This is probably kind of a stretch, has VAX Common Lisp survived in some form over the years? I'm aware that Lucid picked it up later on, but it's not clear to me what happened to the VAX Common Lisp product, when Lucid began to divest their assets in the 90s.

On 10/23/2022 6:54 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> This is probably kind of a stretch, has VAX Common Lisp survived in some form over the years? I'm aware that Lucid picked it up later on, but it's not clear to me what happened to the VAX Common Lisp product, when Lucid began to divest their assets in the 90s.
>

Don't know what you are asking.

If you're looking for the VAX product:

Directory DKA100:[DFE.LISP031.KIT]

LISP031.A;1 378/378 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
LISP031.B;1 19692/19692 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
LISP031.C;1 14130/14130 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
LISP031.D;1 22590/22590 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
LISP031.E;1 4734/4734 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
LISP031.F;1 4320/4320 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
LISP031.G;1 2754/2754 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
LISP031.H;1 25020/25020 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
LISP031.I;1 4320/4320 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
LISP031.J;1 1944/1944 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
LISP031.K;1 15966/15966 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)

Total of 11 files, 115848/115848 blocks.

If you want it, just ask ...

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 6:48:49 PM UTC-5, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 10/23/2022 6:54 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> > This is probably kind of a stretch, has VAX Common Lisp survived in some form over the years? I'm aware that Lucid picked it up later on, but it's not clear to me what happened to the VAX Common Lisp product, when Lucid began to divest their assets in the 90s.
> >
> Don't know what you are asking.
>
> If you're looking for the VAX product:
>
> Directory DKA100:[DFE.LISP031.KIT]
>
> LISP031.A;1 378/378 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
> LISP031.B;1 19692/19692 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
> LISP031.C;1 14130/14130 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
> LISP031.D;1 22590/22590 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
> LISP031.E;1 4734/4734 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
> LISP031.F;1 4320/4320 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
> LISP031.G;1 2754/2754 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
> LISP031.H;1 25020/25020 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
> LISP031.I;1 4320/4320 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
> LISP031.J;1 1944/1944 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
> LISP031.K;1 15966/15966 [DFE] (RE,RE,RE,RE)
>
> Total of 11 files, 115848/115848 blocks.
>
> If you want it, just ask ...
>
> --
> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
> 170 Grimplin Road
> Vanderbilt, PA 15486

David, thanks for your reply. I was more curious if the product was ever ported to the Alpha/Itanium/x86 architectures. I'm returning to VMS so I don't have any existing systems to start with. I suppose I could try to run VAX VMS under SimH. Is there any legitimate way to get a VMS software load for the VAX architecture under the VSI Community License Agreement? From the web site, it seems like they are focused on the newer architectures.

Cheers,

Bruce Carleton

On 10/23/2022 8:30 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 6:48:49 PM UTC-5, Dave Froble wrote:
>> On 10/23/2022 6:54 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
>>> This is probably kind of a stretch, has VAX Common Lisp survived
>>> in some form over the years? I'm aware that Lucid picked it up
>>> later on, but it's not clear to me what happened to the VAX
>>> Common Lisp product, when Lucid began to divest their assets in
>>> the 90s. >> Don't know what you are asking.
>>
>> If you're looking for the VAX product:
>>
>> Directory DKA100:[DFE.LISP031.KIT]
....
>> If you want it, just ask ...

> David, thanks for your reply. I was more curious if the product was
> ever ported to the Alpha/Itanium/x86 architectures. I'm returning to
> VMS so I don't have any existing systems to start with. I suppose I
> could try to run VAX VMS under SimH. Is there any legitimate way to
> get a VMS software load for the VAX architecture under the VSI
> Community License Agreement? From the web site, it seems like they
> are focused on the newer architectures.
No hobbyist/community license for VMS VAX anymore.

There are other Lisp implementations available.

I know that ABCL works on VMS Alpha and Itanium. But I
am not enough skilled in Lisp to say whether it is any good.

