Pixel2 using the 'phone' app that came with it. Google is very good
about labeling calls 'spam calls' but then it lets them go through.
This crap has cost m4 $2.50 in the last month. I pay $10/year for the
prepaid plan and (obviously) make very few calls, so you can see why
I'm pissed.

I just set it to 'Block calls from unidentified callers' but that's kind
of ambiguous. Does it actually connect the call, triggering a charge,
but prevent it from ringing or leaving voicemail? Just exactly what
does 'block' mean here?

I'm willing to trust google's judgment and reject every single one of
these calls before it gets to me and triggers a charge. I'm willing to
reject any call from someone NOT in my contacts list.

Is such a thing even possible?

--
Cheers, Bev
"Dammit I'm Mad" is "Dammit I'm Mad" spelled backwards.

In article <so10k6$ib9$1@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> Pixel2 using the 'phone' app that came with it. Google is very good
> about labeling calls 'spam calls' but then it lets them go through.
> This crap has cost m4 $2.50 in the last month. I pay $10/year for the
> prepaid plan and (obviously) make very few calls, so you can see why
> I'm pissed.

you have previously claimed to have thousands of rollover minutes you
never use, so it hasn't actually cost you anything.

On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 17:55:57 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <so10k6$ib9$1@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev
><bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Pixel2 using the 'phone' app that came with it. Google is very good
>> about labeling calls 'spam calls' but then it lets them go through.
>> This crap has cost m4 $2.50 in the last month. I pay $10/year for the
>> prepaid plan and (obviously) make very few calls, so you can see why
>> I'm pissed.
>
>you have previously claimed to have thousands of rollover minutes you
>never use, so it hasn't actually cost you anything.

Lets see... 10/365 = 0.027.... I suppose if one can't afford it one
would have to go without (:-(
--
Cheers,

Schweik

On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 14:42:13 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> Just exactly what does 'block' mean here?

Dunno. To be purposefully helpful, because I have a good heart,
allow me to run a quick search to see what it finds for you...
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+android+spam+call+block+works&t=h_&ia=web

First hit, FCC...
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-block-unwanted-calls
"Some internet-based services and phone apps require all calls
to be routed through their service, where they are instantly analyzed.
You may have choices about how unwanted calls are handled.
For example, unwanted calls might
(a) be stopped
(b) ring silently
(c) go straight to a separate voicemail
(d) go to a spam folder

Second set of hits, T-Mobile...
Block unwanted calls
https://www.t-mobile.com/business/solutions/call-protection
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tmobile.services.nameid
https://www.t-mobile.com/apps/scam-shield-app
https://www.t-mobile.com/support/plans-features/help-with-scams-spam-and-fraud
https://www.t-mobile.com/support/plans-features/scam-id-and-scam-block
https://www.t-mobile.com/support/plans-features/block-unwanted-calls
https://www.t-mobile.com/customers/scam-shield

Third set of hits...
https://www.androidauthority.com/how-to-block-spam-calls-855621/
https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/3459196
https://www.howtogeek.com/731704/how-to-block-calls-on-android/
https://www.robokiller.com/blog/how-to-block-spam-calls-on-android/

Looks like it may well depend on the app you use how it actually works.

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> Pixel2 using the 'phone' app that came with it. Google is very good
> about labeling calls 'spam calls' but then it lets them go through.
> This crap has cost m4 $2.50 in the last month. I pay $10/year for the
> prepaid plan and (obviously) make very few calls, so you can see why
> I'm pissed.
>
> I just set it to 'Block calls from unidentified callers' but that's kind
> of ambiguous. Does it actually connect the call, triggering a charge,
> but prevent it from ringing or leaving voicemail? Just exactly what
> does 'block' mean here?
>
> I'm willing to trust google's judgment and reject every single one of
> these calls before it gets to me and triggers a charge. I'm willing to
> reject any call from someone NOT in my contacts list.
>
> Is such a thing even possible?

Blocking at the client end (phone) can't do anything until the call has
been accepted, so your phone rings.

Who is your cellular carrier? That's where you need to block unwanted
calls. They get blocked at the service, not connected to your phone to
hope some app's blacklist then blocks the call.

I use Google Voice. It calls all my phones, except for spam calls. The
blocking is on the service end, not at my phone. Your carrier might
have a web site where you can configure your account, including spam
blocking and blacklisting features. With your grandfathered account,
maybe you don't get a web UI to your account with them.

