On 7/10/2022 10:02 AM, Kerry Main wrote:
>> From: Info-vax <info-vax-bounces@rbnsn.com> On Behalf Of Arne Vajhøj via Info-vax
>> Sent: July-09-22 8:43 PM
>> A recent case: Fedex.
>>
>> They are moving from Cobol/IBM mainframe/own data center to "cloud
>> native"/Azure & Oracle cloud.
>>
>> The CIO announced when this thread was going on that they has already
>> moved 80% of applications and that the remaining 20% would all be done in
>> 2024.
>>
>> He did not mention what "cloud native" covers, but elsewhere it is revealed
>> to be:
>> - Angular for client side
>> - Java and Spring Boot for applications
>> - kubernetes and docker for infrastructure
>>
>> Which is not really surprising. In the 1980's nobody got fired for choosing IBM.
>> Today nobody get fired (in a large conservative
>> company) for choosing above stack.
>
> The case for App modernization as part of changing the companies
> business model from self-supporting to outsourcing (aka public cloud)
> has been around for 40+ years.
There is not much outsourcing involved.

The non-people parts involved are: building space,
servers, network, electricity, cooling, internet
connectivity.

The people parts involved are: security guards,
building maintenance, server & network install,
server & network monitoring.

That is like 99% non-people and 1% people.

> The justification usually means reducing the companies IT staff
> headcount (shows up as big benefit for the financial bottom line).
No.

They keep all their developers and 95+% of their operations
people.

They save on using cheaper stuff (commodity servers instead
of very expensive servers) and from not having data centers.

In the case of Fedex the CIO claims savings of 400 M$ per year.

> While decisions like this at the top of a company like this might
> make the senior execs look they are "forward thinking" to their
> shareholders and CEO, the reality is that "rip-and-replace" projects
> like this inevitably: >
> - cost much more (in some cases, astronomically) than originally budgeted when the full picture is evaluated
> - take much longer than originally anticipated
> - those making this original decision are usually never held accountable for those business model changes

Fedex seems quite happy with how it is going.

> Hence the "upgrade and integrate" strategies are becoming more common
> i.e. private or on-prem cloud with a small bit of public cloud (aka
> hybrid strategy).
They would not save those 400 M$ per year by continuing doing
what they have done the last 40 years.

And the rip and replace cost and risk is the same whether the
target is public cloud or private cloud.

Arne

On 2022-07-09, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
> On 7/9/2022 7:42 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> Which is not really surprising. In the 1980's nobody got fired
>> for choosing IBM. Today nobody get fired (in a large conservative
>> company) for choosing above stack.
>
> But some are more courageous.
>

Would that be the Sir Humphrey definition of "courageous" ? :-)

> Chase and Lloyds have announced that they will be
> replacing their current custom retail banking systems with
> a standard cloud based system Vault developed by a fintech
> startup and (supposedly) written in Go and Python.
>

Well that should be interesting to follow.

Does Go even have the operations and support associated with money
applications ?

For example, a quick look doesn't even reveal a decimal or BCD data type
within Go itself. I've found both decimal and BCD packages for Go on
GitHub which would also seem to suggest they are not part of Go itself.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 7/11/22 14:22, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2022-07-09, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>> On 7/9/2022 7:42 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> Which is not really surprising. In the 1980's nobody got fired
>>> for choosing IBM. Today nobody get fired (in a large conservative
>>> company) for choosing above stack.
>>
>> But some are more courageous.
>>
>
> Would that be the Sir Humphrey definition of "courageous" ? :-)
>
>> Chase and Lloyds have announced that they will be
>> replacing their current custom retail banking systems with
>> a standard cloud based system Vault developed by a fintech
>> startup and (supposedly) written in Go and Python.
>>
>
> Well that should be interesting to follow.
>
> Does Go even have the operations and support associated with money
> applications ?
>
> For example, a quick look doesn't even reveal a decimal or BCD data type
> within Go itself. I've found both decimal and BCD packages for Go on
> GitHub which would also seem to suggest they are not part of Go itself.

We had that for C decades ago. It still didn't make C a good
language for writing financial programs. :-)

bill

On 7/11/2022 2:36 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 7/11/22 14:22, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2022-07-09, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>>> Chase and Lloyds have announced that they will be
>>> replacing their current custom retail banking systems with
>>> a standard cloud based system Vault developed by a fintech
>>> startup and (supposedly) written in Go and Python.
>>>
>>
>> Well that should be interesting to follow.
>>
>> Does Go even have the operations and support associated with money
>> applications ?
>>
>> For example, a quick look doesn't even reveal a decimal or BCD data type
>> within Go itself. I've found both decimal and BCD packages for Go on
>> GitHub which would also seem to suggest they are not part of Go itself.
>
> We had that for C decades ago.  It still didn't make C a good
> language for writing financial programs.  :-)

I am puzzled as well.

Go is not an obvious language for a business program - Go
is more low level and more geared towards infrastructure.

Java, C# etc. would be more obvious.

But maybe we are looking at retail banking system the
wrong way.

Maybe it is not a lot of complex financial operations with
a trivial frontend.

Maybe it is a complex frontend with some trivial financial
operations at the back.

And then Go makes sense.

I don't know. Just thinking out loud.

Arne