I am interested in trying out Wayland.

On Gentoo it is very simple. Just emerge Wayland and associated
programs (Xwayland, etc.) and then add "wayland" to the global
USE flags which will re-build all software that has wayland
capability (e.g. GTK+, Qt).

But then what? How do I start Wayland?

Currently, I boot into the Linux console and then start X Window
using the "startx" command. This, along with info in .xinitrc
and .Xresources will bring up X.

How do I do the same for Wayland?

This web site just says to start the wayland compositor and that
will bring up Wayland:

https://www.fosskers.ca/en/blog/wayland

"Now exit whatever desktop environment/window manager you're in,
and drop down to your basic login terminal. From here, run Sway
and Sway should start. Congratulations, you're running Wayland!"

"Sway" is the compositor which he uses but will any other compositor
do the same?

Please note that I need an answer from a GNU/Linux expert.
I don't use GNOME/KDE or any display managers. I need to
know the basic commands that will bring up Wayland from the
Linux console.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 11:19:39 -0500, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:

> I am interested in trying out Wayland.
>
> On Gentoo it is very simple. Just emerge Wayland and associated
> programs (Xwayland, etc.) and then add "wayland" to the global
> USE flags which will re-build all software that has wayland
> capability (e.g. GTK+, Qt).
>
> But then what? How do I start Wayland?
>
> Currently, I boot into the Linux console and then start X Window
> using the "startx" command. This, along with info in .xinitrc
> and .Xresources will bring up X.
>
> How do I do the same for Wayland?

Instead of running "startx startkde" or "startx startgnome", run
for kde plasma run "XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland",
for gnome run "XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session gnome-session".

I too prefer to boot to run level 3 (aka multi-user.target under systemd). Not
using a display manager like sddm or gdm means one less thing that can go wrong.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 12:37:02 -0500, David W. Hodgins wrote:

>
> Instead of running "startx startkde" or "startx startgnome", run
> for kde plasma run "XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland",
> for gnome run "XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session gnome-session".
>

Thanks for you response, but I should have indicated that I don't use
either GNOME or KDE. I currently use only the fvwm3 window manager under
X.

Both GNOME and KDE have their own Wayland compositors. But I want to begin
with the independent Hikari compositor:

https://hikari.acmelabs.space/

Is starting Hikari from the Linux console sufficient to bring up Wayland?

Farley Flud wrote:
> I currently use only the fvwm3 window manager under X.

This long '24 Feb msg would suggest that is a no-go for wayland.

https://www.mail-archive.com/fvwm@fvwm.org/msg03866.html

> So, a "port" of fvwm to Wayland? No. Impossible.

--
Mike Easter

Mike Easter wrote:
> Farley Flud wrote:
>> I currently use only the fvwm3 window manager under X.
>
> This long '24 Feb msg would suggest that is a no-go for wayland.
>
You could go to sway which is like i3.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/sway

--
Mike Easter

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 16:31:02 -0500, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:

> On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 12:37:02 -0500, David W. Hodgins wrote:
>
>>
>> Instead of running "startx startkde" or "startx startgnome", run
>> for kde plasma run "XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland",
>> for gnome run "XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session gnome-session".
>>
>
> Thanks for you response, but I should have indicated that I don't use
> either GNOME or KDE. I currently use only the fvwm3 window manager under
> X.
>
> Both GNOME and KDE have their own Wayland compositors. But I want to begin
> with the independent Hikari compositor:
>
> https://hikari.acmelabs.space/
>
> Is starting Hikari from the Linux console sufficient to bring up Wayland?

As far as I know, Gnome and KDE Plasma are the only desktop environments Mageia 9
has that currently support wayland, and sddm/gdm the only desktop managers.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

On 11/02/24 00:44, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 16:31:02 -0500, Farley Flud
> <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 12:37:02 -0500, David W. Hodgins wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Instead of running "startx startkde" or "startx
>>> startgnome", run
>>> for kde plasma run "XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland
>>> dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland",
>>> for gnome run "XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session
>>> gnome-session".
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for you response, but I should have indicated that
>> I don't use
>> either GNOME or KDE.  I currently use only the fvwm3
>> window manager under
>> X.
>>
>> Both GNOME and KDE have their own Wayland compositors.
>> But I want to begin
>> with the independent Hikari compositor:
>>
>>  https://hikari.acmelabs.space/
>>
>> Is starting Hikari from the Linux console sufficient to
>> bring up Wayland?
>
> As far as I know, Gnome and KDE Plasma are the only desktop
> environments Mageia 9
> has that currently support wayland, and sddm/gdm the only
> desktop managers.
>
> Regards, Dave Hodgins

I run Debian Bookworm with xfce 4.18.1
what commands should I give to discover whether I am still
using X-server or wayland ?
tnx in advance.

