Jeffrey H. Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> wrote:

>
> While trying to resuscitate an LK464 keyboard that had drowned in
> coffee, I notice the circuit board said "Cherry" on it. I called the
> company and got someone technical and they said yes they could restart
> production on them but the minimum order was, as I remember, 10,000.
> .
During my client’s COVID work-from-home period last year, I partially
revived a LK45X word processor keyboard (Ps/2 connector) that I’d picked up
on EBay as is for about $15 US. When I opened it up, it appeared to have
had a cola spilled in it, then been subjected to something heavy sitting on
the keyboard for a good while.

After I thoroughly cleaned it, it wasn’t much trouble to repair the
conductive tracery. And the circuit board was just fine already. But I was
stymied by the half dozen or so crushed dome “springs”.

Not being able to find another so cheaply for parts, I’ve just been letting
it sit in the closet. It may have something to do with my decision a few
weeks ago to give away my working though seldom used DS10 I’d hoped to use
it with.

I really liked the LK4XX line for its ergonomics. Among other keyboards,
the older Mac USB keyboards (before the ridiculous low profile ones) and a
numeric keypad are pretty good but harder on my fingers. Mine, which I’ve
had for 21 years, is getting a bit stiff to operate (as are my fingers
themselves).

On Saturday, July 23, 2022 at 11:08:32 AM UTC+10, Galen wrote:
> Jeffrey H. Coffield <jef...@digitalsynergyinc.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > While trying to resuscitate an LK464 keyboard that had drowned in
> > coffee, I notice the circuit board said "Cherry" on it. I called the
> > company and got someone technical and they said yes they could restart
> > production on them but the minimum order was, as I remember, 10,000.
> > .
> During my client’s COVID work-from-home period last year, I partially
> revived a LK45X word processor keyboard (Ps/2 connector) that I’d picked up
> on EBay as is for about $15 US. When I opened it up, it appeared to have
> had a cola spilled in it, then been subjected to something heavy sitting on
> the keyboard for a good while.
>
> After I thoroughly cleaned it, it wasn’t much trouble to repair the
> conductive tracery. And the circuit board was just fine already. But I was
> stymied by the half dozen or so crushed dome “springs”.
>
> Not being able to find another so cheaply for parts, I’ve just been letting
> it sit in the closet. It may have something to do with my decision a few
> weeks ago to give away my working though seldom used DS10 I’d hoped to use
> it with.
>
> I really liked the LK4XX line for its ergonomics. Among other keyboards,
> the older Mac USB keyboards (before the ridiculous low profile ones) and a
> numeric keypad are pretty good but harder on my fingers. Mine, which I’ve
> had for 21 years, is getting a bit stiff to operate (as are my fingers
> themselves).

Are we talking rubbish membrane keyboards, then absolutely not

Even if we are talking Mechanical keyboards, then what cherry mx switches?, blue for typing if you love the clickety-clack, red, black etc but still, I would say no, I have Ducky Shine mechanical keyboards that suffice

Those rubbish membrane keyboards - we used to repair them for DEC by the
hundreds per week
Silver polish and and dish washing liquid brought those babies back to life.

On 7/24/2022 10:22 PM, IanD wrote:
> On Saturday, July 23, 2022 at 11:08:32 AM UTC+10, Galen wrote:
>> Jeffrey H. Coffield <jef...@digitalsynergyinc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> While trying to resuscitate an LK464 keyboard that had drowned in
>>> coffee, I notice the circuit board said "Cherry" on it. I called the
>>> company and got someone technical and they said yes they could restart
>>> production on them but the minimum order was, as I remember, 10,000.
>>> .
>> During my client’s COVID work-from-home period last year, I partially
>> revived a LK45X word processor keyboard (Ps/2 connector) that I’d picked up
>> on EBay as is for about $15 US. When I opened it up, it appeared to have
>> had a cola spilled in it, then been subjected to something heavy sitting on
>> the keyboard for a good while.
>>
>> After I thoroughly cleaned it, it wasn’t much trouble to repair the
>> conductive tracery. And the circuit board was just fine already. But I was
>> stymied by the half dozen or so crushed dome “springs”.
>>
>> Not being able to find another so cheaply for parts, I’ve just been letting
>> it sit in the closet. It may have something to do with my decision a few
>> weeks ago to give away my working though seldom used DS10 I’d hoped to use
>> it with.
>>
>> I really liked the LK4XX line for its ergonomics. Among other keyboards,
>> the older Mac USB keyboards (before the ridiculous low profile ones) and a
>> numeric keypad are pretty good but harder on my fingers. Mine, which I’ve
>> had for 21 years, is getting a bit stiff to operate (as are my fingers
>> themselves).
> Are we talking rubbish membrane keyboards, then absolutely not
>
> Even if we are talking Mechanical keyboards, then what cherry mx switches?, blue for typing if you love the clickety-clack, red, black etc but still, I would say no, I have Ducky Shine mechanical keyboards that suffice

On Fr 22 Jul 2022 at 06:46, helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) wrote:

> I could type with no key labelling at all, but they have to be in the
> right place.

