Tom Furie wrote:

> According to my logs, the only posts through mixmin which have those
> unexpected components to the right of news.mixmin.net!.POSTED, are
> yours.

Now _that_ is interesting!
As far as I know, I'm "normal" to any of these nntp servers, so to speak.

I just saw that Wolfang said the same thing as you, so I checked what I
could in the three newsgroups I post most to, which are, for the record:
<http://news.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
<http://news.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone>

If I filter those newsgroups on message id's containing mixmin, I can see
I'm not the only one posting to those newsgroups using the mixmin server.

But I pretty much see what you are saying looking at the PATH: headers.
Listed in short-to-long order to eliminate duplicates in the results
there are only about a dozen different PATH: headers in those newsgroups.

Path: sewer!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
Path: sewer!news.mixmin.net!news.neodome.net!mail2news
Path: sewer!news2.arglkargh.de!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
Path: sewer!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
Path: sewer!alphared!news.uzoreto.com!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
Path: sewer!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!sewer!alphared!news.uzoreto.com!aioe.org!uC+u+wrvCiJRhswcuU7oWw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
Path: sewer!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
Path: sewer!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!news.szaf.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
Path: sewer!alphared!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!news.szaf.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
Path: sewer!alphared!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!3.us.feeder.erje.net!1.us.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!news.ausics.net!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail

And only mine have the "aioe" in that Path: header.
I agree that's rather odd.

Why would my PATH: show up any differently than anyone else's does?

Ray Banana wrote:

> I just checked all articles received from mixmin during the last 10 days
> (167 in total) and the only post showing this anomaly in the Path: header
> is yours. All other articles are correct:
>
> Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!
> news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail.

That's it. You're the second person to say that, so, it must be me.
I think I need to look at those telnet scripts again.

Maybe something messed up somewhere somehow someway.
For example, the scripts mess with some headers, but not normally the PATH:
header. They just scramble the VPN and the TZONE on purpose for privacy.

Nothing fancy.
Just basic privacy.

The scripts were originally written by Marek Novotny, who has passed away.
I ported them from CentOS to Windows years ago with his expert Linux help.

Then I left them alone unless/until something broke.
Which rarely happens.

Looks like perhaps something broke.

It's either that or Steve is adding PATH: stuff just for me.
And I very much doubt that's the situation since I'm not that interesting.

Given that, I will dig into the scripts which I hadn't thought was the
issue until Wolfgang and Tim told me what they saw, and I confirmed that.

Sigh.

I apologize for what appears to be a false alarm on my part.
I'm embarrassed if that's the case, and it's looking like it indeed is.

Mea culpa.
I am sorry.

Andy Burnelli <nospam@nospam.net> wrote:

> Ray Banana wrote:
>
> > I just checked all articles received from mixmin during the last 10 days
> > (167 in total) and the only post showing this anomaly in the Path: header
> > is yours. All other articles are correct:
> >
> > Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!
> > news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail.
>
> That's it. You're the second person to say that, so, it must be me.
> I think I need to look at those telnet scripts again.
>
> Maybe something messed up somewhere somehow someway.
> For example, the scripts mess with some headers, but not normally the PATH:
> header. They just scramble the VPN and the TZONE on purpose for privacy.
>
> Nothing fancy.
> Just basic privacy.
>
> The scripts were originally written by Marek Novotny, who has passed away.
> I ported them from CentOS to Windows years ago with his expert Linux help.
>
> Then I left them alone unless/until something broke.
> Which rarely happens.
>
> Looks like perhaps something broke.
>
> It's either that or Steve is adding PATH: stuff just for me.
> And I very much doubt that's the situation since I'm not that interesting.
>

Could it have anything to do with your copious activities in:-
misc.phone.mobile.iphone; comp.sys.mac.*; etc. ?

>
> Given that, I will dig into the scripts which I hadn't thought was the
> issue until Wolfgang and Tim told me what they saw, and I confirmed that.
>
> Sigh.
>
> I apologize for what appears to be a false alarm on my part.
> I'm embarrassed if that's the case, and it's looking like it indeed is.
>
> Mea culpa.
> I am sorry.

