Do email programs for Android generally properly handle return receipt
requests? The built-in email program?

I use K-9 but I don't think my recipient does.

On 11/10/2021 00.10, micky wrote:
> Do email programs for Android generally properly handle return receipt
> requests? The built-in email program?
>
> I use K-9 but I don't think my recipient does.
>

It is up to the recipient, both software and human.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

> Do email programs for Android generally properly handle return receipt
> requests? The built-in email program?
>
> I use K-9 but I don't think my recipient does.

What is "properly handle"? For me, and in EVERY e-mail client I've ever
used, there was an option to /*NOT*/ send a receipt. None of the
sender's business whether or not I read their message. That is for
tracking, and violates privacy.

If the e-mail app doesn't have a setting to enable/disable read receipt
requests, don't expect that app to block them. Also, just because a
desktop version of an e-mail app has the option doesn't mean the
Android/iOS version of the e-mail app has the same option.

Although you imply the K-9 app has such an option, I don't see it
listed. https://k9mail.app/documentation/settings/account.html shows
only an option for YOU to add the read receipt header to your outbound
e-mails, which is not the same as ignoring read receipt requests on
inbound e-mails.

With the option missing in your client, you don't know how your client
behaves unless you test. From a different client using a different
account, send an e-mail that added the header requesting the recipient's
client to send a read receipt reply. Then open the test message in your
client. Back in the sending account, if you get a read receipt message,
the other client did not block the read receipt request, and instead
honored it.

As a test, I sent a test message from my desktop client (which lets me
add the Read Receipt option to an individual e-mail which means I don't
have to toggle the global option just for 1 test). It was sent from my
Hotmail account to my Gmail account. When my desktop client read the
message (opened it), no read receipt was sent back to my Hotmail
account. The received test message did have the read receipt header
(Disposition-Notification-To:), but no read receipt message was sent
back by my client from Hotmail back to Gmail. When I read the test
message in the Android Outlook app (by Microsoft) in the Gmail account,
I also didn't get a read receipt message back in my Hotmail account.
Both my desktop email client and the Android Outlook app ignored the
Disposition-Notification-To: header.

I can't test using the Android Gmail app, because I have that configured
to not sync. I don't need more than one e-mail app on my phone checking
for e-mails. If that's the Android email app you use, test if that app
honors or ignores the read receipt header in received e-mails. I also
don't use any e-mail apps bundled on the phone by the phone's maker.
For example, Samsung likes to bundle their own e-mail app on their
phones, so, at a minimum, you start with both Samsung's and Google's
e-mail apps on your phone.

When you send an e-mail with a read receipt request (it is just a
request the receiving client replies with a read receipt), it has the
following header:

Disposition-Notification-To:

When testing, make sure the test e-mail you sent where you added a read
receipt request has this header when the message is received at your
other account. Open the test message in whatever client you want. If
you are testing multiple receiving clients, use IMAP to ensure the test
message remains up on the server for each client to retrieve a copy (POP
can be configured to leave messages on server, but that's not the
default config).

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> micky wrote:
>
>> Do email programs for Android generally properly handle return receipt
>> requests? The built-in email program?
>>
>> I use K-9 but I don't think my recipient does.
>>
>
> It is up to the recipient, both software and human.

Not if the receipient's client is configured to automatically honor the
Disposition-Notification-To header. In that case, the recipient has no
choice, and doesn't even know a read receipt e-mail got sent to the
sender.

Only if upon receiving an e-mail with the Disposition-Notification-To
header and the recipient's client can be configured as follows does the
recipient have control:

- Prompt. The recipient's client prompts the user whether or not to
send a read receipt message back to the sender.
- Ignore. Always ignore any read receipt request.

In desktop e-mail clients, there usually is an option regarding handling
of read receipt requests in received e-mails. However, I haven't yet
see an Android e-mail app that has this setting. Even the one micky
thought would have the Android K-9 app ignore read receipts isn't what
that option is described to do. The option is to select if all or none
of his outbound e-mails included the Disposition-Notification-To header.
It does not control over what the K-9 app does on receiving e-mails with
that header.

The only way to be sure how a client handles read receipt requests is to
test it. If it has the option to honor/prompt/ignore the header then,
great, you have an easy way to know how your client will handle read
receipt requests. Since e-mail apps don't have that option in their
config (they're crippleware compared to robust desktop e-mail programs),
you have to test the behavior of e-mail apps.

