLIE

1
Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies

<tvv9q4$cs5n$1@news.trigofacile.com>

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From: iul...@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid (Julien ÉLIE)
Newsgroups: news.admin.hierarchies
Subject: Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz
hierarchies
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2023 19:57:24 +0200
Organization: Groupes francophones par TrigoFACILE
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In-Reply-To: <87h6uy4rj1.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
 by: Julien ÉLIE - Tue, 28 Mar 2023 17:57 UTC

Hi Russ,

> my intent is to disable the
> processing of control messages for every hierarchy that doesn't have
> PGP-signed control messages, probably the next time I make a new
> control-archive release. I can leave the entries in commented out, so
> people can always uncomment them again if they want to

I'm wondering whether it would be helpful to have in ftp.isc.org:
- a control.ctl file listing only hierarchies for which a control
article was sent during the last 10 years, and drop for the rest;
- a control-comprehensive.ctl file (or whatever name) with all known
hierarchies, and with a default to drop for actions not PGP-signed.

This way, it would simplify the default control.ctl file, and news
admins can better see what is still active.

--
Julien ÉLIE

« Quand je raconterai mon odyssée, personne ne me croira ! » (Astérix)

Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies

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From: ahk...@chinet.com (Adam H. Kerman)
Newsgroups: news.admin.hierarchies
Subject: Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz
hierarchies
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 by: Adam H. Kerman - Tue, 28 Mar 2023 18:33 UTC

Julien <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> wrote:

>>. . .

>I'm wondering whether it would be helpful to have in ftp.isc.org:
>- a control.ctl file listing only hierarchies for which a control
>article was sent during the last 10 years, and drop for the rest;
>- a control-comprehensive.ctl file (or whatever name) with all known
>hierarchies, and with a default to drop for actions not PGP-signed.

>This way, it would simplify the default control.ctl file, and news
>admins can better see what is still active.

Please don't do that. Plenty of regional hierarchies lack hierarchy
administrators. But you can still find discussion in the *.misc or
*.general newsgroup, or maybe one other.

One has nothing at all to do with the other.

If no newsgroup is needed, there is no need to declare someone hierarchy
administrator. If there comes a time for a new newsgroup, then declare a
hierarchy administrator for the purpose of issuing the newgroup.

Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies

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From: thh...@thh.name (Thomas Hochstein)
Newsgroups: news.admin.hierarchies
Subject: Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies
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 by: Thomas Hochstein - Wed, 29 Mar 2023 17:29 UTC

Adam H. Kerman schrieb:

> Julien <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> wrote:
> >I'm wondering whether it would be helpful to have in ftp.isc.org:
> >- a control.ctl file listing only hierarchies for which a control
> >article was sent during the last 10 years, and drop for the rest;
[...]
> Please don't do that. Plenty of regional hierarchies lack hierarchy
> administrators.

If there are no hierarchy administrators, nobody is sending control
messages, so those hierarchise don't need a control.ctl entry.

> If there comes a time for a new newsgroup, then declare a
> hierarchy administrator for the purpose of issuing the newgroup.

.... and add them to control.ctl, as necessary.

(The old entries from last century won't match anyway.)

-thh

Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies

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From: ahk...@chinet.com (Adam H. Kerman)
Newsgroups: news.admin.hierarchies
Subject: Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies
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 by: Adam H. Kerman - Wed, 29 Mar 2023 18:53 UTC

Thomas Hochstein <thh@thh.name> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman schrieb:
>>Julien <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> wrote:

>>>I'm wondering whether it would be helpful to have in ftp.isc.org:
>>>- a control.ctl file listing only hierarchies for which a control
>>>article was sent during the last 10 years, and drop for the rest;
>[...]
>>Please don't do that. Plenty of regional hierarchies lack hierarchy
>>administrators.

>If there are no hierarchy administrators, nobody is sending control
>messages, so those hierarchise don't need a control.ctl entry.

>>If there comes a time for a new newsgroup, then declare a
>>hierarchy administrator for the purpose of issuing the newgroup.

>... and add them to control.ctl, as necessary.

>(The old entries from last century won't match anyway.)

In the regional hierarchies I'm familiar with, the control messages
would be sent under the old credentials.

Taking the entry out and putting it back is hardly an instant process.
This is not a good idea.

Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies

<u03rbn$g2ci$3@news.trigofacile.com>

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From: iul...@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid (Julien ÉLIE)
Newsgroups: news.admin.hierarchies
Subject: Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz
hierarchies
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2023 13:21:27 +0200
Organization: Groupes francophones par TrigoFACILE
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In-Reply-To: <u021ef$dmgp$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Julien ÉLIE - Thu, 30 Mar 2023 11:21 UTC

Hi Adam,

> In the regional hierarchies I'm familiar with, the control messages
> would be sent under the old credentials.
>
> Taking the entry out and putting it back is hardly an instant process.
> This is not a good idea.

In this thread, we discussed about changing the default values of
control.ctl to disable the processing of control messages for every
hierarchy that doesn't have PGP-signed control messages.

Sending the messages under the old credentials won't work either...
That's why I suggested to even go a bit further and no longer provide
these entries in the control.ctl file to simplify it.
Of course a full version of control.ctl can still be generated. News
admins can then choose between the stripped version with only still
active hierarchies, and the comprehensive version of more than 2700 lines...

--
Julien ÉLIE

« Quand je raconterai mon odyssée, personne ne me croira ! » (Astérix)

Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies

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From: ahk...@chinet.com (Adam H. Kerman)
Newsgroups: news.admin.hierarchies
Subject: Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz
hierarchies
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 by: Adam H. Kerman - Thu, 30 Mar 2023 14:16 UTC

Julien <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> wrote:

>Hi Adam,

>>In the regional hierarchies I'm familiar with, the control messages
>>would be sent under the old credentials.

>>Taking the entry out and putting it back is hardly an instant process.
>>This is not a good idea.

>In this thread, we discussed about changing the default values of
>control.ctl to disable the processing of control messages for every
>hierarchy that doesn't have PGP-signed control messages.

I am aware that Russ is interested in doing that and that you agree. I
am well aware of the history of Hipclone's denial of service attacks
with control messages, which is why PGP-signed control messages were
created to begin with. This was three and a half decades ago. A decision
was made at the time not to force regional hierarchies and other
international hierarchies, which rarely had hierarchy administrators who
were technically proficient, into implementing this.

We also know that various regional hierarchies and international
hierarchies in languages other than English didn't necessarily maintain
their group lists with control messages anyway, or that no one
responsible checked the archive of control messages to make sure it had
a complete record.

Given the distributed nature of Usenet administration, that's reality.

>Sending the messages under the old credentials won't work either...

I am aware if you succeed in getting every News administrator to adopt
this, that will be the case. Without recognized PGP-signed credentials,
we're assuming a user will request creation of the group from his News
administrator and that the control message will be processed manually.

>That's why I suggested to even go a bit further and no longer provide
>these entries in the control.ctl file to simplify it.

No, Julien, that makes things more complicated. In the absence of a News
administrator following discussion of the proposal to create the new
group in the *.general newsgroup for the hierarchy (there's unlikely to
be a *.config newsgroup), he's going to have to use his best judgment
to figure out if there's truly an audience for the group or someone
immature is screwing around, or someone trying to impose topic
moderation in unmoderated Usenet is causing trouble by attempting to
force discussion he doesn't want to see to take place elsewhere 'cuz he
just doesn't wanna use his own kill file.

At least with the old credentials remaining in control.ctl, even if
commented out, a newgroup message sent with the old credentials might
give a News administrator more confidence that the proposed newsgroup
went through some legitimate process to form a consensus that discussion
on that topic might more to the proposed newsgroup, and that it's not
being done for petty or spiteful reasons.

>Of course a full version of control.ctl can still be generated. News
>admins can then choose between the stripped version with only still
>active hierarchies, and the comprehensive version of more than 2700 lines...

Why would a News administrator care about the number of lines in
control.ctl? If he needs to search for matching credentials, then he
wants to be able to find the information in that file and doesn't want
to figure out some other place to find it. Again, stripping out the
information he needs to find would actually make things more complicated.

Julien, you are conflating "active" with whether discussion is still
taking place in groups in that hierarchy. The issue of whether a
technically proficient hierarchy administrator exists for a regional
hierarchy is not any kind of hint to a News administrator that he should
create groups in that hierarchy.