--
^Ï^. – Sn!pe – My pet rock Gordon just is.

If you want peace, prepare for war.

On 2/23/2023 11:27 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Tom Furie wrote:
>
>> According to my logs, the only posts through mixmin which have those
>> unexpected components to the right of news.mixmin.net!.POSTED, are
>> yours.
>
>
> Why would my PATH: show up any differently than anyone else's does?

The obscurity of your injection methods, is what ends up
finding things like these path preloads.

How many other people, inject messages exactly the way you do ?

The evidence says, none this month.

Paul

On 23 Feb 2023, Andy Burnelli <nospam@nospam.net> posted some
news:tt9b4f$3b8na$1@paganini.bofh.team:

> lark wrote:
>
>>> Or quite simply it's not a peering-drama, but Mixmin started using
>>> Postfilter 9.3 by Paolo Amoroso (Aioe) _without_ configuring it
>>> (with the standard configuration Postfilter adds the path aioe.org
>>> to Path: and not your server, me to beginning I had the same
>>> problem, before I figured it out), and then here is the reason for
>>> the presence of "aioe" in the path: without aioe being "alive".
>>
>> You let the cat out of the bag.
>
> Since I had posted to news.mixmin.net:563 and read from
> news.dizum.net:119 is this how the nntp PATH: header got to where it
> happened to get to?
>
> Path:
> sewer!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!sewer!alphared!news.uzoreto.com!aioe.org
> !uC+u+wrvCiJRhswcuU7oWw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
>
> 1. Steve Crook's mixmin server injected this into the PATH: header...
> !alphared!news.uzoreto.com!aioe.org!uC+u+wrvCiJRhswcuU7oWw.user.46.1
> 65.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
>
> 2. Alex deJoode's dizum server injected this into the PATH: header...
> sewer!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!sewer
>

So explain this one.

Path:
news.neodome.net!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!Andy.Burnelli.is.clu
eless|paganini.bofh.team!not-for-mail

Hi Russ,

>> 200 sewer InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.6.3 ready (no posting)
>
> *Usually*, as with the example above from news.dizum.net, the first
> word in the 200 response is the same as the path entry for that
> server, but this does not have to be the case, and indeed I don't
> remember off-hand which configuration setting INN uses as the first
> word after 200.

Neither do I off-hand. Just checked: both innd and nnrpd advertise the
path identity after the 200/201 greeting response.
(In the next 2.8.0 major release, nnrpd will advertise instead the new
configurable server name which will also be used in Message-ID and
Injection-Info header fields. If not set, it defaults to innd's path
identity.)

--
Julien ÉLIE

« – On nage dans le lac, on escalade les montagnes…
– Ben quoi ? Nous ne sommes pas en vacances ! » (Astérix)

Hi Russ,

> one common
> reason to insert other people's Path identities in your Path header is
> because the Path is used by most servers to deduplicate feeds, so they
> won't send an article to a server whose path identity already appears in
> the Path. Therefore, a long-standing tactic for preventing your post from
> showing up at some server (for whatever reason) is to add its path
> identity to your Path header before posting, or during posting.
[...]
> maybe mixmin.net and aioe.org have a special peering relationship and
> mixmin.net preloads the aioe.org path entry to prevent the messages from
> propagating via normal channels because they'll be sent via some other
> channel that's configured to ignore Path entries. I have done things like
> that before to solve complex peering configuration issues.

I hope such insertions and preloads are done before adding the path
identity of the news server which actually handles the message.
That is to say, if my.news.server.net inserts preload.net in the Path
header field, and has verified the last entry of the received path is
the expected one, it would be this way:

Path: my.news.server.net!preload.net!!previous.path

By the way, is it wise to add a verified diag match here?
(my.news.server.net!!preload.net) I am unsure, as the article did not
pass through preload.net, and such a syntax would imply that
my.server.net verified it came from preload.net.
Yet, I also wonder if "preload.net!!previous.path" is OK as preload.net
didn't verify previous.path (it was actually verified by
my.news.server.net).

