Curious how mobile plans around the world compare with mine in the USA.

While I've had all three major carriers in Silicon Valley, I've found them
to be rather similar in all but in price - where I'm currently on T-Mobile.
<https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg>

*Cost first:*
I pay about $25/line per month (plus taxes) for a family plan.
That covers unlimited everything (USA calls, text/mms & data).
Plus I got a handful of _free_ Android Samsung Galaxy A325G phones.
Plus a few iPads have the free 200MB/month SIM for life.
And I recently bought also a 128GB iPhone 12 mini (at about half price).

*Coverage second:*
I live in the boonies and my coverage everywhere I go is just fine.
In the past T-Mobile gave me a free cellular tower inside my house.
T-Mobile also gave me a free cellular repeater because I asked nicely.
I still have them but I don't need them but they are nice to have.
When I travel in the USA, my coverage has been just fine AFAICT.
I have the phone set to free roaming but I don't know when it's used.
When I travel to Europe, the free roaming covers me just fine.
(In Europe everything is unlimited except calls are 20 cents/minute.)

*Reliability third:*
There is no contract and no penalties.
There isn't even a penalty if you run over data (which you can't).
The free phones do have a 2-year lien (but that's not a big deal).
My signal never disappears.
I call them and I get what they call "my own team of experts."
I never am stuck with conversing with a machine.
I've switched phones a lot and they let me buy from anywhere any phone.
I've never had to pay for a SIM card (they send them FedEx for free).

How does your plan compare with that cost, coverage, & reliability.
How does anyone's plan compare with T-Mobile as shown above?

Am I getting a good deal compared to the only three carrier choices?
AT&T, T-Mobile & Verizon

I'm curious how your mobile plan compares with the one that I have?
(If you use an MVNO, please state the underlying tower carrier.)
--
I've had all three carriers, sequentially, over time, and their reliability
is about the same, as was their coverage - but T-Mobile cost was the lowest.

Robin Goodfellow <Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> asked
> I'm curious how your mobile plan compares with the one that I have?

Am I getting a good deal or a terrible deal or the same deal as you get?

To help you further explain how your cellular plan compares to mine...
here is real time ad hoc technical data on signal strength at home (dBm).
<https://i.postimg.cc/xCbVQ2pj/signal02.jpg>

Roughly, when I turn off the internal towers inside my house,
I get in the mid to high negative nineties on cellular signal strength.

Here is real time technical data on signal speed at home on my phone (Mbps).
<https://i.postimg.cc/C5vgmtRd/speedtest15.jpg>
Roughly, when I'm on 5G, I get around 100Mbps to about 300Mbps speeds.

When I'm on LTE, it seems to be about half the 5G speeds (they fluctuate).
<https://i.postimg.cc/pdXF4Mtz/speedtest03.jpg>

The data is "unlimited" and it never stops, but T-Mobile says that they can
throttle if I go over 50GB/month on any one "congested tower", but that's
not going to happen anytime soon (I use about 1GB to 3GB a month lately).

Bear in mind I'm so far in the boonies we don't even have cable on our poles
(it's all LOS WISP or Satellite), nor do we have water, gas, or sewage. It's
rural for sure in that you can't even put more than one house on 79 acres
[32 hectares, 3.441x10^6 sq feet] as the minimum per building codes is 40
acres per home [16.2 hectares, 1.742e+6 sq feet] and no building within 100
feet of the roadway (they want everything out of sight).

I'm so far in the boonies we don't even have cable on our poles (Internet
is all LOS WISP or Satellite), nor do we have piped in water, gas, or piped
out sewage. It's rural for sure. The only services we have are power and
electrical (and phone but nobody has a landline anymore) where it all must
be underground from the last pole to the house.

The key point is that I'm miles from any carriers' cell tower (maybe ten by
road but maybe only four or so by LOS) so my signal should be as bad as
anyone's signal would be for a residential (but rural) area.

Luckily the phone can roam for free as long as it can see any compatible
tower, whether I'm in the USA or traveling in Europe (I didn't check Canada
or Mexico).

I forgot to mention the free tethering/hotspotting (they call it the same
thing even as they're quite different to me) is only 5GB/month in the USA
and 0GB/month in Europe.

Overall, I think that explains my plan where my goal in this thread is to
compare my random plan with whatever your plan provides you by way of facts.

How does your mobile plan compare with mine?
Am I getting a good deal or a terrible deal or the same deal as you get?