Arne

On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 7:50:28 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 10/23/2022 8:30 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 6:48:49 PM UTC-5, Dave Froble wrote:
> >> On 10/23/2022 6:54 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> >>> This is probably kind of a stretch, has VAX Common Lisp survived
> >>> in some form over the years? I'm aware that Lucid picked it up
> >>> later on, but it's not clear to me what happened to the VAX
> >>> Common Lisp product, when Lucid began to divest their assets in
> >>> the 90s. >> Don't know what you are asking.
> >>
> >> If you're looking for the VAX product:
> >>
> >> Directory DKA100:[DFE.LISP031.KIT]
> ...
> >> If you want it, just ask ...
> > David, thanks for your reply. I was more curious if the product was
> > ever ported to the Alpha/Itanium/x86 architectures. I'm returning to
> > VMS so I don't have any existing systems to start with. I suppose I
> > could try to run VAX VMS under SimH. Is there any legitimate way to
> > get a VMS software load for the VAX architecture under the VSI
> > Community License Agreement? From the web site, it seems like they
> > are focused on the newer architectures.
> No hobbyist/community license for VMS VAX anymore.
>
> There are other Lisp implementations available.
>
> I know that ABCL works on VMS Alpha and Itanium. But I
> am not enough skilled in Lisp to say whether it is any good.
>
> Arne

ABCL is a place to start, but the Java interoperability in ABCL isn't a key requirement. I'm mostly using SBCL on Windows/Linux. VAX Common Lisp had a nice feature list. It would be nice to see it come back to life somehow.

On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 8:08:27 PM UTC-5, Robert Carleton wrote:
> On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 7:50:28 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> > On 10/23/2022 8:30 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> > > On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 6:48:49 PM UTC-5, Dave Froble wrote:
> > >> On 10/23/2022 6:54 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> > >>> This is probably kind of a stretch, has VAX Common Lisp survived
> > >>> in some form over the years? I'm aware that Lucid picked it up
> > >>> later on, but it's not clear to me what happened to the VAX
> > >>> Common Lisp product, when Lucid began to divest their assets in
> > >>> the 90s. >> Don't know what you are asking.
> > >>
> > >> If you're looking for the VAX product:
> > >>
> > >> Directory DKA100:[DFE.LISP031.KIT]
> > ...
> > >> If you want it, just ask ...
> > > David, thanks for your reply. I was more curious if the product was
> > > ever ported to the Alpha/Itanium/x86 architectures. I'm returning to
> > > VMS so I don't have any existing systems to start with. I suppose I
> > > could try to run VAX VMS under SimH. Is there any legitimate way to
> > > get a VMS software load for the VAX architecture under the VSI
> > > Community License Agreement? From the web site, it seems like they
> > > are focused on the newer architectures.
> > No hobbyist/community license for VMS VAX anymore.
> >
> > There are other Lisp implementations available.
> >
> > I know that ABCL works on VMS Alpha and Itanium. But I
> > am not enough skilled in Lisp to say whether it is any good.
> >
> > Arne
> ABCL is a place to start, but the Java interoperability in ABCL isn't a key requirement. I'm mostly using SBCL on Windows/Linux. VAX Common Lisp had a nice feature list. It would be nice to see it come back to life somehow.

I did notice that the VAX LISP/VMS Installation Guide (Order Number: AA-Y922E-TE) did include some notes about VAX Cluster installs in chapter 2. I suppose the procedure might just keeps the software licensing straight.

Does anyone here know if there was any special support in VAX Common Lisp for VAX clusters? It wasn't clear from the old manuals I could find. The VAX LISP/VMS System Access Guide (Order Number: AA-GH75B-TE) doesn't make any mention of it. It would be particularly interesting if you could move a running Lisp process between cluster nodes without shutting it down. If that kind of thing is also possible with the open source Lisp implementations, that would be good to know.

On 10/24/2022 3:54 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> Does anyone here know if there was any special support in VAX Common
> Lisp for VAX clusters? It wasn't clear from the old manuals I could
> find. The VAX LISP/VMS System Access Guide (Order Number:
> AA-GH75B-TE) doesn't make any mention of it. It would be particularly
> interesting if you could move a running Lisp process between cluster
> nodes without shutting it down. If that kind of thing is also
> possible with the open source Lisp implementations, that would be
> good to know.

VMS cannot move processes between nodes. So unless
Lisp did a lot itself, then it can't either.

Traditional VMS cluster approach would be processes
running on each node sharing files and coordinating
via DLM.