So, maybe there shouldn't be any diagnostic added when preloading at the
right side?

Path: my.news.server.net!preload.net!previous.path

The rationale for preload.net added first is that it would otherwise
mean that the next peer would know that the path identity of
my.news.server.net could be preload.net, so that it does not do
something like:

Path:
next.server.com!.MISMATCH.my.news.server.net!preload.net!my.news.server.net!previous.path

Coming back to how INN deals with additional path identities, we have 2
parameters (pathcluster and pathalias) which preload like:

Path: pathcluster!my.news.server!pathalias!previous.path

Would path diagnostic only be activated between pathcluster and
my.news.server, and never around pathalias?

Path: pathcluster!!my.news.server!pathalias!previous.path

It would imply that when pathalias is set, no verification of the path
identity of the feeding peer is done. (Or maybe a special pathaliasdiag
configuration option should be added to incoming.conf to enable it
anyway? - default would be disabled)

pathalias could indeed have 2 different uses: an internal name (and in
that case, path diag would be OK) or the name of another server (and in
that case, I am not sure path diag is OK to be added here)

--
Julien ÉLIE

« La fin du monde est un sujet sérieux, surtout pour ceux qui s'y
préparent. » (Filiu)

On 22 Feb 2023, Ed Rhodes <ejay1118@yahoo.con> posted some
news:5aedvh9eq4853uicis2hrcql97t6al6sup@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 16:38:51 +0000, Andy Burnelli <nospam@nospam.net>
> wrote:
>
>>1. I've been using Mixmin via telnet scripts for many years.
>>2. These telnet scripts were written by Marek Novotny years ago.
>>3. They make use of Stunnel for Mixmin encryption on port 563.
>>4. In seconds they would show up as posted (as witnessed using a
>> <http://groups.google.com/g/[insert-ng-here]> URI to check)
>>
>>Obviously, recently, the posts were severely delayed, where the delay
>>was roughly about 8 hours based on the timestamps sent versus
>>received.
>>
>>But some took longer, so it's not all messages getting the same delay.
>>More to the point of the question, _look_ at the path below.
>>
>>Huh?
>>Do you see "aioe" in that path?
>>How did it get there?
>
> You replied to a post that was originally posted through aioe.
>
>> Path:
>> sewer!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!sewer!alphared!news.uzoreto.com!aioe.org
>> !uC+u+wrvCiJRhswcuU7oWw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail From:
>> Andy Burnelli <nospam@nospam.net> Newsgroups:
>> misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android Subject: Re: T-Mobile is
>> Ending $5 Per Line Autopay Discount if You Pay with a Credit Card
>> <was: 16.4 Public Beta is Out. Finally enables 5G On Google Fi> Date:
>> Sun, 19 Feb 2023 13:30:29 +0000 Organization: Mixmin
>> Message-ID: <tst896$1ongb$1@news.mixmin.net>
>> References: <tsqtni$2ar0$1@dont-email.me>
>> <180220231127060887%nospam@nospam.invalid>
>> <tsqusa$vsp5$1@paganini.bofh.team> <tsr0sq$2pii$1@dont-email.me>
>> <tsrcrn$48ja$1@dont-email.me>

No, it wasn't. You think you can read headers but you flunked path class.

Paul wrote:

> The obscurity of your injection methods, is what ends up
> finding things like these path preloads.
>
> How many other people, inject messages exactly the way you do ?
>
> The evidence says, none this month.

Hi Paul,
Thanks. I know you well from the Windows ng and you're a purposefully
helpful guy, like I am, who has helped thousands over the years.

I found the problem which was a syntax error crept into the scripts.

I will send _this_ message via Paganini & Mixmin on Saturday February 26th,
at 11pm via my telnet scripts and at the same time I will ensure my system
time (which changes randomly to foil fingerprinters) will be Pacific Time.

I expect the Mixmin copy to arrive in a few days, sans aioe in the path.

Paul wrote:

> The obscurity of your injection methods, is what ends up
> finding things like these path preloads.
>
> How many other people, inject messages exactly the way you do ?
>
> The evidence says, none this month.

