On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Sn!pe wrote:

> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Sn!pe wrote:
>>
>>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> [...]
>>>> The reason I am asking is that my newsreader works directly against the
>>>> server, and only caches certain operations. It is fairly fast, but, I
>>>> would ideally like to be able to sync all the news groups I read to
>>>> local disk (in Maildir, since my email client (alpine) supports that)
>>>> so that I can read and respond to them offline, and then send them once
>>>> I'm online.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if Maildir would be capable of "holding" the messages, or if
>>>> that would just be trying to hammer the square peg through the round
>>>> hole?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards, Daniel
>>>
>>> IMO it's more like reinventing the wheel.
>>> Why not just use an offline newsreader?
>>
>> Because I like my mail client and can use the same scripting
>> functionality, keys etc.
>
> A perfectly valid reason. I'm wedded to my 'reader too.

I somtimes wonder how problematic this is? If you sit me down in front of
anything besides vim I don't know what to do! ;)

On 2024-02-26, Michael Bäuerle <michael.baeuerle@stz-e.de> wrote:
> Colin Macleod wrote:
>> Michael Bäuerle wrote:
>> >
>> > Yes, since RFC 5536:
>> > <https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5536#section-2.3>
>> > |
>> > | 2.3. MIME Conformance
>> > |
>> > | User agents MUST meet the definition of MIME conformance in [RFC2049]
>> > | and MUST also support [RFC2231]. This level of MIME conformance
>> > | provides support for internationalization and multimedia in message
>> > | bodies [RFC2045], [RFC2046], and [RFC2231], and support for
>> > | internationalization of header fields [RFC2047] and [RFC2231]. [...]
>>
>> Interesting, so software support is actually *mandated*,
>
> And even Xnews can support it with "Mime-proxy":
><https://web.archive.org/web/20150923091912/http://www.lamaiziere.net/mp_pagen.html>
>
> Example article from german test group:
><news:urhrhi.ieo.1@barghahn-online.de>
>
>> of course using this also depends on group and server policies.
>
> The MIME features to support languages, that require non-ASCII encoding,
> should be usable nearly everywhere.
>
> Such policies should only target binary attachments in most cases.
> But yes, embedding an image is the topic of this thread, and this will
> not work on many servers.

Well, images can still be heavy to store.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2024-02-26, Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> Colin Macleod <cgm@erehwon.invalid> writes:
>>There's a big difference between encoding gigabyte videos into hundreds
>>of posts, and including a small picture or graphic *as part of a
>>message* just as one might do in an email. I think it would be very
>>helpful to allow the second more generally, with sensible limits on
>>attachment size.
>
> You can just post a Python program to /generate/ the binary.
> For example:
>
> with open( 'output202402261208430100ergahei_tmp_DML.bin', 'wb' )as sink:
> sink.write( b'\00\01\02' )
>
> . Now, one can run this Python program and will get the binary file
> "output202402261208430100ergahei_tmp_DML.bin" with the three bytes
> 00, 01, and 02.
>
> But be warned: If you already have a file named
> "output202402261208430100ergahei_tmp_DML.bin"
> on your hard drive, the above program may *overwrite*
> (delete) your existing file. So proceed with care!

Or you could just do f"output{time.time()}.bin" :)
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2024-02-26, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, D wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Colin Macleod wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> That's not a bad idea. I might try to put that in the usenet web client I'm
>>> working on, once I get the basic functionality sorted out.
>>>
>>> Of course you then have the problem of how to respond to illegal or
>>> objectionable images being posted, that needs some thought.
>>
>> Another question, since you seem to be one of the guys wise in the ways of
>> (computer) science!
>>
>> I wonder if you know of any software or script that syncs usenet messages
>> from the server to Maildir?
>>
>> The reason I am asking is that my newsreader works directly against the
>> server, and only caches certain operations. It is fairly fast, but, I would
>> ideally like to be able to sync all the news groups I read to local disk (in
>> Maildir, since my email client (alpine) supports that) so that I can read and
>> respond to them offline, and then send them once I'm online.
>>
>> I wonder if Maildir would be capable of "holding" the messages, or if that
>> would just be trying to hammer the square peg through the round hole?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>
> And I received an answer in another group. The answer is leafnode.org.
> This does (based on a glance at the documentation) exactly what I was
> looking for! =)