On 11/10/2021 01.52, VanguardLH wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> micky wrote:
>>
>>> Do email programs for Android generally properly handle return receipt
>>> requests? The built-in email program?
>>>
>>> I use K-9 but I don't think my recipient does.
>>>
>>
>> It is up to the recipient, both software and human.
>
> Not if the receipient's client is configured to automatically honor the
> Disposition-Notification-To header.

Never seen any such, and if I found out I would uninstall it fast.

....

> The only way to be sure how a client handles read receipt requests is to
> test it.

Of course.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> On 11/10/2021 01.52, VanguardLH wrote:
>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> micky wrote:
>>>
>>>> Do email programs for Android generally properly handle return receipt
>>>> requests? The built-in email program?
>>>>
>>>> I use K-9 but I don't think my recipient does.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It is up to the recipient, both software and human.
>>
>> Not if the receipient's client is configured to automatically honor the
>> Disposition-Notification-To header.
>
> Never seen any such, and if I found out I would uninstall it fast.

Whether the header exists in a message is not your choice. The *sender*
gets to choose whether or not to add the Disposition-Notification-To
header. That header is a request to the recipient's client to send back
a message to notify the message was opened.

Most e-mail clients have a list of messages on the server, or that have
been downloaded from the server. Downloading a message is not opening
it, so the recipient's client does not act on a message that has not yet
been opened. However, most e-mail clients also select a message to view
it, and viewing it is opening it, and then the recipient's client will
send back a new message with the read receipt.

Even if you retrieve a message but do not [pre]view it, so it is just in
the messages list and not in a view pane, and go offline to then open
the message, the recipient's client will send the read receipt the next
time the client is back online. The read receipt is pending until when
the client can next connect to the server. After all, if you're not
using IMAP Push or Exchange (or Gmail API) to get messages from the
server, you are already offline between the polls of your server. The
read receipt would then get sent on the next mail poll.

Every desktop e-mail client I've tried has an overt option on how to
handle read receipt requests, like ignore them, prompt the user if they
want to ignore or honor them, or always send them. I haven't seen an
Android app that has that user-configurable option. If you cannot see a
setting in the Android e-mail app regarding read receipts (that you
receive in incoming messages, not about your outbound e-mails using read
receipts or not), you don't know how that Android app handles read
receipts until you test it.

The lack of the option means the user doesn't know how the app handles
read receipts, and Android apps have so little documentation, if any,
that the user cannot find out through settings or documentation how read
receipts are handled. Apps rarely have all the settings that desktop
programs have; i.e., apps are crippled when compared to desktop progs.
An Android app that had every feature of, say, Outlook in Microsoft 365
for desktop would be a *huge* app. Microsoft's Android Outlook app is
usable, but no where as robust as their Outlook desktop program.
Remember Outlook Express? That was a very "lite" version of Outlook.
Outlook Express had more settings than do Android e-mail apps.

No documentation. No settings showing behavior. All you have left is
to test the Android app to discover its behavior.

On 11/10/2021 05.58, VanguardLH wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 11/10/2021 01.52, VanguardLH wrote:
>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> micky wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Do email programs for Android generally properly handle return receipt
>>>>> requests? The built-in email program?
>>>>>
>>>>> I use K-9 but I don't think my recipient does.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is up to the recipient, both software and human.
>>>
>>> Not if the receipient's client is configured to automatically honor the
>>> Disposition-Notification-To header.
>>
>> Never seen any such, and if I found out I would uninstall it fast.
>
> Whether the header exists in a message is not your choice. The *sender*
> gets to choose whether or not to add the Disposition-Notification-To
> header. That header is a request to the recipient's client to send back
> a message to notify the message was opened.

I didn't say anything about that.

> Most e-mail clients have a list of messages on the server, or that have
> been downloaded from the server. Downloading a message is not opening
> it, so the recipient's client does not act on a message that has not yet
> been opened. However, most e-mail clients also select a message to view
> it, and viewing it is opening it, and then the recipient's client will
> send back a new message with the read receipt.

I didn't say anything about that, either.

> Even if you retrieve a message but do not [pre]view it, so it is just in
> the messages list and not in a view pane, and go offline to then open
> the message, the recipient's client will send the read receipt the next
> time the client is back online. The read receipt is pending until when
> the client can next connect to the server. After all, if you're not
> using IMAP Push or Exchange (or Gmail API) to get messages from the
> server, you are already offline between the polls of your server. The
> read receipt would then get sent on the next mail poll.

I didn't say anything about that, either.