This is a bad idea. Please do not do this.

I am going to remind you of a regional hierarchy that was well known for
being administered by technically-proficient people that had established
PGP-signed control messages, but the key was lost. I'm not going to name
the parties but given that most regional hierarchies have a fairly
stable set of newsgroups and might not change for close to a decade,
loss of the key is a real possibility.

Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies

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From: iul...@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid (Julien ÉLIE)
Newsgroups: news.admin.hierarchies
Subject: Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz
hierarchies
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2023 20:59:05 +0200
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In-Reply-To: <u045jq$taqo$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Julien ÉLIE - Thu, 30 Mar 2023 18:59 UTC

Hi Adam,

> At least with the old credentials remaining in control.ctl, even if
> commented out, a newgroup message sent with the old credentials might
> give a News administrator more confidence that the proposed newsgroup
> went through some legitimate process to form a consensus that discussion
> on that topic might more to the proposed newsgroup, and that it's not
> being done for petty or spiteful reasons.

Thanks for your detailed answer.
I'm wondering whether we shouldn't encourage people willing to have the
"latest known" list of newsgroups of regional hierarchies to just sync
their list with the active and newsgroups file in ftp.isc.org?
Once a week for instance they just run a tool which does that job (INN
comes with actsync to achieve that, but one can write his own tool if he
wants).

I am under the impression it will be easier to get the ftp.isc.org files
right and up-to-date, especially when there's a change in a control.ctl
entry, than hoping every news admin to update their control.ctl file and
keys.

Some news admins may want to set up processing control articles, and
follow up on control.ctl changes, but others may just want to sync their
list. It seems to be less burden.

> The issue of whether a
> technically proficient hierarchy administrator exists for a regional
> hierarchy is not any kind of hint to a News administrator that he should
> create groups in that hierarchy.

I see your point.
I was trying to find a way to improve and facilitate the updates.

> I am going to remind you of a regional hierarchy that was well known for
> being administered by technically-proficient people that had established
> PGP-signed control messages, but the key was lost. I'm not going to name
> the parties but given that most regional hierarchies have a fairly
> stable set of newsgroups and might not change for close to a decade,
> loss of the key is a real possibility.

I totally see :-)

--
Julien ÉLIE

« Plus j'y pense, plus je me dis qu'il n'y a aucune raison pour que le
carré de l'hypoténuse soit égal à la somme des carrés des deux autres
côtés. » (San-Antonio)

Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies

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From: ahk...@chinet.com (Adam H. Kerman)
Newsgroups: news.admin.hierarchies
Subject: Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz
hierarchies
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 02:03:42 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Adam H. Kerman - Fri, 31 Mar 2023 02:03 UTC

Julien <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> wrote:

>Hi Adam,

>>At least with the old credentials remaining in control.ctl, even if
>>commented out, a newgroup message sent with the old credentials might
>>give a News administrator more confidence that the proposed newsgroup
>>went through some legitimate process to form a consensus that discussion
>>on that topic might more to the proposed newsgroup, and that it's not
>>being done for petty or spiteful reasons.

>Thanks for your detailed answer.
>I'm wondering whether we shouldn't encourage people willing to have the
>"latest known" list of newsgroups of regional hierarchies to just sync
>their list with the active and newsgroups file in ftp.isc.org?

Alas, there is no shortage of archived control messages with the For your
newsgroup file line in bad syntax, or missing altogether. The occassional
proponent in alt.config is told of the need to get the syntax right and
to have a useful brief description because we know that certain News
administrators require that the two files at ftp.isc.org be updated.

I'm unclear on what Russ's plan to require PGP-signed control messages
will mean for processing control messages at ftp.isc.org with respect to
archiving and updating the two files.

>Once a week for instance they just run a tool which does that job (INN
>comes with actsync to achieve that, but one can write his own tool if he
>wants).

>I am under the impression it will be easier to get the ftp.isc.org files
>right and up-to-date, especially when there's a change in a control.ctl
>entry, than hoping every news admin to update their control.ctl file and
>keys.

You could be right. I just don't see the issue getting fixed, given that
some control messages aren't archived, some instances in which there
were no newgroup messages, and missing or lousy syntax of the For your
newsgroups file line.