You could try using NoMoRobo (https://nomorobo.com/). It only works if
your cellular account supports simulataneous ringing (and you enable
it): while your phone rings, the carrier also rings other phones. That
is, the carrier rings both your phone and NoMoRobo. If the call is a
known robodialer, the call gets blocked, but only between the 1st and
2nd ring which is when Caller ID data is available. This setup works
when your carrier connects to your phone (and to NoMoRobo). Does your
carrier charge just for connecting to your phone, or only when incoming
calls are completed (your end picks up)?

Their simultaneous ring service for landlines (POTS, VOIP) is free, but
their mobile service costs $2/mo. I suspect they work similar to
Hiya/MrNumber and Truecaller apps: uses a blacklist (hopefully
downloaded to cache on your phone for fast lookup) between the 1st and
2nd rings. Note: Truecaller harvests your contacts. While you can turn
this off, the default is on, so your contacts have already been
harvested when you first use their app, and you have to issue a request
to hope they remove your contact data from their database, like asking a
burglar to shred the blank checks they stole.

Are you using Google's Phone app:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.dialer

I suspect that's the app since you're using a Google phone (instead of a
different brand that uses a modified Android OS along with the phone
maker's own bundle of apps). Like Hiya/MrNumber and Truecaller, that
one also has a spam blacklist:

https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/3459196?hl=en

I suspect their app uses the same blacklist as their Google Voice
service. Did you enable the spam blocking feature, or just seeing the
warning on the incoming call? They should be blocking between the 1st
and 2nd rings once the Caller ID data is available. That the spam-
flagged calls are "getting through" hints to me that you are just seeing
the alerts, but don't have spam blocking feature enabled. Else, maybe
your carrier charges for the connect (during the ringing) rather than
only for completed calls (when you answer the call, or let it go to
voicemail).

On 11/28/2021 03:02 PM, goodsoldierschweik@invalid.junk wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 17:55:57 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>In article <so10k6$ib9$1@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev
>><bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Pixel2 using the 'phone' app that came with it. Google is very good
>>> about labeling calls 'spam calls' but then it lets them go through.
>>> This crap has cost m4 $2.50 in the last month. I pay $10/year for the
>>> prepaid plan and (obviously) make very few calls, so you can see why
>>> I'm pissed.
>>
>>you have previously claimed to have thousands of rollover minutes you
>>never use, so it hasn't actually cost you anything.

And I'm actually MAKING money by using my Best Buy card to buy stuff at
Best Buy. I get a discount when I decide to buy something and I get
FREE stuff when I issue my gift certificate and buy something else at
Best Buy THAT I GET ANOTHER REBATE ON!

> Lets see... 10/365 = 0.027.... I suppose if one can't afford it one
> would have to go without (:-(

I actually DO use it $10 worth or so each year. I call home when I'm
done skiing to let Hubby know that I survived another day and to find
out if there's anything I need to pick up at Walmart. Some others, of
course.

Why should I pay to receive a call from someone who I'd actually be
happy to see crushed under a steamroller along with his/her entire
industry? The cost is kind of irrelevant. I can afford a decent phone
plan with data, but why should I pay $30 or more per month for something
that I'd use only rarely? I'm trying to decide whether 6 months'
on-line access to my local fishwrap is worth a buck. It's really a
crappy paper (not true 20 years ago) but there's really no other source
of local news since the Town Crier retired.

People who think like me get to retire early.

I'm down to 213 minutes now...

--
Cheers, Bev
My house isn't a pigsty, it's an Immunity Enhancement Center.

On 29/11/2021 01.54, VanguardLH wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Pixel2 using the 'phone' app that came with it. Google is very good
>> about labeling calls 'spam calls' but then it lets them go through.
>> This crap has cost m4 $2.50 in the last month. I pay $10/year for the
>> prepaid plan and (obviously) make very few calls, so you can see why
>> I'm pissed.
>>
>> I just set it to 'Block calls from unidentified callers' but that's kind
>> of ambiguous. Does it actually connect the call, triggering a charge,
>> but prevent it from ringing or leaving voicemail? Just exactly what
>> does 'block' mean here?
>>
>> I'm willing to trust google's judgment and reject every single one of
>> these calls before it gets to me and triggers a charge. I'm willing to
>> reject any call from someone NOT in my contacts list.
>>
>> Is such a thing even possible?
>
> Blocking at the client end (phone) can't do anything until the call has
> been accepted, so your phone rings.

