On 9/22/22 3:29 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> On 2022-09-21 14:26, Simon Clubley wrote:

>> PF1 to PF4 mapping. Are they on F1 to F4 or are they on the top row of
>> the numeric keypad ?
>
> F1 to F4, since the top row of the numeric keypad have keys that are
> also on the DEC numeric keypad which I also want. Can't have it both
> ways. The DEC numeric keypad have more keys than any PC or Apple
> keyboard have.

I just compared an LK-461 to a full-sized Apple keyboard. The Apple has
a separate ESC key (not doubled up with `~ like the LK) and the LK-461
has F20, which the Apple does not. The LK-461 also has a separate key
for "< >" as well as being the shift of "," and ".". Other than that the
number of keys is identical. The number and layout of the keypad and
navigation keys are identical, though the Apple has a bit more space
between the arrow keys and the other navigation keys. The DEC keypad
definitely does not have more keys than the Apple keypad.

Making all those keys send the codes that VMS will recognize is between
you and your terminal emulator.

On 9/22/22 9:57 AM, John Reagan wrote:

> When I use my MacBook, I use iTerm2 and did have to work on the settings for
> the top row of the keypad to get them to be PF1-PF4 but after that, they work great.
> I can get them out and share if there is interest.

I posted what I did for iTerm2 here:

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/c/i-CVytjOJ2A/m/SU5qVdgEA_sJ

Possibly there have been changes necessary for various OS and iTerm2
upgrades, but hopefully the general idea still works.

Den 2022-09-22 kl. 16:53, skrev Johnny Billquist:
> On 2022-09-22 14:29, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2022-09-22, Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-21 14:26, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>>>
>>>> PF1 to PF4 mapping. Are they on F1 to F4 or are they on the top row of
>>>> the numeric keypad ?
>>>
>>> F1 to F4, since the top row of the numeric keypad have keys that are
>>> also on the DEC numeric keypad which I also want. Can't have it both
>>> ways. The DEC numeric keypad have more keys than any PC or Apple
>>> keyboard have.
>>>
>>
>> For me, having PF1 to PF4 on F1 to F4 is an absolute no-no. I use the EDT
>> keypad layout heavily every single day and I can't have my fingers flying
>> across the keyboard every time I need to press one of those keys.
>
> Ah. Well, that would be a problem for you then.
>
>> For me, they need to be on the top of the keypad and I do remember that
>> being a problem in the early days of using xterm. I don't know if things
>> are better now.
>
> Most of the time not, since the choice made in xterm was to use F1-F4 for
> PF1-PF4. Which is pretty harmless, as a real DEC terminal normally cannot
> use F1-F5 anyway, as they are used for local operations.
>
> But yes, these keys are usually physically quite some distance away from
> the numeric keyboard.
>
>> BTW, the only missing key for me on a PC keypad is delete word, which is
>> something I never used anyway.
>
> And I'm fine with reaching over to F1-F4 when I need those. It's all
> different compromises. I can generate all keys I could on a DEC keyboard,
> which for me is more important than the location of PF1-PF4.
>
>   Johnny

I would not dream of having the "gold" key at the far left of the whole
kayboard. What a mess to hit something like "find" in EDT...

On 9/22/2022 3:29 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:

>
> F1 to F4, since the top row of the numeric keypad have keys that are also on the DEC numeric keypad which I also want. Can't have it both ways. The DEC numeric keypad have more keys than any PC or Apple keyboard have.
>

>
>   Johnny

Not quite true. As I have posted here many times, the Matias Tactile Pro and Quiet Pro *for Mac* have exactly the same number of numeric keypad keys as a proper DEC keyboard. It's just the Mac version, the PC version is short one just like most other PC keyboards. The other keys on the keyboard are in different places and it only goes up to F18 for function keys but with a terminal program that lets you remap anything (like ZOC) then you can make a usable VMS keyboard from them.

http://matias.ca/tactilepro4/
http://matias.ca/tactilepro4/viewer/?p=2

--
John H. Reinhardt