Den 2022-03-02 kl. 19:10, skrev Doug Phillips:

> Since you have Windows involved anyway...

I do not (for this specific need). This is only on OpenVMS.
I do not understand where you have got that from...

Den 2022-03-02 kl. 19:37, skrev Simon Clubley:
> On 2022-03-02, chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>
>> The reader is an application, either the free acrobat from Adobe, or in
>> use here, the Foxit reader, also free. They do paid for apps that
>> will edit exiting pdf files. Found that very useful where a pdf based
>> form is to be filled in. Similar utils exist for unix, linux etc. The
>> formatting for the printer is done within the app, and just talks to
>> the printer via the os printer driver...
>>
>
> Everyone here knows about those utilities Chris, but what you are
> missing is that you are assuming some manual process where people
> manually open every PDF on a PC before manually printing it.
>
> That is simply not how it works in many corporate workflows.
>
> In many business cases, complex documents are created automatically by
> a program (invoicing/statements, etc) and then printed automatically as
> part of a batch run without any human ever been involved in the process.
>
> I've actually generated barcodes in the distant past on VMS as part
> of generating batches of documents automatically. IIRC, I did it by
> generating PCL to draw the boxes on the documents and the documents
> were sent to laser printers controlled by DCPS.
>
> No third party utilities were involved. Code 39 (for example) is very
> well documented:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_39
>
> There are other encoding standards which are also well documented.
> All you need now is to dust off your PCL programming skills. :-)
>
> (Or these days, just use a printer with a barcode font. :-))
>
> Simon.
>

Sure, I have worked with barcodes (and scanners, Zebra printers and
whatever belongs to that) since the 80's. No problem there...

We had JetForm on VMS (VAX) printing on LaserJet IV printers.
Worked very well. JetForm is not avilable today...

In this case I do not expect to have a printer that has barcodes fonts.

I do have the Python routine to generate the PDF page including
the required barcode (Code128, in this case) ready.

There are a few quite cheap Xerox (the prefered printer brand
at this site) that has PDF support built in.

Now just aiting for the customer to lok at their available printers...

On 03/02/22 17:26, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 3/2/22 11:05, chris wrote:
>> On 03/02/22 15:53, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>> On 3/2/22 10:08, chris wrote:
>>>> On 03/01/22 23:05, gah4 wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:16:42 AM UTC-8, Jan-Erik Söderholm
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF
>>>>>> files.
>>>>>> Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I
>>>>>> look for
>>>>>> a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just let the
>>>>>> PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
>>>>>> simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?
>>>>>
>>>>> As well as I know it, PDF is a subset of PS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Enough of a subset that there is an automated process to convert
>>>>> PDF into PS, and the program pdftops to do it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there printers that support PDF, but not PS?
>>>>
>>>> One thing that might solve the problem long term would be to port
>>>> cups. Pretty foolproof and works out of the box on all the systems
>>>> and os's tried here. Just about every printer model supported as well.
>>>>
>>>> You could argue that it's not the os's task to process pdf or any
>>>> other format, other than transparently passing the data. Pdf should be
>>>> handled by the pdf reader itself, as with most systems these days...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Who would argue that? Most of us remember when printers were just
>>> dumb boxes. Used to have to put a loop of punched paper tape in just
>>> so it could find the beginning of the page!
>>>
>>> bill
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Different world now, isn't it ?. Similar problems with terminals on
>> unix, where the termcap file could be megabytes of special control
>> character sequences. As I said, the os cups system is very flexible
>> and keeps all the printer specific stuff in one place where it
>> belongs, but like the termcap example, is quite bulky because of the
>> myriad of printer types. No easy way around that I guess.
>> Can also be managed with a browser for setups and monitoring as well.
>>
>> Might be worth looking at for vms.
>>
>
> Or buying a $35 Raspberry Pi 2 and building a simple printer engine
> sit between VMS and whatever printer you have.
>
> bill
>
>

Absolutely, a print server in a box...