No idea how that Lisp offers in that regard.

Arne

On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 3:37:13 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 10/24/2022 3:54 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> > Does anyone here know if there was any special support in VAX Common
> > Lisp for VAX clusters? It wasn't clear from the old manuals I could
> > find. The VAX LISP/VMS System Access Guide (Order Number:
> > AA-GH75B-TE) doesn't make any mention of it. It would be particularly
> > interesting if you could move a running Lisp process between cluster
> > nodes without shutting it down. If that kind of thing is also
> > possible with the open source Lisp implementations, that would be
> > good to know.
> VMS cannot move processes between nodes. So unless
> Lisp did a lot itself, then it can't either.
>
> Traditional VMS cluster approach would be processes
> running on each node sharing files and coordinating
> via DLM.
>
> No idea how that Lisp offers in that regard.
>
> Arne

I see. It sounds like the Lisp application would need to make use of DLM to use the VMS cluster facilities. I'll have to see what kind of Lisp implementations I can get working on VMS, then worry about DLM later.

On 10/24/22 4:00 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> It sounds like the Lisp application would need to make use of DLM to
> use the VMS cluster facilities.
Sometimes that's as simple as "open a file" and let RMS do the rest.
But it does depend somewhat on what you want clustering for in the first
place.

On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 4:38:33 PM UTC-5, Craig A. Berry wrote:
> On 10/24/22 4:00 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> > It sounds like the Lisp application would need to make use of DLM to
> > use the VMS cluster facilities.
> Sometimes that's as simple as "open a file" and let RMS do the rest.
> But it does depend somewhat on what you want clustering for in the first
> place.

Lisp implementations frequently have the ability to save an image of their state to disk. Coordinating one cluster node to save the image, then have a new process start on a different cluster node from the image should be possible. Is there a C API for DLM?

Robert Carleton <rbc@rbcarleton.com> wrote:
>This is probably kind of a stretch, has VAX Common Lisp survived in some fo=
>rm over the years? I'm aware that Lucid picked it up later on, but it's not=
> clear to me what happened to the VAX Common Lisp product, when Lucid began=
> to divest their assets in the 90s.

I don't know, but I do know that xlisp was more portable and seemed faster
and was free.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 10/24/2022 6:06 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 4:38:33 PM UTC-5, Craig A. Berry wrote:
>> On 10/24/22 4:00 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
>>> It sounds like the Lisp application would need to make use of DLM to
>>> use the VMS cluster facilities.
>> Sometimes that's as simple as "open a file" and let RMS do the rest.
>> But it does depend somewhat on what you want clustering for in the first
>> place.
>

> Lisp implementations frequently have the ability to save an image of
> their state to disk. Coordinating one cluster node to save the image,
> then have a new process start on a different cluster node from the
> image should be possible.
That sounds doable.

> Is there a C API for DLM?

There are some system services that can be used from C and other
(native) languages: sys$enq(w) and sys$deq.

Arne

On 10/24/2022 6:06 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 4:38:33 PM UTC-5, Craig A. Berry wrote:
>> On 10/24/22 4:00 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
>>> It sounds like the Lisp application would need to make use of DLM to
>>> use the VMS cluster facilities.
>> Sometimes that's as simple as "open a file" and let RMS do the rest.
>> But it does depend somewhat on what you want clustering for in the first
>> place.
>
> Lisp implementations frequently have the ability to save an image of their state to disk. Coordinating one cluster node to save the image, then have a new process start on a different cluster node from the image should be possible. Is there a C API for DLM?
>

VMS is not (hawk, spit, gag) C, and (hawk, spit, gag) C is not VMS

There are a system services for using the DLM. Callable from ALL VMS languages.
Even (hawk, spit, gag) C.

