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computers / comp.misc / Re: where did you save your files?

SubjectAuthor
* where did you save your files?Retrograde
+* Re: where did you save your files?Adrian Caspersz
|+- Re: where did you save your files?Rich
|`* Re: where did you save your files?Bruce Horrocks
| `* Re: where did you save your files?Spiros Bousbouras
|  `- Re: where did you save your files?Bruce Horrocks
+* Re: where did you save your files?Jim Jackson
|`- Re: where did you save your files?Julio Di Egidio
+- Re: where did you save your files?Stefan Ram
`* Re: where did you save your files?Blue-Maned_Hawk
 +* Re: where did you save your files?Julio Di Egidio
 |`* Re: where did you save your files?Adrian Caspersz
 | +- Re: where did you save your files?Julio Di Egidio
 | `* Re: where did you save your files?Retrograde
 |  +* Re: where did you save your files?Julio Di Egidio
 |  |`- Re: where did you save your files?Retrograde
 |  `- Re: where did you save your files?Blue-Maned_Hawk
 `* Re: where did you save your files?Sylvia Else
  +* Re: where did you save your files?Julio Di Egidio
  |`* Re: where did you save your files?scott
  | `- Re: where did you save your files?Julio Di Egidio
  `* Re: where did you save your files?Dan Purgert
   +* Re: where did you save your files?Stefan Ram
   |+* Re: where did you save your files?Dan Purgert
   ||`* Re: where did you save your files?Rich
   || `- Re: where did you save your files?Dan Purgert
   |`- Re: where did you save your files?Scott Dorsey
   +- Re: where did you save your files?Arnold Knight
   `* Re: where did you save your files?Theo
    +* Re: where did you save your files?Julio Di Egidio
    |`- Re: where did you save your files?Rich
    `- Re: where did you save your files?Dan Purgert

Pages:12
where did you save your files?

<u2j751$3tgnq$1@solani.org>

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From: fun...@amongus.com.invalid (Retrograde)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: where did you save your files?
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2023 13:47:13 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Retrograde - Sat, 29 Apr 2023 13:47 UTC

From the «on the website» department:
Feed: SoylentNews
Title: File Not Found
Author: janrinok
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2023 09:52:00 -0400
Link: https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=23/04/27/158230&from=rss

owl[1] writes:

https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-directory-structure-educa
tion-gen-z[2]

A generation that grew up with Google is forcing professors to rethink their
lesson plans

Catherine Garland, an astrophysicist, started seeing the problem in 2017. She
was teaching an engineering course, and her students were using simulation
software to model turbines for jet engines. She'd laid out the assignment
clearly, but student after student was calling her over for help. They were
all getting the same error message: The program couldn't find their files.

Garland thought it would be an easy fix. She asked each student where they'd
saved their project. Could they be on the desktop? Perhaps in the shared
drive? But over and over, she was met with confusion. "What are you talking
about?" multiple students inquired. Not only did they not know where their
files were saved — they didn't understand the question.

Gradually, Garland came to the same realization that many of her fellow
educators have reached in the past four years: the concept of file folders and
directories, essential to previous generations' understanding of computers, is
gibberish to many modern students.

Professors have varied recollections of when they first saw the disconnect.
But their estimates (even the most tentative ones) are surprisingly similar.
It's been an issue for four years or so, starting — for many educators —
around the fall of 2017.

That's approximately when Lincoln Colling, a lecturer in the psychology
department at the University of Sussex, told a class full of research students
to pull a file out of a specific directory and was met with blank stares. It
was the same semester that Nicolás Guarín-Zapata, an applied physicist and
lecturer at Colombia's Universidad EAFIT, noticed that students in his classes
were having trouble finding their documents. It's the same year that posts
began to pop up on STEM-educator forums asking for help explaining the concept
of a file.