Chris

Den 2022-03-02 kl. 20:05, skrev chris:
> On 03/02/22 17:26, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> On 3/2/22 11:05, chris wrote:
>>> On 03/02/22 15:53, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>> On 3/2/22 10:08, chris wrote:
>>>>> On 03/01/22 23:05, gah4 wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:16:42 AM UTC-8, Jan-Erik Söderholm
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF
>>>>>>> files.
>>>>>>> Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I
>>>>>>> look for
>>>>>>> a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just let the
>>>>>>> PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
>>>>>>> simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As well as I know it, PDF is a subset of PS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Enough of a subset that there is an automated process to convert
>>>>>> PDF into PS, and the program pdftops to do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are there printers that support PDF, but not PS?
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing that might solve the problem long term would be to port
>>>>> cups. Pretty foolproof and works out of the box on all the systems
>>>>> and os's tried here. Just about every printer model supported as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could argue that it's not the os's task to process pdf or any
>>>>> other format, other than transparently passing the data. Pdf should be
>>>>> handled by the pdf reader itself, as with most systems these days...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Who would argue that? Most of us remember when printers were just
>>>> dumb boxes. Used to have to put a loop of punched paper tape in just
>>>> so it could find the beginning of the page!
>>>>
>>>> bill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Different world now, isn't it ?. Similar problems with terminals on
>>> unix, where the termcap file could be megabytes of special control
>>> character sequences. As I said, the os cups system is very flexible
>>> and keeps all the printer specific stuff in one place where it
>>> belongs, but like the termcap example, is quite bulky because of the
>>> myriad  of printer types. No easy way around that I guess.
>>> Can also be managed with a browser for setups and monitoring as well.
>>>
>>> Might be worth looking at for vms.
>>>
>>
>> Or buying a $35 Raspberry Pi 2 and building a simple printer engine
>> sit between VMS and whatever printer you have.
>>
>> bill
>>
>>
>
> Absolutely, a print server in a box...
>
> Chris
>
>

Absolutely not. This is a 24/7 factory. We cannot put in some Raspies
in a critcal environment. Better do it in the VMS environment so that
we have full remote access for support whatever happens.

On 03/02/22 17:52, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 16:40, skrev chris:
>> On 03/02/22 15:32, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 16:27, skrev chris:
>>>> On 03/02/22 15:21, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 16:08, skrev chris:
>>>>>> On 03/01/22 23:05, gah4 wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:16:42 AM UTC-8, Jan-Erik Söderholm
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF
>>>>>>>> files.
>>>>>>>> Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I
>>>>>>>> look for
>>>>>>>> a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just
>>>>>>>> let the
>>>>>>>> PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
>>>>>>>> simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As well as I know it, PDF is a subset of PS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Enough of a subset that there is an automated process to convert
>>>>>>> PDF into PS, and the program pdftops to do it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are there printers that support PDF, but not PS?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One thing that might solve the problem long term would be to port
>>>>>> cups. Pretty foolproof and works out of the box on all the systems
>>>>>> and os's tried here. Just about every printer model supported as
>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You could argue that it's not the os's task to process pdf or any
>>>>>> other format, other than transparently passing the data. Pdf
>>>>>> should be
>>>>>> handled by the pdf reader itself, as with most systems these days...
>>>>>
>>>>> What "PDF reader"? Are you talking about the/a printer?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The reader is an application, either the free acrobat from Adobe, or in
>>>> use here, the Foxit reader, also free. They do paid for apps that
>>>> will edit exiting pdf files. Found that very useful where a pdf based
>>>> form is to be filled in. Similar utils exist for unix, linux etc. The
>>>> formatting for the printer is done within the app, and just talks to
>>>> the printer via the os printer driver...
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>
>>> What has that to do with getting a PDF file out on a printer from a
>>> batch routine on an OpenVMS system?
>> >
>>
>> I just assume that vms would have the sort of common sense utilities
>> that most of the mainstream world has taken for granted for decades
>> now, but perhaps i'm wrong.
>
> You do not know what you are talking about.