Hi Paul,
Thanks. I know you well from the Windows ng and you're a purposefully
helpful guy, like I am, who has helped thousands over the years.

I found the problem which was a syntax error crept into the scripts.

I will send _this_ message via Paganini & Mixmin on Saturday February 26th,
at 11pm via my telnet scripts and at the same time I will ensure my system
time (which changes randomly to foil fingerprinters) will be Pacific Time.

I expect the Mixmin copy to arrive in a few days, sans aioe in the path.

On 2023-02-22, Andy Burnelli <nospam@nospam.net> wrote:
> 1. I've been using Mixmin via telnet scripts for many years.
> 2. These telnet scripts were written by Marek Novotny years ago.
> 3. They make use of Stunnel for Mixmin encryption on port 563.
> 4. In seconds they would show up as posted (as witnessed using a
> <http://groups.google.com/g/[insert-ng-here]> URI to check)

> Obviously, recently, the posts were severely delayed, where the delay
> was roughly about 8 hours based on the timestamps sent versus received.

> But some took longer, so it's not all messages getting the same delay.
> More to the point of the question, _look_ at the path below.

> Huh?
> Do you see "aioe" in that path?
> How did it get there?
>
> Path: sewer!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!sewer!alphared!news.uzoreto.com!aioe.org!uC+u+wrvCiJRhswcuU7oWw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail

perhaps aioe still has a transit (peering) server running and only its
reader is down.

--
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

That which does not kill you makes you stranger.
-- Trevor Goodchild - AEon Flux

On 24/02/2023 04:26, mike wrote:
> But still, I didn't see any mention of nntp servers or aioe specifically.
> Nor any mention that he wrote the Postfilter 9.3 code.
>

https://github.com/Aioe

--
Ivo Gandolfo

On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 18:06:50 +0000, fos wrote:

>
> perhaps aioe still has a transit (peering) server running and only its
> reader is down.

negative

Andy Burnelli <nospam@nospam.net> writes:

> Paul wrote:
>
>> The obscurity of your injection methods, is what ends up
>> finding things like these path preloads.
>> How many other people, inject messages exactly the way you do ?
>> The evidence says, none this month.
>
> Hi Paul,
> Thanks. I know you well from the Windows ng and you're a purposefully
> helpful guy, like I am, who has helped thousands over the years.
>
> I found the problem which was a syntax error crept into the scripts.
>
> I will send _this_ message via Paganini & Mixmin on Saturday February
> 26th, at 11pm via my telnet scripts and at the same time I will ensure
> my system
> time (which changes randomly to foil fingerprinters) will be Pacific Time.
>
> I expect the Mixmin copy to arrive in a few days, sans aioe in the path.

This message have your User-Agent in Path.

Russ Allbery <eagle@eyrie.org> writes:

> Ed Rhodes <ejay1118@yahoo.con> writes:
>> Andy Burnelli <nospam@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>> Huh?
>>> Do you see "aioe" in that path?
>>> How did it get there?
>
>> You replied to a post that was originally posted through aioe.
>
> The Path header has nothing to do with replies and no part of the Path
> header is constructed based on the article to which you are replying.

Check Path header in this message: <ttf01c$1ckpr$1@news.mixmin.net>

Am 22.02.2023 um 21:08:23 Uhr schrieb Russ Allbery:

> Andy Burnelli <nospam@nospam.net> writes:
> > Somehow, the message went from mixmin to aioe and then to me even
> > as I was using dizum at the time to retrieve the messages.
>
> I don't believe this is the case. I think you posted the message to
> mixmin.net and then read it from a server called sewer (presumably
> this is "dizum"), and the aoie.org entry was added by mixmin.net.

Why should mixmin do that?

Am 28.02.2023 um 18:06:50 Uhr schrieb fos@sdf.org:

> perhaps aioe still has a transit (peering) server running and only
> its reader is down.

According to E-S, they use newsfeed.aioe.org which points to
46.165.242.75.

I get ICMP dest unreachable.