Hi.

We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.

Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from traditional
hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the barcode
to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today it is
of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything from
usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.

Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that matches
the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT and
we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our application
design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But that
was before my time...

After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
kind of Lantronix equipment.

Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port terminal
server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
"Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.

One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are getting
harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are not so.

They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two RJ45 jacks
so one usually need an additional adapter cable...

Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case open with
Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.

Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to scan
products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?

We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.

It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.

Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
standard USB cable.

So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
from production lines solving that need?

Regards, Jan-Erik.

On 7/21/22 4:35 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Hi.

Hi,

> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to scan products
> in an assembly line for reporting purposes?

My limited experience with scanners is at Point of Sale (pharmacy) and
library. Both of these systems were PC based and ultimately the scanner
keyed the barcode data in as if the user had typed it in. So there was
nothing special from an application point of view. Venerable Windows
Notepad.exe and MS-DOS command line worked with the scanners perfectly fine.

> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can grip,
> scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response time, no logins
> and "always" beeing available for use.

Is there any feedback other than the beep that most scanners make?

Or is this use case more of an inventory / package tracking thing as in
a given package / article was seen at this point in time?

> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.

I don't think that I've ever seen anything not connected to a PC or some
other computer.

Even your example of an RS-232 connected scanner is still connected to a
computer, it's just that it's a ways away and not in physical proximity
to the scanner.

> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional cable from
> Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the standard USB cable.

Seeing as how the RS-232 connects to a computer /somewhere/, could you
do similar with the USB?

Conceptually, could you connect one (or more) USB scanner(s) to the host
computer via USB and interface with it?

If you can do that, then it seems to me like it's a matter of USB cable
extensions to go from wherever the host computer is to where you want
the scanner to be.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 6:35:20 PM UTC-4, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Hi.
>
> We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.
>
> Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from traditional
> hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
> barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the barcode
> to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today it is
> of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything from
> usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.
>
> Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
> our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that matches
> the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT and
> we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
> of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
> applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
> actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our application
> design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But that
> was before my time...
>
> After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>
> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port terminal
> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>
> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are getting
> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are not so.
>
> They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two RJ45 jacks
> so one usually need an additional adapter cable...
>
> Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case open with
> Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.
>
> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to scan
> products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?
>
> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
> grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
> time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.
>
> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>
> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
> standard USB cable.
>
> So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
> from production lines solving that need?
>
> Regards, Jan-Erik.
An application I supported used standard scanners with bar codes using terminal servers and Lantronix boxes. I know that the terminal servers were set up as RAW TCPIP ports to do this. I don't recall the details, but I do have access to the code and can look it up if needed. All coding was done in Fortran at the time. They also used USB scanners connected to some box that was on the network as well, although I don't recall the manufacturer. A process always had the port open for read.

Dan

On 7/21/2022 6:35 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Hi.
>
> We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.
>
> Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from traditional
> hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
> barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the barcode
> to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today it is
> of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything from
> usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.
>
> Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
> our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that matches
> the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT and
> we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
> of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
> applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
> actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our application
> design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But that
> was before my time...
>
> After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>
> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port terminal
> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>
> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are getting
> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are not so.

I'm surprised there are still RS232 devices.

> They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two RJ45 jacks
> so one usually need an additional adapter cable...
>
> Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case open with
> Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.
>
> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to scan
> products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?
>
> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
> grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
> time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.
>
> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>
> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
> standard USB cable.
>
> So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
> from production lines solving that need?
>
> Regards, Jan-Erik.
>

Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not trying to continue with
yesterday's solutions. Why? Because yesterday's solutions just might no longer
be available.

The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on ethernet, or wifi,
but I trust wires more. Terminal servers are a method of connecting to
ethernet, but I don't know what's still available. A edvice that takes an RJ45
plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd look for.

Failing that, I'd then be looking for devices that live on ethernet, and have
USB ports. That should allow many scanners to be connected.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 5:35:20 PM UTC-5, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:

> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>
> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
> standard USB cable.
>

Yes, it is likely 99% of the USB scanners are connected to PCs. Yet, many automation applications still need plain RS232/Serial output when talking to non-PC systems, like VMS, PDP-11s, PLCs, etc.

Investigate the configuration documentation for your scanner. With a USB cable attached, the default operation is USB HID Keyboard Wedge mode, emulating typed user input at a PC keyboard. Check to see if an alternate USB configuration mode exists for the scanner, which emulates a COM/Serial port over USB.

Some Zebra scanners have such a mode: https://supportcommunity.zebra.com/s/article/Emulating-a-COM-Serial-Port-Over-USB-using-CDC-driver

Next, will the Lantronix SGX 5150 unit "see" the scanner's emulated COM/Serial on port the USB connection, and then can you map to a logical TCP/LAT network connection? Ask Lantronix support. Some IoT units only use the USB connection for configuration console & maintenance purposes.

Duane

On 7/21/2022 8:25 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 7/21/2022 6:35 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Hi.
>>
>> We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.
>>
>> Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from traditional
>> hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
>> barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the barcode
>> to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today it is
>> of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything from
>> usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.
>>
>> Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
>> our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that matches
>> the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT and
>> we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
>> of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
>> applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
>> actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our application
>> design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But that
>> was before my time...
>>
>> After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
>> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
>> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>>
>> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port terminal
>> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
>> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
>> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
>> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>>
>> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are getting
>> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are not so.
>
> I'm surprised there are still RS232 devices.
>
>> They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two RJ45 jacks
>> so one usually need an additional adapter cable...
>>
>> Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case open with
>> Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.
>>
>> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to scan
>> products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?
>>
>> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
>> grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
>> time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.
>>
>> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
>> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>>
>> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
>> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
>> standard USB cable.
>>
>> So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
>> from production lines solving that need?
>>
>> Regards, Jan-Erik.
>>
>
> Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not trying to continue with
> yesterday's solutions. Why? Because yesterday's solutions just might no longer
> be available.
>
> The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on ethernet, or wifi,
> but I trust wires more. Terminal servers are a method of connecting to
> ethernet, but I don't know what's still available. A edvice that takes an RJ45
> plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd look for.
>
> Failing that, I'd then be looking for devices that live on ethernet, and have
> USB ports. That should allow many scanners to be connected.
>

Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC might work.

No keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Just an app that waits for the scanner input,
connects to an app on VMS, sends the scanner info, then goes back to waiting for
the scanner. If interested, we can discuss how to set something like this up.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 7/21/22 9:55 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
> Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC might work.

Perhaps something like a Raspberry Pi?

I'm more than a little serious. A Raspberry Pi or the likes could
easily take the input from the scanner and send it to something on the
network. Ir could even be a single (or few) port terminal server.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Den 2022-07-22 kl. 06:39, skrev Grant Taylor:
> On 7/21/22 9:55 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>> Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC might work.
>
> Perhaps something like a Raspberry Pi?
>
> I'm more than a little serious.  A Raspberry Pi or the likes could easily
> take the input from the scanner and send it to something on the network.
> Ir could even be a single (or few) port terminal server.
>
>
>

Friday morning and I'll catch up with some of the replies... :-)

A common thanks for all replying. Hope you enjoyed some
real life stuff... :-)

Jan-Erik.

