I was urged to move over from 20.04 to 20.2 because of the enthusiastic review in Linux Format, not to ignore the cover disk on the magazine.

There is nothing wrong with 20.2 except what I tried to run on it.
Firt VirtualBox and then virtual Windows XP and Windows 10.

[For the trolls].
Sadly I am cursed to having to use these for the following reasons:

1) I run a 16-bit character based time accounting and contact program needed for my business (such as it is). It was written in a mixture of clipper and assembly.
I cannot be bothered to rewrite it to run under Linux because it relied on a Windows library to permit proportionally-spaced text reports. Windows 10 does not support 16-bit programs.

2) I have a Fujitsu fl-6130 cut sheet feeder. Fujitsu never produced updates.
xsane cannot handle it well.

3) My professional software only runs on Windows 7 and above.

I kept the home directory intact initially and formatted all but the /home partition. I bit of jiggery pockery followed to restore some of the 'dot' directories, set up cups and samba and install mythtv.

I first installed the latest version of VirtualBox but things did not work properly so I dropped back to 6.1.12. This allowed my Win 10 virtual machine to run properly and the critial applications upon it.

XP was another matter. When it started up it complained perpetually about a spool file that couldn't be accessed. I could not shift the problem.

Finally MythTV. I have been running myth since my early days with Linux. Sometime after 2003. The truth is though that as a casual user I have never mastered MySQL.
Every two installations I hit problems and this was one of those times.

I wasted two stressful days trying to sort this but finally gave up. Once I fully retire I might be able to ditch Windows altogether except I am very fond of MS Word 2003. :(

Of course it will all start again, probably in a couple of years time.

Rant over.

--
Mint 20.04, kernel 5.4.0-42-generic, Cinnamon 4.6.7
running on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition processor with 8GB of DRAM.

pinnerite wrote:
> I was urged to move over from 20.04 to 20.2 because of the
> enthusiastic review in Linux Format, not to ignore the cover disk on
> the magazine.
>
> There is nothing wrong with 20.2 except what I tried to run on it.
> Firt VirtualBox and then virtual Windows XP and Windows 10.
>
I use various old hardware, some of fairly low resources. I *never* do
anything w/ VM. I prefer to run my linux most of the time as live and
live + persistence. I have one W10 laptop that I /never/ run W10 on, as
the hardware is better suited for a live linux + persistence. My choice
for that LT is MX Linux because it handles the LT's wifi more gracefully
than other distro/s.

I also have an XP desktop w/ low resources on which I occsly boot a live
linux to explore something, but usually it serves very limited duty as
XP. Never a VM host.

I also have a W7 desktop that might boot into W7 or into a multiboot
linux Ventoy USB stick. Never VM.

> [For the trolls]. Sadly I am cursed to having to use these for the
> following reasons:
>
I have no problem w/ anyone choosing to run a Win OS for whatever
practicality.

> 1) I run a 16-bit character based time accounting and contact program
> needed for my business (such as it is). It was written in a mixture
> of clipper and assembly. I cannot be bothered to rewrite it to run
> under Linux because it relied on a Windows library to permit
> proportionally-spaced text reports. Windows 10 does not support
> 16-bit programs.
>
> 2) I have a Fujitsu fl-6130 cut sheet feeder. Fujitsu never produced
> updates. xsane cannot handle it well.
>
> 3) My professional software only runs on Windows 7 and above.
>
> I kept the home directory intact initially and formatted all but the
> /home partition. I bit of jiggery pockery followed to restore some of
> the 'dot' directories, set up cups and samba and install mythtv.
>
> I first installed the latest version of VirtualBox but things did not
> work properly so I dropped back to 6.1.12. This allowed my Win 10
> virtual machine to run properly and the critial applications upon
> it.
>
> XP was another matter. When it started up it complained perpetually
> about a spool file that couldn't be accessed. I could not shift the
> problem.
>
> Finally MythTV. I have been running myth since my early days with
> Linux. Sometime after 2003. The truth is though that as a casual user
> I have never mastered MySQL. Every two installations I hit problems
> and this was one of those times.
>
> I wasted two stressful days trying to sort this but finally gave up.
> Once I fully retire I might be able to ditch Windows altogether
> except I am very fond of MS Word 2003. :(
>
I sometimes use a MS Works v.8 of 2004 because it is on the XP machine
which is USB connected to a printer.