What I said is that I have not seen yet a MUA that honours the return
Disposition-Notification-To header by default and silently, or where
this default can not be changed, and that I would uninstall it fast if I
found out. Of course I have not seen them all.

....

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Am 11.10.21 um 00:10 schrieb micky:
> Do email programs for Android generally properly handle return receipt
> requests? The built-in email program?
>
> I use K-9 but I don't think my recipient does.

I set up mail clients on all platforms to suppress receipts. I
experience them as a coercion.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 11.10.21 um 10:42 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> I didn't say anything about that, either.
>
> What I said is that I have not seen yet a MUA that honours the return
> Disposition-Notification-To header by default and silently, or where
> this default can not be changed, and that I would uninstall it fast if I
> found out. Of course I have not seen them all.

Such a client does not exist, AFAIK. My experience is the same as yours.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 11/10/2021 12.41, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 11.10.21 um 10:42 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>> I didn't say anything about that, either.
>>
>> What I said is that I have not seen yet a MUA that honours the return
>> Disposition-Notification-To header by default and silently, or where
>> this default can not be changed, and that I would uninstall it fast if I
>> found out. Of course I have not seen them all.
>
> Such a client does not exist, AFAIK. My experience is the same as yours.
>

Maybe platforms used inside companies?

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> What I said is that I have not seen yet a MUA that honours the return
> Disposition-Notification-To header by default and silently,
^^^^^^^^^^
Qualification not specifed _______________|

Neither did I say "by default".

> or where this default can not be changed,

Please mention Android e-mail apps that have an option to adjust read
receipt behavior on incoming message. In the Android e-mail apps that
I've tried, their settings are dismally sparse compared to desktop
e-mail clients, and read receipt handling has been a missing option in
Android e-mail apps.

> and that I would uninstall it fast if I found out. Of course I have
> not seen them all.

But MUAs can and do honor the header. And, yes, I have seen it as the
default option ... when the option is available. For MS Outlook, the
default is "Ask each time whether to send a read receipt". The user
sees a prompt to allow or ignore the read receipt request. I use eM
Client, and it's default is the same. That's now. My recollection in
years past when I was using Outlook 2013, or earlier, is the default was
to "Always send a read receipt", and I had to change it. When I
discovered the default was always-send, I didn't like that privacy
breach, so I changed to never-send.

<Aside>
Seems messaging apps are in the same boat as were e-mail clients long
ago. "Nearly every messaging app turns read receipts on by default"
(https://www.wsj.com/articles/read-receipts-ruined-messaging-heres-how-to-turn-them-off-11563714000).
I remember having to disable it in Google's Messages app.
</Aside>

How can you change an option that does not exist? I see the option
(with multiple settings) in desktop OS e-mail clients, but I have not
seen the option in Android e-mail apps. No, I haven't used every
Android e-mail app, but in those that I have used the option is absent,
so the behavior of the app is unknown until tested.

Have you found an Android e-mail app that has the read receipt option
(on how to react to read receipt requests for incoming messages, not on
always/never using read receipts on outbound messages)? Which Android
e-mail app(s) do you use? Does it have an option on how to handle read
receipt requests?

The OP thought the read receipt option in the Android K-9 app was how to
react on read receipts in incoming messages, but the doc page says it is
only about whether or not to use read receipts in all outbound messages
("Checking this requests a read receipt for all outgoing messages.").
So, even the K-9 app doesn't have an option for handling of read
receipts on incoming messages. Know of any Android e-mail apps that do?
An Android e-mail app that had the option would clarify what is its
behavior on read receipts. Lack of the option means you have to test to
know its behavior. For the ones that I've used, desktop e-mail clients
do have this option, so it is obvious what is it behavior (but you could
still test if you don't trust the client honors the setting).

https://www.sentrian.com.au/blog/outlook-quietly-sending-automatic-read-receipts-on-mobile-devices

Luckily that appears to be default behavior when using business-class
Microsoft 365 subscriptions. I don't have business or any other class
of Microsoft 365 services. After testing, I found the Android Outlook
app ignores read receipt requests. However, there is no setting to
change that behavior nor indicate to the user what is the behavior. Had
to test to know.

Yes, I'm curious. Know of any Android e-mail apps that have an option
to affect behavior regarding read receipt requests on incoming messages?

Am 11.10.21 um 13:30 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> On 11/10/2021 12.41, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 11.10.21 um 10:42 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>>> I didn't say anything about that, either.
>>>
>>> What I said is that I have not seen yet a MUA that honours the return
>>> Disposition-Notification-To header by default and silently, or where
>>> this default can not be changed, and that I would uninstall it fast if I
>>> found out. Of course I have not seen them all.
>>
>> Such a client does not exist, AFAIK. My experience is the same as yours.
>>
>
> Maybe platforms used inside companies?