I may have a bit more of a clue than someone who has done little else
than vms for decades, but try no to judge others.

>
>>
>>>
>>> Why do you think that I do not know what an *normal* PDF reader is?
>>>
>>
>> Well, you did ask the question as to what I meant,
>
> No, I asked why you bring "PDF readers" to the discussion at all.
>
> A "PDF reader" implies that there is a user available. There is not.
> This is a background routine run as a batch job. If there was a user
> that could run a PDF reader, I would never had asked.
>

Ok, but could you not use ghostscrpt or other to format the pdf for you
?. I understand there is a port for vms. You might have to write a bit
of dcl to encapsulate that, but should be easy for you.

This sort of discussion is a stark reminder of why I had to drop vms at
around the 5.4 level. Just such hard work to do anything and total
lack of standard facilities and networking. Sad really, but the way of
os natural selection. I'm sure vms must be mush better these days
though. Loved the hardware and tech prowess, but no time for the
proprietary greed and protectionism...

Chris

>
>
>

On 3/2/2022 12:56 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 19:10, skrev Doug Phillips:
>
>> Since you have Windows involved anyway...
>
> I do not (for this specific need). This is only on OpenVMS.
> I do not understand where you have got that from...
>
>

Sorry. Since you're creating PDFs then my guess was you have some
non-VMS systems but maybe not Windows. Just saying that there are
Windows (and maybe Apple and maybe *nix) apps that do file conversion,
but that's not my world.

If you need to print a form with barcodes, then the easiest way is to
use the printer's barcode fonts. I haven't met a Xerox business-class
laser printer in the past 20+ years that didn't have the ability to use
barcode fonts either natively or as an add-on.

I think my first question was relevant:
"Is your primary goal to print PDF's or to print barcodes?"

On 03/02/22 19:08, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 20:05, skrev chris:
>> On 03/02/22 17:26, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>> On 3/2/22 11:05, chris wrote:
>>>> On 03/02/22 15:53, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>>> On 3/2/22 10:08, chris wrote:
>>>>>> On 03/01/22 23:05, gah4 wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:16:42 AM UTC-8, Jan-Erik Söderholm
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF
>>>>>>>> files.
>>>>>>>> Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I
>>>>>>>> look for
>>>>>>>> a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just
>>>>>>>> let the
>>>>>>>> PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
>>>>>>>> simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As well as I know it, PDF is a subset of PS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Enough of a subset that there is an automated process to convert
>>>>>>> PDF into PS, and the program pdftops to do it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are there printers that support PDF, but not PS?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One thing that might solve the problem long term would be to port
>>>>>> cups. Pretty foolproof and works out of the box on all the systems
>>>>>> and os's tried here. Just about every printer model supported as
>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You could argue that it's not the os's task to process pdf or any
>>>>>> other format, other than transparently passing the data. Pdf
>>>>>> should be
>>>>>> handled by the pdf reader itself, as with most systems these days...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Who would argue that? Most of us remember when printers were just
>>>>> dumb boxes. Used to have to put a loop of punched paper tape in just
>>>>> so it could find the beginning of the page!
>>>>>
>>>>> bill
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Different world now, isn't it ?. Similar problems with terminals on
>>>> unix, where the termcap file could be megabytes of special control
>>>> character sequences. As I said, the os cups system is very flexible
>>>> and keeps all the printer specific stuff in one place where it
>>>> belongs, but like the termcap example, is quite bulky because of the
>>>> myriad of printer types. No easy way around that I guess.
>>>> Can also be managed with a browser for setups and monitoring as well.
>>>>
>>>> Might be worth looking at for vms.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Or buying a $35 Raspberry Pi 2 and building a simple printer engine
>>> sit between VMS and whatever printer you have.
>>>
>>> bill
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Absolutely, a print server in a box...
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>
> Absolutely not. This is a 24/7 factory. We cannot put in some Raspies
> in a critcal environment. Better do it in the VMS environment so that
> we have full remote access for support whatever happens.