Mint Cinnamon is not a 'low resource' distro. It needs decent graphics
resources and more ram than other similar generation DEs; eg it needs
significantly more ram live to the desktop than current KDE Neon also
based on Ub 20.04.

If you are interested in Mint Cinn 20.2 I would write it to USB and boot
it live, not as a VM guest.

--
Mike Easter

On 9/22/21 3:45 PM, pinnerite wrote:
> I was urged to move over from 20.04 to 20.2 because of the enthusiastic review in Linux Format, not to ignore the cover disk on the magazine.
>
> There is nothing wrong with 20.2 except what I tried to run on it.
> Firt VirtualBox and then virtual Windows XP and Windows 10.
>
> [For the trolls].
> Sadly I am cursed to having to use these for the following reasons:
>
> 1) I run a 16-bit character based time accounting and contact program needed for my business (such as it is). It was written in a mixture of clipper and assembly.
> I cannot be bothered to rewrite it to run under Linux because it relied on a Windows library to permit proportionally-spaced text reports. Windows 10 does not support 16-bit programs.
>
> 2) I have a Fujitsu fl-6130 cut sheet feeder. Fujitsu never produced updates.
> xsane cannot handle it well.
>
> 3) My professional software only runs on Windows 7 and above.
>
> I kept the home directory intact initially and formatted all but the /home partition. I bit of jiggery pockery followed to restore some of the 'dot' directories, set up cups and samba and install mythtv.
>
> I first installed the latest version of VirtualBox but things did not work properly so I dropped back to 6.1.12. This allowed my Win 10 virtual machine to run properly and the critial applications upon it.
>
> XP was another matter. When it started up it complained perpetually about a spool file that couldn't be accessed. I could not shift the problem.
>
> Finally MythTV. I have been running myth since my early days with Linux. Sometime after 2003. The truth is though that as a casual user I have never mastered MySQL.
> Every two installations I hit problems and this was one of those times.
>
> I wasted two stressful days trying to sort this but finally gave up. Once I fully retire I might be able to ditch Windows altogether except I am very fond of MS Word 2003. :(
>
> Of course it will all start again, probably in a couple of years time.
>
> Rant over.
>
>
By now it may have occurred to you that a Linux coder could have written
a new program that would solve your problem with this business matter,
and thus freeing you to dump all that m$ futility. Best of Luck in your
retirement.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:08:39 -0700
Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote:

> pinnerite wrote:
> > I was urged to move over from 20.04 to 20.2 because of the
> > enthusiastic review in Linux Format, not to ignore the cover disk on
> > the magazine.
> >
> > There is nothing wrong with 20.2 except what I tried to run on it.
> > Firt VirtualBox and then virtual Windows XP and Windows 10.
> >
> I use various old hardware, some of fairly low resources. I *never* do
> anything w/ VM. I prefer to run my linux most of the time as live and
> live + persistence. I have one W10 laptop that I /never/ run W10 on, as
> the hardware is better suited for a live linux + persistence. My choice
> for that LT is MX Linux because it handles the LT's wifi more gracefully
> than other distro/s.
>
> I also have an XP desktop w/ low resources on which I occsly boot a live
> linux to explore something, but usually it serves very limited duty as
> XP. Never a VM host.
>
> I also have a W7 desktop that might boot into W7 or into a multiboot
> linux Ventoy USB stick. Never VM.
>
> > [For the trolls]. Sadly I am cursed to having to use these for the
> > following reasons:
> >
> I have no problem w/ anyone choosing to run a Win OS for whatever
> practicality.
>
> > 1) I run a 16-bit character based time accounting and contact program
> > needed for my business (such as it is). It was written in a mixture
> > of clipper and assembly. I cannot be bothered to rewrite it to run
> > under Linux because it relied on a Windows library to permit
> > proportionally-spaced text reports. Windows 10 does not support
> > 16-bit programs.
> >
> > 2) I have a Fujitsu fl-6130 cut sheet feeder. Fujitsu never produced
> > updates. xsane cannot handle it well.
> >
> > 3) My professional software only runs on Windows 7 and above.
> >
> > I kept the home directory intact initially and formatted all but the
> > /home partition. I bit of jiggery pockery followed to restore some of
> > the 'dot' directories, set up cups and samba and install mythtv.
> >
> > I first installed the latest version of VirtualBox but things did not
> > work properly so I dropped back to 6.1.12. This allowed my Win 10
> > virtual machine to run properly and the critial applications upon
> > it.
> >
> > XP was another matter. When it started up it complained perpetually
> > about a spool file that couldn't be accessed. I could not shift the
> > problem.
> >
> > Finally MythTV. I have been running myth since my early days with
> > Linux. Sometime after 2003. The truth is though that as a casual user
> > I have never mastered MySQL. Every two installations I hit problems
> > and this was one of those times.
> >
> > I wasted two stressful days trying to sort this but finally gave up.
> > Once I fully retire I might be able to ditch Windows altogether
> > except I am very fond of MS Word 2003. :(
> >
> I sometimes use a MS Works v.8 of 2004 because it is on the XP machine
> which is USB connected to a printer.
>
> Mint Cinnamon is not a 'low resource' distro. It needs decent graphics
> resources and more ram than other similar generation DEs; eg it needs
> significantly more ram live to the desktop than current KDE Neon also
> based on Ub 20.04.
>
> If you are interested in Mint Cinn 20.2 I would write it to USB and boot
> it live, not as a VM guest.
>
> --
> Mike Easter