-------------------------------------------------------
The following are comments to Grant Taylor:

> My limited experience with scanners is at Point of Sale...

Sure, "Wedge mode". No problem with that. Old scanners had a special
keyboard adapter cable, so that the scanner input came from the same
PS/2 port as anything typed on the kayboard. Today, an USB HID-driver
takes care of filling in the kayboard buffer...

Rest assured that after working with barcodes and scanners for
over 30 years, I do not how scanners worked before and today...

> Is there any feedback other than the beep that most scanners make?

We usually sends commands for different beeping sequences and also
the "blink red LED" or "blink green LED" commands. But you are right,
there is an issue with user feedback. At the stations where this is
important, we also have an screen (a VT-screen) where any messages
or errors are displayed. But the scanner is usally not connected
to that screen. A but tricky since the screens are "thin terminals"
just running an Citrix session. Would need application changes.

> Or is this use case more of an inventory / package tracking thing as
> in a given package / article was seen at this point in time?

Exactly! They assemble chain saws and these are reported along the line.

> Seeing as how the RS-232 connects to a computer /somewhere/, could you
> do similar with the USB?

That was my hope with the Lantronix SGX 5150. Now, you *can* tunnel
the USB port to an IP port, but my problem (open question to Lantronix
support) is that the SGX only provides power on the USB port if it is
setup as "Host", not when setup as "Serial Device", which is a must
to be abel to tunnel the USB port.

> Conceptually, could you connect one (or more) USB scanner(s) to the
> host computer via USB and interface with it?

No, that will not work due to practial reasons. I'm not even sure that
our DS20e's has any USB ports.

-------------------------------------------
Reply to Dan:

> An application I supported used standard scanners with bar codes using
> terminal servers and Lantronix boxes.

Right, that has been our setup for many years.

> I know that the terminal servers were set up as RAW TCPIP ports to do
> this.

Do not have to do anything special, this is mainly what a terminal server
is for. Just enable "tunneling", if it is not "on" by default.

> I don't recall the details, but I do have access to the code and can
look > it up if needed. All coding was done in Fortran at the time.

The Lanronix "tunnels" its RS232 ports by default to IP port 10001
and 10002. That we from VMS in the application startup we just do:

$ Telnet /create 10.32.157.47 10002 7414 -
/protocol=none -
/time=(noidle,recon=0:0:02)

This creates (in this example) a device named TNA7414.
That device is then just written and read (SYS$QIOW) from
a C routine called by our Cobol applications.

Same as it has always been, starting with TXA port and then
LTA (LAT) devices but today only TNA devices. Same C routine
and same QIOW call to the terminal driver.

The application "hangs" i the QIOW waiting for input from the scanner.

> They also used USB scanners connected to some box that was on the
> network as well, although I don't recall the manufacturer.

If you do have any additional information there, fine.

-------------------------------------
And then Daves replies:

> I'm surprised there are still RS232 devices.

I surprised that you are so often surprised... :-)

> Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not trying to
> continue with yesterday's solutions. Why? Because yesterday's
> solutions just might no longer be available.

Hm, right...

> The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on ethernet,
> or wifi, but I trust wires more. Terminal servers are a method of
> connecting to ethernet, but I don't know what's still available.
> A edvice that takes an RJ45 plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd
> look for.

Did you even read my original post?
Have you looked at the Lantronix SGX 5150? Right, Lantronix calls this
box an "IoT Gateway", but it just the old "terminal server" in a modern
package... And it has both two RS232 and one USB (-C) connection.
https://www.lantronix.com/products/sgx-5150/

> ...perhaps a minimal cheap small PC might work.

Yes, one possibility (but needing a changed application architecture)
is to hook up a thin terminal to the wall. We use screens with touch
screens for our web based applications. They run an Windows session
from some Citrix server and USB scanners does work on these by entering
the scanned data into the web application and sent to VMS over the
HTTP connection.

But that is a another setup needing other hardware and support.
And those screens costs 2-3 times as the Lantronix SGX 5150.

-------------------------------------
Duane Krahn:

> Check to see if an alternate USB configuration mode exists for the
> scanner, which emulates a COM/Serial port over USB.

It does, and is called "Serial Mode". Now, for the Lantronix to accept
a "tunnel" to the IP port, the USB port has to be in "Serial Mode" also.
But then it shuts down the power output on the USB port. One of the
points with having an USB scanner (apart from that they are easier to
find on the market), was to have one power source less.

> Ask Lantronix support.

Absolutely. I do have an open tickt with them.

---------------------------------
Grant again:

> Perhaps something like a Raspberry Pi?

Sure, anything can work. :-) And I do know the RasPi well.
This has to be rock solid, preferable out of the box functionality,
in an 24/7 manufacturing environment.

Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:

> After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>
> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port terminal
> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>
> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are getting
> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are not so.
Moxa have been around for years doing ethernet/serial devices, I'd be looking to
see if they have anything that transparently makes USB HID devices look like
serial then serve it over ethernet.

A sort of bastard child between their Nport and Uport devices?

Den 2022-07-22 kl. 10:51, skrev Andy Burns:
> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>
>> After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
>> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
>> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>>
>> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port terminal
>> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
>> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
>> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
>> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>>
>> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are getting
>> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are not so.

> Moxa have been around for years doing ethernet/serial devices, I'd be
> looking to see if they have anything that transparently makes USB HID
> devices look like serial then serve it over ethernet.
>
> A sort of bastard child between their Nport and Uport devices?
>

Yes, we do have some Moxa devices also. Lantronix or Moxa is
totally transparent for the VMS box, we can't tell which it is.

But, since our local factory IT group knows the Moxa devices,
I would had expected them to already suggest something, if Moxa
has something to offer.

I'll take a quick look at the Moxa series of devices...

Thanks!

Jan-Erik.