I would agree about cheap hardware, even if it is made of the same
quality parts as your $10e6 server. What you are really saying is
that you don't want a hacked together solution, (agree) but relaxed
about a hacked script to glue it all together ?. HP and many others
have been building network print servers in a box for decades,
some of which may take a pdf or jpeg input. Usually fully
configurable via a network browser or serial port.

Simon mentioned fully automated processes, which in fact makes life
easier, since the file format can be chosen to better match other
parts of the system. For example, it may be more convenient to
convert the process output to jpeg or tiff and send that directly to
the printer.

However, if you insist on a pdf compatible printer, it limits printer
selection choices and probably increases costs...

Chris

On 03/02/22 18:37, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2022-03-02, chris<chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>>
>> The reader is an application, either the free acrobat from Adobe, or in
>> use here, the Foxit reader, also free. They do paid for apps that
>> will edit exiting pdf files. Found that very useful where a pdf based
>> form is to be filled in. Similar utils exist for unix, linux etc. The
>> formatting for the printer is done within the app, and just talks to
>> the printer via the os printer driver...
>>
>
> Everyone here knows about those utilities Chris, but what you are
> missing is that you are assuming some manual process where people
> manually open every PDF on a PC before manually printing it.

Wasn't really assuming much at all and using the apps as an
example, but also that scripts could be used to convert and format
data form one format to another.

For corporate workflows, that varies widely, with pdf used as a
standard exchange format, but other file formats could be just as
relevant for an automated process. It's easy to fix on a single solution
to a problem, but casting the net a bit wider might get
a better result overall.

As for PCL, yes, in the early days of Laserjets, but modern processes
tend to work at a much higher level of abstraction now, thankfully...

Chris

>
> That is simply not how it works in many corporate workflows.
>
> In many business cases, complex documents are created automatically by
> a program (invoicing/statements, etc) and then printed automatically as
> part of a batch run without any human ever been involved in the process.
>
> I've actually generated barcodes in the distant past on VMS as part
> of generating batches of documents automatically. IIRC, I did it by
> generating PCL to draw the boxes on the documents and the documents
> were sent to laser printers controlled by DCPS.
>
> No third party utilities were involved. Code 39 (for example) is very
> well documented:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_39
>
> There are other encoding standards which are also well documented.
> All you need now is to dust off your PCL programming skills. :-)
>
> (Or these days, just use a printer with a barcode font. :-))
>
> Simon.
>

Den 2022-03-02 kl. 20:26, skrev Doug Phillips:
> On 3/2/2022 12:56 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 19:10, skrev Doug Phillips:
>>
>>> Since you have Windows involved anyway...
>>
>> I do not (for this specific need). This is only on OpenVMS.
>> I do not understand where you have got that from...
>>
>>
>
> Sorry. Since you're creating PDFs...

Yes. Using OpenVMS, Python and the ReportLab module.

> then my guess...

Don't guess.

> was you have some non-VMS
> systems but maybe not Windows. Just saying that there are Windows (and
> maybe Apple and maybe *nix) apps that do file conversion, but that's not my
> world.

And not my question.

>
> If you need to print a form...

I would not call it a "form". It is a page having some simple
text and one barcode.

> with barcodes, then the easiest way is to use
> the printer's barcode fonts.

Yes, if there are some. Most small printers does not have
any barcodes fonts.

> I haven't met a Xerox business-class laser...

*I* have not mentioned any "business-class" printer either.

> I think my first question was relevant:
> "Is your primary goal to print PDF's or to print barcodes?"

It is to print a page with some simple text and one barcode.

Be assured that I *do* know printing technologies in general.