I use slrnpull personally, but yea there are quite a few. I believe INN
might be another good one.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2024-02-26, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Sn!pe wrote:
>
>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Sn!pe wrote:
>>>
>>>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> [...]
>>>>> The reason I am asking is that my newsreader works directly against the
>>>>> server, and only caches certain operations. It is fairly fast, but, I
>>>>> would ideally like to be able to sync all the news groups I read to
>>>>> local disk (in Maildir, since my email client (alpine) supports that)
>>>>> so that I can read and respond to them offline, and then send them once
>>>>> I'm online.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if Maildir would be capable of "holding" the messages, or if
>>>>> that would just be trying to hammer the square peg through the round
>>>>> hole?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards, Daniel
>>>>
>>>> IMO it's more like reinventing the wheel.
>>>> Why not just use an offline newsreader?
>>>
>>> Because I like my mail client and can use the same scripting
>>> functionality, keys etc.
>>
>> A perfectly valid reason. I'm wedded to my 'reader too.
>
> I somtimes wonder how problematic this is? If you sit me down in front of
> anything besides vim I don't know what to do! ;)

Not even notepad? :D
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2024-02-26, oldernow <oldernow@dev.null> wrote:
> On 2024-02-26, Colin Macleod <cgm@erehwon.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Of course you then have the problem of how to respond to
>> illegal or objectionable images being posted, that needs
>> some thought.
>
> Indeed does it seem that most human problems boil down to "how to
> deal with and/or work around assholes".
>
> To me, the workarounds seem procrastination from the real work
> of eradicating assholism - aka egoism - which for me begins in
> the mirror.

People being jerks ruins most software. There's a reason no-trust models
are so important..
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2024-02-26, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

> I somtimes wonder how problematic this is? If you sit me
> down in front of anything besides vim I don't know what
> to do! ;)

Hmmm. Now you got me wondering if borrowing the code implementing
the aspects of slrn I actually use, and reworking it into whatever
language(s) can be used to augment vim might lead to some glorious
one-stop typing ecstasy.... ;-)

--
oldernow
xyz001 at nym.hush.com

On 2024-02-26, oldernow <oldernow@dev.null> wrote:
> On 2024-02-26, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> I somtimes wonder how problematic this is? If you sit me
>> down in front of anything besides vim I don't know what
>> to do! ;)
>
> Hmmm. Now you got me wondering if borrowing the code implementing
> the aspects of slrn I actually use, and reworking it into whatever
> language(s) can be used to augment vim might lead to some glorious
> one-stop typing ecstasy.... ;-)

Sounds like quite the frankensteins monster.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, oldernow wrote:

> On 2024-02-26, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> I somtimes wonder how problematic this is? If you sit me
>> down in front of anything besides vim I don't know what
>> to do! ;)
>
> Hmmm. Now you got me wondering if borrowing the code implementing
> the aspects of slrn I actually use, and reworking it into whatever
> language(s) can be used to augment vim might lead to some glorious
> one-stop typing ecstasy.... ;-)

Sounds plausible! But what would the wife say? ;) In case you didn't
already see it, have a look at leafnode.org.

It's a C codebase for acting as a news proxy/local server, and I imagine
that perhaps it could be a strong component in such a glorious solution!

On 2024-02-26, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

>> Hmmm. Now you got me wondering if borrowing the code
>> implementing the aspects of slrn I actually use, and
>> reworking it into whatever language(s) can be used to
>> augment vim might lead to some glorious one-stop typing
>> ecstasy.... ;-)
>
> Sounds plausible! But what would the wife say? ;)

I've become pretty adept at being the tree that nearby others can't
hear falling in what they consider to be their woods. ;-)

> In case you didn't already see it, have a look at leafnode.org.