On 2021-10-05 12:12 p.m., Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> Curious how mobile plans around the world compare with mine in the USA.
>
> While I've had all three major carriers in Silicon Valley, I've found them
> to be rather similar in all but in price - where I'm currently on T-Mobile.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg>
>
> *Cost first:*
> I pay about $25/line per month (plus taxes) for a family plan.
> That covers unlimited everything (USA calls, text/mms & data).
> Plus I got a handful of _free_ Android Samsung Galaxy A325G phones.
> Plus a few iPads have the free 200MB/month SIM for life.
> And I recently bought also a 128GB iPhone 12 mini (at about half price).
>
> *Coverage second:*

And it's idiotic to consider cost before coverage.

It doesn't matter if the cost is zero, if the phone doesn't work.

Tell you what, I'll promise you cell phone service for $5/month with
unlimited data. Only one catch, your phone will only work in my condo.

:-)

> I live in the boonies and my coverage everywhere I go is just fine.
> In the past T-Mobile gave me a free cellular tower inside my house.
> T-Mobile also gave me a free cellular repeater because I asked nicely.
> I still have them but I don't need them but they are nice to have.
> When I travel in the USA, my coverage has been just fine AFAICT.
> I have the phone set to free roaming but I don't know when it's used.
> When I travel to Europe, the free roaming covers me just fine.
> (In Europe everything is unlimited except calls are 20 cents/minute.)
>
> *Reliability third:*
> There is no contract and no penalties.

Which has nothing to do with reliability.

> There isn't even a penalty if you run over data (which you can't).

Which has nothing to do with reliability.

> The free phones do have a 2-year lien (but that's not a big deal).

Which has nothing to do with reliability.

> My signal never disappears.
> I call them and I get what they call "my own team of experts."

Which has nothing to do with reliability.

And wouldn't be necessary if they weren't at times unreliable.

A car is not made any more reliable by the fact that the manufacturers
service is excellent.

> I never am stuck with conversing with a machine.

And still nothing to do with reliability.

> I've switched phones a lot and they let me buy from anywhere any phone.

And still nothing to do with reliability.

> I've never had to pay for a SIM card (they send them FedEx for free).

And still nothing to do with reliability.

On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 19:44:47 +0000, Robin Goodfellow wrote:

> How does your mobile plan compare with mine?

Do you pay anything when someone calls you?

On 10/5/2021 12:12 PM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:

<snip>

> I'm curious how your mobile plan compares with the one that I have?
> (If you use an MVNO, please state the underlying tower carrier.)

Over the years I've had cellular service from many different carriers:
GTE Mobilnet, Cellular One, AT&T (old), Pac Bell Wireless, Cingular,
AT&T (new), T-Mobile, Verizon, and several MVNOs or carrier-owned
prepaid services: Page Plus (Verizon), Consumer Cellular (AT&T), Cricket
(AT&T), and Total Wireless (Verizon).

Pac Bell Wireless was by far the worst. It was the first GSM network in
my area, and operated at 1900 MHz so in-building coverage was worse than
networks using 850 MHz bands. They offered very attractive pricing when
they launched, but were over-subscribed and unable to provide sufficient
capacity. Pac Bell Wireless was acquired by Cingular when SBC acquired
Pacific Bell, then sold to T-Mobile when Cingular bought AT&T.

T-Mobile was not good because of coverage issues in the western U.S.,
and the maps and the Rootmetrics report confirm that these coverage
issues still exist outside of urban areas.

Consumer Cellular and Cricket, both on AT&T worked fine but Consumer
Cellular, at the time, had no data plans with a sufficient amount of
data for family plans. Now Consumer Cellular is very expensive for plans
with sufficient quantities of data, plus they now limit the number of
lines on an account to only three.

Cricket worked fine but at the time did not offer hotspot, and also they
throttled data to 8Mb/s. Cricket now offers unlimited, unthrottled,
data, and includes 15GB of hotspot data per line, but the price has gone
up to $33 per line on a four line plan (they originally offered 5 lines
for $100, ($20 per line)).

I’m currently using Total Wireless with 100GB of shared data per month
on four lines, with 10GB of hotspot data per line, for a little under
$100 per month including taxes and fees. Downsides of Total Wireless are
a) no international roaming, not even to Canada and Mexico, b) no eSIM
support (most MVNOs lack eSIM support), and c) no Apple Watch support
(which requires eSIM support). Verizon is in the process of trying to
buy all the América Móvil brands in the U.S., including Total Wireless
<https://www.lightreading.com/ossbsscx/verizon-to-broaden-out-prepaid-offerings/d/d-id/772053>.

Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> asked
>> How does your mobile plan compare with mine?
>
> Do you pay anything when someone calls you?

Good question, which I forgot to cover in the details.
I apologize for my factual omission.

I get where you're coming from as I've had cellular since the analog days
and book-sized carrying cases, where they did charge in the USA for incoming
as well as outgoing calls in those early analog days (and they even had
pricing based on "friends and family" and the same carrier's connections.