While some of us may find this phenomenon strange to understand it is becoming
increasingly real for many. Are there any other examples of things that we take
for granted becoming incomprehensible to those younger that ourselves? I'm not
thinking of 'hanging up' the telephone, or why the icon for saving a file
appears to some young people to be a vending machine, but things that cause
difficulty for others.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Original Submission[3]

Read more of this story[4] at SoylentNews.

Links:
[1]: https://soylentnews.org/~owl/ (link)
[2]: https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-directory-structure-education-gen-z (link)
[3]: https://soylentnews.org/submit.pl?op=viewsubsubid=59442 (link)
[4]: https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=23/04/27/158230&from=rss (link)

--
First rule of Usenet: you do not talk about Usenet

Re: where did you save your files?

<kb4pr4Ff16tU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ema...@here.invalid (Adrian Caspersz)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: where did you save your files?
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2023 16:01:55 +0100
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 by: Adrian Caspersz - Sat, 29 Apr 2023 15:01 UTC

On 29/04/2023 14:47, Retrograde wrote:

> Garland thought it would be an easy fix. She asked each student where they'd
> saved their project. Could they be on the desktop? Perhaps in the shared
> drive? But over and over, she was met with confusion. "What are you talking
> about?" multiple students inquired. Not only did they not know where their
> files were saved — they didn't understand the question.
>
> Gradually, Garland came to the same realization that many of her fellow
> educators have reached in the past four years: the concept of file folders and
> directories, essential to previous generations' understanding of computers, is
> gibberish to many modern students.
>

Blame Microsoft.

In the world of MS-DOS, it was common to see everything and anything in
the root of a C drive. A messy clean up job.

With Windows came, all this piled into the the 'My Documents' folder.
Different location, same mess.

When Vista came, they had a grand idea of a new filing system with
enhanced search of metadata (so filenames became not so important).
However, that got the chop - folks just want to title their ripped MP3's
filenames than play around with tags.

Now everything is redirected in local, offline and online profiles.

In a company, file duplication is a huge waste of disk space. They are
working on that.

I shudder to think of the duplication on Google Drive.

On the other hand, there are data storing apps on Mobile Phones that
don't have the concepts of filenames.

And professionally, I work with a content management system that also
does not have file names.

It's a database. Metadata ;-)

--
Adrian C

Re: where did you save your files?

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From: ric...@example.invalid (Rich)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: where did you save your files?
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2023 15:10:20 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Rich - Sat, 29 Apr 2023 15:10 UTC

Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid> wrote:
> On 29/04/2023 14:47, Retrograde wrote:
>
>> Garland thought it would be an easy fix. She asked each student
>> where they'd saved their project. Could they be on the desktop?
>> Perhaps in the shared drive? But over and over, she was met with
>> confusion. "What are you talking about?" multiple students
>> inquired. Not only did they not know where their files were saved —
>> they didn't understand the question.
>>
>> Gradually, Garland came to the same realization that many of her
>> fellow educators have reached in the past four years: the concept of
>> file folders and directories, essential to previous generations'
>> understanding of computers, is gibberish to many modern students.
>>
>
> Blame Microsoft.

Google and Apple get a nice size share of the blame as well. Some of
these 'youngsters' the article talks about are of the generation where
their only contact with, and only use, of a "computer" has been their
cell phones. And both Android and IOS go to great lengths to fully
hide the fact that there are "files" or a "filesystem" inside
underlying the OS user interface.

For someone who's total lifetime computer using experience has been
their cell phone, it is not at all surprising that they would be
completely ignorant of the concept of a "file" and/or the filesystem
that holds those files.

Re: where did you save your files?

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From: jj...@franjam.org.uk (Jim Jackson)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: where did you save your files?
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2023 16:30:02 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Jim Jackson - Sat, 29 Apr 2023 16:30 UTC

On 2023-04-29, Retrograde <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> wrote:
> From the ??on the website?? department:
> Feed: SoylentNews
> Title: File Not Found
> Author: janrinok
> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2023 09:52:00 -0400
> Link: https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=23/04/27/158230&from=rss
>
> owl[1] writes:
>
> https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-directory-structure-educa
> tion-gen-z[2]
>
> A generation that grew up with Google is forcing professors to rethink their
> lesson plans
>
> Catherine Garland, an astrophysicist, started seeing the problem in 2017. She
> was teaching an engineering course, and her students were using simulation
> software to model turbines for jet engines. She'd laid out the assignment
> clearly, but student after student was calling her over for help. They were
> all getting the same error message: The program couldn't find their files.
.....snip....