Yeah, investigated it after your first mention. But I've been happy
with pointing slrn to news.eternal-september.org.

> It's a C codebase for acting as a news proxy/local server,
> and I imagine that perhaps it could be a strong component
> in such a glorious solution!

That's too heavy in terms of what I want happening (more like *not*
happening) on my Chromebook. But I appreciate your having brought it
to my attention!

--
oldernow
xyz001 at nym.hush.com

["Followup-To:" header set to news.software.readers.]
On 2024-02-26, oldernow <oldernow@dev.null> wrote:
> On 2024-02-26, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>>> Hmmm. Now you got me wondering if borrowing the code
>>> implementing the aspects of slrn I actually use, and
>>> reworking it into whatever language(s) can be used to
>>> augment vim might lead to some glorious one-stop typing
>>> ecstasy.... ;-)
>>
>> Sounds plausible! But what would the wife say? ;)
>
> I've become pretty adept at being the tree that nearby others can't
> hear falling in what they consider to be their woods. ;-)
>
>> In case you didn't already see it, have a look at leafnode.org.
>
> Yeah, investigated it after your first mention. But I've been happy
> with pointing slrn to news.eternal-september.org.
>
>> It's a C codebase for acting as a news proxy/local server,
>> and I imagine that perhaps it could be a strong component
>> in such a glorious solution!
>
> That's too heavy in terms of what I want happening (more like *not*
> happening) on my Chromebook. But I appreciate your having brought it
> to my attention!

Well, slrnpull is lighter.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2/26/24 03:51, Colin Macleod wrote:
> There's a big difference between encoding gigabyte videos into
> hundreds of posts, and including a small picture or graphic *as part
> of a message* just as one might do in an email.

There is and there isn't at the same time.

What differentiates someone from sending thousands of messages with 32
kB binary to make up the image from someone else that sends a 32 kB
graphic to discuss?

Specifically what differentiates the two discrete messages as seen by
the spam filter on the news server?

In short, nothing differentiates the two. Playing with the numbers is
nothing but a whack-a-mole game.

Either you allow binary attachments or you don't.

Thus far, the general consensus of the text only portion of Usenet has
decided to both not allow binary attachments and to actively try to
filter them.

N.B. there are other parts of Usenet that do allow binaries. It's just
that text only servers have chosen to not support -> filter them.

> I think it would be very helpful to allow the second more generally,
> with sensible limits on attachment size.

I agree in concept.

But I also agree in the text only portion of Usenet more. Hence I run
my servers as text only.

N.B. My servers means my choice.

--
Grant. . . .

On 2/25/24 23:35, candycanearter07 wrote:
> I thought mime was the default for USENET tho..

I would not bet on it.

I agree that MIME headers are quite prolific in nature. But I suspect
that there still news readers that don't support MIME in active day to
day use.

After all, one of MIME's claims to fame is the ability to get out of the
way for pure text newsgroups and messages. As such, pure text displays
perfectly fine without any support for MIME.

I think that MIME support, at least rudimentary support, should be
included. But I wouldn't bet on it.

--
Grant. . . .

On 2024-02-26, candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:

>> That's too heavy in terms of what I want happening (more
>> like *not* happening) on my Chromebook. But I appreciate
>> your having brought it to my attention!
>
> Well, slrnpull is lighter.

Hadn't heard of it. Thanks!

--
oldernow
xyz001 at nym.hush.com

On 2024-02-26, candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:
> ["Followup-To:" header set to news.software.readers.]

> Well, slrnpull is lighter.

Why did my previous reply to this not wind up in
alt.culture.usenet? I'm imagining it's something to do with:

"Followup-To:" header set to news.software.readers.

which led to seeing this when I followed up:

Followup to news.software.readers as poster prefers? [Y]es, No

to which I'd answered "Y" to be what I thought was polite.

I'm just somewhat regretting having done that, because apparently
that led to my followup not going to where I thought/hoped it
would go.