On 7/21/22 23:55, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 7/21/2022 8:25 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>> On 7/21/2022 6:35 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.
>>>
>>> Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from traditional
>>> hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
>>> barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the barcode
>>> to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today it is
>>> of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything from
>>> usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.
>>>
>>> Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
>>> our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that matches
>>> the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT and
>>> we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
>>> of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
>>> applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
>>> actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our application
>>> design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But that
>>> was before my time...
>>>
>>> After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
>>> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
>>> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>>>
>>> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port terminal
>>> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
>>> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
>>> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
>>> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>>>
>>> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are getting
>>> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are not so.
>>
>> I'm surprised there are still RS232 devices.
>>
>>> They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two RJ45 jacks
>>> so one usually need an additional adapter cable...
>>>
>>> Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case open with
>>> Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.
>>>
>>> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to scan
>>> products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?
>>>
>>> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
>>> grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
>>> time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.
>>>
>>> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
>>> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>>>
>>> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
>>> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
>>> standard USB cable.
>>>
>>> So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
>>> from production lines solving that need?
>>>
>>> Regards, Jan-Erik.
>>>
>>
>> Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not trying to
>> continue with
>> yesterday's solutions.  Why?  Because yesterday's solutions just might
>> no longer
>> be available.
>>
>> The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on ethernet,
>> or wifi,
>> but I trust wires more.  Terminal servers are a method of connecting to
>> ethernet, but I don't know what's still available.  A edvice that
>> takes an RJ45
>> plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd look for.
>>
>> Failing that, I'd then be looking for devices that live on ethernet,
>> and have
>> USB ports.  That should allow many scanners to be connected.
>>
>
> Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC might work.
>
> No keyboard, mouse, and monitor.  Just an app that waits for the scanner
> input, connects to an app on VMS, sends the scanner info, then goes back
> to waiting for the scanner.  If interested, we can discuss how to set
> something like this up.
>

Sounds like a job for a RaspberryPI.

Could even do it with an Arduino, but that would take more work.

bill

Den 2022-07-22 kl. 14:24, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
> On 7/21/22 23:55, Dave Froble wrote:
>> On 7/21/2022 8:25 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>> On 7/21/2022 6:35 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>> Hi.
>>>>
>>>> We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.
>>>>
>>>> Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from traditional
>>>> hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
>>>> barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the barcode
>>>> to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today it is
>>>> of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything from
>>>> usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.
>>>>
>>>> Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
>>>> our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that matches
>>>> the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT and
>>>> we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
>>>> of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
>>>> applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
>>>> actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our application
>>>> design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But that
>>>> was before my time...
>>>>
>>>> After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
>>>> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
>>>> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>>>>
>>>> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port terminal
>>>> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
>>>> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
>>>> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
>>>> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>>>>
>>>> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are getting
>>>> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are not so.
>>>
>>> I'm surprised there are still RS232 devices.
>>>
>>>> They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two RJ45 jacks
>>>> so one usually need an additional adapter cable...
>>>>
>>>> Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case open with
>>>> Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.
>>>>
>>>> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to scan
>>>> products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?
>>>>
>>>> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
>>>> grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
>>>> time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.
>>>>
>>>> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
>>>> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>>>>
>>>> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
>>>> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
>>>> standard USB cable.
>>>>
>>>> So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
>>>> from production lines solving that need?
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Jan-Erik.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not trying to
>>> continue with
>>> yesterday's solutions.  Why?  Because yesterday's solutions just might
>>> no longer
>>> be available.
>>>
>>> The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on ethernet,
>>> or wifi,
>>> but I trust wires more.  Terminal servers are a method of connecting to
>>> ethernet, but I don't know what's still available.  A edvice that takes
>>> an RJ45
>>> plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd look for.
>>>
>>> Failing that, I'd then be looking for devices that live on ethernet, and
>>> have
>>> USB ports.  That should allow many scanners to be connected.
>>>
>>
>> Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC might work.
>>
>> No keyboard, mouse, and monitor.  Just an app that waits for the scanner
>> input, connects to an app on VMS, sends the scanner info, then goes back
>> to waiting for the scanner.  If interested, we can discuss how to set
>> something like this up.
>>
>
> Sounds like a job for a RaspberryPI.
>
> Could even do it with an Arduino, but that would take more work.
>
> bill

If you have read the other replies, RasPi has already been suggested.
And I also replied that I do not find it suitable for an assembly line
environment. And it must standard HW that you can buy from-the-shelf.

This should not be rocket science. There must be many that have needs
to report products in different stages in assembly cells along the line.

I have now also looked at the Moxa devices and they seem to have boxes
that matched what we need and they are also easy to find in the market.
Such as the “Nport 5110”. Cheap enough, I’ll probably buy one and test…

On 7/22/2022 9:15 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2022-07-22 kl. 14:24, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
>> On 7/21/22 23:55, Dave Froble wrote:
>>> On 7/21/2022 8:25 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>> Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not trying to
>>>> continue with
>>>> yesterday's solutions.  Why?  Because yesterday's solutions just
>>>> might no longer
>>>> be available.
>>>>
>>>> The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on
>>>> ethernet, or wifi,
>>>> but I trust wires more.  Terminal servers are a method of connecting to
>>>> ethernet, but I don't know what's still available.  A edvice that
>>>> takes an RJ45
>>>> plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd look for.

>>> Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC might
>>> work.
>>>
>>> No keyboard, mouse, and monitor.  Just an app that waits for the
>>> scanner input, connects to an app on VMS, sends the scanner info,
>>> then goes back to waiting for the scanner.  If interested, we can
>>> discuss how to set something like this up.
>>
>> Sounds like a job for a RaspberryPI.
>>
>> Could even do it with an Arduino, but that would take more work.
>
> If you have read the other replies, RasPi has already been suggested.
> And I also replied that I do not find it suitable for an assembly line
> environment. And it must standard HW that you can buy from-the-shelf.
>
> This should not be rocket science. There must be many that have needs
> to report products in different stages in assembly cells along the line.
>
> I have now also looked at the Moxa devices and they seem to have boxes
> that matched what we need and they are also easy to find in the market.
> Such as the “Nport 5110”. Cheap enough, I’ll probably buy one and test…

Let me start by saying that I know nothing about current scanner
technology.

But I would have thougth you could get a scanner that:
- communicated via WiFi
- when scanned made a web service call with the scanned
data

This is really the PC/RaspberryPI solution - I am just
expecting that computer to be builtin to the scanner
itself.

Arne

Den 2022-07-22 kl. 15:41, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
> On 7/22/2022 9:15 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2022-07-22 kl. 14:24, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
>>> On 7/21/22 23:55, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>> On 7/21/2022 8:25 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>> Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not trying to
>>>>> continue with
>>>>> yesterday's solutions.  Why?  Because yesterday's solutions just might
>>>>> no longer
>>>>> be available.
>>>>>
>>>>> The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on ethernet,
>>>>> or wifi,
>>>>> but I trust wires more.  Terminal servers are a method of connecting to
>>>>> ethernet, but I don't know what's still available.  A edvice that
>>>>> takes an RJ45
>>>>> plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd look for.
>
>>>> Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC might work.
>>>>
>>>> No keyboard, mouse, and monitor.  Just an app that waits for the
>>>> scanner input, connects to an app on VMS, sends the scanner info, then
>>>> goes back to waiting for the scanner.  If interested, we can discuss
>>>> how to set something like this up.
>>>
>>> Sounds like a job for a RaspberryPI.
>>>
>>> Could even do it with an Arduino, but that would take more work.
>>
>> If you have read the other replies, RasPi has already been suggested.
>> And I also replied that I do not find it suitable for an assembly line
>> environment. And it must standard HW that you can buy from-the-shelf.
>>
>> This should not be rocket science. There must be many that have needs
>> to report products in different stages in assembly cells along the line.
>>
>> I have now also looked at the Moxa devices and they seem to have boxes
>> that matched what we need and they are also easy to find in the market.
>> Such as the “Nport 5110”. Cheap enough, I’ll probably buy one and test…
>
> Let me start by saying that I know nothing about current scanner
> technology.
>
> But I would have thougth you could get a scanner that:
> - communicated via WiFi
> - when scanned made a web service call with the scanned
>   data
>
> This is really the PC/RaspberryPI solution - I am just
> expecting that computer to be builtin to the scanner
> itself.
>
> Arne
>

No, have not seen that. The "wire-less" models usualy uses
BT but only against its own combined "base-station/charger".
And *that* one can then have RS232 or in some cases Wifi.