This is very US-centric. I'd be curious to know if this is a problem in
different countries.

e.g. UK - my granddaughter (22) has no problem with files and folders
etc. Here in the UK I believe IT is a compulsory subject for those in
high school (11-16 years old).

Re: where did you save your files?

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From: ram...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: where did you save your files?
Date: 29 Apr 2023 16:49:49 GMT
Organization: Stefan Ram
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 by: Stefan Ram - Sat, 29 Apr 2023 16:49 UTC

Retrograde <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> quoted:
>Garland thought it would be an easy fix. She asked each student where they'd
>saved their project. Could they be on the desktop? Perhaps in the shared
>drive? But over and over, she was met with confusion. "What are you talking
>about?" multiple students inquired. Not only did they not know where their
>files were saved — they didn't understand the question.

I have been teaching computer programming in adult education
centers for decades, and I know that some basic concepts are
not know to many participants, for example, file systems, or
a text command shell. I either

- make it clear in the course announcements that this is
knowledge required for the course,

- teach it in the course, or

- try to navigate around it.

But these are /engineering students/. The professor should
tell them as an assignment to read a text about directories
in the first week of the course and then take if for granted.

Heck, I can teach you the basic stuff in one paragraph
(with some inaccuracies and omissions for simplification):

A collection of information stored on a medium like a
USB stick, DVD, a hard disk or a solid-state drive (SSD)
is called a "file". A string is assigned to such a file,
called the "file path". A file path looks like:

abc/def/ghi.txt

. Such a file path is subdivided at the last slash "/" into
a "directory" ("abc/def") and a "name" ("ghi.txt") and one
sometimes uses a metaphor according to which the file is
"in" the directory, e.g., 'the file "abc/def/ghi.txt" is
in the directory "abc/def"'. A directory also can be "in"
a directory, for example, the directory "abc/def" is "in"
the directory "abc", i.e., it's path starts with "abc/".

An engineering student should be able to get this.

Re: where did you save your files?

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Subject: Re: where did you save your files?
From: jul...@diegidio.name (Julio Di Egidio)
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 by: Julio Di Egidio - Sat, 29 Apr 2023 16:54 UTC

On Saturday, 29 April 2023 at 18:30:04 UTC+2, Jim Jackson wrote:
> On 2023-04-29, Retrograde <fun...@amongus.com.invalid> wrote:
<snip>
> > all getting the same error message: The program couldn't find their files.
> ....snip....
>
> This is very US-centric. I'd be curious to know if this is a problem in
> different countries.

That is especially concrete in western countries, but it is
in fact as ubiquitous as *globalization* is, and the cultural,
political, economical, and technological models it effects.

Julio

Re: where did you save your files?

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From: bluemane...@gmail.com (Blue-Maned_Hawk)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: where did you save your files?
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2023 19:14:36 -0400
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 by: Blue-Maned_Hawk - Sat, 29 Apr 2023 23:14 UTC


​What a sorry state our education system is in that students should not
understand the technology that is woven into the fabric of our modern
existence.
--
⚗︎ | /blu.mɛin.dʰak/ | shortens to "Hawk" | he/him/his/himself/Mr.
bluemanedhawk.github.io
Bitches stole my whole ass ␔🭖᷿᪳𝼗᷍⏧𒒫𐻾ࣛ↉�⃣ quoted-printable, can't
have shit in Thunderbird 😩

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 by: Julio Di Egidio - Sun, 30 Apr 2023 10:29 UTC

On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 01:14:39 UTC+2, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:

> ​What a sorry state our education system is in that students should not
> understand the technology that is woven into the fabric of our modern
> existence.

