It is my understanding that next year cell phone companies in the USA
will turn off service for 3G in order to make space for 5G service.

What I don't understand is whether 4G and 5G services are a function of
the cell phone or of the SIM card (cell phone plan) being used.

Thanks.
--
tb

On 12/20/2021 2:53 PM, tb wrote:
> It is my understanding that next year cell phone companies in the USA
> will turn off service for 3G in order to make space for 5G service.
>
> What I don't understand is whether 4G and 5G services are a function of
> the cell phone or of the SIM card (cell phone plan) being used.
>
> Thanks.

Yes.

"tb" <nospam@example.invalid> wrote in news:xn0n6uxf9jkpqb000
@news.eternal-september.org:

> It is my understanding that next year cell phone companies in the USA
> will turn off service for 3G in order to make space for 5G service.
>
> What I don't understand is whether 4G and 5G services are a function of
> the cell phone or of the SIM card (cell phone plan) being used.
>
> Thanks.

All lof the nGs are encoding methods and frequency utilizations. The sim
only enables the phone to locate the corrent bands and how to decode
them. That is why 3G has to be turned off. A cell tower using 3G and can
not also use 4G or 5G without a duplicate set of antennas and a duplicate
head end. AFAIK it is quite possible for towers to have equipment for
both 3G and 4G currently. So rather than invest in a second or possibly
third set of hardware, they turn off 3G so they can reuse the head end
and antennas for the new 5G setup.

Am 20.12.21 um 23:53 schrieb tb:
> It is my understanding that next year cell phone companies in the USA
> will turn off service for 3G in order to make space for 5G service.

3G is turned off in many cases before 2G for special reasons.

> What I don't understand is whether 4G and 5G services are a function of
> the cell phone or of the SIM card (cell phone plan) being used.

Both.
Easy to understand is that the phone must support a certain technology
to use it. A Pixel 3 will never use 5G.

The funny games some providers may play in the US is beyond me. Here in
Europe plans are technology-neutral which means you can use whatever
your phone supports.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

MajorLanGod <lonelydad58@gmail.com> wrote in
news:XnsAE06F2AB53AD4lonelydad58.gmail.co@85.12.62.251:

> "tb" <nospam@example.invalid> wrote in news:xn0n6uxf9jkpqb000
> @news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> It is my understanding that next year cell phone companies in the USA
>> will turn off service for 3G in order to make space for 5G service.
>>
>> What I don't understand is whether 4G and 5G services are a function
>> of the cell phone or of the SIM card (cell phone plan) being used.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> All lof the nGs are encoding methods and frequency utilizations. The
> sim only enables the phone to locate the corrent bands and how to
> decode them. That is why 3G has to be turned off. A cell tower using
> 3G and can not also use 4G or 5G without a duplicate set of antennas
> and a duplicate head end. AFAIK it is quite possible for towers to
> have equipment for both 3G and 4G currently. So rather than invest in
> a second or possibly third set of hardware, they turn off 3G so they
> can reuse the head end and antennas for the new 5G setup.
>
What I forgot to add is that a phone and its SIM only works on one band,
so even if a phone has the hardware to use 5G when it comes out, the
phone will need a new SIM. I have always used the cheap Tracfones, which
are usually not cutting edge, so when they shut of 2G a few years ago I
had to get a new phone that was capable of using 3G [the cheapest
Tracfone phones only did 3G as 4G was the new technology at the time]

Am 21.12.21 um 06:57 schrieb MajorLanGod:
> What I forgot to add is that a phone and its SIM only works on one band,
> so even if a phone has the hardware to use 5G when it comes out, the
> phone will need a new SIM.

That is only correct when the SIM is very very old. The vast majority of
the current SIM-population don't have to be changed.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 21/12/2021 05:54, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> The funny games some providers may play in the US is beyond me. Here in
> Europe plans are technology-neutral which means you can use whatever
> your phone supports.

At least some providers in the UK offer 4G at extra cost over 3G, and 5G extra
over 4G. Of course, the extra cost may also include more text/calls/data or
whatever.

5G coverage is not that widespread in the UK - it's not available in my part of
Edinburgh, for example, so that's lack of a base station with the capability.
Equally, my earlier phone did not have the hardware for 5G. My class of
service with Virgin Mobile did not allow 5G access either. A new SIM was
required to access the upgraded service class.

So three things needed to be correct for 5G usage:

- phone hardware
- service class from the provider
- base station availability

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

Am 21.12.21 um 07:29 schrieb David Taylor:
> On 21/12/2021 05:54, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> The funny games some providers may play in the US is beyond me. Here in
>> Europe plans are technology-neutral which means you can use whatever
>> your phone supports.
>
> At least some providers in the UK offer 4G at extra cost over 3G, and 5G extra
> over 4G. Of course, the extra cost may also include more text/calls/data or
> whatever.

