Due to some planned but notified-us-at-short-notice maintenance on the
electricity supply today, I noticed that a battery in a personal
workstation had gone bad and thus doesn't know what to boot after the
power came back on. Had I had more notice I would have thought of this
and found my notes. :-(

At the moment there is only a serial connection (VT320), no graphics
terminal. I know that that is sufficient to set it to boot VMS, but F2
doesn't bring me into the setup.

Does anyone remember or can can anyone point me to instructions on how
to get into the setup of a PWS via a serial terminal? And, once there,
what do I need to do to get it to boot VMS? (I might remember once I'm
there and/or find my notes, but it would be quicker if someone has some
pointers.)

> Does anyone remember or can can anyone point me to instructions on how
> to get into the setup of a PWS via a serial terminal? [...]

Which "PWS" model?

My dim/unreliable recollection is that (with the dead Li cell) it
defaults to the AlphaBIOS console, and you'd need a non-serial console
connection to get it back to the SRM. I believe that I found (stumbled
into) that option once, long ago. Where, exactly, in the AlphaBIOS
menus, I don't recall.

Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> Due to some planned but notified-us-at-short-notice maintenance on the
> electricity supply today, I noticed that a battery in a personal
> workstation had gone bad and thus doesn't know what to boot after the
> power came back on. Had I had more notice I would have thought of this
> and found my notes. :-(

my notes say:

1. Replace battery
2. In the AlphaBios setup, press F2 to choose CMOS setup
3. Choose F6 for "advanced setup", this allows to select SRM console
4. Press F10 to save the changes and PowerOff/On

In article <11ca43ed-6375-426a-b9fb-c1ea77384779n@googlegroups.com>,
Steven Schweda <sms.antinode@gmail.com> writes:

> > Does anyone remember or can can anyone point me to instructions on how
> > to get into the setup of a PWS via a serial terminal? [...]
>
> Which "PWS" model?

433au. My recollection is that all "au" models are the same on this
point.

> My dim/unreliable recollection is that (with the dead Li cell) it
> defaults to the AlphaBIOS console,

Right.

> and you'd need a non-serial console
> connection to get it back to the SRM.

While powering up, at first nothing was visible on the serial console,
then the standard stuff appeared (time invalid, no OS selected, press F2
to enter setup, etc.). I'm pretty sure that I once accessed that from a
serial console, but perhaps my memory (wetware) is failing.

> I believe that I found (stumbled
> into) that option once, long ago. Where, exactly, in the AlphaBIOS
> menus, I don't recall.

Once I get into the setup I can find it.

In article <jcsrvdF97deU1@mid.individual.net>, "Michael Kraemer @ home"
<M.Kraemer@gsi.de> writes:

> Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> > Due to some planned but notified-us-at-short-notice maintenance on the
> > electricity supply today, I noticed that a battery in a personal
> > workstation had gone bad and thus doesn't know what to boot after the
> > power came back on. Had I had more notice I would have thought of this
> > and found my notes. :-(
>
> my notes say:
>
> 1. Replace battery
> 2. In the AlphaBios setup, press F2 to choose CMOS setup
> 3. Choose F6 for "advanced setup", this allows to select SRM console
> 4. Press F10 to save the changes and PowerOff/On

That's correct, and works fine from a graphics console. IIRC there was
some trick to get the menu working in the serial console. But maybe
MMINLWC (my memory is no longer working correctly).

On 4/27/2022 9:28 AM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> In article <jcsrvdF97deU1@mid.individual.net>, "Michael Kraemer @ home"
> <M.Kraemer@gsi.de> writes:
>> Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>>> Due to some planned but notified-us-at-short-notice maintenance on the
>>> electricity supply today, I noticed that a battery in a personal
>>> workstation had gone bad and thus doesn't know what to boot after the
>>> power came back on. Had I had more notice I would have thought of this
>>> and found my notes. :-(
>>
>> my notes say:
>>
>> 1. Replace battery
>> 2. In the AlphaBios setup, press F2 to choose CMOS setup
>> 3. Choose F6 for "advanced setup", this allows to select SRM console
>> 4. Press F10 to save the changes and PowerOff/On
>
> That's correct, and works fine from a graphics console. IIRC there was
> some trick to get the menu working in the serial console. But maybe
> MMINLWC (my memory is no longer working correctly).

