The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> asked
> Hierarchical menus are an invention of Satan. An xterm and being
> able to remember the names of various applications, however, solves a
> lot of space problems.

What about being able to do anything on Windows without _any_ menus?

If you're on Windows, you should try this, but it's an aside, but 99.9% of
Windows users do _not_ know this trick (which existed since Win95 days!).

1. Make sure the command you will create doesn't already exist
Win+R > bev
It should look for "bev.exe" & then complain "Windows cannot find bev."

2. Create the "bev" command (it can do anything - we'll just edit a file).
Win+R > regedit
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\
Create a new key named "bev.exe" (yes, I know that file doesn't exist).
Set the default to any file you wish to edit (e.g., a family phone list).
@Default = C:\Users\Bev\Documents\bev.txt (name it whatever you like).

3. Create the file if it doesn't already exist.
Win+R > notepad C:\Users\Bev\Documents\bev.txt

Now you have created a new command that does whatever you want it to do.
Win+R > bev (this will edit that file)

Who needs menus?
You can create a quick command to do _anything_ you like this way.
--
Bear in mind Win10 _never_ lost the classic WinXP pullout menu; people are
stupid so they can't figure out that Microsoft simply _moved_ the location.

On 10/7/2021 1:42 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> Nice app, but it doesn't address the original problem. What was
> needed was an app that separately displays traffic on Wi-fi and on
> cellular. It should also display with network interface is currently
> active and/or the default. One common problem I run into is having
> both wi-fi and cellular data active, but in a location where the
> signal strengths vary and my phone might decide to switch back and
> forth between them. If I wanted to make a large download, it would be
> really nice to know which network interface the phone preferred to
> use. My Data Manager doesn't appear to do any of this.

I have some that warn you when you're going to do a large download over
cellular data.

I haven't been anywhere where, when not moving, the phone switches
between Wi-Fi and cellular data.

I thought that on an earlier Android version you could restrict
background cellular data on an app by app basis, but I don't see that
anymore. And sometimes you want to NOT use Wi-Fi data for certain apps.

On 10/7/2021 4:04 PM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> asked

>> does it tell you when you are being charged for roaming?
>> Probably not.

> 1. T-Mobile USA doesn't charge for roaming, so, for me, that's moot.

When I'm on I-8 near the Mexican border my phone sometimes hooks up to a
Mexican tower. I know because it warns me with a popup advising that my
free roaming doesn't work (even though I'm still in the US)...

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> asked
> I thought that on an earlier Android version you could restrict
> background cellular data on an app by app basis, but I don't see that
> anymore. And sometimes you want to NOT use Wi-Fi data for certain apps.

On my Android 11 phone there is a setting which I hope is also on iOS.
Setting > Connections > Data usage > Mobile data usage
Setting > Connections > Data usage > Wi-Fi data usage

Each, when pressed, brings up a graph of your data usage over time, broken
down into both foreground and background data usage overall for each app.

For each app is the option to allow or disallow background data usage.
Allow background data usage = yes or no
Allow data usage while Data saver is on = yes or no

In addition, the FOSS NetGuard will, also on a per app basis, restrict
access on either wifi or cellular data (or both, as you wish)
as shown in this screenshot I created below on my Android 11 phone.
<https://i.postimg.cc/X7S4T77L/data04.jpg>

If you restrict WiFi for example, for any one app, and that app tries to
access the Internet, the "log Internet access" option will pop up a message.

You can also block specific apps for roaming access only, if you like.
And, you can allow or block specific apps' Internet access in lockdown mode.

You can allow wi-fi access for any given app only when the screen is awake.
You can allow cellular data access for any given app when the screen is on.

The app also logs all the IP addresses of the sites any given app accesses.

If this capability exists for iOS please let us know as I love this app!
<https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard>

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On 7 Oct 2021 19:58:30 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
> >[...]
> >
> >> I went looking for another app that does something similar. I can't
> >> find anything yet. Also, I couldn't find how to get access to the
> >> historical traffic data. I'll see what I can find (later).
> >
> > FWIW, I have been using 'My Data Manager' for several years now and am
> >quite happy with it.
> >
> >'My Data Manager - Data Usage'
> ><https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mobidia.android.mdm>
> >
> >[...]
>
> Nice app, but it doesn't address the original problem.

Yes, I realize(d) that. I was just giving an alternative for the data
management app you were trialling.

> What was
> needed was an app that separately displays traffic on Wi-fi and on
> cellular.

It *does* do that, but not in real time, i.e. you'll have to refresh
the page if you want to follow any changes. It displays (on/off
selectable) usage bars for Mobile, Wi-Fi and Roaming.