--
1) Resistere, resistere, resistere.
2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti
MarioCPPP

On 13/02/24 13:23, MarioCCCP wrote:
> On 11/02/24 00:44, David W. Hodgins wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 16:31:02 -0500, Farley Flud
>> <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 12:37:02 -0500, David W. Hodgins wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Instead of running "startx startkde" or "startx
>>>> startgnome", run
>>>> for kde plasma run "XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland
>>>> dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland",
>>>> for gnome run "XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland dbus-run-session
>>>> gnome-session".
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for you response, but I should have indicated that
>>> I don't use
>>> either GNOME or KDE.  I currently use only the fvwm3
>>> window manager under
>>> X.
>>>
>>> Both GNOME and KDE have their own Wayland compositors.
>>> But I want to begin
>>> with the independent Hikari compositor:
>>>
>>>  https://hikari.acmelabs.space/
>>>
>>> Is starting Hikari from the Linux console sufficient to
>>> bring up Wayland?
>>
>> As far as I know, Gnome and KDE Plasma are the only
>> desktop environments Mageia 9
>> has that currently support wayland, and sddm/gdm the only
>> desktop managers.
>>
>> Regards, Dave Hodgins
>
>
> I run Debian Bookworm with xfce 4.18.1
> what commands should I give to discover whether I am still
> using X-server or wayland ?
> tnx in advance.
>
>
mmm, running INXI -G I possibly just got an answer.
Here the output
inxi -G
Graphics:
Device-1: Intel CoffeeLake-S GT2 [UHD Graphics 630]
driver: i915 v: kernel
Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 driver: X: loaded:
modesetting
unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: iris gpu: i915 resolution:
3840x2160~60Hz
API: OpenGL v: 4.6 Mesa 22.3.6 renderer: Mesa Intel UHD
Graphics 630 (CFL GT2)
So it seems (to me) I am still relying on X-server, am I right ?

--
1) Resistere, resistere, resistere.
2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti
MarioCPPP

On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 07:25:24 -0500, MarioCCCP <NoliMihiFrangereMentulam@libero.it> wrote:
<snip>
> mmm, running INXI -G I possibly just got an answer.
> Here the output
> inxi -G
> Graphics:
> Device-1: Intel CoffeeLake-S GT2 [UHD Graphics 630]
> driver: i915 v: kernel
> Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 driver: X: loaded:
> modesetting
> unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: iris gpu: i915 resolution:
> 3840x2160~60Hz
> API: OpenGL v: 4.6 Mesa 22.3.6 renderer: Mesa Intel UHD
> Graphics 630 (CFL GT2)
>
> So it seems (to me) I am still relying on X-server, am I right ?

Yes. X11/Xorg will remain available for years (possibly decades), as wayland does
not work on some older hardware, and many desktop environments and applications
have not be changed to support it yet.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

On 2024-02-13, David W. Hodgins <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 07:25:24 -0500, MarioCCCP <NoliMihiFrangereMentulam@libero.it> wrote:
><snip>
>> mmm, running INXI -G I possibly just got an answer.
>> Here the output
>> inxi -G
>> Graphics:
>> Device-1: Intel CoffeeLake-S GT2 [UHD Graphics 630]
>> driver: i915 v: kernel
>> Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 driver: X: loaded:
>> modesetting
>> unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: iris gpu: i915 resolution:
>> 3840x2160~60Hz
>> API: OpenGL v: 4.6 Mesa 22.3.6 renderer: Mesa Intel UHD
>> Graphics 630 (CFL GT2)
>>
>> So it seems (to me) I am still relying on X-server, am I right ?
>
> Yes. X11/Xorg will remain available for years (possibly decades),

X12 has been announced. But yeah could be years.

> as wayland does not work on some older hardware,

and neither on some new hardware. eg. Nvidia.

--
Jasen.
🇺🇦 Слава Україні

Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> writes:
> X12 has been announced. But yeah could be years.

Where?