All that complexity was done away with so long ago that I can't remember
when, so the simple answer is that I haven't seen any plan in the USA in
probably almost two decades that charges for incoming calls. (AFAIK)

However, I thank you for bringing up that point which I had forgotten about!
With that in mind...

I'm curious about plans around the world (and so we learn from each other).
Mine is $25/line (plus tax === ~116/month) for USA unlimited everything
(except the free hotspotting/tethering, which is limited to 5GB/month).

Even in Europe, it's unlimited for everything except phone calls, which,
both made and received are 20 cents per minute (free roaming though) and
there is no tethering/hotspotting (they call it the same thing even though
to me they are different things).

You can pay $10/GB if you need the tethering/hotspotting in Europe though.

In my case, I lump the phones with the plan because most of my phones are
free (there is no contract, but they put a 2-year lien on the phone itself).
<https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5SpS4D/tmopromo02.jpg>

Although I did have to pay about half price for the new 128GB iPhone 12 mini
(with tradein of an old 32 GByte iPhone 7) which also has a 2 year lien.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg>

Given the cost, the coverage, the service, and the speeds as shown above...
I'm curious: *How does your mobile plan compare with mine?*

On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 20:14:06 +0000, Robin Goodfellow wrote:

> I'm curious about plans around the world (and so we learn from each
> other). Mine is $25/line (plus tax === ~116/month) for USA unlimited
> everything (except the free hotspotting/tethering, which is limited to
> 5GB/month).

I pay 10 pounds (about $13.50 currently) monthly. That's for 9GB,
unlimited calls and texts. That's for a single SIM/line. The 9GB can be
tethered.

That's within the UK; it used to be the same for calls to/from the EU
before Brexit.

Bob Eager wrote:

> That's within the UK; it used to be the same for calls to/from the EU
> before Brexit.

It probably still is (and still will be) until you change/renew your contract.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> asked
> I'm currently using Total Wireless with 100GB of shared data per month
> on four lines, with 10GB of hotspot data per line, for a little under
> $100 per month including taxes and fees.

Thank you very much for that side-by-side comparison of local plans.
Steve is also in the Silicon Valley, up a few miles further north of me.

His plan seems essentially the same as my plan, at least in "big things",
although certainly some details differed in what he kindly explained.

One more detail I noticed in Steve's post was that his data is "shared",
between his four lines, whereas T-Mobile doesn't do data sharing (AFAIK).

When it's more than you need, the fact it's shared or not shared doesn't
matter in the least, but I like to be technically accurate so I apologize
for not stating that all the figures I quoted were "per line" and not
shared.

To T-Mobile, nothing is shared (AFAIK) so when I say it's unlimited data,
that means unlimited data _per line_ where any one line "can" be throttled
on "congested towers" if that data goes over 50GB/month _per that line_ and
where the data is never actually fully turned off but is only throttled
(probably to uselessly slow speeds though such that it's essentially off).

I don't know how to circumvent that data throttling after 50GB/month, but
certainly all you need to do, if that happens, is change towers, if you can.
But if you're at home, I suspect you might be able to turn off roaming,
which may change your tower (but how would you know?).

Probably more reliable than turning roaming on and off, if you're using up
over 50GB/month of data is perhaps turning on or off your in-home cellular
repeater or moving your cellular repeater (which everyone in the mountains
has in an upstairs window) to a different window on a different side of teh
house.

I don't know how they charge for the in-house femtocell, which is hooked to
your router, where it is, by law, a "cellular tower" (I believe), so it may
also be limited to the 50GB/month/line (but why would they limit it since it
uses your own Internet connection?).

Given everyone technically competent (on any carrier, whether it be AT&T,
T-Mobile, or Verizon) already has either a free cellular repeater or a free
cellular tower inside their house in the boonies, do you know if these FCC
regulated devices can be used to overcome the 50GB/month/line data limit?

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> asked
>> That's within the UK; it used to be the same for calls to/from the EU
>> before Brexit.
>
> It probably still is (and still will be) until you change/renew your contract.

That's interesting that Brexit plays a role, where hopefully it will _lower_
your costs (as costs, in general, tend to go down over time just as the
device performance & cellular service tends to get better and better over
time with all things in the consumer electronic arena, don't they?).

For example, my last few phones were better, faster, and cheaper in turn:
$350 Nexus 5 (from T-Mobile)
$200 Moto G (from Google)
$130 LG Stylo 3 Plus (from Costco)
$100 Motorola Moto G7 (from Google)
$0 Samsung Galaxy A325G (from T-Mobile)

It's not only phones but almost all non-highly-marketed electronics get
_much_ faster, _much_ better, and _much_ cheaper over time, don't they?

