When you post using mixmin at 563, the strangest things are happeneing.
If you don't post using mixmin, you won't understand.
But if you do, what's up with that?
It's just weird what's happening.

On Feb 2, 2023 at 10:09:59 AM CST, "Ken Blake" <kenneth@blake.net> wrote:

> When you post using mixmin at 563, the strangest things are happeneing.
> If you don't post using mixmin, you won't understand.
> But if you do, what's up with that?
> It's just weird what's happening.

Now I'm curious, define "the strangest things"...

On Thu, 2 Feb 2023 16:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Jesse Rehmer wrote:

> Now I'm curious, define "the strangest things"...

I've been using mixmin for quite a number of years.
Usually, when it fails, the certificate expires for a few days.
But this is a way different kind of failure.

More incomprehensible.

It's not the same as what's happening with aioe lately.
That's for sure.

To test
1. Set up mixmin on your newsreader (news.mixmin.net:563)
2. Post a normal message using your newsreader to this ng
3. It will appear to have been sent but it is NOT posted

You can check the posting with either your newsserver or
using Google Groups archival URLs for the Usenet newsgroups.
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.free.newsservers

Over time, you try again, and again a few times. Same result.
Hmm. You maybe change the IP address (via VPN). Same result.
You even change both the userid & IP address. Same result.

Assuming an aoio-like banlist, you change the newsgroup.
Assuming a bofh-like badword, you modify the message body.
Same result in every trial and tribulation you can think of.

You think it must be just you, so you ask on the ng if it is.
Nobody gives you any information even as it's trivial to test.

You pensively conclude (wrongly, as it turns out), that it's gone.
You incorrectly conclude that your posts have disappeared forever.

But wait.
They didn't disappear.

At least not all of them.
Days later, _some_ of the posts finally show up.

But only some.
Randomly.

That is, if you sent three messages on day 1, none were posted on day one,
and maybe message 2 gets posted by day 5 and maybe message 3 gets posted on
day six, but message 1 never was posted to this newsgroup (a.f.n).

Same thing with any newsgroup, so it's not the group either.
It's just weird.

As I said, you wouldn't understand unless you actually use mixmin.
Mixmin used to be rather reliable - but now - it's acting weird.

On 2/2/2023 11:54 AM, Jesse Rehmer wrote:
> On Feb 2, 2023 at 10:09:59 AM CST, "Ken Blake" <kenneth@blake.net> wrote:
>
>> When you post using mixmin at 563, the strangest things are happeneing.
>> If you don't post using mixmin, you won't understand.
>> But if you do, what's up with that?
>> It's just weird what's happening.
>
> Now I'm curious, define "the strangest things"...
>

********************** MIXMIN needs help help!!! *****************************
400 Interrupted system call writing creating overview file -- throttling
Connection closed by foreign host.
********************** MIXMIN needs help help!!! *****************************

This is what fight club looks like. Nobody talks about fight club.

pathtmp: /var/tmp
pathspool: /var/spool/news
patharticles: /var/spool/news/articles
pathoverview: /var/spool/news/overview
pathoutgoing: /var/spool/news/outgoing
pathincoming: /var/spool/news/incoming
patharchive: /var/spool/news/archive
pathuniover: /var/spool/news/uniover

steve@mixmin.net # as located in a github

Paul

On Feb 2, 2023 at 3:04:49 PM CST, "Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On 2/2/2023 11:54 AM, Jesse Rehmer wrote:
>> On Feb 2, 2023 at 10:09:59 AM CST, "Ken Blake" <kenneth@blake.net> wrote:
>>
>>> When you post using mixmin at 563, the strangest things are happeneing.
>>> If you don't post using mixmin, you won't understand.
>>> But if you do, what's up with that?
>>> It's just weird what's happening.
>>
>> Now I'm curious, define "the strangest things"...
>>
>
> ********************** MIXMIN needs help help!!! *****************************
> 400 Interrupted system call writing creating overview file -- throttling
> Connection closed by foreign host.
> ********************** MIXMIN needs help help!!! *****************************

He's rebuilding his overview, probably had server issue, maybe had to restore
from backups or similar.

On 02 Feb 2023, Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> posted
some news:tri5bq$1dpe$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com:

> On Feb 2, 2023 at 3:04:49 PM CST, "Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/2/2023 11:54 AM, Jesse Rehmer wrote:
>>> On Feb 2, 2023 at 10:09:59 AM CST, "Ken Blake" <kenneth@blake.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> When you post using mixmin at 563, the strangest things are
>>>> happeneing. If you don't post using mixmin, you won't understand.
>>>> But if you do, what's up with that?
>>>> It's just weird what's happening.
>>>
>>> Now I'm curious, define "the strangest things"...
>>>
>>
>> ********************** MIXMIN needs help help!!!
>> ***************************** 400 Interrupted system call writing
>> creating overview file -- throttling Connection closed by foreign
>> host. ********************** MIXMIN needs help help!!!
>> *****************************
>
> He's rebuilding his overview, probably had server issue, maybe had to
> restore from backups or similar.