Technically that is certainly possible.

> 5G coverage is not that widespread in the UK - it's not available in my part of
> Edinburgh, for example, so that's lack of a base station with the capability.
> Equally, my earlier phone did not have the hardware for 5G. My class of
> service with Virgin Mobile did not allow 5G access either. A new SIM was
> required to access the upgraded service class.
>
> So three things needed to be correct for 5G usage:
>
> - phone hardware
> - service class from the provider
> - base station availability

What the f..k is a service class? You mean certain "plan"?

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 21/12/2021 06:42, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> - service class from the provider

> What the f..k is a service class? You mean certain "plan"?

Providers may offer different "plans" within the same service class - texts,
minutes, data etc. By "service class" I'm thinking 3G, 4G, 5G etc.
--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

tb wrote:

> It is my understanding that next year cell phone companies in the USA
> will turn off service for 3G in order to make space for 5G service.
>
> What I don't understand is whether 4G and 5G services are a function of
> the cell phone or of the SIM card (cell phone plan) being used.

There are apps that can help determine the current capabilities of your
phone. I have the Network Cell Info & Wifi app (I eventually paid $2.14
for the Pro version, but the free version shows much of the same info),
and it it shows "LTE" for my phone; i.e., my 5-year old smartphone
(c.2016) that was discontinued 2 years later (c.2018) supports 4G LTE.
It's too old to support 5G, but it does 4G. The app supports 2G, 3G,
4G, and 5G. There are probably lots of apps that can tell what cell
types your phone is using. Maybe you already know it only does 3G, at
most (it must be really old).

You didn't mention your phone for others to go lookup its specs to see
what it supports. LTE showed up around 2009, but we don't how old is
your phone, or which one (brand and model) you have.

When 2G got dropped, I lost a couple of very nice flip phones. While
they were deemed smartphones, they weren't very good as such, but they
were excellent pocket-sized phone to tote around for just doing calls.
Towers here (USA) in my area for AT&T (used by Tracfone) dropped 2G
support almost 5 years ago. They bricked my old 2G flip phones.
Despite all the hoopla over sacrificing 2G for more 4G bands, all I
needed for calling was 2G. For those phones, I didn't give a gnat's
fart about text or data. I wanted a cheap pocket-sized flip phone just
for calls, like when doing yardwork, constructions, or anything where
the phone would be at risk of damage, and toted my much better and more
much more expensive smartphone around under less risky circumstances.

On 12/21/2021 at 1:45:56 AM VanguardLH wrote:

> tb wrote:
>
> > It is my understanding that next year cell phone companies in the
> > USA will turn off service for 3G in order to make space for 5G
> > service.
> >
> > What I don't understand is whether 4G and 5G services are a
> > function of the cell phone or of the SIM card (cell phone plan)
> > being used.
>
> There are apps that can help determine the current capabilities of
> your phone. I have the Network Cell Info & Wifi app (I eventually
> paid $2.14 for the Pro version, but the free version shows much of
> the same info), and it it shows "LTE" for my phone; i.e., my 5-year
> old smartphone (c.2016) that was discontinued 2 years later (c.2018)
> supports 4G LTE. It's too old to support 5G, but it does 4G. The
> app supports 2G, 3G, 4G, and 5G. There are probably lots of apps
> that can tell what cell types your phone is using. Maybe you already
> know it only does 3G, at most (it must be really old).
>
> You didn't mention your phone for others to go lookup its specs to see
> what it supports. LTE showed up around 2009, but we don't how old is
> your phone, or which one (brand and model) you have.
>
> When 2G got dropped, I lost a couple of very nice flip phones. While
> they were deemed smartphones, they weren't very good as such, but they
> were excellent pocket-sized phone to tote around for just doing calls.
> Towers here (USA) in my area for AT&T (used by Tracfone) dropped 2G
> support almost 5 years ago. They bricked my old 2G flip phones.
> Despite all the hoopla over sacrificing 2G for more 4G bands, all I
> needed for calling was 2G. For those phones, I didn't give a gnat's
> fart about text or data. I wanted a cheap pocket-sized flip phone
> just for calls, like when doing yardwork, constructions, or anything
> where the phone would be at risk of damage, and toted my much better
> and more much more expensive smartphone around under less risky
> circumstances.