Even my cellular plans seem to get better, faster, and cheaper over time in
that on April 28th of this year, T-Mobile upgraded me from 4GB
data/month/line to unlimited data/month/line - for absolutely no change in
price on my plan (they upgraded, for free, everyone in the USA, to unlimited
data, who was on a postpaid plan that had _any_ data).

BTW, while we're talking technical details to compare plans side by side...

I was thinking of what else I forgot to mention, which is Wi-Fi calling.
*Do you Europeans use Wi-Fi calling?*
*Do you get unlimited two-way Wi-Fi calling for free?*

For me, on my T-Mobile USA plan, in the USA I get free wifi calling (which I
don't really understand as I don't know what happens to the call signal when
it gets past my router onto the Internet - but somehow that "counts" against
calling minutes on plans that charge for calling minutes - but not on mine).

What's better though, is when I travel to Europe (where I have friends and
family in Munchen and London), the Wi-Fi calls are not counted as the 20
cents per minute calls (20 cents per minute is about 0.17 Euros).

That means if you can make all your sent and received calls in Europe over
Wi-Fi, then you're _not_ charged the 20 US cents (0.17 Euro) per minute.

Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote
> Robin Goodfellow wrote

>> I'm curious about plans around the world (and so we learn
>> from each other). Mine is $25/line (plus tax === ~116/month)
>> for USA unlimited everything (except the free hotspotting/
>> tethering, which is limited to 5GB/month).

> I pay 10 pounds (about $13.50 currently) monthly.
> That's for 9GB, unlimited calls and texts. That's for
> a single SIM/line. The 9GB can be tethered.

I pay A$10, equivalent to US$7 for unlimited calls, texts,
MMS to any landline or mobile in Oz and 6GB of data.
Incoming calls cost nothing. Can be tethered.

That’s an MNVO on the Optus network.

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> asked
> I pay A$10, equivalent to US$7 for unlimited calls, texts,
> MMS to any landline or mobile in Oz and 6GB of data.
> Incoming calls cost nothing. Can be tethered.

He bring up a good point about the tethering limits per phone per month.

Mine has a 5GB/month/line limitation on hotspotting/tethering when used in
the USA (there is zero allowed hotspot/tether data in Europe but it can be
purchased at $10/GB/month I'm told).

It's a use-it-or-lose-it rule, where you don't get to roll it over month to
month (I think AT&T had those data rollover plans in the past, as I recall).

If you exceed your limit in any one month, then the tethering data never
stops, it just can get "throttled" (how low, I don't know) if you're on a
congested tower.

But the first day of the next billing cycle, you get your
tethering/hotspotting limits back, so that's 5GB/month/line each month (with
no rollover privileges).

BTW, to me, tethering is when you hook your phone to one computer via USB
cable to share the phone's Internet connection whereas to me, hotspotting is
when you hook your phone to up to I think it's five (or is it ten?)
computers using your phone as a wireless access point for the Internet.

But T-Mobile gives them both the same (combined?) limit of 5GB/month/line
(after that, it can be throttled but it will never turn off completely).

Robin Goodfellow <Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> asked
>>> That's within the UK; it used to be the same for calls to/from the EU
>>> before Brexit.
>>
>> It probably still is (and still will be) until you change/renew your contract.
>
> That's interesting that Brexit plays a role, where hopefully it will _lower_
> your costs (as costs, in general, tend to go down over time just as the
> device performance & cellular service tends to get better and better over
> time with all things in the consumer electronic arena, don't they?).

Ha!

Brexit has been a shitstorm. Prices are going UP all over the place and
we're having shortages of fuel and food.

Hardly a surprise as we cut ourselves off from the world's largest free
market and forced many of the people doing low paid jobs to move away.

> For example, my last few phones were better, faster, and cheaper in turn:
> $350 Nexus 5 (from T-Mobile)
> $200 Moto G (from Google)
> $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus (from Costco)
> $100 Motorola Moto G7 (from Google)
> $0 Samsung Galaxy A325G (from T-Mobile)
>
> It's not only phones but almost all non-highly-marketed electronics get
> _much_ faster, _much_ better, and _much_ cheaper over time, don't they?
>
> Even my cellular plans seem to get better, faster, and cheaper over time in
> that on April 28th of this year, T-Mobile upgraded me from 4GB
> data/month/line to unlimited data/month/line - for absolutely no change in
> price on my plan (they upgraded, for free, everyone in the USA, to unlimited
> data, who was on a postpaid plan that had _any_ data).
>
> BTW, while we're talking technical details to compare plans side by side...
>
> I was thinking of what else I forgot to mention, which is Wi-Fi calling.
> *Do you Europeans use Wi-Fi calling?*

Remember Europe is the geographic continent made up of many different
countries, including the free market area, the EU, which has 27 member
states. Each country will have quite different setups.