Not to mention the trolls and spammers all over the place to finish the job..

We deserve our own extinction...

*Plonk*

Julio

Re: where did you save your files?

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From: ema...@here.invalid (Adrian Caspersz)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: where did you save your files?
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2023 13:01:16 +0100
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 by: Adrian Caspersz - Sun, 30 Apr 2023 12:01 UTC

On 30/04/2023 11:29, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
> On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 01:14:39 UTC+2, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
>
>> ​What a sorry state our education system is in that students should not
>> understand the technology that is woven into the fabric of our modern
>> existence.
>
> Not to mention the trolls and spammers all over the place to finish the job.
>
> We deserve our own extinction...
>

The grim end will come when a spammer trains an AI, and the AI starts
trolling with us humans...

If you are somehow reading usenet from the future, yeah we told them
that this would happen and Microsoft still went ahead and did it.

(Curious, did the hair stop falling out?)

--
Adrian C

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Subject: Re: where did you save your files?
From: jul...@diegidio.name (Julio Di Egidio)
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 by: Julio Di Egidio - Sun, 30 Apr 2023 12:35 UTC

On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 14:01:18 UTC+2, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
> On 30/04/2023 11:29, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
> > On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 01:14:39 UTC+2, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
> >
> > > ​What a sorry state our education system is in that students should not
> > > understand the technology that is woven into the fabric of our modern
> > > existence.
> >
> > Not to mention the trolls and spammers all over the place to finish the job.
> > We deserve our own extinction...
>
> The grim end will come when a spammer trains an AI, and the AI starts
> trolling with us humans...

ChatGPT, which means the powers that be have had it
for years, is already able to do it and is in the hands of
the general public. So, you are misinformed at best.

Julio

Re: where did you save your files?

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From: fun...@amongus.com (Retrograde)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: where did you save your files?
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2023 09:48:44 -0400
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 by: Retrograde - Sun, 30 Apr 2023 13:48 UTC

> The grim end will come when a spammer trains an AI, and the AI starts
> trolling with us humans...
>
> If you are somehow reading usenet from the future, yeah we told them
> that this would happen and Microsoft still went ahead and did it.

Would be fun to think that in the future Usenet is still standing,
while the Twitters of the universe came, went, and left nothing behind.

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Subject: Re: where did you save your files?
From: jul...@diegidio.name (Julio Di Egidio)
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 by: Julio Di Egidio - Sun, 30 Apr 2023 17:00 UTC

On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 16:08:06 UTC+2, Retrograde wrote:
> > The grim end will come when a spammer trains an AI, and the AI starts
> > trolling with us humans...
> >
> > If you are somehow reading usenet from the future, yeah we told them
> > that this would happen and Microsoft still went ahead and did it.
>
> Would be fun to think that in the future Usenet is still standing,
> while the Twitters of the universe came, went, and left nothing behind.

"Fun to think" by yet another spammer and nymshifter as
another fundamental category from the readers digest.

Sure, keep going, indeed to the record.

Julio

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From: bluemane...@gmail.com (Blue-Maned_Hawk)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: where did you save your files?
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2023 16:36:42 -0400
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 by: Blue-Maned_Hawk - Sun, 30 Apr 2023 20:36 UTC

On 4/30/23 09:48, Retrograde wrote:
> Would be fun to think that in the future Usenet is still standing,
> while the Twitters of the universe came, went, and left nothing behind.
​I wouldn't be too surprised. Usenet is better at being a forum
protocol than Twitter is at being a blogging protocol.
--
⚗︎ | /blu.mɛin.dʰak/ | shortens to "Hawk" | he/him/his/himself/Mr.
bluemanedhawk.github.io
Bitches stole my whole ass ␔🭖᷿᪳𝼗᷍⏧𒒫𐻾ࣛ↉�⃣ quoted-printable, can't
have shit in Thunderbird 😩

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From: fun...@amongus.com (Retrograde)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: where did you save your files?
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 by: Retrograde - Mon, 1 May 2023 14:50 UTC

On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 10:00:19 -0700 (PDT)
> "Fun to think" by yet another spammer and nymshifter as
> another fundamental category from the readers digest.
>
> Sure, keep going, indeed to the record.
>
> Julio

*plonk*

Re: where did you save your files?