For seven days now? Did he have it backed up on floppies?

On Feb 3, 2023 at 2:47:21 AM CST, "landis" <overserved@clubhouse.com> wrote:

> On 02 Feb 2023, Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> posted
> some news:tri5bq$1dpe$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com:
>
>> On Feb 2, 2023 at 3:04:49 PM CST, "Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/2/2023 11:54 AM, Jesse Rehmer wrote:
>>>> On Feb 2, 2023 at 10:09:59 AM CST, "Ken Blake" <kenneth@blake.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> When you post using mixmin at 563, the strangest things are
>>>>> happeneing. If you don't post using mixmin, you won't understand.
>>>>> But if you do, what's up with that?
>>>>> It's just weird what's happening.
>>>>
>>>> Now I'm curious, define "the strangest things"...
>>>>
>>>
>>> ********************** MIXMIN needs help help!!!
>>> ***************************** 400 Interrupted system call writing
>>> creating overview file -- throttling Connection closed by foreign
>>> host. ********************** MIXMIN needs help help!!!
>>> *****************************
>>
>> He's rebuilding his overview, probably had server issue, maybe had to
>> restore from backups or similar.
>
> For seven days now? Did he have it backed up on floppies?

Why don't you just e-mail Steve and ask? If you can provide superior services
and uptime, do it.

On 02 Feb 2023, Ken Blake <kenneth@blake.net> posted some
news:trh1rf$271k6$1@paganini.bofh.team:

> On Thu, 2 Feb 2023 16:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Jesse Rehmer wrote:
>
>> Now I'm curious, define "the strangest things"...
>
> I've been using mixmin for quite a number of years.
> Usually, when it fails, the certificate expires for a few days.
> But this is a way different kind of failure.
>
> More incomprehensible.
>
> It's not the same as what's happening with aioe lately.
> That's for sure.
>
> To test
> 1. Set up mixmin on your newsreader (news.mixmin.net:563)
> 2. Post a normal message using your newsreader to this ng
> 3. It will appear to have been sent but it is NOT posted
>
> You can check the posting with either your newsserver or
> using Google Groups archival URLs for the Usenet newsgroups.
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.free.newsservers
>
> Over time, you try again, and again a few times. Same result.
> Hmm. You maybe change the IP address (via VPN). Same result.
> You even change both the userid & IP address. Same result.
>
> Assuming an aoio-like banlist, you change the newsgroup.
> Assuming a bofh-like badword, you modify the message body.
> Same result in every trial and tribulation you can think of.
>
> You think it must be just you, so you ask on the ng if it is.
> Nobody gives you any information even as it's trivial to test.
>
> You pensively conclude (wrongly, as it turns out), that it's gone.
> You incorrectly conclude that your posts have disappeared forever.
>
> But wait.
> They didn't disappear.
>
> At least not all of them.
> Days later, _some_ of the posts finally show up.
>
> But only some.
> Randomly.
>
> That is, if you sent three messages on day 1, none were posted on day
> one, and maybe message 2 gets posted by day 5 and maybe message 3 gets
> posted on day six, but message 1 never was posted to this newsgroup
> (a.f.n).
>
> Same thing with any newsgroup, so it's not the group either.
> It's just weird.
>
> As I said, you wouldn't understand unless you actually use mixmin.
> Mixmin used to be rather reliable - but now - it's acting weird.

It's just constipated. Needs a good firehose enema like the ones Nadegda
gets.

Time to trigger the right-wing snowflakes again. Melt, snowflakes, melt!
On Fri, 03 Feb 2023 22:08:49 +0000, Rafa wrote:

> On 02 Feb 2023, Ken Blake <kenneth@blake.net> posted some
> news:trh1rf$271k6$1@paganini.bofh.team:
>
>> On Thu, 2 Feb 2023 16:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Jesse Rehmer wrote:
>>
>>> Now I'm curious, define "the strangest things"...
>>
>> I've been using mixmin for quite a number of years.
>> Usually, when it fails, the certificate expires for a few days.
>> But this is a way different kind of failure.
>>
>> More incomprehensible.
>>
>> It's not the same as what's happening with aioe lately.
>> That's for sure.
>>
>> To test
>> 1. Set up mixmin on your newsreader (news.mixmin.net:563)
>> 2. Post a normal message using your newsreader to this ng
>> 3. It will appear to have been sent but it is NOT posted
>>
>> You can check the posting with either your newsserver or
>> using Google Groups archival URLs for the Usenet newsgroups.
>> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.free.newsservers
>>
>> Over time, you try again, and again a few times. Same result.
>> Hmm. You maybe change the IP address (via VPN). Same result.
>> You even change both the userid & IP address. Same result.
>>
>> Assuming an aoio-like banlist, you change the newsgroup.
>> Assuming a bofh-like badword, you modify the message body.
>> Same result in every trial and tribulation you can think of.
>>
>> You think it must be just you, so you ask on the ng if it is.
>> Nobody gives you any information even as it's trivial to test.
>>
>> You pensively conclude (wrongly, as it turns out), that it's gone.
>> You incorrectly conclude that your posts have disappeared forever.
>>
>> But wait.
>> They didn't disappear.
>>
>> At least not all of them.
>> Days later, _some_ of the posts finally show up.
>>
>> But only some.
>> Randomly.
>>
>> That is, if you sent three messages on day 1, none were posted on day
>> one, and maybe message 2 gets posted by day 5 and maybe message 3 gets
>> posted on day six, but message 1 never was posted to this newsgroup
>> (a.f.n).
>>
>> Same thing with any newsgroup, so it's not the group either.
>> It's just weird.
>>
>> As I said, you wouldn't understand unless you actually use mixmin.
>> Mixmin used to be rather reliable - but now - it's acting weird.
>
> It's just constipated. Needs a good firehose enema like the ones Nadegda
> gets.

Pwned much?

<snicker>

Meanwhile, it is certainly suspicious that AIOE and mixmin would be having
problems at the same time, as well as that it is taking more than a few
hours to a day or two to fix both of them. I suspect an orchestrated attack
on free newsservers, or at least on no-registration newsservers ...

--
FNVWe Nadegda

"By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with
you." -- Mike Godwin, Aug 13, 2017, 8:03 PM
Checkmate admits that, for all intents and purposes, he carries a teddy
bear in public: <d6cnes.ket.17.19@news.alt.net>

On 02 Feb 2023, Ken Blake <kenneth@blake.net> posted some
news:trh1rf$271k6$1@paganini.bofh.team:

> On Thu, 2 Feb 2023 16:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Jesse Rehmer wrote:
>
>> Now I'm curious, define "the strangest things"...
>
> I've been using mixmin for quite a number of years.
> Usually, when it fails, the certificate expires for a few days.
> But this is a way different kind of failure.
>
> More incomprehensible.
>
> It's not the same as what's happening with aioe lately.
> That's for sure.
>
> To test
> 1. Set up mixmin on your newsreader (news.mixmin.net:563)
> 2. Post a normal message using your newsreader to this ng
> 3. It will appear to have been sent but it is NOT posted
>
> You can check the posting with either your newsserver or
> using Google Groups archival URLs for the Usenet newsgroups.
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.free.newsservers
>
> Over time, you try again, and again a few times. Same result.
> Hmm. You maybe change the IP address (via VPN). Same result.
> You even change both the userid & IP address. Same result.
>
> Assuming an aoio-like banlist, you change the newsgroup.
> Assuming a bofh-like badword, you modify the message body.
> Same result in every trial and tribulation you can think of.
>
> You think it must be just you, so you ask on the ng if it is.
> Nobody gives you any information even as it's trivial to test.
>
> You pensively conclude (wrongly, as it turns out), that it's gone.
> You incorrectly conclude that your posts have disappeared forever.
>
> But wait.
> They didn't disappear.
>
> At least not all of them.
> Days later, _some_ of the posts finally show up.
>
> But only some.
> Randomly.
>
> That is, if you sent three messages on day 1, none were posted on day
> one, and maybe message 2 gets posted by day 5 and maybe message 3 gets
> posted on day six, but message 1 never was posted to this newsgroup
> (a.f.n).
>
> Same thing with any newsgroup, so it's not the group either.
> It's just weird.
>
> As I said, you wouldn't understand unless you actually use mixmin.
> Mixmin used to be rather reliable - but now - it's acting weird.

Zax has been eerily absent. Not like him.

On 02 Feb 2023, Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> posted
some news:trgpt1$1aet$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com:

> On Feb 2, 2023 at 10:09:59 AM CST, "Ken Blake" <kenneth@blake.net>
wrote:
>
>> When you post using mixmin at 563, the strangest things are happeneing.
>> If you don't post using mixmin, you won't understand.
>> But if you do, what's up with that?
>> It's just weird what's happening.
>
> Now I'm curious, define "the strangest things"...

My experience has been several different 400 messages Interrupted system
call when using the onion address. If I use 563 instead, the posts
just vanish.

On 02 Feb 2023, Ken Blake <kenneth@blake.net> posted some
news:trgn8m$25ukt$1@paganini.bofh.team:

> When you post using mixmin at 563, the strangest things are happeneing.
> If you don't post using mixmin, you won't understand.
> But if you do, what's up with that?
> It's just weird what's happening.

My posts just disappear and never show up.

On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 09:07:40 -0000 (UTC), Jesse Rehmer wrote:

> If you can provide superior services
> and uptime, do it.

On that point, I've always wondered "how hard" is it to run an nntp server.

I have, for example, a bunch of extra old Windows desktops and laptops.
Do they run the necessary nntp server software?

Is that stuff free?
Is it easy to set up on Windows?

Or do I need to install Linux on them?
Do I need to let my ISP know?

How hard (or easy?) is it anyway?
I'm sure it's a lot of effort only if I count that almost nobody does it.

But how much effort is it?
And where is all the effort?

For example it could all be in customer support.
Or in defending against spammers.
Or whatever.

On Feb 3, 2023 at 11:55:25 PM CST, "Ken Blake" <kenneth@blake.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 09:07:40 -0000 (UTC), Jesse Rehmer wrote:
>
>> If you can provide superior services
>> and uptime, do it.
>
> On that point, I've always wondered "how hard" is it to run an nntp server.
>
> I have, for example, a bunch of extra old Windows desktops and laptops.
> Do they run the necessary nntp server software?
>
> Is that stuff free?
> Is it easy to set up on Windows?
>
> Or do I need to install Linux on them?
> Do I need to let my ISP know?
>
> How hard (or easy?) is it anyway?
> I'm sure it's a lot of effort only if I count that almost nobody does it.
>
> But how much effort is it?
> And where is all the effort?
>
> For example it could all be in customer support.
> Or in defending against spammers.
> Or whatever.

It is difficult. Usenet server software came from the UNIX world, there may be
some ancient Windows software out there, but its likely not going to work on a
modern version of Windows or it is still commercial.

UNIX/Linux administration skills are necessary and INN and Diablo (the
primarily used server packages still in use) have steep learning curves.
There are no easy out of the box solutions.

You need to arrange peers to exchange articles with or your server will not
receive any news. This also has a learning curve as you need to be able to
filter based on various peer requirements. Some peers won't accept certain
hierarchies, specific groups, binaries, articles larger than a certain size,
etc. You need to be able to configure those parameters in the software you
chose.

Processing control messages (new group creation, group removal, article
cancels, etc.) requires basic understanding of PGP.

You will need to implement authentication and access control (authentication
mechanisms often not "built in" and require external tooling) for NNRP.

Leafnode can be something to look at to get some idea of they work, but its
not quite the same thing as it relies on a single upstream source for all
articles and doesn't have the same concepts of feeds and peers.

You will want to filter for spam, this can be time consuming, requires
understanding of regular expressions and Perl/Python.

If you provide access to your server for other users to post you need to be
vigilant as Usenet servers are commonly abused. If you ignore this and allow
your server to become overrun with spammers eventually your peers will de-peer
with you.

That said, once you've invested the time to implement a server correctly, they
mostly run themselves them that point forward. You may need to deal with abuse
whether from your users or upstream peers who do not filter.

And all the effort is on you. Besides the communities in groups like
news.software.nntp or news.admin.peering, and the INN documentation, there is
very little usable information for beginners online.

Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> wrote in
news:trkves$6ov$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com:

> On Feb 3, 2023 at 11:55:25 PM CST, "Ken Blake" <kenneth@blake.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 09:07:40 -0000 (UTC), Jesse Rehmer wrote:
>>
>>> If you can provide superior services
>>> and uptime, do it.
>>
>> On that point, I've always wondered "how hard" is it to run an nntp
>> server.
>>
>> I have, for example, a bunch of extra old Windows desktops and
>> laptops. Do they run the necessary nntp server software?
>>
>> Is that stuff free?
>> Is it easy to set up on Windows?
>>
>> Or do I need to install Linux on them?
>> Do I need to let my ISP know?
>>
>> How hard (or easy?) is it anyway?
>> I'm sure it's a lot of effort only if I count that almost nobody does
>> it.
>>
>> But how much effort is it?
>> And where is all the effort?
>>
>> For example it could all be in customer support.
>> Or in defending against spammers.
>> Or whatever.
>
> It is difficult. Usenet server software came from the UNIX world,
> there may be some ancient Windows software out there, but its likely
> not going to work on a modern version of Windows or it is still
> commercial.

We ran nntp servers using Windows 2003 in multiple organizations. Worked
well and you can still do it today if you set VMs up using Hyper-V or
ESXi. Very fast, worked quite nicely. We did not use it with Exchange.

I even ran one at home for a while.

> UNIX/Linux administration skills are necessary and INN and Diablo (the
> primarily used server packages still in use) have steep learning
> curves. There are no easy out of the box solutions.
>
> You need to arrange peers to exchange articles with or your server
> will not receive any news. This also has a learning curve as you need
> to be able to filter based on various peer requirements. Some peers
> won't accept certain hierarchies, specific groups, binaries, articles
> larger than a certain size, etc. You need to be able to configure
> those parameters in the software you chose.