Mine doesn't.

This feature you have in the USA where you can be charged for receiving
a call is amazing to me, I don't know how that works. Here, the
receiving side never pays a cent no matter what you do - unless you are
roaming abroad and answer the call.

So I don't know at what point in the call you get charged. It should be
only on call completion, ie, on answer. Now, is voice mail "answering"?

--
Cheers, Carlos.

In article <hsnd7i-vti.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> This feature you have in the USA where you can be charged for receiving
> a call is amazing to me, I don't know how that works. Here, the
> receiving side never pays a cent no matter what you do - unless you are
> roaming abroad and answer the call.

it's very simple. those who use airtime pay for it.

> So I don't know at what point in the call you get charged. It should be
> only on call completion, ie, on answer.

aka supervision.

> Now, is voice mail "answering"?

yes, but since airtime is not used to leave voicemail, there will not
be any airtime charges for the called party. the exception is if
voicemail is handled *on* the phone itself, which is rare but does
exist.

listening to voicemail messages on the cellphone will use airtime (it's
just another call). no airtime is used if voicemail is accessed via a
landline.

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> On 29/11/2021 01.54, VanguardLH wrote:
>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Pixel2 using the 'phone' app that came with it. Google is very good
>>> about labeling calls 'spam calls' but then it lets them go through.
>>> This crap has cost m4 $2.50 in the last month. I pay $10/year for the
>>> prepaid plan and (obviously) make very few calls, so you can see why
>>> I'm pissed.
>>>
>>> I just set it to 'Block calls from unidentified callers' but that's kind
>>> of ambiguous. Does it actually connect the call, triggering a charge,
>>> but prevent it from ringing or leaving voicemail? Just exactly what
>>> does 'block' mean here?
>>>
>>> I'm willing to trust google's judgment and reject every single one of
>>> these calls before it gets to me and triggers a charge. I'm willing to
>>> reject any call from someone NOT in my contacts list.
>>>
>>> Is such a thing even possible?
>>
>> Blocking at the client end (phone) can't do anything until the call
>> has been accepted, so your phone rings.
>
> Mine doesn't.

How would a client-side app know anything about a call until the call
gets connected to the phone? By the way, call accepted is not the same
as call completed (answered).

How does Caller ID work in Spain? It doesn't have the CID data sent
between the 1st and 2nd ring? Well, that still means the call got
accepted by the phone, so the phone rings.

> So I don't know at what point in the call you get charged. It should
> be only on call completion, ie, on answer.

I would think so, too. I'm on a quota (not unlimited), and don't
remember getting my quota getting dinged for a call connection that was
not completed. However, I don't know how all carriers handle call
accept versus call complete. Yet I do know that I get dinged on a
completed incoming call while the caller also gets dinged for their
outbound call; i.e., both ends get dinged, so the sending carrier
charges the caller and the receiving carrier charges the callee, even if
caller and callee are using the same carrier. I suppose the calling
service still has to use resources, and so does the called service, so
both ends are expending resources to connect a call. The station has to
pay to put gas into their tank, and you have to pay to take some out.

That's why I figure service-side blacklisting preserves your cellular
quota: the receiving service using a blacklist doesn't connect a spam
call to your phone. They short-circuit the process by not making the
connection to your phone. If your phone rings, the receiving service
connected to your phone.

You could test if your cell phone's service provider is charging you for
unanswered calls (your phone rings, and no voicemail pickup). In many
phone apps, you can decline the call (but do so without employing any
message prompt to the user since that means picking up the call to send
the message to the caller). Call to find your phone. Call from a
different phone, or using a different service provider, than the one
whose account you are checking if call connects get charged without a
call complete. You'll need to decline the incoming call (and without
redirecting to voicemail) or cancel it, and before voicemail picks up
(usually after the 6th ring). If you disable voicemail, the incoming
call gets disconnected without completion, so that would be another way
to test. You want the receiving phone to ring (accept call) but not
pick up the call (completion failed).

Carriers will try to penny pinch where they can. Even if the call is
accepted but not completed, AT&T would charge for the caller if the
receiving service connected to the callee's phone for more than 30
seconds.

https://www.wired.com/2011/03/overlooked-att-billing-term/

Yep, old, but I don't know if that policy has since changed.