I don't know anything about LISP, and I don't know if a process image is
re-startable. Seems to me there might be a bit more to it.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 7:50:11 PM UTC-5, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 10/24/2022 6:06 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> > On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 4:38:33 PM UTC-5, Craig A. Berry wrote:
> >> On 10/24/22 4:00 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> >>> It sounds like the Lisp application would need to make use of DLM to
> >>> use the VMS cluster facilities.
> >> Sometimes that's as simple as "open a file" and let RMS do the rest.
> >> But it does depend somewhat on what you want clustering for in the first
> >> place.
> >
> > Lisp implementations frequently have the ability to save an image of their state to disk. Coordinating one cluster node to save the image, then have a new process start on a different cluster node from the image should be possible. Is there a C API for DLM?
> >
> VMS is not (hawk, spit, gag) C, and (hawk, spit, gag) C is not VMS
>
> There are a system services for using the DLM. Callable from ALL VMS languages.
> Even (hawk, spit, gag) C.
>
> I don't know anything about LISP, and I don't know if a process image is
> re-startable. Seems to me there might be a bit more to it.
> --
> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
> 170 Grimplin Road
> Vanderbilt, PA 15486

I think the most likely Lisp candidates may be CLISP, ECL, and perhaps GCL. They are all in C. You need a functioning ANSI Lisp to bootstrap SBCL. ABCL will probably work as long as there is a working Java JVM. I'll get into it at some point soon and see what I can get working. Hopefully we'll be seeing the X86 native compilers soon.

On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 6:14:19 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 10/24/2022 6:06 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> > On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 4:38:33 PM UTC-5, Craig A. Berry wrote:
> >> On 10/24/22 4:00 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> >>> It sounds like the Lisp application would need to make use of DLM to
> >>> use the VMS cluster facilities.
> >> Sometimes that's as simple as "open a file" and let RMS do the rest.
> >> But it does depend somewhat on what you want clustering for in the first
> >> place.
> >
>
> > Lisp implementations frequently have the ability to save an image of
> > their state to disk. Coordinating one cluster node to save the image,
> > then have a new process start on a different cluster node from the
> > image should be possible.
> That sounds doable.
> > Is there a C API for DLM?
> There are some system services that can be used from C and other
> (native) languages: sys$enq(w) and sys$deq.
>
> Arne
Thanks. I'll check those out.

On 2022-10-24, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
> On 10/24/2022 6:06 PM, Robert Carleton wrote:
>>
>> Lisp implementations frequently have the ability to save an image of their state to disk. Coordinating one cluster node to save the image, then have a new process start on a different cluster node from the image should be possible. Is there a C API for DLM?
>>
>
> VMS is not (hawk, spit, gag) C, and (hawk, spit, gag) C is not VMS
>
> There are a system services for using the DLM. Callable from ALL VMS languages.
> Even (hawk, spit, gag) C.
>

Not DCL however (at least as a part of VMS). That's a really big omission.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 10/24/2022 8:50 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
> I don't know anything about LISP, and I don't know if a process image is
> re-startable.  Seems to me there might be a bit more to it.

If the data being the context are isolated then VMS
does have a few relevant features.

Basic (!) example:

$ type data.bas
map (blk) integer accu
$ type sum.bas
program sum

%include "data.bas"
declare integer v

v = -1
while v <> 0
input v
accu = accu + v
next
print "sum = ", accu

end program
$ bas sum
$ link sum
$ run sum
1 2
3 0
sum = 6
$ $ run sum
1 2
3 0
sum = 6
$ $ run sum
1 2
3 0
sum = 6
$

[something]

$ type data.bas
map (blk) integer accu
$ type sum.bas
program sum

%include "data.bas"
declare integer v

v = -1
while v <> 0
input v
accu = accu + v
next
print "sum = ", accu

end program
$ bas sum
$ link sum + hack/opt ! <---- note the small change
$ run sum
1 2
3 0
sum = 6
$ $ run sum
1 2
3 0
sum = 12
$ $ run sum
1 2
3 0
sum = 18

:-)

Explanation in next post.