A lot of that work for Windows NNTP translated to manually adding the
groups you wanted to carry vs all or general wildcarding. It did add some
extra work.

> Processing control messages (new group creation, group removal,
> article cancels, etc.) requires basic understanding of PGP.
>
> You will need to implement authentication and access control
> (authentication mechanisms often not "built in" and require external
> tooling) for NNRP.
>
> Leafnode can be something to look at to get some idea of they work,
> but its not quite the same thing as it relies on a single upstream
> source for all articles and doesn't have the same concepts of feeds
> and peers.
>
> You will want to filter for spam, this can be time consuming, requires
> understanding of regular expressions and Perl/Python.
>
> If you provide access to your server for other users to post you need
> to be vigilant as Usenet servers are commonly abused. If you ignore
> this and allow your server to become overrun with spammers eventually
> your peers will de-peer with you.
>
> That said, once you've invested the time to implement a server
> correctly, they mostly run themselves them that point forward. You may
> need to deal with abuse whether from your users or upstream peers who
> do not filter.
>
> And all the effort is on you. Besides the communities in groups like
> news.software.nntp or news.admin.peering, and the INN documentation,
> there is very little usable information for beginners online.

Yep, same thing for Windows NNTP. A lot of admins couldn't get the feeds
working and rightfully blamed it on crappy documentation, which in truth
was no documentation. There were workarounds for most of the issues. It
just took a while to figure them out. The really hilarious part was
Windows admins confusing NNTP with NTP.

Ken Blake <kenneth@blake.net> wrote in
news:trh1rf$271k6$1@paganini.bofh.team:

> On Thu, 2 Feb 2023 16:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Jesse Rehmer wrote:
>
>> Now I'm curious, define "the strangest things"...
>
> I've been using mixmin for quite a number of years.
> Usually, when it fails, the certificate expires for a few days.
> But this is a way different kind of failure.
>
> More incomprehensible.
>
> It's not the same as what's happening with aioe lately.
> That's for sure.
>
> To test
> 1. Set up mixmin on your newsreader (news.mixmin.net:563)
> 2. Post a normal message using your newsreader to this ng
> 3. It will appear to have been sent but it is NOT posted
>
> You can check the posting with either your newsserver or
> using Google Groups archival URLs for the Usenet newsgroups.
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.free.newsservers
>
> Over time, you try again, and again a few times. Same result.
> Hmm. You maybe change the IP address (via VPN). Same result.
> You even change both the userid & IP address. Same result.
>
> Assuming an aoio-like banlist, you change the newsgroup.
> Assuming a bofh-like badword, you modify the message body.
> Same result in every trial and tribulation you can think of.
>
> You think it must be just you, so you ask on the ng if it is.
> Nobody gives you any information even as it's trivial to test.
>
> You pensively conclude (wrongly, as it turns out), that it's gone.
> You incorrectly conclude that your posts have disappeared forever.
>
> But wait.
> They didn't disappear.
>
> At least not all of them.
> Days later, _some_ of the posts finally show up.
>
> But only some.
> Randomly.
>
> That is, if you sent three messages on day 1, none were posted on day
> one, and maybe message 2 gets posted by day 5 and maybe message 3 gets
> posted on day six, but message 1 never was posted to this newsgroup
> (a.f.n).
>
> Same thing with any newsgroup, so it's not the group either.
> It's just weird.
>
> As I said, you wouldn't understand unless you actually use mixmin.
> Mixmin used to be rather reliable - but now - it's acting weird.

Look at the date and message id. Starting to smell a rat.

Path:
paganini.bofh.team!news.samoylyk.net!news.szaf.org!weretis.net!feeder8.new
s.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-
september.org!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: kensi <kkensington01@gmail.invalid>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,alt.global-warming,alt.checkmate
Subject: Biden Administration Expected to Approve a "Climate Disaster in
Waiting"
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2023 04:11:30 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Mixmin
Message-ID: <trfd5i$13rnd$2@news.mixmin.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2023 04:11:30 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: news.mixmin.net; posting-
host="100a191890838a3373b80b886d1f6e5ade5f7667"; logging-data="1175277";
mail-complaints-to="abuse@mixmin.net"
User-Agent: NewsTap/5.4.1 (iPad)
Xref: paganini.bofh.team talk.politics.guns:2206975 alt.global-
warming:1041759 alt.checkmate:743488

Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> writes:

> It is difficult. Usenet server software came from the UNIX world, there may be
> some ancient Windows software out there, but its likely not going to work on a
> modern version of Windows or it is still commercial.
>
> UNIX/Linux administration skills are necessary and INN and Diablo (the
> primarily used server packages still in use) have steep learning curves.
> There are no easy out of the box solutions.
>
> You need to arrange peers to exchange articles with or your server will not
> receive any news. This also has a learning curve as you need to be able to
> filter based on various peer requirements. Some peers won't accept certain
> hierarchies, specific groups, binaries, articles larger than a certain size,
> etc. You need to be able to configure those parameters in the software you
> chose.
>
> Processing control messages (new group creation, group removal, article
> cancels, etc.) requires basic understanding of PGP.
>
> You will need to implement authentication and access control (authentication
> mechanisms often not "built in" and require external tooling) for NNRP.
>
> Leafnode can be something to look at to get some idea of they work, but its
> not quite the same thing as it relies on a single upstream source for all
> articles and doesn't have the same concepts of feeds and peers.
>
> You will want to filter for spam, this can be time consuming, requires
> understanding of regular expressions and Perl/Python.
>
> If you provide access to your server for other users to post you need to be
> vigilant as Usenet servers are commonly abused. If you ignore this and allow
> your server to become overrun with spammers eventually your peers will de-peer
> with you.
>
> That said, once you've invested the time to implement a server correctly, they
> mostly run themselves them that point forward. You may need to deal with abuse
> whether from your users or upstream peers who do not filter.
>
> And all the effort is on you. Besides the communities in groups like
> news.software.nntp or news.admin.peering, and the INN documentation, there is
> very little usable information for beginners online.

Perhaps I'll say something that other administators might not like, but
I'll say it anyway. It's not difficult. Or, at least, it shouldn't be,
and it's not if you understand how things are working. It's actually
super simple. NNTP is super simple, and Usenet article format is super
simple.

Most people don't realize how small text Usenet is. 20 mins video on
Youtube is about as big as 24 hours of traffic of text Usenet. Just
think about it: you start driving in your car, you press play on a
playlist in YouTube app on your iPhone, and few hours later, when you
show up at your destination, you already used more traffic than most of
text Usenet servers use in a week. If you let YouTube play music
overnight, it's more traffic than most servers see in a month. In other
words, your phone can handle more Usenet than absolute most of free
Usenet servers are doing right now, including E-S, Individual, Aioe,
etc. Most people that use torrents are consuming more traffic per day
than most Usenet servers are consuming in months, and their computers
are performing more sophisticated computations than most text Usenet
servers are doing.

Of course it's little bit different story if you want to do some
archiving, or if you want to process binary messages, or something like
that. But in general...

Theoretically it should be possible that any of us can carry a Usenet
server in a pocket, installed with one click, and after that it finds
peers itself just like BitTorrent or Tor do, and we won't even notice
the difference when we load our newsreaders. Such software can be using
NNTP itself to exchange public keys and other data, and it can implement
web of trust to deal with potential abusers, and it will be backward-
compatible with normal Usenet servers, and... and it's all just a dream,
lol. Maybe one day... maybe not. Probably not.

Seriously though, even right now the biggest problem with INN is
probably the fact that it requires fully qualified domain name or static
IP to function. But this issue was resolved long time ago in BitTorrent
world, and is not even considered an issue anymore. What *exactly* makes
installing and using INN more complicating than installing and using
uTorrent? In theory, that is?