I have an ASUS Zenfone M1, model ASUS_X018D with Android 8.1. It
should be this one:
<https://www.gsmarena.com/asus_zenfone_max_plus_(m1)_zb570tl-8953.php>

GSMArena does not mention anything about this phone having 4G bands
that work in the U.S.A.

Settings -> Connections -> Mobile network -> Preferred network type
shows "3G".

I have a legacy T-Mobile Pay-as-you-go subscription that started
approx. 14 years ago.

--
tb

In article <xn0n6vzp330vhk000@news.eternal-september.org>, tb
<nospam@example.invalid> wrote:

> I have an ASUS Zenfone M1, model ASUS_X018D with Android 8.1. It
> should be this one:
> <https://www.gsmarena.com/asus_zenfone_max_plus_(m1)_zb570tl-8953.php>
>
> GSMArena does not mention anything about this phone having 4G bands
> that work in the U.S.A.

yes it does, at the top: gsm/cdma/hspa/lte.

gsm=2g/cdma=2.5g/hspa=3g/lte=4g.

On 12/21/2021 at 9:15:52 AM nospam wrote:

> In article <xn0n6vzp330vhk000@news.eternal-september.org>, tb
> <nospam@example.invalid> wrote:
>
> > I have an ASUS Zenfone M1, model ASUS_X018D with Android 8.1. It
> > should be this one:
> >
<https://www.gsmarena.com/asus_zenfone_max_plus_(m1)_zb570tl-8953.php>
> >
> > GSMArena does not mention anything about this phone having 4G bands
> > that work in the U.S.A.
>
> yes it does, at the top: gsm/cdma/hspa/lte.
>
> gsm=2g/cdma=2.5g/hspa=3g/lte=4g.

Therefore if Settings -> Connections -> Mobile network -> Preferred
network type shows "3G" it means that I need a new SIM card from
T-Mobile and not a new phone, right?

--
tb

In article <xn0n6w1yb6576w000@news.eternal-september.org>, tb
<nospam@example.invalid> wrote:

> > > I have an ASUS Zenfone M1, model ASUS_X018D with Android 8.1. It
> > > should be this one:
> > >
> <https://www.gsmarena.com/asus_zenfone_max_plus_(m1)_zb570tl-8953.php>
> > >
> > > GSMArena does not mention anything about this phone having 4G bands
> > > that work in the U.S.A.
> >
> > yes it does, at the top: gsm/cdma/hspa/lte.
> >
> > gsm=2g/cdma=2.5g/hspa=3g/lte=4g.
>
> Therefore if Settings -> Connections -> Mobile network -> Preferred
> network type shows "3G" it means that I need a new SIM card from
> T-Mobile and not a new phone, right?

no. that setting just means you want the phone to prefer 3g because
4g/lte can sometimes drain the battery faster, an issue that was a
significant problem with early 4g phones. your phone is relatively
recent so there shouldn't be that much of a difference.

what makes you think you're not getting a 4g/lte connection? what does
it show in the status bar?

On 12/21/2021 at 10:43:18 AM nospam wrote:

> In article <xn0n6w1yb6576w000@news.eternal-september.org>, tb
> <nospam@example.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > > I have an ASUS Zenfone M1, model ASUS_X018D with Android 8.1.
> > > > It should be this one:
> > > >
> >
<https://www.gsmarena.com/asus_zenfone_max_plus_(m1)_zb570tl-8953.php>
> > > >
> > > > GSMArena does not mention anything about this phone having 4G
> > > > bands that work in the U.S.A.
> > >
> > > yes it does, at the top: gsm/cdma/hspa/lte.
> > >
> > > gsm=2g/cdma=2.5g/hspa=3g/lte=4g.
> >
> > Therefore if Settings -> Connections -> Mobile network -> Preferred
> > network type shows "3G" it means that I need a new SIM card from
> > T-Mobile and not a new phone, right?
>
> no. that setting just means you want the phone to prefer 3g because
> 4g/lte can sometimes drain the battery faster, an issue that was a
> significant problem with early 4g phones. your phone is relatively
> recent so there shouldn't be that much of a difference.
>
> what makes you think you're not getting a 4g/lte connection? what does
> it show in the status bar?

The status bar only shows the signal strength but no information
regarding the band being used.

My cell phone is a dual SIM model. As I said before, the T-Mobile SIM
shows 3G as the default preferred network type. The only change that I
am allowed is to manually set the network type to 2G. It does not give
me a choice for 4G.

The other SIM card (Telcel) shows 2G/3G/4G as the default Preferred
network type. I am allowed to manually set the network type as
2G/3G/4G, 2G/3G, 4G, 3G, 2G.