I had a 433au but I do not remember ever doing this. For a different
Alpha model I specifically recalled having to get a VGA monitor
attached to do some stuff.

And it sort of makes sense. AlphaBIOS = Windows NT, SRM = VMS or Tru64.
Windows NT does not support VT terminals.

Arne

In article <62694adb$0$703$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
=?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:

> >> 1. Replace battery
> >> 2. In the AlphaBios setup, press F2 to choose CMOS setup
> >> 3. Choose F6 for "advanced setup", this allows to select SRM console
> >> 4. Press F10 to save the changes and PowerOff/On
> >
> > That's correct, and works fine from a graphics console. IIRC there was
> > some trick to get the menu working in the serial console. But maybe
> > MMINLWC (my memory is no longer working correctly).
>
> I had a 433au but I do not remember ever doing this. For a different
> Alpha model I specifically recalled having to get a VGA monitor
> attached to do some stuff.
>
> And it sort of makes sense. AlphaBIOS = Windows NT, SRM = VMS or Tru64.
> Windows NT does not support VT terminals.

Hmmm. Pulled the video cable from an AS1200/DS5000, connected it to the
PWS, cycled the power, and got a message saying "analog input; cannot
display this video mode". The 1200 has a similar if not identical
graphics card. Of course, at some point I probably set the console to
SRM. After that, it defaults to serial mode. However, it then
provides, on the VGA, a translation between AlphaBIOS and VT220. F2--F6
are ^B--^F, F7 is ^P, F8 is ^R, F9 is ^T, F10 is ^U, INSERT is ^V,
DELETE is ^W, BACKSPACE is ^H, and ESC is ^[ (^ is CTRL). That works.
So ^B ^F gets me to the proper menu, and I can move to the correct item
with TAB. BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE NO WAY TO SELECT IT!!!

It says "Press or to select the firmware console that will be
presented the next time the system is power-cycled". Obviously, in the
wide spaces something is missing. If I knew what is missing, I might be
able to enter it.

Any ideas?

Any idea why the video monitor doesn't work?

In article <t4bk07$3k5$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply))
writes:

> Hmmm. Pulled the video cable from an AS1200/DS5000, connected it to the
> PWS, cycled the power, and got a message saying "analog input; cannot
> display this video mode". The 1200 has a similar if not identical
> graphics card. Of course, at some point I probably set the console to
> SRM. After that, it defaults to serial mode. However, it then
> provides, on the VGA, a translation between AlphaBIOS and VT220. F2--F6
> are ^B--^F, F7 is ^P, F8 is ^R, F9 is ^T, F10 is ^U, INSERT is ^V,
> DELETE is ^W, BACKSPACE is ^H, and ESC is ^[ (^ is CTRL). That works.
> So ^B ^F gets me to the proper menu, and I can move to the correct item
> with TAB. BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE NO WAY TO SELECT IT!!!
>
> It says "Press or to select the firmware console that will be
> presented the next time the system is power-cycled". Obviously, in the
> wide spaces something is missing. If I knew what is missing, I might be
> able to enter it.

Seems strange that they would actually support the console on a serial
terminal but provide no method of actually selecting an item or changing
anything.

There must be a way.

Still wondering why the video monitor doesn't work.

In article <t4bkia$b4e$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply))
writes:

> Still wondering why the video monitor doesn't work.

Monitor is a DELL 1905FP which I have used with a wide variety of VMS
systems, but possibly never with a PWS.

I could try to move a big glass monitor nearer the PWS on a high shelf,
or vice versa, but there must be a simpler way.

In article <t4bkmt$dhi$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply))
writes:

> In article <t4bkia$b4e$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply))
> writes:
>
> > Still wondering why the video monitor doesn't work.
>
> Monitor is a DELL 1905FP which I have used with a wide variety of VMS
> systems, but possibly never with a PWS.
>
> I could try to move a big glass monitor nearer the PWS on a high shelf,
> or vice versa, but there must be a simpler way.

OK, after a few power cycles, sometimes the error message appears,
sometimes not. When it didn't, I could get into the setup. Only
problem is that there is no ESC key (^[ doesn't do it). Got things
fixed. When I booted, the graphics console asked me for date and time
(as usual when the battery is dead), but the keyboard couldn't enter it.
Strange. OK, unplugged keyboard and video cable and booted and am now
back to the serial console.

OK. Not sure why the startup is so slow, but things seem to be working
fine again. (Perhaps the fact that I'm not using the fastest hardware I
have is a factor!)

Interestingly, according to OPERATOR.LOG there was a full shadow copy
(not minicopy) of a 36-GB disk, but it took only a few seconds. Never
seen that before. Things were shut down properly. There was definitely
activity on the disk after the other two nodes came up.

What happened?

Could it be that bitmaps were created when the other two nodes booted
and the full copy was actually only a minicopy?

On 04/27/22 16:25, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> OK. Not sure why the startup is so slow, but things seem to be working
> fine again. (Perhaps the fact that I'm not using the fastest hardware I
> have is a factor!)
>
> Interestingly, according to OPERATOR.LOG there was a full shadow copy
> (not minicopy) of a 36-GB disk, but it took only a few seconds. Never
> seen that before. Things were shut down properly. There was definitely
> activity on the disk after the other two nodes came up.
>
> What happened?
>
> Could it be that bitmaps were created when the other two nodes booted
> and the full copy was actually only a minicopy?
>

My guess would be that the video monitor may not respond to serial port
input, that is, either serial port or kbd / monitor modes, not both. It
may default to serial port if no keyboard detected...

Chris

In article <t4bone$f31$1@gioia.aioe.org>, chris
<chris-nospam@tridac.net> writes:

> On 04/27/22 16:25, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> > OK. Not sure why the startup is so slow, but things seem to be working
> > fine again. (Perhaps the fact that I'm not using the fastest hardware I
> > have is a factor!)
> >
> > Interestingly, according to OPERATOR.LOG there was a full shadow copy
> > (not minicopy) of a 36-GB disk, but it took only a few seconds. Never
> > seen that before. Things were shut down properly. There was definitely
> > activity on the disk after the other two nodes came up.
> >
> > What happened?
> >
> > Could it be that bitmaps were created when the other two nodes booted
> > and the full copy was actually only a minicopy?
> >
>
> My guess would be that the video monitor may not respond to serial port
> input, that is, either serial port or kbd / monitor modes, not both. It
> may default to serial port if no keyboard detected...

I had indeed forgotten to connect the keyboard the first time I saw it,
but after I had connected it, sometimes it was there and sometimes not.

On 4/27/2022 4:19 PM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> In article <t4bone$f31$1@gioia.aioe.org>, chris
> <chris-nospam@tridac.net> writes:
>> On 04/27/22 16:25, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>>> OK. Not sure why the startup is so slow, but things seem to be working
>>> fine again. (Perhaps the fact that I'm not using the fastest hardware I
>>> have is a factor!)
>>>
>>> Interestingly, according to OPERATOR.LOG there was a full shadow copy
>>> (not minicopy) of a 36-GB disk, but it took only a few seconds. Never
>>> seen that before. Things were shut down properly. There was definitely
>>> activity on the disk after the other two nodes came up.
>>>
>>> What happened?
>>>
>>> Could it be that bitmaps were created when the other two nodes booted
>>> and the full copy was actually only a minicopy?
>>>
>>
>> My guess would be that the video monitor may not respond to serial port
>> input, that is, either serial port or kbd / monitor modes, not both. It
>> may default to serial port if no keyboard detected...
>
> I had indeed forgotten to connect the keyboard the first time I saw it,
> but after I had connected it, sometimes it was there and sometimes not.

It is a long time since that PWS rolled off the assembly line ...

:-)

Arne

In article <t4bna1$1lkl$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply))
writes:

> OK. Not sure why the startup is so slow, but things seem to be working
> fine again. (Perhaps the fact that I'm not using the fastest hardware I
> have is a factor!)

Went to my Norwegian course, came back, and startup was still hung.
Rebooted the machine. There was enough connectivity that I could do
SHOW SYSTEM/NODE and see what was going on. Noticed LANACP eating all
of the CPU. Was able to kill the process, which died right away, and
then things continued, apparently completely normal.

Something to investigate on a rainy day.

In article <6269a5c3$0$696$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
=?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:

> It is a long time since that PWS rolled off the assembly line ...

Indeed; about a quarter of a century. But runs fine and if it dies I
have replacements which I can swap in.

I'm still using a Nokia 3330. One of my children needs a mobile phone
but not a smartphone. I thought that I could pick up a used 3330 (or
3310) cheap, but it isn't as easy as I thought---I should have picked up
a few 3--4 years ago. For less money than the 3330 can be found for
used, one can by a new one, such as the 107. Essentially the same
functionality as the 3330, but more modern and so on.

But it's flimsy. No way it would last 20 years, even if someone like
myself (a careful user) was using it.

What new computer hardware today will still be running in 20 years?

On 2022-04-27, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) <helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de> wrote:
>
> I'm still using a Nokia 3330. One of my children needs a mobile phone
> but not a smartphone. I thought that I could pick up a used 3330 (or
> 3310) cheap, but it isn't as easy as I thought---I should have picked up
> a few 3--4 years ago. For less money than the 3330 can be found for
> used, one can by a new one, such as the 107. Essentially the same
> functionality as the 3330, but more modern and so on.
>

How long will the 2G and 3G networks continue to be supported in
Germany ?

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 2022-04-27, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) <helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de> wrote:
> In article <t4bna1$1lkl$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply))
> writes:
>
>> OK. Not sure why the startup is so slow, but things seem to be working
>> fine again. (Perhaps the fact that I'm not using the fastest hardware I
>> have is a factor!)
>
> Went to my Norwegian course, came back, and startup was still hung.

Moving to Norway, Phillip ? :-)

> Rebooted the machine. There was enough connectivity that I could do
> SHOW SYSTEM/NODE and see what was going on. Noticed LANACP eating all
> of the CPU. Was able to kill the process, which died right away, and
> then things continued, apparently completely normal.
>

Any errors logged ?

If so, anything useful in the error log ?

Anything useful in operator.log ?

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

In article <t4ckbo$6un$2@dont-email.me>, Simon Clubley
<clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> writes:

> On 2022-04-27, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) <helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de> wrote:
> >
> > I'm still using a Nokia 3330. One of my children needs a mobile phone
> > but not a smartphone. I thought that I could pick up a used 3330 (or
> > 3310) cheap, but it isn't as easy as I thought---I should have picked up
> > a few 3--4 years ago. For less money than the 3330 can be found for
> > used, one can by a new one, such as the 107. Essentially the same
> > functionality as the 3330, but more modern and so on.
> >
>
> How long will the 2G and 3G networks continue to be supported in
> Germany ?

Well, my phone still works, while those with newer (but still old)
protocols don't. Why were they switched off and the older ones not?
Bandwidth. My guess is that the Nokia 3310 and so on will continue to
work at least as long as I live. The bandwidth is negligible, so why
switch it off? Also, all new cars are required to have an automatic
emergency notification. Things like that, and SMS in various
applications, are widely used and use negligible resources.

Phillip Helbig wrote:

> all new cars are required to have an automatic emergency notification.

Which my German car does using an LTE modem.

Simon Clubley schrieb am 28.04.2022 um 01:45:
> On 2022-04-27, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) <helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de> wrote:
>> In article <t4bna1$1lkl$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>> helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply))
>> writes:
>>
>>> OK. Not sure why the startup is so slow, but things seem to be working
>>> fine again. (Perhaps the fact that I'm not using the fastest hardware I
>>> have is a factor!)
>>
>> Went to my Norwegian course, came back, and startup was still hung.
>
> Moving to Norway, Phillip ? :-)

Probably to pick up some hardware...

Hans :-)

> [...]

In article <jcvk51Fp8okU1@mid.individual.net>, Hans Bachner
<hans@bachner.priv.at> writes:

> Simon Clubley schrieb am 28.04.2022 um 01:45:
> > On 2022-04-27, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) <helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de> wrote:
> >> In article <t4bna1$1lkl$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> >> helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply))
> >> writes:
> >>
> >>> OK. Not sure why the startup is so slow, but things seem to be working
> >>> fine again. (Perhaps the fact that I'm not using the fastest hardware I
> >>> have is a factor!)
> >>
> >> Went to my Norwegian course, came back, and startup was still hung.
> >
> > Moving to Norway, Phillip ? :-)
>
> Probably to pick up some hardware...

No, but I've been there a few times, and indeed once to pick up some
hardware. :-)