> It should also display with network interface is currently
> active and/or the default. One common problem I run into is having
> both wi-fi and cellular data active, but in a location where the
> signal strengths vary and my phone might decide to switch back and
> forth between them. If I wanted to make a large download, it would be
> really nice to know which network interface the phone preferred to
> use. My Data Manager doesn't appear to do any of this.

I think 'Robin Goodfellow' (a.k.a. 'Arlen Holder', a.k.a. ad
infinitum) is just in search for another problem, instead of to a
solution for a real need/want.

He - intentionally? - didn't bother to mention which phone this is
about, but his Samsung phone has 'Intelligent Wi-Fi' which takes care of
these issues (if your willing to enable location service, which he
doesn't want to do 'because' of 'privacy'). Also he has one or more apps
(I probably can look one up if needed), which can enable Mobile or/and
Wi-Fi on a per app basis).

So he does not need to have his 'problem' and you wouldn't have to
have yours, if he was actually being constructive, instead of yet again
sending people on goose chases.

FWIW, My Samsung (Galaxy A51, Android 10/11) phone lies on the table
next to me. If I swipe down from the top, I can confirm that not only is
Wi-Fi switched on, but also connected to the correct network (SSID). So
I know my phone won't use mobile data, unless I allow it to or tell it
to.

On 10/8/2021 6:19 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

<snip>

> FWIW, My Samsung (Galaxy A51, Android 10/11) phone lies on the table
> next to me. If I swipe down from the top, I can confirm that not only is
> Wi-Fi switched on, but also connected to the correct network (SSID). So
> I know my phone won't use mobile data, unless I allow it to or tell it
> to.

The other thing is that most people don't worry too much about data
usage these days. Even most prepaid plans, other than the super-low-cost
prepaid plans like <https://www.ebay.com/itm/133196831828>, include more
mobile data than is typically used in a month. If you're downloading or
uploading a lot of video, high-resolution photos, or offline maps then
it makes sense to use Wi-Fi.

When I see reports on the average amount of mobile data used per person
per month (currently about 7GB in the U.S.) what these reports don't
state is that that number is so high because so few people bother to
even use Wi-Fi when it's available. If you're traveling, using the
hotel's Wi-Fi should also include using a VPN, but how many people
actually do this?

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> asked
> is just in search for another problem, instead of to a
> solution for a real need/want.

The problem is universal even if you don't understand what the problem is.

> He - intentionally? - didn't bother to mention which phone this is

The problem is universal; it doesn't matter _what_ phone a person is using.
> about, but his Samsung phone has 'Intelligent Wi-Fi' which takes care of
> these issues (if your willing to enable location service, which he
> doesn't want to do 'because' of 'privacy').

That will solve nothing.
With all due respect, you clearly don't even understand the problem set.

> Also he has one or more apps
> (I probably can look one up if needed), which can enable Mobile or/and
> Wi-Fi on a per app basis).

I already discussed in detail (with screenshots) why NetGuard doesn't do it.
Again with all respect, you do not understand the problem set at all, Frank.

> So he does not need to have his 'problem' and you wouldn't have to
> have yours, if he was actually being constructive, instead of yet again
> sending people on goose chases.

The only person who _understood_ the problem was Jeff, Frank.
I'm being respectful when I say you don't understand the problem set.

> FWIW, My Samsung (Galaxy A51, Android 10/11) phone lies on the table
> next to me. If I swipe down from the top, I can confirm that not only is
> Wi-Fi switched on, but also connected to the correct network (SSID). So
> I know my phone won't use mobile data, unless I allow it to or tell it
> to.

With all due respect, that isn't even close to the problem set, Frank.
Please don't waste your time trying to solve what you don't yet understand.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> asked
> The other thing is that most people don't worry too much about data
> usage these days.

The problem set is stated very clearly in the SUBJECT line of this thread.
The problem is universal (it's the same problem on an iPhone as on Android).

The problem is universal even if you don't understand what the problem is.
It's no different in purpose than highbeam/lowbeam/foglamp indicators Steve.

Why do you think a car has a highbeam indicator on the dashboard, Steve?
You may think it's there so you can worry about wearing out the bulb, Steve.

But that's not what the highbeam/lowbeam/foglamp indicator is for, Steve.
If that's what you think it is for, then the apps proposed already do that.

They tell you "how long" your phone has been on highbeam/lowbeam/foglamp.
*highbeam/lowbeam/foglamp === wi-fi/cellular/roaming*

But we're not asking how long in a month you used each type of headlight.
What we're asking here is what your headlights are doing instantaneously.

Until someone understands any problem, they can't propose any solution.

Moving on, I've been working on the problem set a bit more though, and I
found something interesting in the Google Play Services Activities...
Jeff - Please take a look at this specific sequence (mine is on Android 11):
Settings > Apps > Your apps > {pick an app} such as "Google Play Services"
When I picked "Google Play Services", somehow (magically?) it listed
below the name of the app a series of start-and-stop dates which _exactly_
coincide with my actual monthly T-Mobile billing cycle.