>Some news admins may want to set up processing control articles, and
>follow up on control.ctl changes, but others may just want to sync their
>list. It seems to be less burden.

>>The issue of whether a
>>technically proficient hierarchy administrator exists for a regional
>>hierarchy is not any kind of hint to a News administrator that he should
>>create groups in that hierarchy.

>I see your point.
>I was trying to find a way to improve and facilitate the updates.

It would have been nice if the person issuing the control message
checked the archive to make sure it was acted upon as expected.

>>I am going to remind you of a regional hierarchy that was well known for
>>being administered by technically-proficient people that had established
>>PGP-signed control messages, but the key was lost. I'm not going to name
>>the parties but given that most regional hierarchies have a fairly
>>stable set of newsgroups and might not change for close to a decade,
>>loss of the key is a real possibility.

>I totally see :-)

Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies

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From: eag...@eyrie.org (Russ Allbery)
Newsgroups: news.admin.hierarchies
Subject: Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2023 20:34:28 -0700
Organization: The Eyrie
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 by: Russ Allbery - Fri, 31 Mar 2023 03:34 UTC

"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> writes:

> I'm unclear on what Russ's plan to require PGP-signed control messages
> will mean for processing control messages at ftp.isc.org with respect to
> archiving and updating the two files.

I'm happy to keep archiving everything, signed or not, as long as
ftp.isc.org is willing to serve it, since it's entirely automated and I
don't think I spend even an hour a year on it. (Should they ever stop
providing hosting, the archive will probably disappear, since I'm not
willing to deal with the hassle and potential legal liability of hosting
any sort of archive personally. But so far they seem happy to keep doing
it.)

> You could be right. I just don't see the issue getting fixed, given that
> some control messages aren't archived, some instances in which there
> were no newgroup messages, and missing or lousy syntax of the For your
> newsgroups file line.

Fixing the ftp.isc.org file just requires someone mailing
usenet-config@isc.org saying what they're trying to do. I might try to
figure out whether they're legitimate, or ask here, but thankfully there's
not a lot of active abuse at the moment and usually it's pretty easy to
tell whether something is above-board. And we can always reverse whatever
changes we make.

> It would have been nice if the person issuing the control message
> checked the archive to make sure it was acted upon as expected.

This is part of why I automatically post all the changes once a week.
(Except for any of the "accept newgroup messages from anyone" hierarchies,
since that's just way too easy to exploit. free.* in particular is
essentially nothing but personal insults in newsgroup name form.)

--
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies

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From: ahk...@chinet.com (Adam H. Kerman)
Newsgroups: news.admin.hierarchies
Subject: Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies
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 by: Adam H. Kerman - Fri, 31 Mar 2023 05:46 UTC

Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> wrote:
>"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> writes:

>>I'm unclear on what Russ's plan to require PGP-signed control messages
>>will mean for processing control messages at ftp.isc.org with respect to
>>archiving and updating the two files.

>I'm happy to keep archiving everything, signed or not, as long as
>ftp.isc.org is willing to serve it, since it's entirely automated and I
>don't think I spend even an hour a year on it. (Should they ever stop
>providing hosting, the archive will probably disappear, since I'm not
>willing to deal with the hassle and potential legal liability of hosting
>any sort of archive personally. But so far they seem happy to keep doing
>it.)

Will unsigned control messages with For your newsgroups file lines in
good syntax update active and newsgroups?

>>. . .

Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies

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From: eag...@eyrie.org (Russ Allbery)
Newsgroups: news.admin.hierarchies
Subject: Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 08:55:51 -0700
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 by: Russ Allbery - Fri, 31 Mar 2023 15:55 UTC

"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> writes:

> Will unsigned control messages with For your newsgroups file lines in
> good syntax update active and newsgroups?

For alt.* and free.*, yes. For everything else, not once I get a chance
to do a new control-archive release and require PGP.

Currently, this is a very theoretical concern, since (per the previous
discussion) I don't believe anyone is issuing unsigned control messages
for anything other than alt.* and free.* (and I haven't seen a new alt.*
control message for a while). If it becomes a practical problem in some
regional hierarchy, just email usenet-config@isc.org and I'm sure we can
sort things out. I have frequently made manual updates to regional
hierarchies in the past when it was too difficult to sort out the control
messages for whatever reason.