On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 04:34:33 -0000 (UTC), LO AND BEHOLD; Neodome Admin
<admin@neodome.net> determined that the following was of great
importance and subsequently decided to freely share it with us in
<tuu68n$1rjo$1@neodome.net>:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Jesse Rehmer <jesse.rehmer@blueworldhosting.com> writes:
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= It is difficult. Usenet server software came from the UNIX world, there
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= may be some ancient Windows software out there, but its likely not going
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= to work on a modern version of Windows or it is still commercial.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= UNIX/Linux administration skills are necessary and INN and Diablo (the
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= primarily used server packages still in use) have steep learning curves.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= There are no easy out of the box solutions. You need to arrange peers
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= to exchange articles with or your server will not receive any news.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= This also has a learning curve as you need to be able to filter based
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= on various peer requirements. Some peers won't accept certain
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= hierarchies, specific groups, binaries, articles larger than a certain
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= size, etc. You need to be able to configure those parameters in the
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= software you chose. Processing control messages (new group creation,
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= group removal, article cancels, etc.) requires basic understanding of
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= PGP. You will need to implement authentication and access control
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= (authentication mechanisms often not "built in" and require external
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= tooling) for NNRP. Leafnode can be something to look at to get some
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= idea of they work, but its not quite the same thing as it relies on a
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= single upstream source for all articles and doesn't have the same
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= concepts of feeds and peers. You will want to filter for spam, this can
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= be time consuming, requires understanding of regular expressions and
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Perl/Python. If you provide access to your server for other users to
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= post you need to be vigilant as Usenet servers are commonly abused. If
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= you ignore this and allow your server to become overrun with spammers
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= eventually your peers will de-peer with you. That said, once you've
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= invested the time to implement a server correctly, they mostly run
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= themselves them that point forward. You may need to deal with abuse
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= whether from your users or upstream peers who do not filter. And all
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= the effort is on you. Besides the communities in groups like
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= news.software.nntp or news.admin.peering, and the INN documentation,
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= =?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= there is very little usable information for beginners online.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Perhaps I'll say something that other administators might not like, but
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= I'll say it anyway. It's not difficult. Or, at least, it shouldn't be,
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= and it's not if you understand how things are working. It's actually
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= super simple. NNTP is super simple, and Usenet article format is super
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= simple.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Most people don't realize how small text Usenet is. 20 mins video on
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Youtube is about as big as 24 hours of traffic of text Usenet. Just
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= think about it: you start driving in your car, you press play on a
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= playlist in YouTube app on your iPhone, and few hours later, when you
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= show up at your destination, you already used more traffic than most of
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= text Usenet servers use in a week. If you let YouTube play music
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= overnight, it's more traffic than most servers see in a month. In other
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= words, your phone can handle more Usenet than absolute most of free
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Usenet servers are doing right now, including E-S, Individual, Aioe,
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= etc. Most people that use torrents are consuming more traffic per day
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= than most Usenet servers are consuming in months, and their computers
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= are performing more sophisticated computations than most text Usenet
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= servers are doing.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Of course it's little bit different story if you want to do some
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= archiving, or if you want to process binary messages, or something like
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= that. But in general...
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Theoretically it should be possible that any of us can carry a Usenet
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= server in a pocket, installed with one click, and after that it finds
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= peers itself just like BitTorrent or Tor do, and we won't even notice
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= the difference when we load our newsreaders. Such software can be using
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= NNTP itself to exchange public keys and other data, and it can
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= implement web of trust to deal with potential abusers, and it will be
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= backward- compatible with normal Usenet servers, and... and it's all
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= just a dream, lol. Maybe one day... maybe not. Probably not.
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= Seriously though, even right now the biggest problem with INN is
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= probably the fact that it requires fully qualified domain name or
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= static IP to function. But this issue was resolved long time ago in
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= BitTorrent world, and is not even considered an issue anymore. What
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= *exactly* makes installing and using INN more complicating than
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?= installing and using uTorrent? In theory, that is?
=?UTF-8?B?8J+Ps++4j+KAjfCfjIg=?=

I don't think that's the problem.

--

Golden Killfile, June 2005
KOTM, November 2006
Bob Allisat Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, September 2007
Tony Sidaway Memorial "Drama Queen" Award, November 2006
Busted Urinal Award, April 2007
Order of the Holey Sockpuppet, September 2007
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, September 2006
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, April 2008
Tinfoil Sombrero, February 2007
AUK Mascot, September 2007
Putting the Awards Out of Order to Screw With the OCD Fuckheads, March 2016

On 3/15/23 10:34 PM, Neodome Admin wrote:
> Perhaps I'll say something that other administators might not like, but
> I'll say it anyway. It's not difficult. Or, at least, it shouldn't be,
> and it's not if you understand how things are working. It's actually
> super simple. NNTP is super simple, and Usenet article format is
> super simple.

Either you have first hand experience doing this and can comment as
such, or you don't. Which is it?

I question the authenticity of the email address used to post the
message that I'm replying to. Mostly because I would expect Neodome's
admin to know the things that I'm saying.

> Theoretically it should be possible that any of us can carry a Usenet
> server in a pocket, installed with one click, and after that it finds
> peers itself just like BitTorrent or Tor do, and we won't even notice
> the difference when we load our newsreaders. Such software can be
> using NNTP itself to exchange public keys and other data, and it can
> implement web of trust to deal with potential abusers, and it will
> be backward- compatible with normal Usenet servers, and... and it's
> all just a dream, lol. Maybe one day... maybe not. Probably not.

There are multiple pieces of that, each with different values of current
truth vs future dreams.

> Seriously though, even right now the biggest problem with INN is
> probably the fact that it requires fully qualified domain name or
> static IP to function.

Full stop. That is wrong. INN does not require an FQDN. INN doesn't
even require external IP connectivity.

> But this issue was resolved long time ago in BitTorrent world, and is
> not even considered an issue anymore. What *exactly* makes installing
> and using INN more complicating than installing and using uTorrent? In
> theory, that is?

INN could work without any external IP connectivity before BitTorrent
was a twinkle in it's creator's eye.

Establishing peers and connecting to them is where INN *wants* /but/
/doesn't/ /rquire/ external IP connectivity.

There are multiple ways to transfer articles /without/ IP or an FQDN.