That's why I think that there is some issue with T-Mobile's SIM...

--
tb

In article <xn0n6w3037iqb6000@news.eternal-september.org>, tb
<nospam@example.invalid> wrote:

> >
> > what makes you think you're not getting a 4g/lte connection? what does
> > it show in the status bar?
>
> The status bar only shows the signal strength but no information
> regarding the band being used.
>
> My cell phone is a dual SIM model. As I said before, the T-Mobile SIM
> shows 3G as the default preferred network type. The only change that I
> am allowed is to manually set the network type to 2G. It does not give
> me a choice for 4G.
>
> The other SIM card (Telcel) shows 2G/3G/4G as the default Preferred
> network type. I am allowed to manually set the network type as
> 2G/3G/4G, 2G/3G, 4G, 3G, 2G.
>
> That's why I think that there is some issue with T-Mobile's SIM...

go to a t-mobile store and explain the issue. if they determine it's
the sim, they'll give you a new one for free. even if you don't need a
new sim, they'll sort it out for you.

"MajorLanGod" <lonelydad58@gmail.com> wrote

| What I forgot to add is that a phone and its SIM only works on one band,
| so even if a phone has the hardware to use 5G when it comes out, the
| phone will need a new SIM. I have always used the cheap Tracfones, which
| are usually not cutting edge, so when they shut of 2G a few years ago I
| had to get a new phone that was capable of using 3G [the cheapest
| Tracfone phones only did 3G as 4G was the new technology at the time]

I also use a Tracfone and also had to update from 2G.
My sense is that the Gs are vaguely defined functionality
ranges. My Blu View1 ($30) says it handles GSM / HSPA / LTE
That appears to be 4G. Does that sound right to you?

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 21 Dec 2021 05:57:41 GMT, MajorLanGod
<lonelydad58@gmail.com> wrote:

>MajorLanGod <lonelydad58@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:XnsAE06F2AB53AD4lonelydad58.gmail.co@85.12.62.251:
>
>> "tb" <nospam@example.invalid> wrote in news:xn0n6uxf9jkpqb000
>> @news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> It is my understanding that next year cell phone companies in the USA
>>> will turn off service for 3G in order to make space for 5G service.
>>>
>>> What I don't understand is whether 4G and 5G services are a function
>>> of the cell phone or of the SIM card (cell phone plan) being used.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> All lof the nGs are encoding methods and frequency utilizations. The
>> sim only enables the phone to locate the corrent bands and how to
>> decode them. That is why 3G has to be turned off. A cell tower using
>> 3G and can not also use 4G or 5G without a duplicate set of antennas
>> and a duplicate head end. AFAIK it is quite possible for towers to
>> have equipment for both 3G and 4G currently. So rather than invest in
>> a second or possibly third set of hardware, they turn off 3G so they
>> can reuse the head end and antennas for the new 5G setup.
>>
>What I forgot to add is that a phone and its SIM only works on one band,

Then how come my phone sometimes gets 3G and sometimes 4G with the same
sim?

I think the other phone sometimes got 2G, 3G or 4G, all with the same
sim.

>so even if a phone has the hardware to use 5G when it comes out, the
>phone will need a new SIM. I have always used the cheap Tracfones, which
>are usually not cutting edge, so when they shut of 2G a few years ago I
>had to get a new phone that was capable of using 3G [the cheapest
>Tracfone phones only did 3G as 4G was the new technology at the time]

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 21 Dec 2021 06:54:33 +0100, Joerg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

>Am 20.12.21 um 23:53 schrieb tb:
>> It is my understanding that next year cell phone companies in the USA
>> will turn off service for 3G in order to make space for 5G service.
>
>3G is turned off in many cases before 2G for special reasons.
>
>> What I don't understand is whether 4G and 5G services are a function of
>> the cell phone or of the SIM card (cell phone plan) being used.
>
>Both.
>Easy to understand is that the phone must support a certain technology
>to use it. A Pixel 3 will never use 5G.
>
>The funny games some providers may play in the US is beyond me. Here in
>Europe plans are technology-neutral which means you can use whatever
>your phone supports.

I'm sure that's true of many** plans in the US too. Mint Mobile is not
expensive and it's true of that. **I'm not saying I know of any where
it's not true.

Am 21.12.21 um 20:00 schrieb micky:
> In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 21 Dec 2021 06:54:33 +0100, Joerg Lorenz
> <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>> The funny games some providers may play in the US is beyond me. Here in
>> Europe plans are technology-neutral which means you can use whatever
>> your phone supports.
>
> I'm sure that's true of many** plans in the US too. Mint Mobile is not
> expensive and it's true of that. **I'm not saying I know of any where
> it's not true.