Some schemes charge the callee for an incomplete call instead of
charging the caller. Yeah, for fairness you'd think neither end would
get charged for an incomplete call, but again each end is consuming
resources trying to complete the call. They'll employ questionable
schemes until caught (i.e., it's not illegal unless they get caught).
Verizon has been caught several times for cramming their bills.

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> This feature you have in the USA where you can be charged for
> receiving a call is amazing to me, I don't know how that works.

Those of us with unlimited talk and text don't worry about it. But of
course we pay more for the privilege. I pay a whopping US $20/mo per
line (plus taxes and fees) for nationwide service (data is extra).

On 11/28/2021 04:54 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Pixel2 using the 'phone' app that came with it. Google is very good
>> about labeling calls 'spam calls' but then it lets them go through.
>> This crap has cost m4 $2.50 in the last month. I pay $10/year for the
>> prepaid plan and (obviously) make very few calls, so you can see why
>> I'm pissed.
>>
>> I just set it to 'Block calls from unidentified callers' but that's kind
>> of ambiguous. Does it actually connect the call, triggering a charge,
>> but prevent it from ringing or leaving voicemail? Just exactly what
>> does 'block' mean here?

I'll have to just wait and see if that does any good. Does identifying
as a Criminal Spammer count as 'identified'?

>> I'm willing to trust google's judgment and reject every single one of
>> these calls before it gets to me and triggers a charge. I'm willing to
>> reject any call from someone NOT in my contacts list.
>>
>> Is such a thing even possible?
>
> Blocking at the client end (phone) can't do anything until the call has
> been accepted, so your phone rings.

Most of this crap goes to voicemail automatically -- no ring at all. If
it rings I can reject it and THEN it goes to voicemail :-(

> Who is your cellular carrier? That's where you need to block unwanted
> calls. They get blocked at the service, not connected to your phone to
> hope some app's blacklist then blocks the call.

T-Mobile. They have a spam-blocking app, but it doesn'twork with
prepaid accounts. The instructions say to change the 'line' setting on
the phone in the T-Mobile app, but I can't get to any 'settings' there
-- the stupid thing can't get past a point where I have to choose which
account I'm dealing with. It just goes in a circle. Their website is
flakey every time I've tried to do anything with it.

There's a T-Mobile shop within walking distance, but when I've gone
there before they seem woefully ignorant of anything that would involve
a next-level customer service rep.

> I use Google Voice. It calls all my phones, except for spam calls. The
> blocking is on the service end, not at my phone. Your carrier might
> have a web site where you can configure your account, including spam
> blocking and blacklisting features. With your grandfathered account,
> maybe you don't get a web UI to your account with them.

I NEVER get spam calls on the google voice number. When I've tried
giving that number when somebody wants to send a text with an
authentication number they frequently say the number is invalid. It
works when I've got a strong wifi signal, but not with weak ones, but
the signal at home (I'm within 3 feet of the modem, router, Pixel2 and
computer).

> You could try using NoMoRobo (https://nomorobo.com/). It only works if
> your cellular account supports simulataneous ringing (and you enable
> it): while your phone rings, the carrier also rings other phones. That
> is, the carrier rings both your phone and NoMoRobo. If the call is a
> known robodialer, the call gets blocked, but only between the 1st and
> 2nd ring which is when Caller ID data is available. This setup works
> when your carrier connects to your phone (and to NoMoRobo). Does your
> carrier charge just for connecting to your phone, or only when incoming
> calls are completed (your end picks up)?

Given that I can receive calls to voicemail without the phone ringing...
well, what? That's why I'm wondering about the definition of "block".

We have a nifty Sentry 2 device for the landline that answers the call
with a GO TO HELL BLASTED TELEMARKETER (I wish!) message and then passes
it through if the shithead (or friend) presses 0. From then on that
person is whitelisted unless we push the blacklist button. So calls are
blocked from our consciousness, but we can see them on the Ooma list
even if the spammer hangs up immediately. No sure how the Sentry
recognizes and automatically kills robocalls, but it does. If we need
to have a robocall callback we have to switch it off.

Our friends without it get a telemarketer call every few minutes on
their landline. Real nuisance to have to listen to every call that
comes in. Sometimes it's good to trust technology.