My keyboard does not have any labelling at all; it is a 'Das Keyboard 4
Ultimate'. I love it.

'Andreas

When I left HP years ago, besides keeping my Alpha PWS-500, I also kept my LK450, LK411, and LK461 keyboards. The LK461 is still my PC's keyboard. They were pretty handy when using the DEC editors, but over the last few years I started using vi or vim because they run on everything. Still keeping the DEC keyboards though.

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 5:19:16 AM UTC-7, Simon Clubley wrote:
> While reading the list of what people are likely to ask for next in VMS,
> I realised that some people missed the real DEC keyboards.
> So, should VSI commission the production of a DEC layout keyboard with,
> say, a USB interface ?
So you mean a keyboard with keycaps that have the symbols that old
DEC keyboards have? They might not have the look and feel of the old
ones, but the right symbols.

I think I remember using EDT or EVE with VT100 or VT125 terminals,
and a little piece of paper taped on that tells the function of the keys
on the numeric keypad. So, the keys already didn't have the right keycaps.

Someone asked about older DEC keyboards, though, a few years ago.
There are companies that will make custom keycaps with any symbol
you want. There is a NRE cost, so larger orders are a better deal.

There is also a company that makes keys with a tiny LCD display
on each one. You can make a completely programmable keyboard,
with the symbols you want, when you want them. That might have
been $5/key or more, so out of range for many hobbyists.

On 2022-08-15, gah4 <gah4@u.washington.edu> wrote:
> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 5:19:16 AM UTC-7, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> While reading the list of what people are likely to ask for next in VMS,
>> I realised that some people missed the real DEC keyboards.
>
>> So, should VSI commission the production of a DEC layout keyboard with,
>> say, a USB interface ?
>
> So you mean a keyboard with keycaps that have the symbols that old
> DEC keyboards have? They might not have the look and feel of the old
> ones, but the right symbols.
>

Yes. Or even a modern version of a DEC-style keyboard but with a USB lead
coming out of it. (Must give Phillip his precious "delete word" key. :-))

The full-sized PC keyboard has _long_ since become my "DEC" keyboard,
but I am surprised at the number of people who are still expressing
a desire for the actual DEC keyboards.

BTW, have you considered that the modern PC keyboards could be more
ergonomic that the genuine DEC keyboards ? I certainly find a modern
good quality PC keyboard very comfortable to use.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Den 2022-08-15 kl. 20:32, skrev Simon Clubley:
> On 2022-08-15, gah4 <gah4@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 5:19:16 AM UTC-7, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>> While reading the list of what people are likely to ask for next in VMS,
>>> I realised that some people missed the real DEC keyboards.
>>
>>> So, should VSI commission the production of a DEC layout keyboard with,
>>> say, a USB interface ?
>>
>> So you mean a keyboard with keycaps that have the symbols that old
>> DEC keyboards have? They might not have the look and feel of the old
>> ones, but the right symbols.
>>
>
> Yes. Or even a modern version of a DEC-style keyboard but with a USB lead
> coming out of it. (Must give Phillip his precious "delete word" key. :-))
>
> The full-sized PC keyboard has _long_ since become my "DEC" keyboard,
> but I am surprised at the number of people who are still expressing
> a desire for the actual DEC keyboards.
>
> BTW, have you considered that the modern PC keyboards could be more
> ergonomic that the genuine DEC keyboards ? I certainly find a modern
> good quality PC keyboard very comfortable to use.
>
> Simon.
>

The problem is that those talkning about special client hardware
to run VMS are the same whos ideas add to the picture that VMS
is "different" and forces the VMS systems closer to the door.
I think we must always show that VMS of today does work fine
using todays client tools and environments. Saying that one need
special hardware, kayboards, mouses, whatever, does not do VMS
any good.

I haven't used a DEC-style keyboard since, must be over 30 years.
The last VT510 probably. And have been working professional with
VMS every single workday since then.

All my laptops have been with numeric keypad. Don't use anything else.
Had some issues with our Indian consultants that was not allowed to get
a proper laptop with large keybaord due to corporate standards...