In the UK, we do have wifi calling.

> *Do you get unlimited two-way Wi-Fi calling for free?*

No. It counts against your call credit.

FTR I pay £6 pm (incl. tax) for 4GB, 250 minutes and unlimited texts.
There's no contract and can change plan every month.

The kids are on £8 pm for 12 GB and unlimited everything else. Also no
contact.

In the UK it's cheaper to buy the phone outright and get a SIM-only deal.
There's no huge discounts like in the US, but as you see our monthly costs
are typically lower.

Robin Goodfellow <Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> asked

Nope, wrote.

>> I pay A$10, equivalent to US$7 for unlimited calls,
>> texts, MMS to any landline or mobile in Oz and 6GB
>> of data. Incoming calls cost nothing. Can be tethered.

> He bring up a good point about the tethering limits per phone per month.

> Mine has a 5GB/month/line limitation on hotspotting/
> tethering when used in the USA

We don’t have any specific limits on tethering, its just part of the data.

> (there is zero allowed hotspot/tether data in Europe
> but it can be purchased at $10/GB/month I'm told).

> It's a use-it-or-lose-it rule, where you don't get to roll it over month
> to
> month (I think AT&T had those data rollover plans in the past, as I
> recall).

> If you exceed your limit in any one month, then the tethering
> data never stops, it just can get "throttled" (how low, I don't
> know) if you're on a congested tower.

> But the first day of the next billing cycle, you get your
> tethering/hotspotting limits back, so that's 5GB/month/
> line each month (with no rollover privileges).

> BTW, to me, tethering is when you hook your phone to one computer via USB
> cable to share the phone's Internet connection whereas to me, hotspotting
> is
> when you hook your phone to up to I think it's five (or is it ten?)
> computers using your phone as a wireless access point for the Internet.

I wasn’t making that distinction. I was talking about any use of the cell
service
by other devices, usually PCs or laptops but can be tablets etc too.

> But T-Mobile gives them both the same (combined?) limit of 5GB/month/line
> (after that, it can be throttled but it will never turn off completely).

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote
> Robin Goodfellow <Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> wrote
>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote

>>>> That's within the UK; it used to be the same for calls to/from the EU
>>>> before Brexit.
>>>
>>> It probably still is (and still will be) until you change/renew your
>>> contract.
>>
>> That's interesting that Brexit plays a role, where hopefully it will
>> _lower_
>> your costs (as costs, in general, tend to go down over time just as the
>> device performance & cellular service tends to get better and better over
>> time with all things in the consumer electronic arena, don't they?).
>
> Ha!

> Brexit has been a shitstorm. Prices are going UP all over
> the place and we're having shortages of fuel and food.

Its very far from clear how much of that is due
to brexit and how much of that is due to covid.

> Hardly a surprise as we cut ourselves
> off from the world's largest free market

That hasn’t been cut off.

> and forced many of the people doing low paid jobs to move away.

On 10/5/2021 1:30 PM, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 20:14:06 +0000, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
>
>> I'm curious about plans around the world (and so we learn from each
>> other). Mine is $25/line (plus tax === ~116/month) for USA unlimited
>> everything (except the free hotspotting/tethering, which is limited to
>> 5GB/month).
>
> I pay 10 pounds (about $13.50 currently) monthly. That's for 9GB,
> unlimited calls and texts. That's for a single SIM/line. The 9GB can be
> tethered.
>
> That's within the UK; it used to be the same for calls to/from the EU
> before Brexit.

Brexit really sucks when it comes to mobile phone service. In 2019,
Vodafone had a good prepaid plan for visitors to the UK, and by
extension to Europe. That was eliminated by Vodafone.

On 10/5/2021 1:59 PM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> asked
>>> That's within the UK; it used to be the same for calls to/from the EU
>>> before Brexit.
>>
>> It probably still is (and still will be) until you change/renew your contract.
>
> That's interesting that Brexit plays a role, where hopefully it will _lower_
> your costs (as costs, in general, tend to go down over time just as the
> device performance & cellular service tends to get better and better over
> time with all things in the consumer electronic arena, don't they?).

Well I know that Vodafone UK wrecked the prepaid plan that they had for
visitors that charged up to £1 per day for up to 500MB of data. Voice,
text, and data throughout the EU (and EEA). Vodafone, EE, and 3, have
all ended EU roaming since Brexit, see
<https://www.mobileworldlive.com/featured-content/top-three/3-uk-ditches-free-roaming-in-the-eu>.

Of course Brexit has had other negative impacts on the UK as well.