I doubt it. It would probably be against European privacy laws because
it would have a very strong tracking element.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 11/10/2021 19.02, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 11.10.21 um 13:30 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>> On 11/10/2021 12.41, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 11.10.21 um 10:42 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>>>> I didn't say anything about that, either.
>>>>
>>>> What I said is that I have not seen yet a MUA that honours the return
>>>> Disposition-Notification-To header by default and silently, or where
>>>> this default can not be changed, and that I would uninstall it fast if I
>>>> found out. Of course I have not seen them all.
>>>
>>> Such a client does not exist, AFAIK. My experience is the same as yours.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe platforms used inside companies?
>
> I doubt it. It would probably be against European privacy laws because
> it would have a very strong tracking element.

In the past, I had those features. I think it was Lotus notes.

Notice that it is not personal email, but work email. You probably would
be warned when hired and have to sign papers.

Consider messaging platforms like Whatsapp, it has that feature active
by default.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Am 11.10.21 um 22:20 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> On 11/10/2021 19.02, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 11.10.21 um 13:30 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>>> On 11/10/2021 12.41, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> Am 11.10.21 um 10:42 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>>>>> I didn't say anything about that, either.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I said is that I have not seen yet a MUA that honours the return
>>>>> Disposition-Notification-To header by default and silently, or where
>>>>> this default can not be changed, and that I would uninstall it fast if I
>>>>> found out. Of course I have not seen them all.
>>>>
>>>> Such a client does not exist, AFAIK. My experience is the same as yours.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe platforms used inside companies?
>>
>> I doubt it. It would probably be against European privacy laws because
>> it would have a very strong tracking element.
>
> In the past, I had those features. I think it was Lotus notes.
>
> Notice that it is not personal email, but work email. You probably would
> be warned when hired and have to sign papers.

I'm very familiar with Lotus Notes. I was tortured with that thing for
years. But I do not remember any more about such a feature.

> Consider messaging platforms like Whatsapp, it has that feature active
> by default.

But it is your choice and it can be turned off. At least when I still
used that crap on compassionate grounds.
In Europe companies forbid the use of WA on company phones anyway
because they want to avoid legal problems.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 11/10/2021 23.18, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 11.10.21 um 22:20 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>> On 11/10/2021 19.02, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 11.10.21 um 13:30 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>>>> On 11/10/2021 12.41, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> Am 11.10.21 um 10:42 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>>>>>> I didn't say anything about that, either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I said is that I have not seen yet a MUA that honours the return
>>>>>> Disposition-Notification-To header by default and silently, or where
>>>>>> this default can not be changed, and that I would uninstall it fast if I
>>>>>> found out. Of course I have not seen them all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Such a client does not exist, AFAIK. My experience is the same as yours.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe platforms used inside companies?
>>>
>>> I doubt it. It would probably be against European privacy laws because
>>> it would have a very strong tracking element.
>>
>> In the past, I had those features. I think it was Lotus notes.
>>
>> Notice that it is not personal email, but work email. You probably would
>> be warned when hired and have to sign papers.
>
> I'm very familiar with Lotus Notes. I was tortured with that thing for
> years. But I do not remember any more about such a feature.

I don't know how exactly they did it, but a client used it, and the list
display did tell what messages have been already read.

I have a feeling that Exchange also did it, for internal mails, but I
don't remember.

>
>> Consider messaging platforms like Whatsapp, it has that feature active
>> by default.
>
> But it is your choice and it can be turned off. At least when I still
> used that crap on compassionate grounds.
> In Europe companies forbid the use of WA on company phones anyway
> because they want to avoid legal problems.

LOL. Not so. I know some people with company phones and they do have
whatsapp. They would be stupid not to, because clients expect to
communicate with them using wasap.

The other day I had to get some repairs done at home, and the repair
company asked for me to take photos and send them on wasap.

The maintenance people of a security alarm I handle ask me to send the
GPS location of the site using wasap location attachment.

etc.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Am 16.10.21 um 22:26 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
> On 11/10/2021 23.18, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> But it is your choice and it can be turned off. At least when I still
>> used that crap on compassionate grounds.
>> In Europe companies forbid the use of WA on company phones anyway
>> because they want to avoid legal problems.
>
> LOL. Not so. I know some people with company phones and they do have
> whatsapp. They would be stupid not to, because clients expect to
> communicate with them using wasap.