--
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies

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Newsgroups: news.admin.hierarchies
Subject: Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies
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 by: Adam H. Kerman - Fri, 31 Mar 2023 19:24 UTC

Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> wrote:
>"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> writes:

>>Will unsigned control messages with For your newsgroups file lines in
>>good syntax update active and newsgroups?

>For alt.* and free.*, yes. For everything else, not once I get a chance
>to do a new control-archive release and require PGP.

>Currently, this is a very theoretical concern, since (per the previous
>discussion) I don't believe anyone is issuing unsigned control messages
>for anything other than alt.* and free.* (and I haven't seen a new alt.*
>control message for a while). If it becomes a practical problem in some
>regional hierarchy, just email usenet-config@isc.org and I'm sure we can
>sort things out. I have frequently made manual updates to regional
>hierarchies in the past when it was too difficult to sort out the control
>messages for whatever reason.

This will then make you hierarchy administrator for a whole lot of
hierarchies.

Could you at least require the proponent or self-declared hierarchy
administrator to issue an unsigned control message to get archived
with the newsgroups file line in good syntax before you make the manual
change? That there's no archived control message in all circumstances
has not been helpful.

Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies

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From: eag...@eyrie.org (Russ Allbery)
Newsgroups: news.admin.hierarchies
Subject: Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 12:48:17 -0700
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 by: Russ Allbery - Fri, 31 Mar 2023 19:48 UTC

"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> writes:
> Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> wrote:

>> Currently, this is a very theoretical concern, since (per the previous
>> discussion) I don't believe anyone is issuing unsigned control messages
>> for anything other than alt.* and free.* (and I haven't seen a new
>> alt.* control message for a while). If it becomes a practical problem
>> in some regional hierarchy, just email usenet-config@isc.org and I'm
>> sure we can sort things out. I have frequently made manual updates to
>> regional hierarchies in the past when it was too difficult to sort out
>> the control messages for whatever reason.

> This will then make you hierarchy administrator for a whole lot of
> hierarchies.

> Could you at least require the proponent or self-declared hierarchy
> administrator to issue an unsigned control message to get archived with
> the newsgroups file line in good syntax before you make the manual
> change? That there's no archived control message in all circumstances
> has not been helpful.

Sorry, I think I was confusing. What I meant by "if it becomes a
practical problem" is specifically "if a hierarchy administrator who is
not currently issuing control messages starts up again, but doesn't start
using PGP signatures for some reason, they can then contact me and we can
work out how to process those control messages."

I didn't mean to imply I was just going to make changes without anyone
even trying to issue control messages, just that if PGP is a blocker
(which seemed to be your concern) people can always contact usenet-config
and we can figure out a good way forward.

I'm not saying I'll *never* make changes without insisting someone issue a
control message, since the point of the hierarchy lists is to be (some
version of) correct, and there have been cases where we've discovered that
most of the sites carrying the hierarchy had agreed on a group list that
was different than what ftp.isc.org had, and there was no reason to not
just fix it. Or, similarly, sometimes we reach a consensus that a
hierarchy is obsolete, and I've removed it without requiring someone issue
rmgroup messages for everything. But in general the expectation is that
people should issue control messages to change hierarchies.

--
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz hierarchies

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From: iul...@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid (Julien ÉLIE)
Newsgroups: news.admin.hierarchies
Subject: Re: State of the cz, demon, ffm, han, medlux, relcom, z-netz
hierarchies
Date: Sat, 20 May 2023 09:53:09 +0200
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In-Reply-To: <875yagrk3c.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
 by: Julien ÉLIE - Sat, 20 May 2023 07:53 UTC

Hi Russ,

> I don't believe anyone is issuing unsigned control messages
> for anything other than alt.* and free.* (and I haven't seen a new alt.*
> control message for a while).

The latest control messages for alt.* date back to 2021, and created:

alt.comp.os.windows-11
alt.comp.software.firefox
alt.comp.software.seamonkey
alt.comp.software.thunderbird
alt.binaries.by-hash

Apart from alt.binaries.by-hash that I have not looked at, all the other
created newsgroups seem pretty active, that's great!
These were good choices, and successful creations.

--
Julien ÉLIE

« Ils se souviendront de la marmite de poisson ! » (Astérix)

1
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