On 10/5/2021 3:15 PM, Chris wrote:

<snip>

> Ha!
>
> Brexit has been a shitstorm. Prices are going UP all over the place and
> we're having shortages of fuel and food.
>
> Hardly a surprise as we cut ourselves off from the world's largest free
> market and forced many of the people doing low paid jobs to move away.

Well those that voted for Brexit probably understood full well that it
would have negative economic consequences, especially for sectors of the
economy like farming, fishing, energy, pharmaceuticals, meat packing,
finance, airlines, and manufacturing, but they felt that stopping
immigration from eastern Europe was worth it. Guest worker programs,
even if they adopt them, are not going to fix the problem.

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote
>> Robin Goodfellow <Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> wrote
>>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote
>
>>>>> That's within the UK; it used to be the same for calls to/from the EU
>>>>> before Brexit.
>>>>
>>>> It probably still is (and still will be) until you change/renew your
>>>> contract.
>>>
>>> That's interesting that Brexit plays a role, where hopefully it will
>>> _lower_
>>> your costs (as costs, in general, tend to go down over time just as the
>>> device performance & cellular service tends to get better and better over
>>> time with all things in the consumer electronic arena, don't they?).
>>
>> Ha!
>
>> Brexit has been a shitstorm. Prices are going UP all over
>> the place and we're having shortages of fuel and food.
>
> Its very far from clear how much of that is due
> to brexit and how much of that is due to covid.

Brexit has caused us to have very little resilience all over the economy.
Not being in the EU has happened our recovery and will continue cause
problems that weren't there previously for years to come.

>> Hardly a surprise as we cut ourselves
>> off from the world's largest free market
>
> That hasn’t been cut off.

It's easy for you to say from the other side of the world. The view is very
different here. Why do you think we're planning an FTA with you guys?

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 10/5/2021 3:15 PM, Chris wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Ha!
>>
>> Brexit has been a shitstorm. Prices are going UP all over the place and
>> we're having shortages of fuel and food.
>>
>> Hardly a surprise as we cut ourselves off from the world's largest free
>> market and forced many of the people doing low paid jobs to move away.
>
> Well those that voted for Brexit probably understood full well that it
> would have negative economic consequences,

Ha! They were sold a lie and swallowed it hook, line and sinker. It's all
over the news currently with the pandora papers that wealthy investors who
support the conservative party - who called the referendum - are guilty of
embezzlement and tax evasion on a massive scale. Off shoring regulation was
due to come in in the EU which was a reason why they wanted brexit.

The scandal will disappear, again, and they'll just continue as always. The
government will pretend to do something about it.

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> asked
>> Admittedly the signal suffers inside my own house since it???s brick but when
>> I had Verizon several years ago it was the same story. I had to buy a mini
>> cell tower to receive phone calls. When I switched to T-Mobile they gave me
>> one for free but I stopped using it since WiFi calling is enabled.
>
> Which mini cell tower did you get for Verizon Wireless? For me, even
> outside get "No Service" in my iPhone 12 mini. :(

Hi Ant,
If you get a repeater from Verizon, you need "some" signal to amplify; but
if you get a cell tower, the tower connects to your router so you should
never get "no service" when you're inside your own home no matter how large
your home happens to be.

To Ant and badgolferman, neither of whom are apologists, given we can get to
the level of a normal conversation with nuance of detail, IMHO, also you
should never have to _pay_ for those cell towers for inside your own home.

My point of view to the carriers is...
1. You pay for service in your home
2. You should _get_ that service in your home
3. It's not your fault if their tower is miles away from your home
4. And they _know_ that
5. So it's up to _them_ to make your signal fantastic in your home

Normally, you can "improve" the signal in your own home 3 ways
a. Wi-Fi calling (this is de rigueur as I don't know of any downsides)
b. Cellular towers (these connect to your router and are the most common)
c. Cellular amplifiers (these have two units - a receiver & a repeater)

You know I speak facts when I tell you I have all three in my home (which is
small for the neighborhood where many homes are over 10,000 square feet).

If you have a large home you need more cellular towers inside the house.
But even a small home may need at least one cell tower inside the home.

Just as I have a lot of experience setting up WISP to obtain our Wi-Fi from
miles away due to the peculiar geography of living in mountains far away
from civilization, I've often helped neighbors on all three carriers (AT&T,
T-Mobile, & Verizon) with that five-point argument above, where they
_always_ give them to you for free if you are persistent with them.

It's getting harder to get them for free though...

For example, I told neighbors they could get them for free and one neighbor
asked me to help her so we called T-Mobile together from her phone for her
rather large house (hers is about 12,000 sq feet with a lot of chimneys).