> Their simultaneous ring service for landlines (POTS, VOIP) is free, but
> their mobile service costs $2/mo. I suspect they work similar to
> Hiya/MrNumber and Truecaller apps: uses a blacklist (hopefully
> downloaded to cache on your phone for fast lookup) between the 1st and
> 2nd rings. Note: Truecaller harvests your contacts. While you can turn
> this off, the default is on, so your contacts have already been
> harvested when you first use their app, and you have to issue a request
> to hope they remove your contact data from their database, like asking a
> burglar to shred the blank checks they stole.

:-) Before we got the Sentry2 we asked the telemarketers to put us on
ther Do Not Call List. Not a single one knew what that was. Yeah, right.

> Are you using Google's Phone app:
>
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.dialer

Yup. Came with the phone.

> I suspect that's the app since you're using a Google phone (instead of a
> different brand that uses a modified Android OS along with the phone
> maker's own bundle of apps). Like Hiya/MrNumber and Truecaller, that
> one also has a spam blacklist:
>
> https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/3459196?hl=en

That's for an older version (either Android or 'phone') and seems more
capable than the current one, which just offers 'Block calls from
unidentified callers' which I just set.

Google really sucks at updating their 'help' functions.

> I suspect their app uses the same blacklist as their Google Voice
> service. Did you enable the spam blocking feature, or just seeing the
> warning on the incoming call? They should be blocking between the 1st
> and 2nd rings once the Caller ID data is available. That the spam-
> flagged calls are "getting through" hints to me that you are just seeing
> the alerts, but don't have spam blocking feature enabled. Else, maybe
> your carrier charges for the connect (during the ringing) rather than
> only for completed calls (when you answer the call, or let it go to
> voicemail).

We'll see. If you want economy you gotta pay for it!

--
Cheers, Bev
"People are too stupid to realize they are."
--JoHn DoH KeLm

On 11/28/2021 05:44 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 29/11/2021 01.54, VanguardLH wrote:
>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Pixel2 using the 'phone' app that came with it. Google is very good
>>> about labeling calls 'spam calls' but then it lets them go through.
>>> This crap has cost m4 $2.50 in the last month. I pay $10/year for the
>>> prepaid plan and (obviously) make very few calls, so you can see why
>>> I'm pissed.
>>>
>>> I just set it to 'Block calls from unidentified callers' but that's kind
>>> of ambiguous. Does it actually connect the call, triggering a charge,
>>> but prevent it from ringing or leaving voicemail? Just exactly what
>>> does 'block' mean here?
>>>
>>> I'm willing to trust google's judgment and reject every single one of
>>> these calls before it gets to me and triggers a charge. I'm willing to
>>> reject any call from someone NOT in my contacts list.
>>>
>>> Is such a thing even possible?
>>
>> Blocking at the client end (phone) can't do anything until the call has
>> been accepted, so your phone rings.
>
> Mine doesn't.
>
> This feature you have in the USA where you can be charged for receiving
> a call is amazing to me, I don't know how that works. Here, the
> receiving side never pays a cent no matter what you do - unless you are
> roaming abroad and answer the call.

I put it down to good lobbying by the cellphone industry. Same thing
with the insurance industry. We have to buy liability insurance for
each car we own, regardless of the fact that we can only drive one at a
time. It would seem that the liability insurance should attach to the
person, not the vehicle, but that's not the way it works.

> So I don't know at what point in the call you get charged. It should be
> only on call completion, ie, on answer. Now, is voice mail "answering"?

I would guess it is, and if I reject a call it goes to voicemail if
that's what the caller chooses.

AND -- it costs me a call (20 cents/minute) to check my voicemail!

The workaround is to put the phone on airplane mode and call in with the
landline. Invariably it's the Chinese chick telling me in Mandarin that
there's a problem with my immigration documents, the cheerful midwestern
woman reminding me about the expiration of my car warranty or 5 seconds
of silence and background noise while the callers figure out that they
called a wrong number. I get charged 20 cents a minute for each of
those even if I never check them. No idea how long the messages
actually are, I delete them as soon as I recognize them for what they are.

--
Cheers, Bev
"People are too stupid to realize they are."
--JoHn DoH KeLm

On 11/28/2021 07:27 PM, AJL wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> This feature you have in the USA where you can be charged for
>> receiving a call is amazing to me, I don't know how that works.
>
> Those of us with unlimited talk and text don't worry about it. But of
> course we pay more for the privilege. I pay a whopping US $20/mo per
> line (plus taxes and fees) for nationwide service (data is extra).

Even that is too much for NO usage.