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From: syl...@email.invalid (Sylvia Else)
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Subject: Re: where did you save your files?
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 by: Sylvia Else - Tue, 2 May 2023 23:19 UTC

On 30-Apr-23 9:14 am, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
>
> ​What a sorry state our education system is in that students should not
> understand the technology that is woven into the fabric of our modern
> existence.
>

Give it another ten years for some of the students to become teachers,
and we'll be royally screwed.

Sylvia.

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Subject: Re: where did you save your files?
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 by: Bruce Horrocks - Wed, 3 May 2023 11:21 UTC

On 29/04/2023 16:01, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
> On 29/04/2023 14:47, Retrograde wrote:
>
>> Garland thought it would be an easy fix. She asked each student where
>> they'd
>> saved their project. Could they be on the desktop? Perhaps in the shared
>> drive? But over and over, she was met with confusion. "What are you
>> talking
>> about?" multiple students inquired. Not only did they not know where
>> their
>> files were saved — they didn't understand the question.
>>
>> Gradually, Garland came to the same realization that many of her fellow
>> educators have reached in the past four years: the concept of file
>> folders and
>> directories, essential to previous generations' understanding of
>> computers, is
>> gibberish to many modern students.
>>
>
> Blame Microsoft. >
> In the world of MS-DOS, it was common to see everything and anything in
> the root of a C drive. A messy clean up job.

DOS got sub-directories from version 2, I think? Certainly by v3.

> With Windows came, all this piled into the the 'My Documents' folder.
> Different location, same mess.

Again, early Windows was fine. It was the later versions that introduced
"My Documents", "My Music", "My Pictures". They lull you into a false
sense of security - fine for the home user with a few files, hopeless
for a business where even just a handful of employees need to be able to
coordinate multiple workflows in order to make the business work
efficiently.

> When Vista came, they had a grand idea of a new filing system with
> enhanced search of metadata (so filenames became not so important).
> However, that got the chop - folks just want to title their ripped MP3's
> filenames than play around with tags.
>
> Now everything is redirected in local, offline and online profiles.
>
> In a company, file duplication is a huge waste of disk space. They are
> working on that.

De-dupe is an easy low-carbon target and I'm sure we'll see (what should
have been unnecessary) products launched to help solve this crisis.

>
> I shudder to think of the duplication on Google Drive.
>
> On the other hand, there are data storing apps on Mobile Phones that
> don't have the concepts of filenames.
>
> And professionally, I work with a content management system that also
> does not have file names.
>
> It's a database. Metadata ;-)

Indeed.

I blame Apple partly because they had a solution in the original MacOS.
When they transitioned to Unix, they kept hold of the baby but threw out
some of the bath toys with the bathwater. In particular, files used to
be referenced internally by a unique numeric ID. This meant that users
could file the file in any folder structure or hierarchy and under any
name that suited them, and apps would still be able to find the file
because they only needed to track the ID.

It had some limitations of the time though, the main one being that the
IDs were unique only to the storage volume so apps actually needed to
track a volume ID and a file ID and be aware that the former could
change. Still a lot easier than tracking a file path and filename though.

Fast forward to the 21st century and we have globally unique GUIDs and
UUIDs that can serve the same purpose: give each file created a uuid and
track that.

So when you open an app and ask to open a recently accessed file, the
app opens the file using a uuid aware version of fopen() which knows how
to search the local drives and also (via extensions) how to ask Google
Docs / Office 365 / WhizzoStore9000 to search corporate repositories.

And if the file gets renamed in the corporate repository (because we all
know that users are incapable of following naming conventions) then it
won't matter.