My only question was if there was a simple way to put the DCPS
symbiont in some "pass-through" mode. Maybe not. But a simple
COPY to the TNA device obviously also works fine.

On 03/02/22 23:56, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 20:26, skrev Doug Phillips:
>> On 3/2/2022 12:56 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 19:10, skrev Doug Phillips:
>>>
>>>> Since you have Windows involved anyway...
>>>
>>> I do not (for this specific need). This is only on OpenVMS.
>>> I do not understand where you have got that from...
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Sorry. Since you're creating PDFs...
>
> Yes. Using OpenVMS, Python and the ReportLab module.
>
>> then my guess...
>
> Don't guess.
>
>> was you have some non-VMS systems but maybe not Windows. Just saying
>> that there are Windows (and maybe Apple and maybe *nix) apps that do
>> file conversion, but that's not my world.
>
> And not my question.
>
>>
>> If you need to print a form...
>
> I would not call it a "form". It is a page having some simple
> text and one barcode.
>
>> with barcodes, then the easiest way is to use the printer's barcode
>> fonts.
>
> Yes, if there are some. Most small printers does not have
> any barcodes fonts.
>
>> I haven't met a Xerox business-class laser...
>
> *I* have not mentioned any "business-class" printer either.
>
>> I think my first question was relevant:
>> "Is your primary goal to print PDF's or to print barcodes?"
>
> It is to print a page with some simple text and one barcode.
>
> Be assured that I *do* know printing technologies in general.
>
> My only question was if there was a simple way to put the DCPS
> symbiont in some "pass-through" mode. Maybe not. But a simple
> COPY to the TNA device obviously also works fine.
>
>

So you just want it transparent to data ?. Must be a section in
the vms manual set covering that...

Chris

>

Den 2022-03-03 kl. 02:29, skrev chris:
> On 03/02/22 23:56, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 20:26, skrev Doug Phillips:
>>> On 3/2/2022 12:56 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 19:10, skrev Doug Phillips:
>>>>
>>>>> Since you have Windows involved anyway...
>>>>
>>>> I do not (for this specific need). This is only on OpenVMS.
>>>> I do not understand where you have got that from...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry. Since you're creating PDFs...
>>
>> Yes. Using OpenVMS, Python and the ReportLab module.
>>
>>> then my guess...
>>
>> Don't guess.
>>
>>> was you have some non-VMS systems but maybe not Windows. Just saying
>>> that there are Windows (and maybe Apple and maybe *nix) apps that do
>>> file conversion, but that's not my world.
>>
>> And not my question.
>>
>>>
>>> If you need to print a form...
>>
>> I would not call it a "form". It is a page having some simple
>> text and one barcode.
>>
>>> with barcodes, then the easiest way is to use the printer's barcode
>>> fonts.
>>
>> Yes, if there are some. Most small printers does not have
>> any barcodes fonts.
>>
>>> I haven't met a Xerox business-class laser...
>>
>> *I* have not mentioned any "business-class" printer either.
>>
>>> I think my first question was relevant:
>>> "Is your primary goal to print PDF's or to print barcodes?"
>>
>> It is to print a page with some simple text and one barcode.
>>
>> Be assured that I *do* know printing technologies in general.
>>
>> My only question was if there was a simple way to put the DCPS
>> symbiont in some "pass-through" mode. Maybe not. But a simple
>> COPY to the TNA device obviously also works fine.
>>
>>
>
> So you just want it transparent to data ?. Must be a section in
> the vms manual set covering that...
>
> Chris
>
>
>>
>

OK. This is not an issue anymore.
Thank for your helpfull comments.

In article <svoel9$vgu$3@dont-email.me>,
=?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?= <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
writes:

> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 19:10, skrev Doug Phillips:
>
> > Since you have Windows involved anyway...
>
> I do not (for this specific need). This is only on OpenVMS.
> I do not understand where you have got that from...