I was booting 20.2 live. It was the Windows that were VMs. The problem may be caused by some kernel change. i have had that before. For now I will wait until I have some fiddling time.

All the best. Alan

--
Mint 20.04, kernel 5.4.0-42-generic, Cinnamon 4.6.7
running on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition processor with 8GB of DRAM.

pinnerite wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>
>> If you are interested in Mint Cinn 20.2 I would write it to USB and boot
>> it live, not as a VM guest.
>>
> I was booting 20.2 live. It was the Windows that were VMs. The problem may be caused by some kernel change. i have had that before. For now I will wait until I have some fiddling time.
>
Oh, I see. The Wins I have around here, XP, 7, & 10 are running on the
metal, not VM. I once had a Vista LT but the hardware died, black
screen. Well, if you go back to dead hardware, there have also been 95
& 98. In the W95 days I wasn't quite doing any linux, just reading
about it. Prior to W95, it was Atari ST & TT. That transition from
graphical Atari to Wintel was also associated w/ a transition from
dialup & bulletin boards to early broadband cable connectivity.

--
Mike Easter

On 22/09/2021 20:45, pinnerite wrote:
> I wasted two stressful days trying to sort this but finally gave up. Once I fully retire I might be able to ditch Windows altogether except I am very fond of MS Word 2003.

You probably will also be fond of Libre Office Writer
You really don't need MS Word

BTW Libre Office is also freely available for MS Windows ....suggest
you try it .

Frank in County Wicklow -Ireland

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 16:25:02 +0100
wicklowham <wicklowham.nospam@rfburns.eu> wrote:

> On 22/09/2021 20:45, pinnerite wrote:
> > I wasted two stressful days trying to sort this but finally gave up. Once I fully retire I might be able to ditch Windows altogether except I am very fond of MS Word 2003.
>
> You probably will also be fond of Libre Office Writer
> You really don't need MS Word
>
> BTW Libre Office is also freely available for MS Windows ....suggest
> you try it .
>
> Frank in County Wicklow -Ireland

I do use Libre Office Writer but not for most things. I find it tedious and busy but MS Word has much better "tables". They can be manipulated to vary each cells wifth individually. Great for matching professionally printed letterheads.

However LOW can read docx files and save them as doc files, enabling manipulation in Word. I have sdpent next to nothing on MS products for 14 years. I don't like bloat and thus much happier with early versions of MS Office.

I have been using word processors since Wordstar on CP/M. Believe me I know what I like. I am not a brand fanatic.

In any event I could run MS Word and Excel under wine but they are not the main issue.

Alan in Harrow.

--
Mint 20.04, kernel 5.4.0-42-generic, Cinnamon 4.6.7
running on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition processor with 8GB of DRAM.

On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:00:16 -0700
Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote:

> pinnerite wrote:
> > Mike Easter wrote:
> >
> >> If you are interested in Mint Cinn 20.2 I would write it to USB and boot
> >> it live, not as a VM guest.
> >>
> > I was booting 20.2 live. It was the Windows that were VMs. The problem may be caused by some kernel change. i have had that before. For now I will wait until I have some fiddling time.
> >
> Oh, I see. The Wins I have around here, XP, 7, & 10 are running on the
> metal, not VM. I once had a Vista LT but the hardware died, black
> screen. Well, if you go back to dead hardware, there have also been 95
> & 98. In the W95 days I wasn't quite doing any linux, just reading
> about it. Prior to W95, it was Atari ST & TT. That transition from
> graphical Atari to Wintel was also associated w/ a transition from
> dialup & bulletin boards to early broadband cable connectivity.
>
> --
> Mike Easter

My move to Linux arose by chance. Windows 98 was crashing between 10 and 20 times per day on all of our machines. About six of us at the time. We had not matured to a server based office. We were running peer to peer.

One day a virus hit my machine. Yes I had anti-virus protection. When I called the manufacturer they were dusmissive. Mercifully I had not migrated to the other machines.

I called a friend, an IT professional. We backed off my data and rebuilt the ioperating system and restored the data. It was fine but I was incensed. "Why don't you try Linux" he said. You can then create a Linux server which will provide better protection.

I had never heard of Linux. I went to the newsagent beneath my office and ordered one of every magazine that had the word "Linux" in the title. A week later I had four. One was Linux Format and had a Red Hat cover disk on it. I sacrificed my domestic Windows 98 machine and tried it. I think kernel 2.4 had just about given way to 2.4 either then or a little later. Next came Mandrake 7.2. I managed to get on with that and eventually got all my hardware to work. The hardest part was an internal PCI ADSL modem. Only one person in the world had developed a driver for it and had yet to gravitate it to kernel 2.6!

But he did within a few weeks.

I then discovered Win4Lin. A hypervisor dedicated to running Windows as a virtual machine. This freed me from being dependent on Windows. With a few weeks I had all my colleagues machines running on virtual Windows over Linux.

That continued in various forms until 2011 when I closed the office and semi-retired.

Within Mandrake/Mandrive/Mageia I cosmetised the desktops to look the same as Windows. I have set of icons that I carry around to every install that I do. In mine however the desktop icons are always on the right. (I am right-handed).

With the exception of my former partner who was never really happy leaving quill pen mode, all the staff gradually acclimatised themselves to using Linux applications alongside Windows ones. Training costs were thereby cut to the minimum.

Nobody in the firm ever emailed or browsed the web using Windows. I felt it was safer. Truthfully I had no evidence to back this up. Of course program updates or installations had to be done on-line but that was all.

As you can see, I moved away from Mageia when they adopted Plasma 5. It caused so much time wasting that in a fit of picque (I get those), I tried Mint and found it simpler to handle. I would have liked Cinnamon to allow the desktop icons to be ranged to the right at a keystroke but that is just being picky! :)

Now why on earth did I write all that?

Who would be interested?

--
Mint 20.04, kernel 5.4.0-42-generic, Cinnamon 4.6.7
running on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition processor with 8GB of DRAM.

I simply use whichever OS does the best job for the intended purpose.

That said: I like to experiment and just for laughs, installed 32bit Win10 on an old dual core machine which will not support more than 4 gigs of RAM.

Much to my surprise...even without an ssd, it performs reasonably well. It's a simple task to enable 16 bit subsystem...and it's a bit eerie seeing 16 bit apps running on it.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 20:45:41 +0100
pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com> wrote:

> I was urged to move over from 20.04 to 20.2 because of the enthusiastic review in Linux Format, not to ignore the cover disk on the magazine.
>
......
/*
> --
> Mint 20.04, kernel 5.4.0-42-generic, Cinnamon 4.6.7
> running on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition processor with 8GB of DRAM.
*/

I am contemplating having another go starting by overwriting the /home partition with the latest one from my working drive.

However, I am aware that some of the hidden files shoud be preserved because they are specific to the version. But which ones? ...

--
Mint 20.04, kernel 5.4.0-42-generic, Cinnamon 4.6.7
running on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition processor with 8GB of DRAM.