Arne

On 10/25/2022 7:38 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 10/24/2022 8:50 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>> I don't know anything about LISP, and I don't know if a process image
>> is re-startable.  Seems to me there might be a bit more to it.
>
> If the data being the context are isolated then VMS
> does have a few relevant features.
>
> Basic (!) example:
>
> $ type data.bas
> map (blk) integer accu
> $ type sum.bas
> program sum
>
> %include "data.bas"
> declare integer v
>
> v = -1
> while v <> 0
>     input v
>     accu = accu + v
> next
> print "sum = ", accu
>
> end program
> $ bas sum
> $ link sum
> $ run sum
> 1
> 2
> 3
> 0
> sum =          6
> $
> $ run sum
> 1
> 2
> 3
> 0
> sum =          6
> $
> $ run sum
> 1
> 2
> 3
> 0
> sum =          6
> $
>
> [something]
>
> $ type data.bas
> map (blk) integer accu
> $ type sum.bas
> program sum
>
> %include "data.bas"
> declare integer v
>
> v = -1
> while v <> 0
>     input v
>     accu = accu + v
> next
> print "sum = ", accu
>
> end program
> $ bas sum
> $ link sum + hack/opt ! <---- note the small change
> $ run sum
> 1
> 2
> 3
> 0
> sum =          6
> $
> $ run sum
> 1
> 2
> 3
> 0
> sum =          12
> $
> $ run sum
> 1
> 2
> 3
> 0
> sum =          18
>
> :-)
>
> Explanation in next post.

$ type hack.bas
sub hack

%include "data.bas"

end sub
$ bas hack
$ link/share hack+sys$input/opt
SYMBOL_VECTOR=(blk=PSECT)
PSECT_ATTR=blk,SHR
$ $ set proc/priv=(cmkrnl,sysnam)
$ install
remove disk2:[arne]hack.exe
add disk2:[arne]hack.exe /share/write
exit
$ define/sys/exe/nolog hackshr disk2:[arne]hack.exe
$ type hack.opt
PSECT_ATTR=blk,SHR
hackshr/SHARE

Arne

On 10/25/22 02:50, Dave Froble wrote:

> I don't know anything about LISP, and I don't know if a process image is
> re-startable.  Seems to me there might be a bit more to it.

As other Lisp implementations, VAX LISP/VMS could save its state:

2.11 USING SUSPENDED SYSTEMS
A suspended system is a binary file that is a copy of the LISP memory
in use during an interactive LISP session up to the point at which you
create the suspended system. The purpose of a suspended system is to
save the state of an interactive LISP session. You might want to do
this if your work is incomplete. By resuming LISP from a suspended
system, you can continue your work from the point at which you
stopped.

and a

1.1.6 Call-Out Facility
QvAX LISP includes a call-out facility, which lets you call programs
written in other VAX/VMS programming languages and programs that
include run-time library (RTL) routines and VMS and RMS system
services. Chapter 2 of the VAX LISP/VMS System Access Programming
Guide describes the call-out process and explains how to use the
call-out facility

(VAX LISP/VMS User's Guide, as found on/with
https://usermanual.wiki/search.php?q=vax%20lisp)

On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 4:44:59 AM UTC-5, hb wrote:
> On 10/25/22 02:50, Dave Froble wrote:
>
> > I don't know anything about LISP, and I don't know if a process image is
> > re-startable. Seems to me there might be a bit more to it.
> As other Lisp implementations, VAX LISP/VMS could save its state:
>
> 2.11 USING SUSPENDED SYSTEMS
> A suspended system is a binary file that is a copy of the LISP memory
> in use during an interactive LISP session up to the point at which you
> create the suspended system. The purpose of a suspended system is to
> save the state of an interactive LISP session. You might want to do
> this if your work is incomplete. By resuming LISP from a suspended
> system, you can continue your work from the point at which you
> stopped.
>
> and a
>
> 1.1.6 Call-Out Facility
> QvAX LISP includes a call-out facility, which lets you call programs
> written in other VAX/VMS programming languages and programs that
> include run-time library (RTL) routines and VMS and RMS system
> services. Chapter 2 of the VAX LISP/VMS System Access Programming
> Guide describes the call-out process and explains how to use the
> call-out facility
>
> (VAX LISP/VMS User's Guide, as found on/with
> https://usermanual.wiki/search.php?q=vax%20lisp)

So, who wound up with the intellectual property/source for VAX Common Lisp? Is it LispWorks Ltd?

On 10/26/2022 6:44 AM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> So, who wound up with the intellectual property/source for VAX Common Lisp? Is it LispWorks Ltd?

I don't know Lisp so this may be a stupid question, but are there
any reason to believe DEC did not create VAX Lisp from scratch based
on language definition?

If they did and they did not sell it off like Rdb and a few other
things, then IPR must have gone DEC->CPQ->HP->HPE and VSI
should have a license to use the source (the word here is
that VSI got license to everything VMS from HPE).

