Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

[It is] best to confuse only one issue at a time. -- K&R


devel / comp.emulators.apple2 / Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

SubjectAuthor
* Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Brandon Taylor
`* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?David Schmidt
 `* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Brandon Taylor
  +* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?mmphosis
  |`* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Brandon Taylor
  | +* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?David Schmidt
  | |`- Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Brandon Taylor
  | `- Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Matthew Hellinger
  `* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Kent Dickey
   +* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?fadden
   |`* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Kent Dickey
   | `* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?fadden
   |  +* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?I am Rob
   |  |`- Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Brandon Taylor
   |  `* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Kent Dickey
   |   `* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?fadden
   |    `* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Kent Dickey
   |     `- Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?fadden
   +- Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Brandon Taylor
   +- Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Oliver Schmidt
   `* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev
    +- Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?mmphosis
    +* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Jeff Blakeney
    |`* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev
    | +- Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?magnusfalkirk
    | +* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?magnusfalkirk
    | |`- Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev
    | `* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Jeff Blakeney
    |  `- Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev
    `* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Kent Dickey
     `* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev
      +* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?I am Rob
      |+* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Brandon Taylor
      ||`- Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?I am Rob
      |`* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev
      | `* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Jeff Blakeney
      |  `- Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?I am Rob
      `* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Charlie
       +* Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev
       |`- Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Charlie
       `- Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?Steve Nickolas

Pages:12
Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

<23446f17-71ec-4e25-b585-8c5ec77e831cn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=255&group=comp.emulators.apple2#255

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:c85:b0:46b:afbe:1c3a with SMTP id r5-20020a0562140c8500b0046bafbe1c3amr1340468qvr.100.1655162098846;
Mon, 13 Jun 2022 16:14:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4505:b0:6a7:11bb:746b with SMTP id
t5-20020a05620a450500b006a711bb746bmr1953870qkp.309.1655162098562; Mon, 13
Jun 2022 16:14:58 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 16:14:58 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <67e12690-a030-43cb-b7c6-3a17ab6b1e2cn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.32.2.28; posting-account=M6ivXQoAAADVjzVU9dccMRupANLb9Ed-
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.32.2.28
References: <434d0f61-b74b-4fb7-9c67-ed4012b4d3c8n@googlegroups.com>
<5b5be245-d444-4aaa-8492-de713e8b3897n@googlegroups.com> <t7b8ks$o72$1@dont-email.me>
<03b76f31-866c-4eb7-ae24-f06c11d460adn@googlegroups.com> <t86dus$td4$1@dont-email.me>
<79d3e8a0-67b2-4d7c-b789-373adf1c2d39n@googlegroups.com> <67e12690-a030-43cb-b7c6-3a17ab6b1e2cn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <23446f17-71ec-4e25-b585-8c5ec77e831cn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?
From: br.ta.2...@gmail.com (Brandon Taylor)
Injection-Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 23:14:58 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: Brandon Taylor - Mon, 13 Jun 2022 23:14 UTC

On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 1:42:00 PM UTC-5, I am Rob wrote:
> > > But...I also don't want other people commercializing and selling KEGS..
> > Why not?
> >
> > Is it better to have someone ignore your code and rewrite it? Seems like that doesn't help anybody.
> >
> > If somebody wants to charge money for 6502bench or CiderPress, they can.. I think anybody who pays for it is a fool, but it's not my job to protect other people's wallets. And if the seller took the time to improve it significantly, they're entitled to be paid.
> Another way of looking at it is, we all pretty much learned bits and pieces of code from someone else. Even if we re-write the code to make it our own, does that really make it ours. Or is it just the idea that is not ours. And if everyone lived in fear of someone else profiting off of their own code, then code or programs would never get written.
>
> I think nowadays, no one wants to pay for software as there is so much free programs and games already out there. But if anyone does charge something, it is usually to cover the costs of hardware. Cd's, DVD's, website creation, server rental.
> > And, I just implement stuff my own way, even stuff that's licensed pretty
> > freely, because KEGS is my hobby, not my job.
> I am still hopeful that VGA described in another thread will eventually be on your todo list.

Gentlemen, please. It was not my intention to start a platform battle between SourceForge and GitHub.

I can certainly understand, Kent, where you're coming from, and I suppose another reason you have to avoid GitHub like the plague is because it is a Microsoft service, and your code would no longer be 100 percent yours, but would fall under Microsoft's scrutiny. (That being said, in a way, it already has fallen under Microsoft's scrutiny in the form of both GSport and GSPlus.)