Maybe since you've often stated that you do all "desktop stuff" on
Windows. :-)

Den 2022-03-03 kl. 12:29, skrev Phillip Helbig (undress to reply):
> In article <svoel9$vgu$3@dont-email.me>,
> =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?= <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
> writes:
>
>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 19:10, skrev Doug Phillips:
>>
>>> Since you have Windows involved anyway...
>>
>> I do not (for this specific need). This is only on OpenVMS.
>> I do not understand where you have got that from...
>
> Maybe since you've often stated that you do all "desktop stuff" on
> Windows. :-)
>

Where did I wrote that this is "desktop stuff"?

This is part of the material/pallet handling within the factory.

On 03/03/22 11:29, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> In article<svoel9$vgu$3@dont-email.me>,
> =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?=<jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
> writes:
>
>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 19:10, skrev Doug Phillips:
>>
>>> Since you have Windows involved anyway...
>>
>> I do not (for this specific need). This is only on OpenVMS.
>> I do not understand where you have got that from...
>
> Maybe since you've often stated that you do all "desktop stuff" on
> Windows. :-)
>

Perhaps not completely clear in the op that this was an automated
process, which is probably why I got sidetracked into other
areas. Life is not perfect etc :-)...

Chris

Den 2022-03-03 kl. 14:27, skrev chris:
> On 03/03/22 11:29, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>> In article<svoel9$vgu$3@dont-email.me>,
>> =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?=<jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
>> writes:
>>
>>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 19:10, skrev Doug Phillips:
>>>
>>>> Since you have Windows involved anyway...
>>>
>>> I do not (for this specific need). This is only on OpenVMS.
>>> I do not understand where you have got that from...
>>
>> Maybe since you've often stated that you do all "desktop stuff" on
>> Windows.  :-)
>>
>
> Perhaps not completely clear in the op that this was an automated
> process, which is probably why I got sidetracked into other
> areas. Life is not perfect etc :-)...
>
> Chris
>

I wrote that

"The PDF files will be created on the fly just for the printout".

I thought it was understood that this happens on VMS.

And I hoped that "on the fly" implied that it was not a manual process.

I'll make a note about being clearer in the future... :-)

On 03/03/22 14:08, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2022-03-03 kl. 14:27, skrev chris:
>> On 03/03/22 11:29, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>>> In article<svoel9$vgu$3@dont-email.me>,
>>> =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?=<jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
>>> writes:
>>>
>>>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 19:10, skrev Doug Phillips:
>>>>
>>>>> Since you have Windows involved anyway...
>>>>
>>>> I do not (for this specific need). This is only on OpenVMS.
>>>> I do not understand where you have got that from...
>>>
>>> Maybe since you've often stated that you do all "desktop stuff" on
>>> Windows. :-)
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps not completely clear in the op that this was an automated
>> process, which is probably why I got sidetracked into other
>> areas. Life is not perfect etc :-)...
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
> I wrote that
>
> "The PDF files will be created on the fly just for the printout".
>
> I thought it was understood that this happens on VMS.
>
> And I hoped that "on the fly" implied that it was not a manual process.
>
> I'll make a note about being clearer in the future... :-)

Just a ghost in the machine, no blame :-)...

On 3/2/22 11:05 AM, chris wrote:

> As I said, the os cups system is very flexible
> and keeps all the printer specific stuff in one place where it
> belongs, but like the termcap example, is quite bulky because of the
> myriad of printer types. No easy way around that I guess.
> Can also be managed with a browser for setups and monitoring as well.
>
> Might be worth looking at for vms.

Printing PDF files from VMS has been discussed for years, even back in
the Compaq and HP days.

I have had no problem printing PDF files to my home HP LaserJet printer.
Forget if I used an LPD or a Telnetsym queue, but just throwing a PDF
file at a printer that understands PDF works just fine. DCPS does not
work in this environment today, since it controls the printer with
PostScript commands and knows nothing about PDF.