Which will not help much as HPE has no interest in VMS any
longer and VSI will not see a business case for
migrating Lisp to Alpha/Itanium/x86-64.

Arne

On 10/26/22 15:58, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 10/26/2022 6:44 AM, Robert Carleton wrote:
>> So, who wound up with the intellectual property/source for VAX Common
>> Lisp? Is it LispWorks Ltd?
>
> I don't know Lisp so this may be a stupid question, but are there
> any reason to believe DEC did not create VAX Lisp from scratch based
> on language definition?
>
> If they did and they did not sell it off like Rdb and a few other
> things, then IPR must have gone DEC->CPQ->HP->HPE and VSI
> should have a license to use the source (the word here is
> that VSI got license to everything VMS from HPE).
>
> Which will not help much as HPE has no interest in VMS any
> longer and VSI will not see a business case for
> migrating Lisp to Alpha/Itanium/x86-64.
>
> Arne

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAX_Common_Lisp, VAX LISP was
sold to Lucid Inc. There is a wikipedia article about Lucid. It says
that Lucid went bankrupt in 1994 and Lucid Common Lisp was sold. VAX
LISP isn't mentioned. Lucid Common Lisp ended up at LispWorks, which
sells it under their own name: Liquid Common Lisp.

On 10/26/2022 11:01 AM, hb wrote:
> On 10/26/22 15:58, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 10/26/2022 6:44 AM, Robert Carleton wrote:
>>> So, who wound up with the intellectual property/source for VAX Common
>>> Lisp? Is it LispWorks Ltd?
>>
>> I don't know Lisp so this may be a stupid question, but are there
>> any reason to believe DEC did not create VAX Lisp from scratch based
>> on language definition?
>>
>> If they did and they did not sell it off like Rdb and a few other
>> things, then IPR must have gone DEC->CPQ->HP->HPE and VSI
>> should have a license to use the source (the word here is
>> that VSI got license to everything VMS from HPE).
>>
>> Which will not help much as HPE has no interest in VMS any
>> longer and VSI will not see a business case for
>> migrating Lisp to Alpha/Itanium/x86-64.
>
> According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAX_Common_Lisp, VAX LISP was
> sold to Lucid Inc. There is a wikipedia article about Lucid. It says
> that Lucid went bankrupt in 1994 and Lucid Common Lisp was sold. VAX
> LISP isn't mentioned. Lucid Common Lisp ended up at LispWorks, which
> sells it under their own name: Liquid Common Lisp.

I guess I should have checked first before exposing my ignorance.

Then it does sound very plausible that IPR belongs to LispWorks.

And most likely they have long forgotten and lost source code
for VAX Lisp.

Arne

On Wed, 2022-10-26 at 17:01 +0200, hb wrote:
> According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAX_Common_Lisp, VAX LISP
> was sold to Lucid Inc. There is a wikipedia article about Lucid. It
> says that Lucid went bankrupt in 1994 and Lucid Common Lisp was sold.
> VAX LISP isn't mentioned. Lucid Common Lisp ended up at LispWorks,
> which sells it under their own name: Liquid Common Lisp.

Interestingly enough LispWorks run on a deep space probe, rather
successfully, I might add.
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 8:58:31 AM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 10/26/2022 6:44 AM, Robert Carleton wrote:
> > So, who wound up with the intellectual property/source for VAX Common Lisp? Is it LispWorks Ltd?
> I don't know Lisp so this may be a stupid question, but are there
> any reason to believe DEC did not create VAX Lisp from scratch based
> on language definition?
>
> If they did and they did not sell it off like Rdb and a few other
> things, then IPR must have gone DEC->CPQ->HP->HPE and VSI
> should have a license to use the source (the word here is
> that VSI got license to everything VMS from HPE).
>
> Which will not help much as HPE has no interest in VMS any
> longer and VSI will not see a business case for
> migrating Lisp to Alpha/Itanium/x86-64.
>
> Arne

My understanding is that VAX Common Lisp was created from Spice Lisp. Apparently, some of the DEC Lisp team came from CMU. I asked the LispWorks team if they have any stake in VAX Common Lisp. We'll see what they say.

Cheers,

--Bruce