Peer identification is an entirely different, and thusfar manual,
process. I maintain that it should not be fully automatic for a number
of reasons. It could be simplified wihtout making it fully automatic.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

On 3/15/23 23:34, Neodome Admin wrote:

<le sneep>

> Theoretically it should be possible that any of us can carry a Usenet
> server in a pocket, installed with one click, and after that it finds
> peers itself just like BitTorrent or Tor do, and we won't even notice
> the difference when we load our newsreaders. Such software can be using
> NNTP itself to exchange public keys and other data, and it can implement
> web of trust to deal with potential abusers, and it will be backward-
> compatible with normal Usenet servers, and... and it's all just a dream,
> lol. Maybe one day... maybe not. Probably not.
>
> Seriously though, even right now the biggest problem with INN is
> probably the fact that it requires fully qualified domain name or static
> IP to function. But this issue was resolved long time ago in BitTorrent
> world, and is not even considered an issue anymore. What *exactly* makes
> installing and using INN more complicating than installing and using
> uTorrent? In theory, that is?

Your observation on complexity of software applies not only to NNTP but
to a lot of software and protocols.

Some techies want it to be complicated and arcane. Some techies desire a
high bar to entry. Some nerds don't want to release software that just
"works." They want you troubleshooting the install for three days. They
want you troubleshooting the configuration for another three days. They
want you troubleshooting bugs for another three days. They want you
spending two hours composing a patch so it can work on your system. They
want everyone else to waste time patching for each of their unique
systems. They like long-winded, expertly crafted bug reports. They love
giving a one-line answer to these bug reports that took an hour to
compose and verify, so they can with one line of text mark them
irrelevant and send you back to the drawing board. Some nerds enjoy this
asymmetric balance of power and time investment. They are sucking your
time into their power infinity gauntlet.

They want absolutely no improvement or progress on the design of the
protocol and its applications. This way they can live in a dead past era
where nerds were supreme and revered. Nerd supremacy is a fun way to
frustrate people and make them waste their time.

After you spend a lot of time fixing the problems and you finally get
the software to work, the nerd supremacist updates the software and
everything breaks again. They count the regressions like sheep in their
dreams.

If they simply released an application that you execute to install and
run, you would be happy, and that can't be allowed to happen. Releasing
software with needless complexity and pitfalls is a subtle way of
saying, "I rule--because you suffer."

--

nerd suprema.c

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 05:12:25 -0000 (UTC), Colin wrote in
Message-Id: <tri53p$1ilue$3@news.mixmin.net>:

>> I've been using mixmin for quite a number of years.
>> Usually, when it fails, the certificate expires for a few days.
>> But this is a way different kind of failure.
>>
>> More incomprehensible.
INN on Mixmin died when it exhausted its overview buffer space. In the
years I've run it, I don't recall this happening before. Either it's
not or my memory is fading! Anyway, after some consultation with the
excellent manpages I've added 2GB of buffer space and restarted it.
It will probably take a while to catch up with incoming messages.

> Zax has been eerily absent. Not like him.
My job has changed since the days when I could devote a lot of time to
running services. I now depend on the stability of Linux and the
applications I run. I check in now and then and usually find something
needing attention. Apologies for the problems this causes but work,
family and Cooper the dog have to come first. :)

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--
And with glasses high we raised a cry for freedom had arrived

Steve Crook <steve@mixmin.net> wrote:

>>. . .

>My job has changed since the days when I could devote a lot of time to
>running services. I now depend on the stability of Linux and the
>applications I run. I check in now and then and usually find something
>needing attention. Apologies for the problems this causes but work,
>family and Cooper the dog have to come first. :)

Teach the dog to code.

On 19 Mar 2023, Steve Crook <steve@mixmin.net> posted some
news:slrnu1ephd.e3v.steve@fleegle.mixmin.net:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 05:12:25 -0000 (UTC), Colin wrote in
> Message-Id: <tri53p$1ilue$3@news.mixmin.net>:
>
>>> I've been using mixmin for quite a number of years.
>>> Usually, when it fails, the certificate expires for a few days.
>>> But this is a way different kind of failure.
>>>
>>> More incomprehensible.
> INN on Mixmin died when it exhausted its overview buffer space. In the
> years I've run it, I don't recall this happening before. Either it's
> not or my memory is fading! Anyway, after some consultation with the
> excellent manpages I've added 2GB of buffer space and restarted it.
> It will probably take a while to catch up with incoming messages.
>
>> Zax has been eerily absent. Not like him.
> My job has changed since the days when I could devote a lot of time to
> running services. I now depend on the stability of Linux and the
> applications I run. I check in now and then and usually find something
> needing attention. Apologies for the problems this causes but work,
> family and Cooper the dog have to come first. :)

We thank you for your contributions to free and open communication!

On 19/03/2023 19:44, Steve Crook wrote:

> It will probably take a while to catch up with incoming messages.
>

I think it is busted again. Free servers will always be a problem
because people have day time jobs and to keep servers running 24/7 costs
money and for a hobby project, it is not a viable option. You should ask
for donations from free loaders on these newsgroups. say �12 per year
would go a long way IMO if you get 200 users. at least they can cover
the hosting fees and your time could be treated as hobby/charity work!!