Could someone explain what happened? I'm not too sophisticated a
USENET patron.

--
oldernow
xyz001 at nym.hush.com

Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote in news:urj809$ssv$1
@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net:

> On 2/26/24 03:51, Colin Macleod wrote:
>> There's a big difference between encoding gigabyte videos into
>> hundreds of posts, and including a small picture or graphic *as part
>> of a message* just as one might do in an email.
>
> There is and there isn't at the same time.
>
> What differentiates someone from sending thousands of messages with 32
> kB binary to make up the image from someone else that sends a 32 kB
> graphic to discuss?
>
Unfortunately, I think you do have a point there.

So I think the next-best thing is for the post to include the URL of an
image hosted elsewhere, and for the reader to have the option to load
images or not, as most email clients do. Note that this cannot be misused
to track individual readers as happens with email, because all readers get
the same image link.

--
Colin Macleod.

On 2024-02-27, oldernow <oldernow@dev.null> wrote:
> On 2024-02-26, candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:
>
>>> That's too heavy in terms of what I want happening (more
>>> like *not* happening) on my Chromebook. But I appreciate
>>> your having brought it to my attention!
>>
>> Well, slrnpull is lighter.
>
> Hadn't heard of it. Thanks!

You're welcome! I just recently set it up myself.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 26/02/24 10:51, Colin Macleod wrote:
> Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote in
> news:urgusr$eq4$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net:
>
>> On 2/25/24 15:14, HenHanna wrote:
>>> i just think that...   if Usenet allowed a small image to be
>>>           embedded in a post, its appeal would be so much
>>> Greater!
>>
>> Usenet is perfectly capable of conveying images, and other binary
>> content.
>>
>> Many Usenet server administrators have made the choice to not carry
>> binary content on their servers.
>>
>> If you want binary content, go use a different server. Binary content
>> is unwelcome on many servers.
>>
>>
>>
>
> There's a big difference between encoding gigabyte videos into hundreds
> of posts, and including a small picture or graphic *as part of a
> message* just as one might do in an email. I think it would be very
> helpful to allow the second more generally, with sensible limits on
> attachment size.
>

The latter would, of course, immediately be abused to store sections of
gigabyte videos.

On 26/02/24 16:35, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 2024-02-26, oldernow <oldernow@dev.null> wrote:
>> On 2024-02-26, Colin Macleod <cgm@erehwon.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Of course you then have the problem of how to respond to
>>> illegal or objectionable images being posted, that needs
>>> some thought.
>>
>> Indeed does it seem that most human problems boil down to "how to
>> deal with and/or work around assholes".
>>
>> To me, the workarounds seem procrastination from the real work
>> of eradicating assholism - aka egoism - which for me begins in
>> the mirror.
>
> People being jerks ruins most software. There's a reason no-trust models
> are so important..

Nobody can even define what a jerk is. There is no clear boundary, even
though some things are obviously on the wrong side of it (randomly
posting goatse... usually). A jerk usually means someone I don't like,
and of course, that definition refers specifically to me, and not to you
or anyone else.

The most common system we have that kinda sorta works is that of the
internet, where you need to not piss off a server administrator, but all
server administrators are pissed off in different ways and you get to
choose which one you need to not piss off.

Colin Macleod wrote:

> Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote in
> news:urgusr$eq4$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net:

>> On 2/25/24 15:14, HenHanna wrote:
>>> i just think that...   if Usenet allowed a small image to be
>>>           embedded in a post, its appeal would be so much Greater!

>>
>> Usenet is perfectly capable of conveying images, and other binary
>> content.
>>
>> Many Usenet server administrators have made the choice to not carry
>> binary content on their servers.
>>
>> If you want binary content, go use a different server. Binary content
>> is unwelcome on many servers.
>>
>>
>>

> There's a big difference between encoding gigabyte videos into hundreds
> of posts, and including a small picture or graphic *as part of a
> message* just as one might do in an email. I think it would be very
> helpful to allow the second more generally, with sensible limits on
> attachment size.

i agree!!!