It is certainly no problem when the clients allow it explicitly. I do
not one company in Germany or Switzerland that allows the use of
WhatsApp on a company phone.

> The other day I had to get some repairs done at home, and the repair
> company asked for me to take photos and send them on wasap.

The stupid never die out.

> The maintenance people of a security alarm I handle ask me to send the
> GPS location of the site using wasap location attachment.

The stupid never die out. In security relevant areas this is
recognisably for even the people with the smalles brains that it is not
acceptable. And this is hopefully not a process implemented by tha
company. Lazy employees.

Your examples make *my* point.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 17/10/2021 07.49, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 16.10.21 um 22:26 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
>> On 11/10/2021 23.18, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> But it is your choice and it can be turned off. At least when I still
>>> used that crap on compassionate grounds.
>>> In Europe companies forbid the use of WA on company phones anyway
>>> because they want to avoid legal problems.
>>
>> LOL. Not so. I know some people with company phones and they do have
>> whatsapp. They would be stupid not to, because clients expect to
>> communicate with them using wasap.
>
> It is certainly no problem when the clients allow it explicitly. I do
> not one company in Germany or Switzerland that allows the use of
> WhatsApp on a company phone.
>
>> The other day I had to get some repairs done at home, and the repair
>> company asked for me to take photos and send them on wasap.
>
> The stupid never die out.

Your opinion will be ignored.

>> The maintenance people of a security alarm I handle ask me to send the
>> GPS location of the site using wasap location attachment.
>
> The stupid never die out. In security relevant areas this is
> recognisably for even the people with the smalles brains that it is not
> acceptable. And this is hopefully not a process implemented by tha
> company. Lazy employees.
>
> Your examples make *my* point.

Your opinion will be ignored.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 10 Oct 2021 18:10:14 -0400, micky
<NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

>Do email programs for Android generally properly handle return receipt
>requests? The built-in email program?
>
>I use K-9 but I don't think my recipient does.

Well, I didn't get a receipt, but I sent a text that I know one of them,
the girlfriend, got, because SMS tells you it's received. No reply
however.

My brother, his wife, and son and the son's girlfriend are all in Peru.

Apparently the only one with a phone is the girlfriend, who is from Peru
and lives in Peru, but I hate to keep bothering her.

I don't know if any of them have a laptop. There is no chance my brother
would bother to bring his, or a phone.

I emailed the son and sil and got no receipt, but I suspect they have no
phone, no laptops and didnt' get the message. I don't know how my sil
lives without a phone.

It's amazing in this day and age how hard my family is to reach.

An earlier time that brother and sil went to Peru, I didn't know it and
kept trying to reach them. Imagined the worst. Finally thought to call
his buddy 1000 miles from their home to find out where he was.

Brother is supposed to come home at the end of October. Maybe he will.

Thanks for the answers and an interesting thread.

Am 23.10.21 um 08:01 schrieb micky:
> In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 10 Oct 2021 18:10:14 -0400, micky
> <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>
>> Do email programs for Android generally properly handle return receipt
>> requests? The built-in email program?
>>
>> I use K-9 but I don't think my recipient does.
>
> Well, I didn't get a receipt, but I sent a text that I know one of them,
> the girlfriend, got, because SMS tells you it's received. No reply
> however.

You have no constitutional right to get an answer.

> My brother, his wife, and son and the son's girlfriend are all in Peru.
>
> Apparently the only one with a phone is the girlfriend, who is from Peru
> and lives in Peru, but I hate to keep bothering her.

Then don't.

> I don't know if any of them have a laptop. There is no chance my brother
> would bother to bring his, or a phone.
>
> I emailed the son and sil and got no receipt, but I suspect they have no
> phone, no laptops and didnt' get the message. I don't know how my sil
> lives without a phone.

For you it must be hell on earth and for a lot of people it is heavenly
freedom. I draw a completely different conclusion.

> It's amazing in this day and age how hard my family is to reach.

Could you imagine that you get on their nerves and that this is the
reason why they do not answer you?

> An earlier time that brother and sil went to Peru, I didn't know it and
> kept trying to reach them. Imagined the worst. Finally thought to call
> his buddy 1000 miles from their home to find out where he was.

That says it all!

> Brother is supposed to come home at the end of October. Maybe he will.
>
> Thanks for the answers and an interesting thread.

What have your family-relations to do with the topic?

--
De gustibus non est disputandum