I think for the OP this is very important information. He should talk to
his provider. Turning 3G off should not have negative effects on the
service level. Rather the opposite. But he has to own the right equipment.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote in news:spth0l$a8e$1@dont-email.me:

> Am 21.12.21 um 20:00 schrieb micky:
>> In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 21 Dec 2021 06:54:33 +0100, Joerg
>> Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>> The funny games some providers may play in the US is beyond me. Here
>>> in Europe plans are technology-neutral which means you can use
>>> whatever your phone supports.
>>
>> I'm sure that's true of many** plans in the US too. Mint Mobile is
>> not expensive and it's true of that. **I'm not saying I know of
>> any where it's not true.
>
> I think for the OP this is very important information. He should talk
> to his provider. Turning 3G off should not have negative effects on
> the service level. Rather the opposite. But he has to own the right
> equipment.
>

I downloaded the Network Cell Info app recommended. I am currently using
CDMA for voice and LTE for data on 4G on my Samsung J3 Orbit.

I have to add that I don't claim to be an expert on any of this stuff,
just going by what I have read/encountered and my general knowledge of
the industry. Feel free to take my ramblings with as many grains of salt
as you think necessary.

tb <nospam@example.invalid> wrote:

> I have an ASUS Zenfone M1, model ASUS_X018D with Android 8.1. It
> should be this one:
> <https://www.gsmarena.com/asus_zenfone_max_plus_(m1)_zb570tl-8953.php>
>
> GSMArena does not mention anything about this phone having 4G bands
> that work in the U.S.A.
>
> Settings -> Connections -> Mobile network -> Preferred network type
> shows "3G".
>
> I have a legacy T-Mobile Pay-as-you-go subscription that started
> approx. 14 years ago.

GSMarena doesn't list the supported bands by that phone. They just say
"GSM/CDMA/HSPA/LTE", but LTE is listed.

The bands for that phone noted at:
https://www.phonearena.com/phones/Asus-ZenFone-Max-Plus-M1_id10298
are included in the LTE article at:
https://www.rfwel.com/us/index.php/4g-lte-frequency-bands
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_frequency_bands

You'll likely need a new SIM, even with your current provider, to get
off their 3G network to their 4G LTE network. At Tracfone, SIM cards
cost $1 USD. Free to Verizon customers. Check with whomever is your
cellular provider on what they'll charge for a new SIM card. If the SIM
card is cheap, you could switch now. Call your provider's support. I
suspect your T-mobile Pay-As-You-Go prepaid phone is locked, so you'll
need to get a T-Mobile SIM card, and those are free (don't know if there
are special conditions for Pay-As-You-Go customers). I suspect you get
the SIM card from T-Mobile, and it's your account with them that has the
prepaid Pay-As-You-Go service tier. The SIM card grants you access to
their service network. What plan (service tier) to which you subscribe
is variable amongst their many choices.

While your T-Mobile service plan is 14 years old, your ASUS Zenfone M1
phone was released in April 2018, so it very likely supports 4G LTE.
The above PhoneArena article shows your phone supports LTE. Get a new
SIM card.

Am 21.12.21 um 23:13 schrieb MajorLanGod:
> I downloaded the Network Cell Info app recommended. I am currently using
> CDMA for voice and LTE for data on 4G on my Samsung J3 Orbit.

In the US this is very much standard. What surprises me is that your
provider did not switch to VoLTE which is of much better sound quality
and theortically cheaper longer-term.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 21.12.21 um 17:31 schrieb tb:
> On 12/21/2021 at 9:15:52 AM nospam wrote:
>> yes it does, at the top: gsm/cdma/hspa/lte.
>>
>> gsm=2g/cdma=2.5g/hspa=3g/lte=4g.
>
> Therefore if Settings -> Connections -> Mobile network -> Preferred
> network type shows "3G" it means that I need a new SIM card from
> T-Mobile and not a new phone, right?

No. You need a new phone. 3G (HSPA) is the max yours has. If the
provider shuts 3G down your fall back with this phone will be 2G if it
still exists. A new SIM-card does not help. Your *phone* must be
technically capable of 4G.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 21.12.21 um 18:09 schrieb tb:
> The other SIM card (Telcel) shows 2G/3G/4G as the default Preferred
> network type. I am allowed to manually set the network type as
> 2G/3G/4G, 2G/3G, 4G, 3G, 2G.
>
> That's why I think that there is some issue with T-Mobile's SIM...

Visit a provider-shop and let the provider sort the things out.
With this additional information your phone seems to be 4G-capable.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum