I have a 3100 unit that I need to load software onto. At the moment it only has VMS 7.1 and a TK50 tape drive. I don't have access to another drive. Maybe a dumb question, but can I purchase a cheap external SCSI CDROM drive and use this to move files across? The 3100 has a SCSI connector at the back, it's probably DEC proprietary but I'm hoping there is a connector out there that might work.

Other option is to file transfer via the serial console but I'm not sure if VMS comes with anything like Kermit out of the box.

Thanks
Dave

Hi Dave,

you'll need a scsi-cd/dvd-drive that supports 512 Blocks / I/O. There is
a jumper on the backside that switches the mode between 2048 and 512.

I think thatyou'll find some references in the VMS FAQ .

Eberhard

Am 01.06.2022 um 19:13 schrieb Dave Barter via Info-vax:
> I have a 3100 unit that I need to load software onto. At the moment it only has VMS 7.1 and a TK50 tape drive. I don't have access to another drive. Maybe a dumb question, but can I purchase a cheap external SCSI CDROM drive and use this to move files across? The 3100 has a SCSI connector at the back, it's probably DEC proprietary but I'm hoping there is a connector out there that might work.
>
> Other option is to file transfer via the serial console but I'm not sure if VMS comes with anything like Kermit out of the box.
>
> Thanks
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Info-vax mailing list
> Info-vax@rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/info-vax_rbnsn.com
>

A Pioneer DVD-305S SCSI DVD Laufwerk Slot-In

will work to boot from a CD.

Am 01.06.2022 um 19:13 schrieb Dave Barter via Info-vax:
> I have a 3100 unit that I need to load software onto. At the moment it only has VMS 7.1 and a TK50 tape drive. I don't have access to another drive. Maybe a dumb question, but can I purchase a cheap external SCSI CDROM drive and use this to move files across? The 3100 has a SCSI connector at the back, it's probably DEC proprietary but I'm hoping there is a connector out there that might work.
>
> Other option is to file transfer via the serial console but I'm not sure if VMS comes with anything like Kermit out of the box.
>
> Thanks
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Info-vax mailing list
> Info-vax@rbnsn.com
> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/info-vax_rbnsn.com
>

On 2022-06-01, Dave Barter <dave@nautoguide.com> wrote:
> I have a 3100 unit that I need to load software onto. At the moment it only has VMS 7.1 and a TK50 tape drive. I don't have access to another drive. Maybe a dumb question, but can I purchase a cheap external SCSI CDROM drive and use this to move files across? The 3100 has a SCSI connector at the back, it's probably DEC proprietary but I'm hoping there is a connector out there that might work.
>

Didn't the SCSI CD-ROMs on that generation hardware require a certain
block size that wasn't the standard block size on normal PC hardware ?

> Other option is to file transfer via the serial console but I'm not sure if VMS comes with anything like Kermit out of the box.
>

You could always hexify the file to be transferred, use C-Kermit's
TRANSMIT command (with appropriate inter-line delays) to transfer
the file to a waiting "$ copy/log tt: filename.dat", and then write
a little dehexify program in Macro-32 or whatever other language you
might have installed.

I assume TCP/IP is not installed on the server in question.

If it is installed, but the real problem is you don't have a working
ethernet connection, you could always try bringing up SLIP or PPP on
one of the serial ports.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 2022-06-01 17:13:32 +0000, Dave Barter said:

> I have a 3100 unit that I need to load software onto. At the moment it
> only has VMS 7.1 and a TK50 tape drive. I don't have access to another
> drive. Maybe a dumb question, but can I purchase a cheap external SCSI
> CDROM drive and use this to move files across? The 3100 has a SCSI
> connector at the back, it's probably DEC proprietary but I'm hoping
> there is a connector out there that might work.
>
> Other option is to file transfer via the serial console but I'm not
> sure if VMS comes with anything like Kermit out of the box.

Boot an OpenVMS Alpha or OpenVMS I64 box running "recent" OpenVMS, and
configure Host-based InfoServer there, and boot the VAX remotely from
that. Any "S-VAX" will boot from InfoServer, and yours is an S-VAX.