T-Mobile told me during that joint call they no longer give out the cellular
repeaters but now they only give people the mini cellular towers (which
connect to the router).

I'm sure it's hard for you to believe I'm persistent (LOL), but T-Mobile
told her she couldn't have the cell tower for free, and I got on the phone
asking to speak to a supervisor - in the end - after speaking to the
supervisor - they agreed to give her the tower for a $25 deposit on her
credit card where she would get an instant $25 credit on her bill, which was
the best deal I could get for her.

Another neighbor, about 3 months or so ago, on Verizon, had to argue with
them not to charge shipping, but again, they did it for free. I haven't done
AT&T for a while but I suspect they're similar - you just have to be
persistent that it's their fault if you don't have perfect signal, not
yours.

As you know, on an iPhone it's not easy to tell whether you're using the
repeater or the cellular tower inside your home (or if you're using a
cellular tower outside your home), but on Android I can easily tell exactly
which tower is being used (as each has a unique ID), where most of the time
I'm using the femtocell (the phone will use the repeater when the Internet
is down and when I'm in the basement where the repeater unit is located).

On 05/10/2021 20:12, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> Curious how mobile plans around the world compare with mine in the USA.
>
> While I've had all three major carriers in Silicon Valley, I've found them
> to be rather similar in all but in price - where I'm currently on T-Mobile.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg>
>
> *Cost first:*
> I pay about $25/line per month (plus taxes) for a family plan.
> That covers unlimited everything (USA calls, text/mms & data).
> Plus I got a handful of _free_ Android Samsung Galaxy A325G phones.
> Plus a few iPads have the free 200MB/month SIM for life.
> And I recently bought also a 128GB iPhone 12 mini (at about half price).

OK I have Three in the UK (with free phone home and data in most of ROW)
£11/pcm for 8GB, unlimited, infinite txts (I use about 10) + tethering
Three also do free 200MB/pcm SIM for life (they hope you use more).

Your unlimited data deal for a Three SIM only would have a cost that
depends on the length of the contract 1, 12 or 24 months as follows:

1 £26
12 £20
24 £17.50 (as £10 for first six months)

http://www.three.co.uk/Store/SIM/Plans_for_phones

There are penalties if you break out of a contract early. That isn't too
far off the mark since UK £1 == $1 US for most high tech goodies.

Their coverage is OK. O2 has nothing near me. I live in a notspot.
Vodafone possibly have the best UK coverage but I fell out with them.
I only need to walk a few hundred yards into a valley to get nothing.

I also have EE in the UK (better coverage) £6/pcm for 6GB, 600min, inf
The two networks chosen to provide near complete coverage. Strictly one
of them is my wife's phone which often gets used for navigating too.
They are usually more expensive their unlimited data is £40.

<https://shop.ee.co.uk/sim-only/pay-monthly-phones?search=%3A%3AsimoPlanData%3AUnlimited%20Data&CTTag=CT_Sal_ShopHP_P1_SIMO_Q4_2020_1&expandFilter=true>

Be a miracle if that link actually works so here is the root link:

https://shop.ee.co.uk/sim-only/pay-monthly-phones

14GB total data is usually enough these days. Since lockdown it has been
a bit excessive but the contracts I have are cheaper than anything now
on offer. The trend is towards much higher data allowance and 5G now
(for a price). If you don't talk to customer retention at least every
couple of years here you tend to get ripped off.

There are too many people paying through the nose for phones that they
have long since paid off (ie they are out of contract and could have a
new one/better deal). Most tech savvy people are on SIM only deals.

> *Coverage second:*
> I live in the boonies and my coverage everywhere I go is just fine.
> In the past T-Mobile gave me a free cellular tower inside my house.
> T-Mobile also gave me a free cellular repeater because I asked nicely.
> I still have them but I don't need them but they are nice to have.
> When I travel in the USA, my coverage has been just fine AFAICT.
> I have the phone set to free roaming but I don't know when it's used.
> When I travel to Europe, the free roaming covers me just fine.
> (In Europe everything is unlimited except calls are 20 cents/minute.)

In the US EE(UK) is extortionate for everything. Three(UK) is free for
calls home to UK but calls within the USA are relatively expensive.

> *Reliability third:*
> There is no contract and no penalties.
> There isn't even a penalty if you run over data (which you can't).

The way my contracts work is that you pay a rather expensive 1p/MB for
any overrun on data and something similar 2p on voice. I figure that if
you don't occasionally run into charges you are paying too much.

Since Covid started they haven't had a penny extra out of me!

> The free phones do have a 2-year lien (but that's not a big deal).
> My signal never disappears.

Not even in wilderness canyons? They do need something close to line of
sight particularly at the higher frequencies.

