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computers / comp.misc / Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade Low

SubjectAuthor
* [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowComputer Nerd Kev
+* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowAndy Burns
|+* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowDan Espen
||+- Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowMike Spencer
||`* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowAndy Burns
|| +* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowSpiros Bousbouras
|| |+* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowAndy Burns
|| ||+- Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowSpiros Bousbouras
|| ||`* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowJavier
|| || `- Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowComputer Nerd Kev
|| |`* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowMarco Moock
|| | `- Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowComputer Nerd Kev
|| `* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowMarco Moock
||  `- Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowScott Dorsey
|+* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowMarco Moock
||+* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowAndy Burns
|||`* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowMarco Moock
||| `* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowDan Espen
|||  `* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowComputer Nerd Kev
|||   +* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade Lowant
|||   |`- Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowComputer Nerd Kev
|||   `- Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowJavier
||`- Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowMike Spencer
|+- Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowEric Pozharski
|+- Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowNicholas Outre
|`* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowSpiros Bousbouras
| +* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowAndy Burns
| |`- Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowSpiros Bousbouras
| +- Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowComputer Nerd Kev
| `- Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowJoe Beanfish
`* Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowOregonian Haruspex
 `- Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade LowJavier

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Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade Low

<63bb2e3c@news.ausics.net>

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From: not...@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Subject: Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade Low
Newsgroups: comp.misc,comp.os.linux.misc
References: <63b5f469@news.ausics.net> <k1me2lF4h4nU1@mid.individual.net> <tp5618$2jv6u$1@dont-email.me> <k1nqskFauepU1@mid.individual.net> <Sf76NVBKwmCUL57Iq@bongo-ra.co> <k1omvhFf4t5U1@mid.individual.net> <K8udndmPf65-rCf-nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Sun, 8 Jan 2023 20:57 UTC

In comp.misc Javier <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> In comp.misc Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
>>
>>> I was under the impression that one of the plans for Wayland was to be able
>>> to run X server on top of it so that all X11 applications would continue to
>>> work. Has this plan been abandoned ?
>>
>> I think that still exists, XServer sits on top of Wayland, apps tolk to XServer,
>> believing it's Xorg, but when that first crept into Fedora, it seemed to break
>> the tradional way of X remoting by
>>
>> export DISPLAY=host:0.0
>>
>
> That is because modern versions of the XServer have disabled TCP
> listening by default.

Correct, and they didn't document the change properly either. Last
time I checked the current version of the man page didn't describe
the changed default. If they're going to mess with core
functionality like that and not bother to document it, then I
_would_ much rather that they wound down work on Xorg.

> $ cat /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc
> #!/bin/sh
> exec /usr/bin/X -nolisten tcp "$@"
>
> You need to remove the '-nolisten tcp' from /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc
> That should do the trick.

Incorrect, that's what you needed to do _before_ the change to the
Xorg server. Now '-nolisten tcp' is the default so that argument
does nothing. Instead to enable remote connections like X used to
do without the '-nolisten tcp' option, you use the '-listen tcp'
option in the same place:

exec /usr/bin/X -listen tcp "$@"

But I don't know whether that's the problem in Fedora, or even how
they actually launch X within Wayland there (do they even use
xinit or startx?).

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade Low

<tpg9n1$3skd$1@dont-email.me>

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From: no_em...@invalid.invalid (Oregonian Haruspex)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade Low
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2023 05:46:09 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Oregonian Haruspex - Mon, 9 Jan 2023 05:46 UTC

They have been rejecting good patches. Xgl was just ignored and finally
taken out. Frankly X11 is finished software.

Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade Low

<tpgeu1$48kp$1@dont-email.me>

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From: mo0...@posteo.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade Low
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2023 08:15:13 +0100
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 by: Marco Moock - Mon, 9 Jan 2023 07:15 UTC

Am 05.01.2023 um 11:33:39 Uhr schrieb Andy Burns:

> I fall into the category where Gnome (my distro's default) as a WM
> doesn't annoy me enough to use anything differen

Use it on small screens or slow GPUs, then you will see that is is bad
in that cases.

Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade Low

<tpgevq$48kp$2@dont-email.me>

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From: mo0...@posteo.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: comp.misc,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade Low
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 by: Marco Moock - Mon, 9 Jan 2023 07:16 UTC

Am 05.01.2023 um 18:11:17 Uhr schrieb Spiros Bousbouras:

> [Crossposting to comp.os.linux.misc . ]
>
> On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 11:33:39 +0000
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> > Dan Espen wrote:
> >
> > > Andy Burns writes:
> > >
> > >> what do people actually want X11 for now?
> > >
> > > To keep running the same WM I've been using for decades.
> >
> > I fall into the category where Gnome (my distro's default) as a WM
> > doesn't annoy me enough to use anything different, I did use XFCE
> > for a bit, and now I don't know which do/don't work with wayland
> > ... that's what I meant by "fizzle out" if your favourite WM
> > doesn't support wayland, eventually it's going to find it self
> > beached without X11 to run on top of ..
>
> I was under the impression that one of the plans for Wayland was to
> be able to run X server on top of it so that all X11 applications
> would continue to work. Has this plan been abandoned ?

What is the benefit of that if the WM itself doesn't run on Wayland?

Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade Low

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From: not...@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Subject: Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade Low
Newsgroups: comp.misc,comp.os.linux.misc
References: <63b5f469@news.ausics.net> <k1me2lF4h4nU1@mid.individual.net> <tp5618$2jv6u$1@dont-email.me> <k1nqskFauepU1@mid.individual.net> <Sf76NVBKwmCUL57Iq@bongo-ra.co> <tpgevq$48kp$2@dont-email.me>
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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Mon, 9 Jan 2023 09:32 UTC

In comp.misc Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> Am 05.01.2023 um 18:11:17 Uhr schrieb Spiros Bousbouras:
>>
>> I was under the impression that one of the plans for Wayland was to
>> be able to run X server on top of it so that all X11 applications
>> would continue to work. Has this plan been abandoned ?
>
> What is the benefit of that if the WM itself doesn't run on Wayland?

So that software that doesn't use a Wayland-supporting graphics
toolkit can still be run on a system running Wayland. Most distros
package many programs that will probably never be rewritten to work
on Wayland directly.

My assumption is that there's some magic that allows separate X
program windows to display in separate Wayland windows while still
sharing the same X server, like Xming can do on Windows.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade Low

<tpkhpl$45v$1@panix2.panix.com>

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From: klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade Low
Date: 10 Jan 2023 20:28:37 -0000
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 by: Scott Dorsey - Tue, 10 Jan 2023 20:28 UTC

In article <tpgeu1$48kp$1@dont-email.me>, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
>Am 05.01.2023 um 11:33:39 Uhr schrieb Andy Burns:
>
>> I fall into the category where Gnome (my distro's default) as a WM
>> doesn't annoy me enough to use anything differen
>
>Use it on small screens or slow GPUs, then you will see that is is bad
>in that cases.

Any minute now! It's going to refresh... see... there, it's refreshing! Now
click on the bar and hold it down until the menu appears... yeah... keep
holding... there's the menu, scroll down and....
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade Low

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From: inva...@invalid.invalid (Javier)
Subject: Re: [LINK] X11 Server Development Pace Hits A Two Decade Low
Newsgroups: comp.misc
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 by: Javier - Fri, 20 Jan 2023 23:13 UTC

Oregonian Haruspex <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> They have been rejecting good patches. Xgl was just ignored and finally
> taken out. Frankly X11 is finished software.

It looks similar to the Python 2 way: if the replacement doesn't have
enough features to be popular, then kill the old software stopping
development and threat with excommunication to anybody who contributes
to the old software.

The olnly people who can contribute to the old software are outsiders,
whom they cannot excommunicate. Tauthon 2.8 is a good example. It
was done by somebody foreign to the Python foundation who bothered to
port some Python3 features that were trivial to port to Python 2, but
which the Python devs didn't want to port.

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