The decision you've made to never use GitHub is one I can totally respect -- all I was doing was throwing the suggestion out there.

I admit, however, that I was quite possibly wrong to do so, as I seem to have unwittingly sparked an unholy argument.

Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

<959a5818-fa21-42c9-b6d7-0a6f8cfa423dn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=256&group=comp.emulators.apple2#256

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:6006:b0:6a6:c005:7c14 with SMTP id dw6-20020a05620a600600b006a6c0057c14mr2474096qkb.691.1655178557764;
Mon, 13 Jun 2022 20:49:17 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:5089:b0:464:6a91:2ec4 with SMTP id
kk9-20020a056214508900b004646a912ec4mr2150451qvb.36.1655178557550; Mon, 13
Jun 2022 20:49:17 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 20:49:17 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <t86f2e$td4$2@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:600:c500:84f0:d923:2b25:fb26:788e;
posting-account=9Dd-GgoAAAAjVgCPcBurQ6c4EXW6Wi8v
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:600:c500:84f0:d923:2b25:fb26:788e
References: <434d0f61-b74b-4fb7-9c67-ed4012b4d3c8n@googlegroups.com>
<5b5be245-d444-4aaa-8492-de713e8b3897n@googlegroups.com> <t7b8ks$o72$1@dont-email.me>
<0ff871dc-4a4b-48fc-811e-3111ecaa78b2n@googlegroups.com> <t86f2e$td4$2@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <959a5818-fa21-42c9-b6d7-0a6f8cfa423dn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?
From: michael....@gmail.com (Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev)
Injection-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 03:49:17 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2851
 by: Michael AppleWin Deb - Tue, 14 Jun 2022 03:49 UTC

On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 9:39:43 PM UTC-7, Kent Dickey wrote:
> Proof:
> something will come along and replace Git eventually, right?

This demonstrates you don't understand the _first_ thing about git and the problems it solves. This is almost as stupid as saying "But something will replace Linux, right!"

1. It will take a _minimum_ of 20-40 *years* before someone attempts to replace git.

* No company will waste resource developing a replacement which means it will be done by open source developers. (With MS owning GitHub they certainly won't abandon it for something else since back in 2017 they ditched Perforce for git almost 100%. Apple, Google, Amazon, won't reinvent the wheel either.)
* No open source developers are going to waste their time re-inventing the SCM wheel.
* IF by some miracle someone actually wrote a git replacement in that time the git / GitHub ecosystem will have grown so much and the bar raised so much that it would be a complete waste of time.
* What I could see is a a dumbed down "git lite" for developers who can't understand git.

2. The biggest problem _isn't_ with git but with the UI. There will always more yet-another pretty GUI frontends for it to streamline common operations.

git is revolutionary, not evolutionary, which is why it took developers by storm. Maybe learn about it before making idiotic statements.

Michael

Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

<9a035a31-245b-4e76-90e7-953e5b33a281n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=257&group=comp.emulators.apple2#257

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:118b:b0:305:bc2:c7c9 with SMTP id m11-20020a05622a118b00b003050bc2c7c9mr5048008qtk.61.1655228678153;
Tue, 14 Jun 2022 10:44:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:133c:b0:6a6:af50:de7a with SMTP id
p28-20020a05620a133c00b006a6af50de7amr4862913qkj.281.1655228678035; Tue, 14
Jun 2022 10:44:38 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 10:44:37 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <959a5818-fa21-42c9-b6d7-0a6f8cfa423dn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=207.195.86.229; posting-account=U4TNXwoAAABP4nIJHynAJZ69O_f3LY2g
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.195.86.229
References: <434d0f61-b74b-4fb7-9c67-ed4012b4d3c8n@googlegroups.com>
<5b5be245-d444-4aaa-8492-de713e8b3897n@googlegroups.com> <t7b8ks$o72$1@dont-email.me>
<0ff871dc-4a4b-48fc-811e-3111ecaa78b2n@googlegroups.com> <t86f2e$td4$2@dont-email.me>
<959a5818-fa21-42c9-b6d7-0a6f8cfa423dn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <9a035a31-245b-4e76-90e7-953e5b33a281n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?
From: gids...@sasktel.net (I am Rob)
Injection-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:44:38 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 1632
 by: I am Rob - Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:44 UTC

Only insecure morons say things like "as stupid as" or "making idiotic statements". WTH is the matter with you Michael?
You have absolutely NO credibility that anyone should read what you have to say. Stay off these forums if you got nothing intelligent to say.

Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

<7f2aca8a-8e5a-424f-909f-b1bc8b880b01n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=258&group=comp.emulators.apple2#258

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5fd3:0:b0:305:2d70:e0dc with SMTP id k19-20020ac85fd3000000b003052d70e0dcmr6509644qta.685.1655248879981;
Tue, 14 Jun 2022 16:21:19 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:5089:b0:464:6a91:2ec4 with SMTP id
kk9-20020a056214508900b004646a912ec4mr5925819qvb.36.1655248879742; Tue, 14
Jun 2022 16:21:19 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 16:21:19 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <9a035a31-245b-4e76-90e7-953e5b33a281n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.32.2.28; posting-account=M6ivXQoAAADVjzVU9dccMRupANLb9Ed-
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.32.2.28
References: <434d0f61-b74b-4fb7-9c67-ed4012b4d3c8n@googlegroups.com>
<5b5be245-d444-4aaa-8492-de713e8b3897n@googlegroups.com> <t7b8ks$o72$1@dont-email.me>
<0ff871dc-4a4b-48fc-811e-3111ecaa78b2n@googlegroups.com> <t86f2e$td4$2@dont-email.me>
<959a5818-fa21-42c9-b6d7-0a6f8cfa423dn@googlegroups.com> <9a035a31-245b-4e76-90e7-953e5b33a281n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <7f2aca8a-8e5a-424f-909f-b1bc8b880b01n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?
From: br.ta.2...@gmail.com (Brandon Taylor)
Injection-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 23:21:19 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 1914
 by: Brandon Taylor - Tue, 14 Jun 2022 23:21 UTC

On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 12:44:38 PM UTC-5, I am Rob wrote:
> Only insecure morons say things like "as stupid as" or "making idiotic statements". WTH is the matter with you Michael?
> You have absolutely NO credibility that anyone should read what you have to say. Stay off these forums if you got nothing intelligent to say.
AND with that, I'd like to call for this thread to be shut down. I am NOT, for the life of me, going to stand in the middle of senseless bickering over nothing.

Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

<db598fa0-974f-4c98-853a-2c51cfe641can@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=259&group=comp.emulators.apple2#259

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:5ceb:0:b0:464:55fd:deae with SMTP id iv11-20020ad45ceb000000b0046455fddeaemr6053456qvb.46.1655250449200;
Tue, 14 Jun 2022 16:47:29 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4eee:0:b0:464:46f0:bae2 with SMTP id
dv14-20020ad44eee000000b0046446f0bae2mr5949206qvb.54.1655250449057; Tue, 14
Jun 2022 16:47:29 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 16:47:28 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <9a035a31-245b-4e76-90e7-953e5b33a281n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:600:c500:84f0:d0d7:6276:2ad1:f059;
posting-account=9Dd-GgoAAAAjVgCPcBurQ6c4EXW6Wi8v
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:600:c500:84f0:d0d7:6276:2ad1:f059
References: <434d0f61-b74b-4fb7-9c67-ed4012b4d3c8n@googlegroups.com>
<5b5be245-d444-4aaa-8492-de713e8b3897n@googlegroups.com> <t7b8ks$o72$1@dont-email.me>
<0ff871dc-4a4b-48fc-811e-3111ecaa78b2n@googlegroups.com> <t86f2e$td4$2@dont-email.me>
<959a5818-fa21-42c9-b6d7-0a6f8cfa423dn@googlegroups.com> <9a035a31-245b-4e76-90e7-953e5b33a281n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <db598fa0-974f-4c98-853a-2c51cfe641can@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?
From: michael....@gmail.com (Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev)
Injection-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 23:47:29 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 2434
 by: Michael AppleWin Deb - Tue, 14 Jun 2022 23:47 UTC

On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 10:44:38 AM UTC-7, I am Rob wrote:

> You have absolutely NO credibility that anyone should read what you have to say.

I know "nothing" about git after 8 years of using it as opposed to someone who doesn't even use it. I know nothing about SourceSafe, SVN, Alienbrain, Perforce having used all of them for years. /s

> Stay off these forums if you got nothing intelligent to say.

I'm sorry, I missed the memo that this was _your_ forum.