> I call them and I get what they call "my own team of experts."
> I never am stuck with conversing with a machine.
> I've switched phones a lot and they let me buy from anywhere any phone.
> I've never had to pay for a SIM card (they send them FedEx for free).

I've bought the odd one for either £1 (nominal) or £10 but they come
with credit on equivalent to what you have paid. You can buy then at the
Supermarket checkout or in Poundshops(clue is in the name). I was a bit
puzzled in the US quite how fiddly it is to buy a network SIM.

When I was travelling a lot in places before Wifi was common I also
bought preloaded Three 3GB & 12GB data SIMs as consumables when they
were on discounted introductory offer.
>
> How does your plan compare with that cost, coverage, & reliability.
> How does anyone's plan compare with T-Mobile as shown above?

Reliability is fine apart from in areas where local topography prevents
the signal from reaching the phone.

> Am I getting a good deal compared to the only three carrier choices?
> AT&T, T-Mobile & Verizon
>
> I'm curious how your mobile plan compares with the one that I have?
> (If you use an MVNO, please state the underlying tower carrier.)

GiffGaff in the UK has quite a following in the tech community.

https://www.giffgaff.com/sim-only-deals

ISTR unlimited data is about £35 there.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> asked
> Your iPhone uses 4G as fallback. And what you wrote here suggests that
> is fairly often the case.

I find it kind of amazing that Joerg is repeatedly arguing _against_ speed.

While you may not _need_ 100Mbps to 600Mbps speeds, to get those speeds for
free (all my Android 5G phones were free, for example), is not a bad thing.

My only "complaint" is all the cellular towers inside my house are 4G so I
actually "can" get better speeds now outside my house (with 5G) than inside.

Up until 5G, it used to be the other way around.
--
In my experience, all three carriers give you a home cell tower for free.

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Robin Goodfellow <Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> wrote
>>>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote
>>
>>>>>> That's within the UK; it used to be the same for calls to/from the EU
>>>>>> before Brexit.
>>>>>
>>>>> It probably still is (and still will be) until you change/renew your
>>>>> contract.
>>>>
>>>> That's interesting that Brexit plays a role, where hopefully it will
>>>> _lower_
>>>> your costs (as costs, in general, tend to go down over time just as the
>>>> device performance & cellular service tends to get better and better
>>>> over
>>>> time with all things in the consumer electronic arena, don't they?).
>>>
>>> Ha!
>>
>>> Brexit has been a shitstorm. Prices are going UP all over
>>> the place and we're having shortages of fuel and food.
>>
>> Its very far from clear how much of that is due
>> to brexit and how much of that is due to covid.

> Brexit has caused us to have very little resilience all over the economy.

That isn't the reason for the problem with HGV drivers.

> Not being in the EU has happened our recovery

Corse the virus has nothing to do with that eh ?

> and will continue cause problems that weren't
> there previously for years to come.

But will fix the problem with the UK being stuck
with any EU citizen that decides that their prospects
in the UK are better than where they are coming from.

>>> Hardly a surprise as we cut ourselves
>>> off from the world's largest free market

>> That hasn’t been cut off.

> It's easy for you to say from the other side of the world.

Easy for anyone in the entire world with access to the data
to realise that the UK has not been cut off from the EU.

> The view is very different here.

Bullshit it is on that particular claim.

> Why do you think we're planning an FTA with you guys?

Because that is now possible and wasn’t before, stupid.

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote
> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote
>> Chris wrote

>>> Ha!

>>> Brexit has been a shitstorm. Prices are going UP all over
>>> the place and we're having shortages of fuel and food.

>>> Hardly a surprise as we cut ourselves off from the world's largest free
>>> market and forced many of the people doing low paid jobs to move away.

>> Well those that voted for Brexit probably understood full
>> well that it would have negative economic consequences,

And real upsides too.

> Ha! They were sold a lie and swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

In reality they got what most of them decided that they wanted,
the UK being free to decide what it wanted to do about a whole
raft of issues and be able to give those who decided how things
should be done the bums rush at the ballot box if they decided
that they had fucked up spectacularly. Not possible with the
unelected shiny bums deciding policy in the EU.

> It's all over the news currently with the pandora papers that wealthy
> investors who support the conservative party - who called the referendum
> - are guilty of embezzlement and tax evasion on a massive scale.

Corse nothing like that happened with Blair etc eh ?

> Off shoring regulation was due to come in in the
> EU which was a reason why they wanted brexit.

Even sillier than you usually manage and that’s saying something.

> The scandal will disappear, again, and they'll just continue as always.

Yep, Starmer is doing it right now.

> The government will pretend to do something about it.

Blair didn’t even do that, just got his snout in the trough.