> -----Original Message-----
> From: Info-vax <info-vax-bounces@rbnsn.com> On Behalf Of Arne Vajhøj
> via Info-vax
> Sent: May-22-22 9:39 PM
> To: info-vax@rbnsn.com
> Cc: Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
> Subject: Re: [Info-vax] VMS article in The Register
>
> On 5/22/2022 10:41 AM, Kerry Main wrote:
> > Extract " Yet for speed, raw data processing power and uptime
> > mainframes remain a compelling proposition. Innovations in recent
> > years by IBM and Red Hat mean users can deploy cloud native
> > applications on Kubernetes and Red Hat OpenShift on IBM Z and LinuxONE
> > using what it calls “Cloud Paks” — while its new “Wazi aaS”
> > (don’t laugh) offering lets users provision z/OS virtual server
> > instances on IBM Z in IBM Cloud; something that Big Blue thinks has
> > cut z/OS development and test environments from days or weeks down to
> > six minutes or fewer."
> As a general rule if the best argument for buying X is that it is able to do the
> same as Y, then most will prefer Y over X.
>
> Arne

Conversely, it makes it very difficult to switch from X to Y if X can do the same as Y.

Especially if the cost to switch is years and during the transition, will have severe impact on new functionality being requested by the business.

😊

Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com

--
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On 5/23/2022 7:14 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 5/23/22 02:21, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2022-05-23 kl. 00:59, skrev Jake Hamby:
>>
>>
>> Just look at the definition for "IEFBR14" to get an idea of the utterly
>> bizarre naming conventions of the standard system programs that you can run
>> from JCL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEFBR14
>>
>> I have written quite some JCL that used IEFBR14.
>> Another common one is IEBGENER. Compare that with a simple "$ COPY...".
>> https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos-basic-skills?topic=utilities-iebgener-utility-generate-copy-sequential-data-set
>>
>>
>> That was fun times...
>>
>
> 40 years ago those names had meaning (in the IBM world). They
> remain the same today out of momentum. Unix 's curt naming dates
> to a time of 110 Baud communications. Today "cp" could easily be "copy", "ld"
> could be "load" and "ls" could be "list". But why
> fix what isn't broken.
>
> bill

My position is they were ALWAYS broken ...

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 5/23/2022 8:30 AM, Kerry Main wrote:
>> From: Info-vax <info-vax-bounces@rbnsn.com> On Behalf Of Arne Vajhøj via Info-vax
>> Sent: May-22-22 9:39 PM
>> On 5/22/2022 10:41 AM, Kerry Main wrote:
>>> Extract " Yet for speed, raw data processing power and uptime
>>> mainframes remain a compelling proposition. Innovations in recent
>>> years by IBM and Red Hat mean users can deploy cloud native
>>> applications on Kubernetes and Red Hat OpenShift on IBM Z and LinuxONE
>>> using what it calls “Cloud Paks” — while its new “Wazi aaS”
>>> (don’t laugh) offering lets users provision z/OS virtual server
>>> instances on IBM Z in IBM Cloud; something that Big Blue thinks has
>>> cut z/OS development and test environments from days or weeks down to
>>> six minutes or fewer."
>> As a general rule if the best argument for buying X is that it is able to do the
>> same as Y, then most will prefer Y over X.
>
> Conversely, it makes it very difficult to switch from X to Y if X can do the same as Y.

Short term correct.

But long term no. Long term they want the real thing.

Sure sometime it take decades to complete the move. But as
soon as X is deemed not the long term target, then new
development get done on Y if possible. It starts
impacting hiring and hardware investment decisions etc..

Arne

On 5/23/22 10:11, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 5/23/2022 7:14 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> On 5/23/22 02:21, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> Den 2022-05-23 kl. 00:59, skrev Jake Hamby:
>>>
>>>
>>> Just look at the definition for "IEFBR14" to get an idea of the utterly
>>> bizarre naming conventions of the standard system programs that you
>>> can run
>>> from JCL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEFBR14
>>>
>>> I have written quite some JCL that used IEFBR14.
>>> Another common one is IEBGENER. Compare that with a simple "$ COPY...".
>>> https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos-basic-skills?topic=utilities-iebgener-utility-generate-copy-sequential-data-set
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That was fun times...
>>>
>>
>> 40 years ago those names had meaning (in the IBM world).  They
>> remain the same today out of momentum.  Unix 's curt naming dates
>> to a time of 110 Baud communications.  Today "cp" could easily be
>> "copy", "ld"
>> could be "load" and "ls" could be "list".  But why
>> fix what isn't broken.
>>
>> bill
>
> My position is they were ALWAYS broken ...
>

You never did much typing at 110 (or 60) baud, did you?

bill

On 5/23/2022 12:09 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 5/23/22 10:11, Dave Froble wrote:
>> On 5/23/2022 7:14 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>> On 5/23/22 02:21, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>> Den 2022-05-23 kl. 00:59, skrev Jake Hamby:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just look at the definition for "IEFBR14" to get an idea of the utterly
>>>> bizarre naming conventions of the standard system programs that you can run
>>>> from JCL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEFBR14
>>>>
>>>> I have written quite some JCL that used IEFBR14.
>>>> Another common one is IEBGENER. Compare that with a simple "$ COPY...".
>>>> https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos-basic-skills?topic=utilities-iebgener-utility-generate-copy-sequential-data-set
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That was fun times...
>>>>
>>>
>>> 40 years ago those names had meaning (in the IBM world). They
>>> remain the same today out of momentum. Unix 's curt naming dates
>>> to a time of 110 Baud communications. Today "cp" could easily be "copy", "ld"
>>> could be "load" and "ls" could be "list". But why
>>> fix what isn't broken.
>>>
>>> bill
>>
>> My position is they were ALWAYS broken ...
>>
>
> You never did much typing at 110 (or 60) baud, did you?
>
> bill
>

Yes, I did. You're not the only dinosaur around.

Damn teletype machines, almost needed a hammer to depress the keys.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 5/23/2022 10:36 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 5/23/2022 8:30 AM, Kerry Main wrote:
>>> From: Info-vax <info-vax-bounces@rbnsn.com> On Behalf Of Arne Vajhøj via
>>> Info-vax
>>> Sent: May-22-22 9:39 PM
>>> On 5/22/2022 10:41 AM, Kerry Main wrote:
>>>> Extract " Yet for speed, raw data processing power and uptime
>>>> mainframes remain a compelling proposition. Innovations in recent
>>>> years by IBM and Red Hat mean users can deploy cloud native
>>>> applications on Kubernetes and Red Hat OpenShift on IBM Z and LinuxONE
>>>> using what it calls “Cloud Paks” — while its new “Wazi aaS”
>>>> (don’t laugh) offering lets users provision z/OS virtual server
>>>> instances on IBM Z in IBM Cloud; something that Big Blue thinks has
>>>> cut z/OS development and test environments from days or weeks down to
>>>> six minutes or fewer."
>>> As a general rule if the best argument for buying X is that it is able to do the
>>> same as Y, then most will prefer Y over X.
>>
>> Conversely, it makes it very difficult to switch from X to Y if X can do the
>> same as Y.
>
> Short term correct.
>
> But long term no. Long term they want the real thing.
>
> Sure sometime it take decades to complete the move. But as
> soon as X is deemed not the long term target, then new
> development get done on Y if possible. It starts
> impacting hiring and hardware investment decisions etc..
>
> Arne

That hat you pull all this info out of. Does it give winning lottery numbers?

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486