Huh?

How the heck did it get that information?
Does yours have your _accurate_ billing cycle information also?

A minor question for you (or for anyone) is related to that billing cycle
date which Google Play Services seems to "know" (somehow) magically.

Is your billing cycle correct for your Google Play Services too?
Settings > Apps > Your apps > Google Play Services > Mobile data
--
BTW, press the line for "View app settings" which brings up a
page for "Data usage" which has a blue arrow to select between:
Cellular data usage
Wi-Fi data usage
And at the top right are three dots where you can select "update."

On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 17:58:08 +0000, Robin Goodfellow
<Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> wrote:

>Jeff - Please take a look at this specific sequence (mine is on Android 11):
> Settings > Apps > Your apps > {pick an app} such as "Google Play Services"
> When I picked "Google Play Services", somehow (magically?) it listed
> below the name of the app a series of start-and-stop dates which _exactly_
> coincide with my actual monthly T-Mobile billing cycle.

Too late. In order to totally remove the widget, I had to remove the
application, and then reinstall from scratch without activating the
widget. That reset the billing cycle start date. Also, I don't have
time to do much right now. Locally, we had a 3.5 hr power failure
today. Too many other problem, such as I tried to pay for the pro
version ($5), but Google would not accept my password or fingerprint
for authentication. No reason given. I checked the password and
fingerprint(s) in other apps, and they work. Not sure what happened,
but I might have broken something with my install, uninstall,
reinstall ceremony. Meanwhile, instead of beating this app to death
and trying to reverse engineer where it obtains it's information, I
might spend some time trying to find an alternative. It's a useful
program, but I don't want to spend the time figuring out how to make
it work or what it's doing in the background.

Good luck.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> asked
> In order to totally remove the widget, I had to remove the
> application, and then reinstall from scratch without activating the
> widget. That reset the billing cycle start date.

No problem. But what I'm talking about has _nothing_ to do with the app.
The billing cycle is (apparently) native on Android.
The test I asked is completely independent of any app you've set up.
It's only dependent on Google Play Services being installed (Android 6+).

> Instead of beating this app to death
> and trying to reverse engineer where it obtains it's information, I
> might spend some time trying to find an alternative.

I've been looking myself for an app that tells me instantaneously what the
phone is doing with data on Wi-Fi & Cellular and have tested a few more.

None yet do what is universally needed, which is show unequivocally how much
traffic is going over the cellular & wifi and by which apps at any instant.

> It's a useful
> program, but I don't want to spend the time figuring out how to make
> it work or what it's doing in the background.

While "Data counter widget" is a keeper...

I think you misunderstood the request, as my request has _nothing_ to do
with _any_ app.

It seems the Android OS natively knows my billing cycle
(at least Google Play Services on my phone seems to know it).

No big deal though, as I can check other people's phones.
Settings > Apps > Your apps > Google Play Services > Mobile data

Robin Goodfellow <Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> asked
> I've been looking myself for an app that tells me instantaneously what the
> phone is doing with data on Wi-Fi & Cellular and have tested a few more.

I forgot to mention the app I was testing when I replied a moment ago.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.dieterthiess.ipwidget>

Dunno if it does what we want, but it's a widget that is configurable to
show Wi-Fi and Cellular Data information, so I'm testing it as we speak.

AJL <noemail@none.com> asked
> When I'm on I-8 near the Mexican border my phone sometimes hooks up to a
> Mexican tower. I know because it warns me with a popup advising that my
> free roaming doesn't work (even though I'm still in the US)...

Thanks for letting me know that you get an obvious popup when your phone
wants to connect to a roaming tower near the border between the US & Mexico.

I have two single-press methods that can tell me if I'm roaming:
1. Jeff showed me that Cellular-Z freeware will report roaming connections
2. I created a single-click shortcut to the about-phone roaming Settings

I noticed these NG options as I was looking for roaming realtime indicators.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cH1RPbVL/data05.jpg>

We can turn off roaming on a per-app basis using the NetGuard free firewall.
NetGuard:Settings > Network options > Ignore national roaming = {on/off}
"Do not apply roaming rules when the SIM and mobile
network country are the same."
NetGuard:Settings > Network options > Ignore EU roaming = {on/off}
"Do not apply roaming rules when the SIM and mobile
network country are within the EU (i.e., roam like at home)."

Those who pay for roaming can set the roaming per app off, by default.
NetGuard:Settings > Defaults (white/blacklist) > Block roaming = {on/off}

Back to the original quest, I'm still trying to solve this problem where I
almost never fail, on Android, to do whatever it is that I want to do.

Only after I have Android working, do I even bother trying it on iOS.