One problem, mentioned earlier here, is that such a print job would be
printed strictly with printer defaults of input and output trays,
duplexing, and a lack of other nice DCPS features.

If customers have a need for PDF printing on VMS, VSI would like to hear
from you. Talk to your support person, or send mail to
info@vmssoftware.com. Porting CUPS to VMS would certainly be one
solution. Enhancing DCPS to include hooks for a converter to handle PDF
files would be another.

Paul

Den 2022-03-06 kl. 02:39, skrev Paul Anderson:
> On 3/2/22 11:05 AM, chris wrote:
>
> > As I said, the os cups system is very flexible
> > and keeps all the printer specific stuff in one place where it
> > belongs, but like the termcap example, is quite bulky because of the
> > myriad  of printer types. No easy way around that I guess.
> > Can also be managed with a browser for setups and monitoring as well.
> >
> > Might be worth looking at for vms.
>
> Printing PDF files from VMS has been discussed for years, even back in the
> Compaq and HP days.
>
> I have had no problem printing PDF files to my home HP LaserJet printer.
>  Forget if I used an LPD or a Telnetsym queue, but just throwing a PDF
> file at a printer that understands PDF works just fine.  DCPS does not work
> in this environment today, since it controls the printer with PostScript
> commands and knows nothing about PDF.
>
> One problem, mentioned earlier here, is that such a print job would be
> printed strictly with printer defaults of input and output trays,
> duplexing, and a lack of other nice DCPS features.
>
> If customers have a need for PDF printing on VMS, VSI would like to hear
> from you.  Talk to your support person, or send mail to
> info@vmssoftware.com.  Porting CUPS to VMS would certainly be one
> solution.  Enhancing DCPS to include hooks for a converter to handle PDF
> files would be another.
>
> Paul

We have good tools to create PDF documents (ReportLab i Python) so yes,
being able to print these to PS compatible printers shoudl be nice.

To print PDF files on PDF compatible printers is not real an issue, if you
use something else then DCPS. One can cimply create a TNA device pointing
the the 9100 port in the printer and COPY the PDF file to that device.
Most printers 9100 ports has many concurrent sessions, so there is not
really any risk for the port being blocked. Sure, the printer can be
shutdown, but...

But sure, DCPS might help to use non PDF compatible printers.

And having PDF as the printing format also makes it easy to save the
files on a web served directory, so re-printing or just viewing the
files becomes easy.

On 2022-03-02 15:40:29 +0000, chris said:

> I just assume that vms would have the sort of common sense utilities
> that most of the mainstream world has taken for granted for decades
> now, but perhaps i'm wrong.

OpenVMS printing was getting stale around Y2K, and little has changed
in the ensuing decades. IPP/IPPS support is lacking, same for Bonjour
to find printers, and otherwise.

Per one industry source: "98% of all printers sold today support
IPP/2.0 and DNS-SD."

Much the same for common utilities, file shares, and other tools for
printing and otherwise. netcat might be useful for hack-printing here
for instance, but that's not readily available for OpenVMS.

A whole lot of OpenVMS-generated data does get routed through other
platforms for further processing, such as via an LPR/LPD or telnet
server queue, or via EXECSMB, or via a file share or
remotely-accessible directory hosted on OpenVMS, or otherwise.

There are ports of PDF readers, of Ghostscript, of binutils and other
such tools, but they're not shipped as part of the operating system and
are thus not available on many OpenVMS boxes.

(As for assumptions of "most of the mainstream world" and tooling
around OpenVMS, ~twenty years on, and we're still adding zip and unzip
to our OpenVMS installs.)

Most of this is certainly possible to add to OpenVMS locally.

If you're interested in adding some dependencies to your own OpenVMS
server printing support, I'd start looking here:
https://istopwg.github.io/ippsample/index.html

DNS-SD info is available at: http://www.zeroconf.org and there's a
semi-recent tutorial video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gbY9ScZJlQ

--
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