But this is still talking about traditional barcode scanners.
And the most common (I'd say 90 % of all models offered) are
USB, most of the rest are RS232.

Then there are other tools like the Zebra TC-line, and we are
using them for other purposes where we need much more input
from the user (not only the barcode content).

Zebra TCxx is a rugged "phone" running Android. It also have
a professional camera based barcode scanner, not using the
standard camera in the phone. You write a web page that will
make up the "application" in the device.

https://www.zebra.com/gb/en/products/mobile-computers/handheld/tc5x-series.html

But that is a completely different application architecture
on the server side and we need to have VMS accounts setup and
other extra administration.

And yes, in most cases where something is going to be scanned,
there is also a PC running some GUI where the data should end
up, so USB is just fine.

Our users are highly stressed factory floor workers, many
times using glowes. Each report must be subsecond including
reaching for the scanner and putting it back. If something
takes a few extra seconds the management gets crazy. That time
quicly adds up when you make 4-5.000 chain saws a day, 24/7.

On 7/22/22 7:15 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> If you have read the other replies, RasPi has already been suggested.
> And I also replied that I do not find it suitable for an assembly line
> environment.

I suspect that Raspberry Pis are more robust than it seems like you
think they are. I know many that have switched to using Raspberry Pi in
place of industrial PCs. The no moving parts, small form factor, and
small power draw makes them appealing.

If the Raspberry Pi proper won't suffice, there are many other Pis, some
of which are even more robust.

Then there are other small form factor systems that are even more robust.

> And it must standard HW that you can buy from-the-shelf.

I feel like Raspberry Pi (like) devices are probably /easier/ to buy off
the shelf than more highly specialized devices. -- I'm seeing
comparable stocking problems across the board.

I've been able to go into local brick and mortar store to buy Raspberry
Pi (like) devices when all of the Lantronix / Moxa devices discussed are
order only.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

On 07/22/22 14:15, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2022-07-22 kl. 14:24, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
>> On 7/21/22 23:55, Dave Froble wrote:
>>> On 7/21/2022 8:25 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>> On 7/21/2022 6:35 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>
>>>>> We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from traditional
>>>>> hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
>>>>> barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the barcode
>>>>> to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today it is
>>>>> of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything from
>>>>> usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
>>>>> our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that matches
>>>>> the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT and
>>>>> we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
>>>>> of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
>>>>> applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
>>>>> actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our application
>>>>> design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But that
>>>>> was before my time...
>>>>>
>>>>> After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
>>>>> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
>>>>> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port terminal
>>>>> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
>>>>> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
>>>>> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
>>>>> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>>>>>
>>>>> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are getting
>>>>> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are not so.
>>>>
>>>> I'm surprised there are still RS232 devices.
>>>>
>>>>> They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two RJ45 jacks
>>>>> so one usually need an additional adapter cable...
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case open with
>>>>> Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to scan
>>>>> products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?
>>>>>
>>>>> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
>>>>> grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
>>>>> time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
>>>>> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
>>>>> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
>>>>> standard USB cable.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
>>>>> from production lines solving that need?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards, Jan-Erik.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not trying to
>>>> continue with
>>>> yesterday's solutions. Why? Because yesterday's solutions just
>>>> might no longer
>>>> be available.
>>>>
>>>> The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on
>>>> ethernet, or wifi,
>>>> but I trust wires more. Terminal servers are a method of connecting to
>>>> ethernet, but I don't know what's still available. A edvice that
>>>> takes an RJ45
>>>> plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd look for.
>>>>
>>>> Failing that, I'd then be looking for devices that live on ethernet,
>>>> and have
>>>> USB ports. That should allow many scanners to be connected.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC might
>>> work.
>>>
>>> No keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Just an app that waits for the
>>> scanner input, connects to an app on VMS, sends the scanner info,
>>> then goes back to waiting for the scanner. If interested, we can
>>> discuss how to set something like this up.
>>>
>>
>> Sounds like a job for a RaspberryPI.
>>
>> Could even do it with an Arduino, but that would take more work.
>>
>> bill
>
> If you have read the other replies, RasPi has already been suggested.
> And I also replied that I do not find it suitable for an assembly line
> environment. And it must standard HW that you can buy from-the-shelf.
>
> This should not be rocket science. There must be many that have needs
> to report products in different stages in assembly cells along the line.
>
> I have now also looked at the Moxa devices and they seem to have boxes
> that matched what we need and they are also easy to find in the market.
> Such as the “Nport 5110”. Cheap enough, I’ll probably buy one and test…
>
>

I can vouch for the Moxa devices. Have used the 4 port types in the
past and now using an 8 port model to get serial ilom ports onto
the network. Wide variety of modes and functionality, with each serial
line having it's own port number, so in simple mode, can telnet
in with port number to get an ilom login prompt. Startech make single
and dual port types, but they are pc windows oriented and need a
driver on the pc. Used both to drive serial printers in the past.

Small mini-itx industrial pc's are good for that sort of work, often
a couple of serial ports and up to 4 network ports. More work though...

Chris

What about a straight Ethernet barcode scanner?
https://www.keyence.com/landing/lpc/ethernet-barcode-scanner.jsp

Den 2022-07-23 kl. 17:48, skrev chris:
> On 07/22/22 14:15, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2022-07-22 kl. 14:24, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
>>> On 7/21/22 23:55, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>> On 7/21/2022 8:25 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>> On 7/21/2022 6:35 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from traditional
>>>>>> hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
>>>>>> barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the barcode
>>>>>> to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today it is
>>>>>> of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything from
>>>>>> usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
>>>>>> our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that matches
>>>>>> the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT and
>>>>>> we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
>>>>>> of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
>>>>>> applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
>>>>>> actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our application
>>>>>> design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But that
>>>>>> was before my time...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
>>>>>> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
>>>>>> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port terminal
>>>>>> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
>>>>>> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
>>>>>> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
>>>>>> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are getting
>>>>>> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are not so.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm surprised there are still RS232 devices.
>>>>>
>>>>>> They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two RJ45 jacks
>>>>>> so one usually need an additional adapter cable...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case open with
>>>>>> Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to scan
>>>>>> products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
>>>>>> grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
>>>>>> time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
>>>>>> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
>>>>>> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
>>>>>> standard USB cable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
>>>>>> from production lines solving that need?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards, Jan-Erik.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not trying to
>>>>> continue with
>>>>> yesterday's solutions.  Why?  Because yesterday's solutions just
>>>>> might no longer
>>>>> be available.
>>>>>
>>>>> The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on
>>>>> ethernet, or wifi,
>>>>> but I trust wires more.  Terminal servers are a method of connecting to
>>>>> ethernet, but I don't know what's still available.  A edvice that
>>>>> takes an RJ45
>>>>> plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd look for.
>>>>>
>>>>> Failing that, I'd then be looking for devices that live on ethernet,
>>>>> and have
>>>>> USB ports.  That should allow many scanners to be connected.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC might
>>>> work.
>>>>
>>>> No keyboard, mouse, and monitor.  Just an app that waits for the
>>>> scanner input, connects to an app on VMS, sends the scanner info,
>>>> then goes back to waiting for the scanner.  If interested, we can
>>>> discuss how to set something like this up.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds like a job for a RaspberryPI.
>>>
>>> Could even do it with an Arduino, but that would take more work.
>>>
>>> bill
>>
>> If you have read the other replies, RasPi has already been suggested.
>> And I also replied that I do not find it suitable for an assembly line
>> environment. And it must standard HW that you can buy from-the-shelf.
>>
>> This should not be rocket science. There must be many that have needs
>> to report products in different stages in assembly cells along the line.
>>
>> I have now also looked at the Moxa devices and they seem to have boxes
>> that matched what we need and they are also easy to find in the market.
>> Such as the “Nport 5110”. Cheap enough, I’ll probably buy one and test…
>>
>>
>
> I can vouch for the Moxa devices. Have used the 4 port types in the
> past and now using an 8 port model to get serial ilom ports onto
> the network. Wide variety of modes and functionality, with each serial
> line having it's own port number, so in simple mode, can telnet
> in with port number to get an ilom login prompt. Startech make single
> and dual port types, but they are pc windows oriented and need a
> driver on the pc. Used both to drive serial printers in the past.
>
> Small mini-itx industrial pc's are good for that sort of work, often
> a couple of serial ports and up to 4 network ports. More work though...
>
> Chris
>

Agree. A quick look-trough of the Moxa models gives that they are
certenly worth a closer look. I do not understand why our local
HW support group hasn't looked at them. Cheap also, might just order
one for my self to play with while waiting for the summer vacation
period to end... :-)

Jan-Erik.

Den 2022-07-23 kl. 18:43, skrev dthi...@gmail.com:
> What about a straight Ethernet barcode scanner?
> https://www.keyence.com/landing/lpc/ethernet-barcode-scanner.jsp

Thanks! Actually, someone else sent that link by private mail... :-)

Cant say without more studying. We are expecting the "scanner" (rather
the Lantronix, Moxa, whatever box) to have a fixed IP address that our
OpenVMS system can connect to. And an IP-port that "tunnels" to some
sort of source for the scanned data...

Jan-Erik.

On 07/23/22 18:00, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2022-07-23 kl. 17:48, skrev chris:
>> On 07/22/22 14:15, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> Den 2022-07-22 kl. 14:24, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
>>>> On 7/21/22 23:55, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>> On 7/21/2022 8:25 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/21/2022 6:35 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from traditional
>>>>>>> hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
>>>>>>> barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the barcode
>>>>>>> to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today it is
>>>>>>> of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything from
>>>>>>> usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
>>>>>>> our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that matches
>>>>>>> the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT and
>>>>>>> we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
>>>>>>> of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
>>>>>>> applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
>>>>>>> actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our application
>>>>>>> design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But that
>>>>>>> was before my time...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
>>>>>>> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
>>>>>>> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port terminal
>>>>>>> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
>>>>>>> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
>>>>>>> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
>>>>>>> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are getting
>>>>>>> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are not so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm surprised there are still RS232 devices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two RJ45 jacks
>>>>>>> so one usually need an additional adapter cable...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case open with
>>>>>>> Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to scan
>>>>>>> products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
>>>>>>> grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
>>>>>>> time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
>>>>>>> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
>>>>>>> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
>>>>>>> standard USB cable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
>>>>>>> from production lines solving that need?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards, Jan-Erik.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not trying to
>>>>>> continue with
>>>>>> yesterday's solutions. Why? Because yesterday's solutions just
>>>>>> might no longer
>>>>>> be available.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on
>>>>>> ethernet, or wifi,
>>>>>> but I trust wires more. Terminal servers are a method of
>>>>>> connecting to
>>>>>> ethernet, but I don't know what's still available. A edvice that
>>>>>> takes an RJ45
>>>>>> plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd look for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Failing that, I'd then be looking for devices that live on ethernet,
>>>>>> and have
>>>>>> USB ports. That should allow many scanners to be connected.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC might
>>>>> work.
>>>>>
>>>>> No keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Just an app that waits for the
>>>>> scanner input, connects to an app on VMS, sends the scanner info,
>>>>> then goes back to waiting for the scanner. If interested, we can
>>>>> discuss how to set something like this up.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like a job for a RaspberryPI.
>>>>
>>>> Could even do it with an Arduino, but that would take more work.
>>>>
>>>> bill
>>>
>>> If you have read the other replies, RasPi has already been suggested.
>>> And I also replied that I do not find it suitable for an assembly line
>>> environment. And it must standard HW that you can buy from-the-shelf.
>>>
>>> This should not be rocket science. There must be many that have needs
>>> to report products in different stages in assembly cells along the line.
>>>
>>> I have now also looked at the Moxa devices and they seem to have boxes
>>> that matched what we need and they are also easy to find in the market.
>>> Such as the “Nport 5110”. Cheap enough, I’ll probably buy one and test…
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I can vouch for the Moxa devices. Have used the 4 port types in the
>> past and now using an 8 port model to get serial ilom ports onto
>> the network. Wide variety of modes and functionality, with each serial
>> line having it's own port number, so in simple mode, can telnet
>> in with port number to get an ilom login prompt. Startech make single
>> and dual port types, but they are pc windows oriented and need a
>> driver on the pc. Used both to drive serial printers in the past.
>>
>> Small mini-itx industrial pc's are good for that sort of work, often
>> a couple of serial ports and up to 4 network ports. More work though...
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
> Agree. A quick look-trough of the Moxa models gives that they are
> certenly worth a closer look. I do not understand why our local
> HW support group hasn't looked at them. Cheap also, might just order
> one for my self to play with while waiting for the summer vacation
> period to end... :-)
>
> Jan-Erik.
>
>

The 8 port model is an N5610, a 1 u rack mount model with small
lcd display and setup from the front panel to config an initial
ip address etc. RJ45 for the ports, but not standard Cisco console
pinout, so had to make up a patch panel to use standard cables.

Forget the 4 port model, but that also had a small lcd display
and 4 x 9 pin d RS232 connectors, not RJ45, which a 9 pin D scanner
may plug in direct, at at most, need a null model cable. Similar
setups and capability as the 8 port model and compact box with
wall wart power...

Chris

Den 2022-07-24 kl. 02:12, skrev chris:
> On 07/23/22 18:00, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2022-07-23 kl. 17:48, skrev chris:
>>> On 07/22/22 14:15, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>> Den 2022-07-22 kl. 14:24, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
>>>>> On 7/21/22 23:55, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/21/2022 8:25 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/21/2022 6:35 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from traditional
>>>>>>>> hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
>>>>>>>> barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the barcode
>>>>>>>> to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today it is
>>>>>>>> of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything from
>>>>>>>> usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
>>>>>>>> our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that matches
>>>>>>>> the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT and
>>>>>>>> we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
>>>>>>>> of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
>>>>>>>> applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
>>>>>>>> actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our application
>>>>>>>> design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But that
>>>>>>>> was before my time...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
>>>>>>>> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
>>>>>>>> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port terminal
>>>>>>>> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
>>>>>>>> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
>>>>>>>> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
>>>>>>>> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are getting
>>>>>>>> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are not so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm surprised there are still RS232 devices.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two RJ45 jacks
>>>>>>>> so one usually need an additional adapter cable...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case open with
>>>>>>>> Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to scan
>>>>>>>> products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
>>>>>>>> grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
>>>>>>>> time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
>>>>>>>> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
>>>>>>>> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
>>>>>>>> standard USB cable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
>>>>>>>> from production lines solving that need?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards, Jan-Erik.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not trying to
>>>>>>> continue with
>>>>>>> yesterday's solutions.  Why?  Because yesterday's solutions just
>>>>>>> might no longer
>>>>>>> be available.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on
>>>>>>> ethernet, or wifi,
>>>>>>> but I trust wires more.  Terminal servers are a method of
>>>>>>> connecting to
>>>>>>> ethernet, but I don't know what's still available.  A edvice that
>>>>>>> takes an RJ45
>>>>>>> plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd look for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Failing that, I'd then be looking for devices that live on ethernet,
>>>>>>> and have
>>>>>>> USB ports.  That should allow many scanners to be connected.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC might
>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No keyboard, mouse, and monitor.  Just an app that waits for the
>>>>>> scanner input, connects to an app on VMS, sends the scanner info,
>>>>>> then goes back to waiting for the scanner.  If interested, we can
>>>>>> discuss how to set something like this up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like a job for a RaspberryPI.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could even do it with an Arduino, but that would take more work.
>>>>>
>>>>> bill
>>>>
>>>> If you have read the other replies, RasPi has already been suggested.
>>>> And I also replied that I do not find it suitable for an assembly line
>>>> environment. And it must standard HW that you can buy from-the-shelf.
>>>>
>>>> This should not be rocket science. There must be many that have needs
>>>> to report products in different stages in assembly cells along the line.
>>>>
>>>> I have now also looked at the Moxa devices and they seem to have boxes
>>>> that matched what we need and they are also easy to find in the market.
>>>> Such as the “Nport 5110”. Cheap enough, I’ll probably buy one and test…
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I can vouch for the Moxa devices. Have used the 4 port types in the
>>> past and now using an 8 port model to get serial ilom ports onto
>>> the network. Wide variety of modes and functionality, with each serial
>>> line having it's own port number, so in simple mode, can telnet
>>> in with port number to get an ilom login prompt. Startech make single
>>> and dual port types, but they are pc windows oriented and need a
>>> driver on the pc. Used both to drive serial printers in the past.
>>>
>>> Small mini-itx industrial pc's are good for that sort of work, often
>>> a couple of serial ports and up to 4 network ports. More work though...
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>
>> Agree. A quick look-trough of the Moxa models gives that they are
>> certenly worth a closer look. I do not understand why our local
>> HW support group hasn't looked at them. Cheap also, might just order
>> one for my self to play with while waiting for the summer vacation
>> period to end... :-)
>>
>> Jan-Erik.
>>
>>
>
> The 8 port model is an N5610, a 1 u rack mount model with small
> lcd display and setup from the front panel to config an initial
> ip address etc. RJ45 for the ports, but not standard Cisco console
> pinout, so had to make up a patch panel to use standard cables.
>
> Forget the 4 port model, but that also had a small lcd display
> and 4 x 9 pin d RS232 connectors, not RJ45, which a 9 pin D scanner
> may plug in direct, at at most, need a null model cable. Similar
> setups and capability as the 8 port model and compact box with
> wall wart power...
>
> Chris

On 07/24/22 12:29, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2022-07-24 kl. 02:12, skrev chris:
>> On 07/23/22 18:00, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> Den 2022-07-23 kl. 17:48, skrev chris:
>>>> On 07/22/22 14:15, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>> Den 2022-07-22 kl. 14:24, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
>>>>>> On 7/21/22 23:55, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/21/2022 8:25 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/21/2022 6:35 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from traditional
>>>>>>>>> hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
>>>>>>>>> barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the barcode
>>>>>>>>> to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today it is
>>>>>>>>> of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything from
>>>>>>>>> usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
>>>>>>>>> our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that matches
>>>>>>>>> the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT and
>>>>>>>>> we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
>>>>>>>>> of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
>>>>>>>>> applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
>>>>>>>>> actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our application
>>>>>>>>> design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But that
>>>>>>>>> was before my time...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
>>>>>>>>> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
>>>>>>>>> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port terminal
>>>>>>>>> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
>>>>>>>>> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
>>>>>>>>> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
>>>>>>>>> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are getting
>>>>>>>>> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are not so.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm surprised there are still RS232 devices.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two RJ45
>>>>>>>>> jacks
>>>>>>>>> so one usually need an additional adapter cable...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case open
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to scan
>>>>>>>>> products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
>>>>>>>>> grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
>>>>>>>>> time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
>>>>>>>>> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
>>>>>>>>> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
>>>>>>>>> standard USB cable.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
>>>>>>>>> from production lines solving that need?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards, Jan-Erik.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not trying to
>>>>>>>> continue with
>>>>>>>> yesterday's solutions. Why? Because yesterday's solutions just
>>>>>>>> might no longer
>>>>>>>> be available.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on
>>>>>>>> ethernet, or wifi,
>>>>>>>> but I trust wires more. Terminal servers are a method of
>>>>>>>> connecting to
>>>>>>>> ethernet, but I don't know what's still available. A edvice that
>>>>>>>> takes an RJ45
>>>>>>>> plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd look for.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Failing that, I'd then be looking for devices that live on
>>>>>>>> ethernet,
>>>>>>>> and have
>>>>>>>> USB ports. That should allow many scanners to be connected.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC might
>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Just an app that waits for the
>>>>>>> scanner input, connects to an app on VMS, sends the scanner info,
>>>>>>> then goes back to waiting for the scanner. If interested, we can
>>>>>>> discuss how to set something like this up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds like a job for a RaspberryPI.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Could even do it with an Arduino, but that would take more work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bill
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have read the other replies, RasPi has already been suggested.
>>>>> And I also replied that I do not find it suitable for an assembly line
>>>>> environment. And it must standard HW that you can buy from-the-shelf.
>>>>>
>>>>> This should not be rocket science. There must be many that have needs
>>>>> to report products in different stages in assembly cells along the
>>>>> line.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have now also looked at the Moxa devices and they seem to have boxes
>>>>> that matched what we need and they are also easy to find in the
>>>>> market.
>>>>> Such as the “Nport 5110”. Cheap enough, I’ll probably buy one and
>>>>> test…
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I can vouch for the Moxa devices. Have used the 4 port types in the
>>>> past and now using an 8 port model to get serial ilom ports onto
>>>> the network. Wide variety of modes and functionality, with each serial
>>>> line having it's own port number, so in simple mode, can telnet
>>>> in with port number to get an ilom login prompt. Startech make single
>>>> and dual port types, but they are pc windows oriented and need a
>>>> driver on the pc. Used both to drive serial printers in the past.
>>>>
>>>> Small mini-itx industrial pc's are good for that sort of work, often
>>>> a couple of serial ports and up to 4 network ports. More work though...
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>
>>> Agree. A quick look-trough of the Moxa models gives that they are
>>> certenly worth a closer look. I do not understand why our local
>>> HW support group hasn't looked at them. Cheap also, might just order
>>> one for my self to play with while waiting for the summer vacation
>>> period to end... :-)
>>>
>>> Jan-Erik.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The 8 port model is an N5610, a 1 u rack mount model with small
>> lcd display and setup from the front panel to config an initial
>> ip address etc. RJ45 for the ports, but not standard Cisco console
>> pinout, so had to make up a patch panel to use standard cables.
>>
>> Forget the 4 port model, but that also had a small lcd display
>> and 4 x 9 pin d RS232 connectors, not RJ45, which a 9 pin D scanner
>> may plug in direct, at at most, need a null model cable. Similar
>> setups and capability as the 8 port model and compact box with
>> wall wart power...
>>
>> Chris
>
> OK. This is usually about a single scanner at each location within one
> scanner cable distance. So single port devices will be fine. Or maybe
> dual port (same size, and close to the same price). Just screwed to
> the wall.
>

Den 2022-07-24 kl. 14:10, skrev chris:
> On 07/24/22 12:29, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2022-07-24 kl. 02:12, skrev chris:
>>> On 07/23/22 18:00, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>> Den 2022-07-23 kl. 17:48, skrev chris:
>>>>> On 07/22/22 14:15, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>> Den 2022-07-22 kl. 14:24, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
>>>>>>> On 7/21/22 23:55, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/21/2022 8:25 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/21/2022 6:35 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from traditional
>>>>>>>>>> hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
>>>>>>>>>> barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the barcode
>>>>>>>>>> to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today it is
>>>>>>>>>> of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything from
>>>>>>>>>> usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
>>>>>>>>>> our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that matches
>>>>>>>>>> the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT and
>>>>>>>>>> we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
>>>>>>>>>> of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
>>>>>>>>>> applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
>>>>>>>>>> actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our application
>>>>>>>>>> design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But that
>>>>>>>>>> was before my time...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
>>>>>>>>>> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
>>>>>>>>>> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port terminal
>>>>>>>>>> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
>>>>>>>>>> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
>>>>>>>>>> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
>>>>>>>>>> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are getting
>>>>>>>>>> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are not so.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm surprised there are still RS232 devices.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two RJ45
>>>>>>>>>> jacks
>>>>>>>>>> so one usually need an additional adapter cable...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case open
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to scan
>>>>>>>>>> products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
>>>>>>>>>> grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
>>>>>>>>>> time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
>>>>>>>>>> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
>>>>>>>>>> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
>>>>>>>>>> standard USB cable.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
>>>>>>>>>> from production lines solving that need?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards, Jan-Erik.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Faced with such an issue, I would be looking ahead, not trying to
>>>>>>>>> continue with
>>>>>>>>> yesterday's solutions.  Why?  Because yesterday's solutions just
>>>>>>>>> might no longer
>>>>>>>>> be available.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The first thing I'd be looking for is a device that lives on
>>>>>>>>> ethernet, or wifi,
>>>>>>>>> but I trust wires more.  Terminal servers are a method of
>>>>>>>>> connecting to
>>>>>>>>> ethernet, but I don't know what's still available.  A edvice that
>>>>>>>>> takes an RJ45
>>>>>>>>> plug and talks TCP/IP would be what I'd look for.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Failing that, I'd then be looking for devices that live on
>>>>>>>>> ethernet,
>>>>>>>>> and have
>>>>>>>>> USB ports.  That should allow many scanners to be connected.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps a minimal cheap small PC might
>>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No keyboard, mouse, and monitor.  Just an app that waits for the
>>>>>>>> scanner input, connects to an app on VMS, sends the scanner info,
>>>>>>>> then goes back to waiting for the scanner.  If interested, we can
>>>>>>>> discuss how to set something like this up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds like a job for a RaspberryPI.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could even do it with an Arduino, but that would take more work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bill
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you have read the other replies, RasPi has already been suggested.
>>>>>> And I also replied that I do not find it suitable for an assembly line
>>>>>> environment. And it must standard HW that you can buy from-the-shelf.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This should not be rocket science. There must be many that have needs
>>>>>> to report products in different stages in assembly cells along the
>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have now also looked at the Moxa devices and they seem to have boxes
>>>>>> that matched what we need and they are also easy to find in the
>>>>>> market.
>>>>>> Such as the “Nport 5110”. Cheap enough, I’ll probably buy one and
>>>>>> test…
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I can vouch for the Moxa devices. Have used the 4 port types in the
>>>>> past and now using an 8 port model to get serial ilom ports onto
>>>>> the network. Wide variety of modes and functionality, with each serial
>>>>> line having it's own port number, so in simple mode, can telnet
>>>>> in with port number to get an ilom login prompt. Startech make single
>>>>> and dual port types, but they are pc windows oriented and need a
>>>>> driver on the pc. Used both to drive serial printers in the past.
>>>>>
>>>>> Small mini-itx industrial pc's are good for that sort of work, often
>>>>> a couple of serial ports and up to 4 network ports. More work though...
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Agree. A quick look-trough of the Moxa models gives that they are
>>>> certenly worth a closer look. I do not understand why our local
>>>> HW support group hasn't looked at them. Cheap also, might just order
>>>> one for my self to play with while waiting for the summer vacation
>>>> period to end... :-)
>>>>
>>>> Jan-Erik.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> The 8 port model is an N5610, a 1 u rack mount model with small
>>> lcd display and setup from the front panel to config an initial
>>> ip address etc. RJ45 for the ports, but not standard Cisco console
>>> pinout, so had to make up a patch panel to use standard cables.
>>>
>>> Forget the 4 port model, but that also had a small lcd display
>>> and 4 x 9 pin d RS232 connectors, not RJ45, which a 9 pin D scanner
>>> may plug in direct, at at most, need a null model cable. Similar
>>> setups and capability as the 8 port model and compact box with
>>> wall wart power...
>>>
>>> Chris
>>
>> OK. This is usually about a single scanner at each location within one
>> scanner cable distance. So single port devices will be fine. Or maybe
>> dual port (same size, and close to the same price). Just screwed to
>> the wall.
>>
>
> Black box made similar devices, but sure if they are still in
> business. I would still go for the Moxa devices here, as they are
> a known quantity, easy to setup and just fit and forget. Quite
> often see them s/h on Ebay as well, if you need one for your
> own evaluation.

On 7/22/2022 11:48 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2022-07-22 kl. 15:41, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>> On 7/22/2022 9:15 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> Den 2022-07-22 kl. 14:24, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
>>>> On 7/21/22 23:55, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>> No keyboard, mouse, and monitor.  Just an app that waits for the
>>>>> scanner input, connects to an app on VMS, sends the scanner info,
>>>>> then goes back to waiting for the scanner.  If interested, we can
>>>>> discuss how to set something like this up.
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like a job for a RaspberryPI.
>>>>
>>>> Could even do it with an Arduino, but that would take more work.
>>>
>>> If you have read the other replies, RasPi has already been suggested.
>>> And I also replied that I do not find it suitable for an assembly line
>>> environment. And it must standard HW that you can buy from-the-shelf.
>>>
>>> This should not be rocket science. There must be many that have needs
>>> to report products in different stages in assembly cells along the line.
>>>
>>> I have now also looked at the Moxa devices and they seem to have boxes
>>> that matched what we need and they are also easy to find in the market.
>>> Such as the “Nport 5110”. Cheap enough, I’ll probably buy one and test…
>>
>> Let me start by saying that I know nothing about current scanner
>> technology.
>>
>> But I would have thougth you could get a scanner that:
>> - communicated via WiFi
>> - when scanned made a web service call with the scanned
>>    data
>>
>> This is really the PC/RaspberryPI solution - I am just
>> expecting that computer to be builtin to the scanner
>> itself.
>
> No, have not seen that. The "wire-less" models usualy uses
> BT but only against its own combined "base-station/charger".
> And *that* one can then have RS232 or in some cases Wifi.
>
> But this is still talking about traditional barcode scanners.
> And the most common (I'd say 90 % of all models offered) are
> USB, most of the rest are RS232.
>
> Then there are other tools like the Zebra TC-line, and we are
> using them for other purposes where we need much more input
> from the user (not only the barcode content).
>
> Zebra TCxx is a rugged "phone" running Android. It also have
> a professional camera based barcode scanner, not using the
> standard camera in the phone. You write a web page that will
> make up the "application" in the device.
>
> https://www.zebra.com/gb/en/products/mobile-computers/handheld/tc5x-series.html
>
>
> But that is a completely different application architecture
> on the server side and we need to have VMS accounts setup and
> other extra administration.
>
> And yes, in most cases where something is going to be scanned,
> there is also a PC running some GUI where the data should end
> up, so USB is just fine.

OK.

I was just thinking that:

smart scanner--->some Python web service running on VMS or Linux or
Windows--->message queue--->applications (Cobol on VMS, whatever on
Linux, whatever on Windows)

sounded cool.

But I don't know about scanners and I don't know about
your environment.

Arne

On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 8:35:20 AM UTC+10, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Hi.
>
> We/I currently struggle with somewhat of an issue.
>
> Our VMS system has for 30+ years received inout from traditional
> hand scanners. From the very begining it was those pen-like
> barcode scannes where you needed to "draw a line" over the barcode
> to read it. HP made some popular models at the time. Today it is
> of course modern "camera based" scanners that read anything from
> usual 1D barcodes to 2D codes like QR.
>
> Now, these have always been connected to terminal servers and
> our VMS system connect to the IP adress and IP port that matches
> the RS232 port on the terminal server. Long ago this was LAT and
> we connected a LTA device pointing to the node and service
> of he RS232 port, but LAT or TCP is totalt transparent to the
> applications. From the very start (11/730 time frame) it was
> actually physical TXAnnn serial interfaces, but our application
> design has stayed the same using the same QIOW calls. But that
> was before my time...
>
> After switching to network based equipment a long time ago, it
> has been boxes from DECserver 200, DECserver 90 and different
> kind of Lantronix equipment.
>
> Now, the current hardware, "Lantronix WiBox", a two port terminal
> server with Wifi and everythig, has gone out of market. I have
> the replacement box "Lantronix SGX 5150" and test scanner
> "Honeywell Xenon 1950" on my desk. The scanner is currently
> connected to the USB-C port of the SGX 5150.
>
> One additonal issue is that hand scanners using RS232 are getting
> harder to get with longer delivery times, USB scanners are not so.
>
> They have also moved RS232 from two DB9 connectors to two RJ45 jacks
> so one usually need an additional adapter cable...
>
> Now, I have some issues to set this up, but I have a case open with
> Lantronix support so let's not get into those details.
>
> Lat me just ask, isn't there anyone else having a need to scan
> products in an assembly line for reporting purposes?
>
> We just need a scanner hanging on the wall that the user can
> grip, scan and hang it back. This needs sub-second response
> time, no logins and "always" beeing available for use.
>
> It seems as the market thinks that, if you have a hand scanner,
> you also absolutely have an PC to connect it to.
>
> Now, I'm sure that it will work by having the RS232 optional
> cable from Honeywell, but that is not as easy to find as the
> standard USB cable.
>
> So, how are others having reporting needs using hand scanners
> from production lines solving that need?
>
> Regards, Jan-Erik.

I'm no expert on scanners but I have read a number of lengthy discussions around PLC's vs Raspberry Pi's in production environments

The consensus is that PLC's are in a world of reliability that Raspberry Pi's cannot even get remotely close to

Depending on the frequency and needed reliability of the hand scanner operation, maybe a hand scanner to a PLC might be what the doctor ordered?

https://www.rtautomation.com/product/scndr/

I have no idea about the environment the hand scanner is operating in, maybe a hardened PC will suffice, but if the environment is harsh, then from what I've read, PLC's are the VMS equivalent to maximizing uptime

When I worked at StarTrack (logistic company) they had a huge setup with scanners on conveyor belts handling 1000's of items per minute but their handheld scanners were I think BlackBay hand scanners?

They are more for delivery persons than on a fixed corded solution, maybe they have a corded option?