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

On 2/26/24 04:59, Jasen Betts wrote:
> On 2024-02-13, David W. Hodgins <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 07:25:24 -0500, MarioCCCP <NoliMihiFrangereMentulam@libero.it> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> mmm, running INXI -G I possibly just got an answer.
>>> Here the output
>>> inxi -G
>>> Graphics:
>>> Device-1: Intel CoffeeLake-S GT2 [UHD Graphics 630]
>>> driver: i915 v: kernel
>>> Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 driver: X: loaded:
>>> modesetting
>>> unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: iris gpu: i915 resolution:
>>> 3840x2160~60Hz
>>> API: OpenGL v: 4.6 Mesa 22.3.6 renderer: Mesa Intel UHD
>>> Graphics 630 (CFL GT2)
>>>
>>> So it seems (to me) I am still relying on X-server, am I right ?
>>
>> Yes. X11/Xorg will remain available for years (possibly decades),
>
> X12 has been announced. But yeah could be years.
>
>> as wayland does not work on some older hardware,
>
> and neither on some new hardware. eg. Nvidia.
>

Just been through that with OpenSuse Tumblweed and Slowroll.

I don't know why but neither systemd nor wayland remind me of democracy;
more specifically that it isn't the right or the wrong that counts at
all but the *administrative prerogative* i.e. the want.

On 2024-02-26, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> writes:
>> X12 has been announced. But yeah could be years.
>
> Where?

https://www.x.org/wiki/Development/X12/

From that page it seems to be at the wishlist stage

--
Jasen.
🇺🇦 Слава Україні

Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> writes:
> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> writes:
>>> X12 has been announced. But yeah could be years.
>>
>> Where?
>
> https://www.x.org/wiki/Development/X12/
>
> From that page it seems to be at the wishlist stage

That’s very much not a project announcement. It says:

This is not to say that there's an X12 project. There isn't. But if
one day there is...

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

On Wed, 28 Feb 2024 12:25:05 +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

>
> That’s very much not a project announcement. It says:
>
> This is not to say that there's an X12 project. There isn't. But if
> one day there is...
>

It required nearly 20 years for Wayland to reach its present, somewhat
pitiful, state. How long will it take X12 to achieve all the lofty goals
stated within the article?

I would guess the 22nd century.

On 2024-02-28, Nuxxie <nuxxie@linux.rocks> wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2024 12:25:05 +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>
>>
>> That’s very much not a project announcement. It says:
>>
>> This is not to say that there's an X12 project. There isn't. But if
>> one day there is...
>>
>
> It required nearly 20 years for Wayland to reach its present, somewhat
> pitiful, state. How long will it take X12 to achieve all the lofty goals
> stated within the article?
>
> I would guess the 22nd century.

Bit harsh, but X12 might take a while to develop. My guess is that X11
backwrds compatibility might be an issue.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 28/02/24 13:25, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> writes:
>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> writes:
>>>> X12 has been announced. But yeah could be years.
>>>
>>> Where?
>>
>> https://www.x.org/wiki/Development/X12/
>>
>> From that page it seems to be at the wishlist stage
>
> That’s very much not a project announcement. It says:
>
> This is not to say that there's an X12 project. There isn't. But if
> one day there is...
>
There is an X12 project. It's called Wayland and it sucks in many ways.
Classic second system effect.

On 2/28/2024 1:49 PM, immibis wrote:
> On 28/02/24 13:25, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>> Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> writes:
>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> writes:
>>>>> X12 has been announced.  But yeah could be years.
>>>>
>>>> Where?
>>>
>>> https://www.x.org/wiki/Development/X12/
>>>
>>>  From that page it seems to be at the wishlist stage
>>
>> That’s very much not a project announcement. It says:
>>
>>    This is not to say that there's an X12 project. There isn't. But if
>>    one day there is...
>>
> There is an X12 project. It's called Wayland and it sucks in many ways. Classic second system effect.

At least you can get a diagram here.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/The_Linux_Graphics_Stack_and_glamor.svg

( https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Wayland_%28display_server_protocol%29 )

Paul

On 29/02/24 05:44, Paul wrote:
> On 2/28/2024 1:49 PM, immibis wrote:
>> On 28/02/24 13:25, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>> Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> writes:
>>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> writes:
>>>>>> X12 has been announced.  But yeah could be years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where?
>>>>
>>>> https://www.x.org/wiki/Development/X12/
>>>>
>>>>  From that page it seems to be at the wishlist stage
>>>
>>> That’s very much not a project announcement. It says:
>>>
>>>    This is not to say that there's an X12 project. There isn't. But if
>>>    one day there is...
>>>
>> There is an X12 project. It's called Wayland and it sucks in many ways. Classic second system effect.
>
> At least you can get a diagram here.
>
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/The_Linux_Graphics_Stack_and_glamor.svg
>
> ( https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Wayland_%28display_server_protocol%29 )
>
> Paul

Seems pretty inaccurate. Most 3D game engines are either X or Wayland
clients. Most X clients use direct rendering most of the time, just like
Wayland clients. Aren't proprietary blobs part of DRM? Mesa 3D should be
stacked below Wayland servers and 3D game engines, since they depend
heavily on it.