Plenty of content management systems are using uuids as S3 object
references - it's only a matter of time[1] before the OS file systems
catchup and make this generic.

[1] About 30 years at the current rate. ;-)
--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

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 by: Spiros Bousbouras - Wed, 3 May 2023 13:30 UTC

On Wed, 3 May 2023 12:21:11 +0100
Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:
> Fast forward to the 21st century and we have globally unique GUIDs and
> UUIDs that can serve the same purpose: give each file created a uuid and
> track that.
>
> So when you open an app and ask to open a recently accessed file, the
> app opens the file using a uuid aware version of fopen() which knows how
> to search the local drives and also (via extensions) how to ask Google
> Docs / Office 365 / WhizzoStore9000 to search corporate repositories.
>
> And if the file gets renamed in the corporate repository (because we all
> know that users are incapable of following naming conventions) then it
> won't matter.

But for this you would need the operating systems in WhizzoStore9000 and the
rest to support this functionality. It seems difficult to get all the
operating system maintainers to cooperate. And some may view it as a matter
of freedom or privacy for the users to be able to change or erase the UUIDs
corresponding to files.

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 by: Bruce Horrocks - Thu, 4 May 2023 11:23 UTC

On 03/05/2023 14:30, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
> On Wed, 3 May 2023 12:21:11 +0100
> Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:
>> Fast forward to the 21st century and we have globally unique GUIDs and
>> UUIDs that can serve the same purpose: give each file created a uuid and
>> track that.
>>
>> So when you open an app and ask to open a recently accessed file, the
>> app opens the file using a uuid aware version of fopen() which knows how
>> to search the local drives and also (via extensions) how to ask Google
>> Docs / Office 365 / WhizzoStore9000 to search corporate repositories.
>>
>> And if the file gets renamed in the corporate repository (because we all
>> know that users are incapable of following naming conventions) then it
>> won't matter.
>
> But for this you would need the operating systems in WhizzoStore9000 and the
> rest to support this functionality. It seems difficult to get all the
> operating system maintainers to cooperate. And some may view it as a matter
> of freedom or privacy for the users to be able to change or erase the UUIDs
> corresponding to files.

Rome wasn't built in a day, so a staged approach will be required.

The first step might be to provide a Linux local version - perhaps by
using XFS extended attributes to store the uuid and an amended file
browser - Nautilus or whatever - to provide a mode where it makes use of
them. If the approach ever takes off then a more deeply integrated
solution could be added.

Then the file open dialogs need to be extended. And then an app or two
modified as a guide for other developers.

Getting WhizzoStore9000 to change is not hard because the underlying OS
doesn't need to change. For example, AWS S3 can use uuids as the object
reference so there's no change required by Amazon. Just need to adapt
Nautilus (or your preferred file browser) to use the existing AWS API.

As for changing uuids - yes of course, it's not forbidden. Doing so is a
bit like making a copy of a file on your local disk and then deleting
the original. Any app that has the original in its list of recently
accessed files will report an error if you select the deleted one. No
big deal.

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

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 by: Julio Di Egidio - Thu, 4 May 2023 11:59 UTC

On Wednesday, 3 May 2023 at 01:21:12 UTC+2, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 30-Apr-23 9:14 am, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
> >
> > ​What a sorry state our education system is in that students should not
> > understand the technology that is woven into the fabric of our modern
> > existence.
>
> Give it another ten years for some of the students to become teachers,
> and we'll be royally screwed.

You and the whole bandwagon, just like this thread, are an
example that frauds and nazi-retards have existed long before
any AI, indeed rather we wouldn't be at this point otherwise.

Julio

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 by: sco...@alfter.diespammersdie.us - Thu, 4 May 2023 19:10 UTC

Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> wrote:
> nazi-retards

Godwin's Law lives.

* PLONK *

--
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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 by: Julio Di Egidio - Fri, 5 May 2023 00:15 UTC

On Thursday, 4 May 2023 at 21:10:09 UTC+2, sc...@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
> Julio Di Egidio <ju...@diegidio.name> wrote:
> > nazi-retards
> Godwin's Law lives.
> * PLONK *

Sure, keep going, you blood-sucking pieces of retarded
all-pond-polluting nazi shit, but I will indeed at least be
calling you by your real names since you get livid.

ESAD, you and the whole indecent retarded bandwagon.

Julio

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 by: Dan Purgert - Fri, 5 May 2023 10:00 UTC

On 2023-05-02, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 30-Apr-23 9:14 am, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
>>
>> ​What a sorry state our education system is in that students should not
>> understand the technology that is woven into the fabric of our modern
>> existence.
>>
>
> Give it another ten years for some of the students to become teachers,
> and we'll be royally screwed.

On the other hand, how many of us know where the descriptors "Upper
Case" and "Lower Case" come from? Or (for potentially the slightly
younger crowd -- genX / Millennial) why Windows' "File Folders" are
known as "Directories" in *nix, or why we have "Carriage Return" at the
end of a line in a text file (or, if you're in Windows, a "Line Feed" as
well).

Probably scores of other things are also used in our daily lives where
it's just a case of "this is what it is", but IN GENERAL the populace
doesn't know (or necessarily care) why.

Now, Android (and I presume iOS) has an absolutely TERRIBLE UI/UX when
it comes to actually trying to use the onboard filesystem ... but if
that's what you're mainly used to (and anecdotally, the nieces and
nephews all having school-issued Chromebooks...), it makes sense that
there'd be lack of understanding.

Granted, after working in IT for the last 15 years ... I'm pretty sure
"people don't know where they saved their docs" isn't exactly news
either :)

--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

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 by: Stefan Ram - Fri, 5 May 2023 11:11 UTC

Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
>Granted, after working in IT for the last 15 years ... I'm pretty sure
>"people don't know where they saved their docs" isn't exactly news
>either :)

For Microsoft® Windows, there's a program called "Everything".
One enters a part of a filename, and it shows all matching
files in a few seconds (usually less than 10 seconds). People
don't have to know where they saved their files any longer.

For most operating systems, there are similar programs, but the
search might take more time.

(When one does not have any idea of the name either, one often
can find files using a combination of their type and date.)

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 by: Dan Purgert - Fri, 5 May 2023 13:29 UTC

On 2023-05-05, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
>>Granted, after working in IT for the last 15 years ... I'm pretty sure
>>"people don't know where they saved their docs" isn't exactly news
>>either :)
>
> For Microsoft® Windows, there's a program called "Everything".
> One enters a part of a filename, and it shows all matching
> files in a few seconds (usually less than 10 seconds). People
> don't have to know where they saved their files any longer.

Sure, but the original post here (and continued discussion) has focused
on "kids" not knowing where something was saved / not understanding
filesystem layouts. I'm just making the counterpoint that it's not
exactly "new" :)

--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

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 by: Rich - Fri, 5 May 2023 14:10 UTC

Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:
> On 2023-05-05, Stefan Ram wrote:
>> Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
>>>Granted, after working in IT for the last 15 years ... I'm pretty sure
>>>"people don't know where they saved their docs" isn't exactly news
>>>either :)
>>
>> For Microsoft® Windows, there's a program called "Everything".
>> One enters a part of a filename, and it shows all matching
>> files in a few seconds (usually less than 10 seconds). People
>> don't have to know where they saved their files any longer.
>
> Sure, but the original post here (and continued discussion) has focused
> on "kids" not knowing where something was saved / not understanding
> filesystem layouts. I'm just making the counterpoint that it's not
> exactly "new" :)

If you go take a look at the original post, it was actually that "kids"
had no actual conceptiual understanding that there were these things
called "files", nor any understanding of what a "filesystem" was. Not
just that they didn't know "where" -- they simply did not understand
"what" in the first place. And without an understanding of "what",
asking "where" was pointless.

The subsequent discussion was what diverged into losing track of
"where" one had saved one's files.

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