If _only_ there was a way to ignore posts about a developer calling out another developer making ignorant statements about git. To bad there wasn't a way to learn how to use a kill file. /s

But "Thanks" for cluttering up this thread with even more useless ad hominem noise instead of discussing the Pros & Cons of SCM that you have actually _used._

Maybe someday you'll stop shooting the messenger and learn to read the message. Maybe.

Michael

Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

<t8bk9p$pls$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=260&group=comp.emulators.apple2#260

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: CUTjeffr...@yahoo.ca (Jeff Blakeney)
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Subject: Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 23:39:35 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <t8bk9p$pls$1@dont-email.me>
References: <434d0f61-b74b-4fb7-9c67-ed4012b4d3c8n@googlegroups.com>
<5b5be245-d444-4aaa-8492-de713e8b3897n@googlegroups.com>
<t7b8ks$o72$1@dont-email.me>
<0ff871dc-4a4b-48fc-811e-3111ecaa78b2n@googlegroups.com>
<t86f2e$td4$2@dont-email.me>
<959a5818-fa21-42c9-b6d7-0a6f8cfa423dn@googlegroups.com>
<9a035a31-245b-4e76-90e7-953e5b33a281n@googlegroups.com>
<db598fa0-974f-4c98-853a-2c51cfe641can@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 03:39:37 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="8336c9ae59df10a4dafd056fe141dc8c";
logging-data="26300"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18o4yRZ5ceu2J3HuAdl3rcU8R97lz61Pvk="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.10.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:RKDYzvfZG2FmInESuURM7m56dWo=
In-Reply-To: <db598fa0-974f-4c98-853a-2c51cfe641can@googlegroups.com>
Content-Language: en-CA
 by: Jeff Blakeney - Wed, 15 Jun 2022 03:39 UTC

On 2022-06-14 7:47 p.m., Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 10:44:38 AM UTC-7, I am Rob wrote:
>
>> You have absolutely NO credibility that anyone should read what you
>> have to say.
>
> I know "nothing" about git after 8 years of using it as opposed to
> someone who doesn't even use it. I know nothing about SourceSafe,
> SVN, Alienbrain, Perforce having used all of them for years. /s

First, the /s thing was bugging me so I finally looked it up to find out
it denotes sarcasm.

Second, I am Rob didn't say you didn't know anything, just that you have
lost a lot of credibility and some of use don't really want to read your
messages anymore.

>> Stay off these forums if you got nothing intelligent to say.
>
> I'm sorry, I missed the memo that this was _your_ forum.

I am Rob's statement is pretty far off of what usenet is all about.
There is no requirement that posts here need to be intelligent. :)

> If _only_ there was a way to ignore posts about a developer calling
> out another developer making ignorant statements about git. To bad
> there wasn't a way to learn how to use a kill file. /s
>
> But "Thanks" for cluttering up this thread with even more useless ad
> hominem noise instead of discussing the Pros & Cons of SCM that you
> have actually _used._

This thread started with someone wondering if work was still being done
on GSport and GSplus and whether the features they have added could
somehow be brought back to KEGS as Kent has been actively working on it
again. Some of the messages here have been about that and how to
accomplish such things.

However, when Kent said he had no plans to use Git for handling his
source code, and even gave some reasons why, you started insulting him
for not wanting to use your preferred system. You have been cluttering
this thread with hints and jargon about all the great things that Git
can do which is not what this thread is about.

> Maybe someday you'll stop shooting the messenger and learn to read
> the message. Maybe.

This thread would have been much shorter if you hadn't taken personal
affront to someone saying they didn't like Git and "shooting the
messenger". You could have been civil and simply posted your opinion.
When that didn't change people's minds you could have just moved on.

The only reason I got involved in the thread was because you were
attacking Kent for no good reason and to show you that he isn't the only
one who has no interest in using Git.

I have considered writing my own IIgs emulator to get features I want
because I'm a Windows user and I don't think Kent is doing updates for
Windows anymore. I prefer not to use any of the C or Java languages and
trying to get things set up and get it to compile properly is a pain.
If I do write my own emulator it would be written in a language called
PowerBASIC and I'm not sure if it is still available as the original
author/owner passed away.

Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

<e0e9be5f-a5d1-4430-ace3-8f124eb53e5dn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=261&group=comp.emulators.apple2#261

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:394:b0:304:eacb:2c69 with SMTP id j20-20020a05622a039400b00304eacb2c69mr7304714qtx.439.1655266726525;
Tue, 14 Jun 2022 21:18:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:88:b0:304:fe45:5581 with SMTP id
o8-20020a05622a008800b00304fe455581mr7007960qtw.58.1655266726398; Tue, 14 Jun
2022 21:18:46 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!feeder1.feed.usenet.farm!feed.usenet.farm!news-out.netnews.com!news.alt.net!fdc2.netnews.com!peer01.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 21:18:46 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <7f2aca8a-8e5a-424f-909f-b1bc8b880b01n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=207.195.86.229; posting-account=U4TNXwoAAABP4nIJHynAJZ69O_f3LY2g
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.195.86.229
References: <434d0f61-b74b-4fb7-9c67-ed4012b4d3c8n@googlegroups.com>
<5b5be245-d444-4aaa-8492-de713e8b3897n@googlegroups.com> <t7b8ks$o72$1@dont-email.me>
<0ff871dc-4a4b-48fc-811e-3111ecaa78b2n@googlegroups.com> <t86f2e$td4$2@dont-email.me>
<959a5818-fa21-42c9-b6d7-0a6f8cfa423dn@googlegroups.com> <9a035a31-245b-4e76-90e7-953e5b33a281n@googlegroups.com>
<7f2aca8a-8e5a-424f-909f-b1bc8b880b01n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <e0e9be5f-a5d1-4430-ace3-8f124eb53e5dn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?
From: gids...@sasktel.net (I am Rob)
Injection-Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 04:18:46 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2867
 by: I am Rob - Wed, 15 Jun 2022 04:18 UTC

> > Only insecure morons say things like "as stupid as" or "making idiotic statements". WTH is the matter with you Michael?
> > You have absolutely NO credibility that anyone should read what you have to say. Stay off these forums if you got nothing intelligent to say.
> AND with that, I'd like to call for this thread to be shut down. I am NOT, for the life of me, going to stand in the middle of senseless bickering over nothing.

And it is because of your decision is why the bully always wins. This used to be a pretty good community, but it is the usage of some peoples choice of words that poisoned any subject that was brought up. Sitting on the fence and saying "for the life of me" you don't want to get involved, is also what kills this forum. It is not senseless bickering when you stand up to a bully.

I used to be like you not getting involved in disputes. But then there was nothing. No one was willing to even post a comment or question. I stand up to bullies with the hopes to keep this forum alive so people like you can post freely and have meaningful conversations without repercussion. How far are you willing to go to stand up for something you want to be an active part in?

Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

<879979e9-0ef9-4fd5-b688-c4e42a982ed7n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=262&group=comp.emulators.apple2#262

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4eee:0:b0:464:46f0:bae2 with SMTP id dv14-20020ad44eee000000b0046446f0bae2mr6721088qvb.54.1655268655185;
Tue, 14 Jun 2022 21:50:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:87:b0:305:209f:3dd5 with SMTP id
o7-20020a05622a008700b00305209f3dd5mr7423538qtw.24.1655268655035; Tue, 14 Jun
2022 21:50:55 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 21:50:54 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <t8bk9p$pls$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=207.195.86.229; posting-account=U4TNXwoAAABP4nIJHynAJZ69O_f3LY2g
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.195.86.229
References: <434d0f61-b74b-4fb7-9c67-ed4012b4d3c8n@googlegroups.com>
<5b5be245-d444-4aaa-8492-de713e8b3897n@googlegroups.com> <t7b8ks$o72$1@dont-email.me>
<0ff871dc-4a4b-48fc-811e-3111ecaa78b2n@googlegroups.com> <t86f2e$td4$2@dont-email.me>
<959a5818-fa21-42c9-b6d7-0a6f8cfa423dn@googlegroups.com> <9a035a31-245b-4e76-90e7-953e5b33a281n@googlegroups.com>
<db598fa0-974f-4c98-853a-2c51cfe641can@googlegroups.com> <t8bk9p$pls$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <879979e9-0ef9-4fd5-b688-c4e42a982ed7n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?
From: gids...@sasktel.net (I am Rob)
Injection-Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 04:50:55 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2454
 by: I am Rob - Wed, 15 Jun 2022 04:50 UTC

> >> Stay off these forums if you got nothing intelligent to say.
> >
> > I'm sorry, I missed the memo that this was _your_ forum.
> I am Rob's statement is pretty far off of what usenet is all about.
> There is no requirement that posts here need to be intelligent. :)

I just want to clarify my use of the word "intelligent" here. It was supposed to indicate "intelligent language" as in, by not using derogatory language to belittle another person. The unnecessary language in question was put into quotes. ( "as stupid as" or "making idiotic statements").