Or swap some SCSI disk to another OpenVMS system, and load the kit there.

Or yeah, a 512-byte-capable SCSI CD-ROM. DEC RRDs, most (all?) SCSI
Plextor drives, and most Sun CD-ROM drives can support 512-byte
sectors, or be reconfigured to support 512-byte sectors.

Links:
https://docs.vmssoftware.com/vsi-openvms-system-management-utilities-reference-manual-volume-i-a-l/#INFOSERV

http://hoffmanlabs.com/vmsfaq/
http://hoffmanlabs.com/vmsfaq/vmsfaq_026.html#cddvddev

--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC

On 01/06/2022 18:27, vaxinf@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi Dave,
>
> you'll need a scsi-cd/dvd-drive that supports 512 Blocks / I/O. There is
> a jumper on the backside that switches the mode between 2048 and 512.
>
> I think thatyou'll find some references in the VMS FAQ .
>
> Eberhard

Isn't the "block size" only important if you want to boot from the drive?

There are 50-pin SCSI DVD drives that have this jumper. e.g. this toshiba:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131914831012

and I use a similar drive in a few SUN/DEC/IBM systems..

Dave

> Am 01.06.2022 um 19:13 schrieb Dave Barter via Info-vax:
>> I have a 3100 unit that I need to load software onto. At the moment it
>> only has VMS 7.1 and a TK50 tape drive. I don't have access to another
>> drive. Maybe a dumb question, but can I purchase a cheap external SCSI
>> CDROM drive and use this to move files across? The 3100 has a SCSI
>> connector at the back, it's probably DEC proprietary but I'm hoping
>> there is a connector out there that might work.
>>
>> Other option is to file transfer via the serial console but I'm not
>> sure if VMS comes with anything like Kermit out of the box.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Dave
>> _______________________________________________
>> Info-vax mailing list
>> Info-vax@rbnsn.com
>> http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/info-vax_rbnsn.com
>>
>
>

On 2022-06-01 23:22:18 +0000, David Wade said:

> Isn't the "block size" only important if you want to boot from the drive?

This is an install, which means booting, which means console boot
drivers are involved, etc.

OpenVMS Alpha blocks and de-blocks 2048-byte sectors on optical media
on IDE/ATAPI (DQ), but the OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS VAX SCSI drivers
(DK) do not provide that.

Go RRD, or Plextor, maybe Sun optical. Or InfoServer. Or swap a SCSI
disk somewhere OpenVMS with better initial-load support.

If y'all want to try a 2048-byte sector SCSI drive, have at. Lots of
reports of issues with SCSI opticals, in the archives of the olden
daze. Hence inclusion in the FAQ, etc.

--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC

It was pretty many years ago by now, but I did try to boot a SCSI CD-ROM
drive with the 512 byte jumper, and it didn't work. Instead I copied the whole
file to a SCSI disk drive raw device, and booted that.

So I don't know why it didn't work.

Anyone working on these machines should have at least a few SCSI disks,
or adapters to newer SCSI disks.

I first loaded NetBSD onto it, and then VMS. I don't remember more details.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 9:52:41 PM UTC-4, gah4 wrote:
> It was pretty many years ago by now, but I did try to boot a SCSI CD-ROM
> drive with the 512 byte jumper, and it didn't work. Instead I copied the whole
> file to a SCSI disk drive raw device, and booted that.
>
> So I don't know why it didn't work.
>
> Anyone working on these machines should have at least a few SCSI disks,
> or adapters to newer SCSI disks.
>
> I first loaded NetBSD onto it, and then VMS. I don't remember more details.

If no other viable options are available or work, I do have RRD40 and RRD50 drives available.

Dan

On 6/1/22 10:13 AM, Dave Barter wrote:
> I have a 3100 unit that I need to load software onto. At the moment it only has VMS 7.1 and a TK50 tape drive. I don't have access to another drive. Maybe a dumb question, but can I purchase a cheap external SCSI CDROM drive and use this to move files across? The 3100 has a SCSI connector at the back, it's probably DEC proprietary but I'm hoping there is a connector out there that might work.

I'd suggest using a SCSI2SD, which you can easily configure as multiple
devices. One (or more) of these can be an emulated CD-ROM with a DEC
RRD40 identifier string and 512-byte block size, which will enable you
to boot from it.

Another option would be to use SIMH to emulate an InfoServer with one or
more emulated CD-ROM drives attached, put it on the same network, and
then access the drives over the network. That would also let you back up
your 3100 to storage on the emulated InfoServer and therefore to a more
modern system. (And you could even then emulate your 3100 if you want.)

-- Chris

On 2022-06-01, Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-06-01 23:22:18 +0000, David Wade said:
>
>> Isn't the "block size" only important if you want to boot from the drive?
>
> This is an install, which means booting, which means console boot
> drivers are involved, etc.
>

The way he was talking, it sounded like he wanted to install application
software on top of VMS, not install an updated version of VMS itself.

I think he needs to tell us what networking software he has installed on
the box and if his ethernet port is working.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:19:25 AM UTC+1, cmhe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On 6/1/22 10:13 AM, Dave Barter wrote:
> > I have a 3100 unit that I need to load software onto. At the moment it only has VMS 7.1 and a TK50 tape drive. I don't have access to another drive. Maybe a dumb question, but can I purchase a cheap external SCSI CDROM drive and use this to move files across? The 3100 has a SCSI connector at the back, it's probably DEC proprietary but I'm hoping there is a connector out there that might work.
> I'd suggest using a SCSI2SD, which you can easily configure as multiple
> devices. One (or more) of these can be an emulated CD-ROM with a DEC
> RRD40 identifier string and 512-byte block size, which will enable you
> to boot from it.
>
> Another option would be to use SIMH to emulate an InfoServer with one or
> more emulated CD-ROM drives attached, put it on the same network, and
> then access the drives over the network. That would also let you back up
> your 3100 to storage on the emulated InfoServer and therefore to a more
> modern system. (And you could even then emulate your 3100 if you want.)
>
> -- Chris

SCSI2SD looks a great option. This may be a daft question but how do I format and write to the filesystem on the SD card from Mac/PC, do I need an emulator to do this?

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 1:22:15 PM UTC+1, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2022-06-01, Stephen Hoffman <seao...@hoffmanlabs.invalid> wrote:
> > On 2022-06-01 23:22:18 +0000, David Wade said:
> >
> >> Isn't the "block size" only important if you want to boot from the drive?
> >
> > This is an install, which means booting, which means console boot
> > drivers are involved, etc.
> >
> The way he was talking, it sounded like he wanted to install application
> software on top of VMS, not install an updated version of VMS itself.
>
> I think he needs to tell us what networking software he has installed on
> the box and if his ethernet port is working.
> Simon.
>

I don't have any networking software installed at all but I do have a working ethernet connection via the AUI port and an RJ45 transceiver

On 05/06/2022 10:33, Dave Barter wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:19:25 AM UTC+1, cmhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On 6/1/22 10:13 AM, Dave Barter wrote:
>>> I have a 3100 unit that I need to load software onto. At the moment it only has VMS 7.1 and a TK50 tape drive. I don't have access to another drive. Maybe a dumb question, but can I purchase a cheap external SCSI CDROM drive and use this to move files across? The 3100 has a SCSI connector at the back, it's probably DEC proprietary but I'm hoping there is a connector out there that might work.
>> I'd suggest using a SCSI2SD, which you can easily configure as multiple
>> devices. One (or more) of these can be an emulated CD-ROM with a DEC
>> RRD40 identifier string and 512-byte block size, which will enable you
>> to boot from it.
>>
>> Another option would be to use SIMH to emulate an InfoServer with one or
>> more emulated CD-ROM drives attached, put it on the same network, and
>> then access the drives over the network. That would also let you back up
>> your 3100 to storage on the emulated InfoServer and therefore to a more
>> modern system. (And you could even then emulate your 3100 if you want.)
>>
>> -- Chris
>
> SCSI2SD looks a great option. This may be a daft question but how do I format and write to the filesystem on the SD card from Mac/PC, do I need an emulator to do this?

You don't need an emulator. Its just a sector copy of the CD. The issue
I had was that if you want to use multiple CD images you need to keep
re-booting.