We have a VOIP landline device that costs ~$6/month (they claim it's for
taxes, and the number is certainly right) instead of the $35/month for
local-only service that AT&T charged before we told them where they
could shove it. They wanted another $3/month MINIMUM for LD service --
which we never used because we didn't know anyone we needed LD to call!

Ooma VOIP device was $80 and Sentry2 was $50. Best money we ever spent.

--
Cheers, Bev
Lawyering: the only profession that if you
didn't have it you wouldn't need it.

On 11/28/2021 10:56 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 11/28/2021 07:27 PM, AJL wrote:
>> Carlos E.R. wrote:

>>> This feature you have in the USA where you can be charged for
>>> receiving a call is amazing to me, I don't know how that works.

>> Those of us with unlimited talk and text don't worry about it. But
>> of course we pay more for the privilege. I pay a whopping US $20/mo
>> per line (plus taxes and fees) for nationwide service (data is
>> extra).

> Even that is too much for NO usage.

Of course YMMV. With a large extended family scattered around the
country we get plenty of usage (no landline) so unlimited nationwide
calling works great for us.

> We have a VOIP landline device that costs ~$6/month (they claim it's
> for taxes, and the number is certainly right) instead of the
> $35/month for local-only service that AT&T charged before we told
> them where they could shove it. They wanted another $3/month
> MINIMUM for LD service -- which we never used because we didn't know
> anyone we needed LD to call!
>
> Ooma VOIP device was $80 and Sentry2 was $50. Best money we ever
> spent.

I think you'll agree that it's a good thing that there are so many
different options available for folks with different needs...

On 11/28/2021 10:23 PM, AJL wrote:
> On 11/28/2021 10:56 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 11/28/2021 07:27 PM, AJL wrote:
>>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>>>> This feature you have in the USA where you can be charged for
>>>> receiving a call is amazing to me, I don't know how that works.
>
>>> Those of us with unlimited talk and text don't worry about it. But
>>> of course we pay more for the privilege. I pay a whopping US $20/mo
>>> per line (plus taxes and fees) for nationwide service (data is
>>> extra).
>
>> Even that is too much for NO usage.
>
> Of course YMMV. With a large extended family scattered around the
> country we get plenty of usage (no landline) so unlimited nationwide
> calling works great for us.

I'd like that and envy people who have it. My family are all within 35
miles and we all do email etc. Same for friends, but some of them are
~100 miles away. Net friends are all over the world.

>> We have a VOIP landline device that costs ~$6/month (they claim it's
>> for taxes, and the number is certainly right) instead of the
>> $35/month for local-only service that AT&T charged before we told
>> them where they could shove it. They wanted another $3/month
>> MINIMUM for LD service -- which we never used because we didn't know
>> anyone we needed LD to call!
>>
>> Ooma VOIP device was $80 and Sentry2 was $50. Best money we ever
>> spent.
>
> I think you'll agree that it's a good thing that there are so many
> different options available for folks with different needs...

Of course, but I want what *I* want!

--
Cheers, Bev
Lawyering: the only profession that if you
didn't have it you wouldn't need it.

Am 29.11.21 um 02:32 schrieb The Real Bev:
> Why should I pay to receive a call from someone

Quite different on the Continent: Someone calling never can impose
charges on the called person by any means. Never even not with apps.
Which is fair and logic.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 11/28/2021 11:11 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 29.11.21 um 02:32 schrieb The Real Bev:
>> Why should I pay to receive a call from someone
>
> Quite different on the Continent: Someone calling never can impose
> charges on the called person by any means. Never even not with apps.
> Which is fair and logic.

Indeed. I put it down to "campaign contributions' to whoever is
supposed to regulate such things.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Qui custodiet ipsos custodes?" --Juvenal

Am 29.11.21 um 02:44 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
> On 29/11/2021 01.54, VanguardLH wrote:
>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Pixel2 using the 'phone' app that came with it. Google is very good
>>> about labeling calls 'spam calls' but then it lets them go through.
>>> This crap has cost m4 $2.50 in the last month. I pay $10/year for the
>>> prepaid plan and (obviously) make very few calls, so you can see why
>>> I'm pissed.
>>>
>>> I just set it to 'Block calls from unidentified callers' but that's kind
>>> of ambiguous. Does it actually connect the call, triggering a charge,
>>> but prevent it from ringing or leaving voicemail? Just exactly what
>>> does 'block' mean here?
>>>
>>> I'm willing to trust google's judgment and reject every single one of
>>> these calls before it gets to me and triggers a charge. I'm willing to
>>> reject any call from someone NOT in my contacts list.
>>>
>>> Is such a thing even possible?
>>
>> Blocking at the client end (phone) can't do anything until the call has
>> been accepted, so your phone rings.
>
> Mine doesn't.

Mine neither. Not on mobiles and not on the fixed net.
From a European perspective the (billing) rules in the US are archaic.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 29.11.21 um 03:07 schrieb nospam:
> In article <hsnd7i-vti.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> This feature you have in the USA where you can be charged for receiving
>> a call is amazing to me, I don't know how that works. Here, the
>> receiving side never pays a cent no matter what you do - unless you are
>> roaming abroad and answer the call.
>
> it's very simple. those who use airtime pay for it.

Totally stupid. Even after accepting the call.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 29.11.21 um 03:20 schrieb VanguardLH:
> How would a client-side app know anything about a call until the call
> gets connected to the phone? By the way, call accepted is not the same
> as call completed (answered).

The caller sends his ID along and any app or the phone can suppress
easily the phone ringing.

Works perfectly here.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 29.11.21 um 06:49 schrieb The Real Bev:
> We have to buy liability insurance for
> each car we own, regardless of the fact that we can only drive one at a
> time.

This is more than fair. The risk of an accident is extremely different
whether you drive a 500 hp sports car or a 150 hp van. Look at the
statistics. As reasonable driver I do not want to subsidise Porsche- and
Ferrari drivers ...

And the fact that you can drove only one car at the time you can easily
drive each car at average miles of each car per year.
Correct would be to pay for the mileage. But that also is not a linear
function.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> Am 29.11.21 um 03:20 schrieb VanguardLH:
>> How would a client-side app know anything about a call until the call
>> gets connected to the phone? By the way, call accepted is not the same
>> as call completed (answered).
>
> The caller sends his ID along and any app or the phone can suppress
> easily the phone ringing.
>
> Works perfectly here.

Here the CID data is sent between ring 1 and ring 2. That means the
provider has already connected to the phone, and the phone rings at
least once. The 2nd and further rings may not happen if the CID is
blacklisted. Only an app, designated as the dialer, could suppress the
1st ring, so you don't hear it. The 2nd ring is the first one you hear,
but also after the provider and phone have connected. That an app
suppresses you hearing the 1st ring doesn't mean there wasn't one. I
can mute the sound and suppress all rings of a call.

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
>> Am 29.11.21 um 03:20 schrieb VanguardLH:
>>> How would a client-side app know anything about a call until the call
>>> gets connected to the phone? By the way, call accepted is not the same
>>> as call completed (answered).
>>
>> The caller sends his ID along and any app or the phone can suppress
>> easily the phone ringing.
>>
>> Works perfectly here.
>
> Here the CID data is sent between ring 1 and ring 2. That means the
> provider has already connected to the phone, and the phone rings at
> least once. The 2nd and further rings may not happen if the CID is
> blacklisted. Only an app, designated as the dialer, could suppress the
> 1st ring, so you don't hear it. The 2nd ring is the first one you hear,
> but also after the provider and phone have connected. That an app
> suppresses you hearing the 1st ring doesn't mean there wasn't one. I
> can mute the sound and suppress all rings of a call.

Where is "here"? I only know how CID data is transferred in the USA.
Without connecting to the phone, how is the phone going to get the CID?

The Real Bev wrote:

> I'm willing to trust google's judgment and reject every single one of these
> calls before it gets to me and triggers a charge.  I'm willing to reject any
> call from someone NOT in my contacts list.

I think pixel phones in the USA have had google's robo call-screening option for
a couple of years now, we've not been so lucky in the UK.

Last friday I had a call (from a known number) and as well as green=answer,
red=busy buttons, I got a blue=screen button for the call, since it was a
customer I answered it, but I'll see if that's a standard feature we get here now.

Charges are not an issue for us as caller pays ...

VanguardLH wrote:

> Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> How would a client-side app know anything about a call until the call
>>> gets connected to the phone?
>>
>> The caller sends his ID along and any app or the phone can suppress
>> easily the phone ringing.
>
> Here the CID data is sent between ring 1 and ring 2.

For landlines in the UK, CLI is sent before the first ring (there's a polarity
reversal on the line to signal it's going to arrive).