Also, just an FYI, this is not just about the essence of Usenet. There are other Readers for these groups. I use Google Groups. Doesn't mean I have the right to use derogatory language against anyone using Usenet just for the sake of it. just because it allows free speech. That essence is what basically poisoned this group.

Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

<t8cv50$e84$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=264&group=comp.emulators.apple2#264

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: charlieD...@verEYEzon.net (Charlie)
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Subject: Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 11:50:52 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 66
Message-ID: <t8cv50$e84$1@dont-email.me>
References: <434d0f61-b74b-4fb7-9c67-ed4012b4d3c8n@googlegroups.com>
<5b5be245-d444-4aaa-8492-de713e8b3897n@googlegroups.com>
<t7b8ks$o72$1@dont-email.me>
<0ff871dc-4a4b-48fc-811e-3111ecaa78b2n@googlegroups.com>
<t86f2e$td4$2@dont-email.me>
<959a5818-fa21-42c9-b6d7-0a6f8cfa423dn@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 15:50:56 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="6454084a6d8ab706aabeb4f051773314";
logging-data="14596"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+bKmXHwe4XGJkP9qAJ7I84wY0aS3ry0sU="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.10.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:Vc/V006k/4R1lW+ETbRHDAglLkw=
In-Reply-To: <959a5818-fa21-42c9-b6d7-0a6f8cfa423dn@googlegroups.com>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Charlie - Wed, 15 Jun 2022 15:50 UTC

On 6/13/2022 11:49 PM, Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 9:39:43 PM UTC-7, Kent Dickey wrote:
>> Proof:
>> something will come along and replace Git eventually, right?
>
> This demonstrates you don't understand the _first_ thing about git and the problems it solves.

Non sequitur.

> This is almost as stupid as saying "But something will replace Linux, right!"

Linux has been replaced. Android.

> 1. It will take a _minimum_ of 20-40 *years* before someone attempts to replace git.

Please send me the winning numbers for the Powerball lottery. ;-)

> * No company will waste resource developing a replacement which means it will be done by open source developers.

Ever hear of Google? I don't believe they use GIT. I believe they use
Piper (which they developed) but of course you knew that.

> (With MS owning GitHub they certainly won't abandon it for something else since back in 2017 they ditched Perforce for git almost 100%.
> Apple, Google, Amazon, won't reinvent the wheel either.)

I don't have as much faith in MicroSoft as you.

> * No open source developers are going to waste their time re-inventing the SCM wheel.

I don't know anything about SCM but I've seen a lot of 'wasted time'
open source projects.

> * IF by some miracle someone actually wrote a git replacement in that time the git / GitHub ecosystem will have grown so much and the bar
> raised so much that it would be a complete waste of time
> * What I could see is a a dumbed down "git lite" for developers who can't understand git.
>
> 2. The biggest problem _isn't_ with git but with the UI. There will always more yet-another pretty GUI frontends for it to streamline common operations.
>
> git is revolutionary, not evolutionary, which is why it took developers by storm. Maybe learn about it before making idiotic statements. >
> Michael

We get it. You like Git.

As I understand it, version control software was made because people
couldn't keep their own versions straight causing a lot of confusion.
If that is your problem then maybe GIT is for you.
I can understand that. It happens to me. I haven't tried GIT yet.

But then I'm an "Old man stuck in his ways..." ;-)
And here's my excuses for why I "don't want to learn how modern
platforms *streamline* project management":

1. I like programming (it's my hobby). I don't like project management
(sounds like work to me).

2. Over the years I've spent a lot of time learning a lot of things that
weren't worth it. So I get a little gun shy when 'everyone' moves to
the latest, greatest thing since buttered bread.
--------------

Also, since you have spent time learning GIT / GIThub maybe you could
spend some time learning how to interact with people.
You obviously have knowledge that is valuable to this group but you come
off as very immature.

Charlie

Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

<264fbad4-a1cf-4ccd-bb97-05f66ee8191en@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=265&group=comp.emulators.apple2#265

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:5dc1:0:b0:46e:d7c:aefc with SMTP id m1-20020ad45dc1000000b0046e0d7caefcmr316358qvh.44.1655309815872;
Wed, 15 Jun 2022 09:16:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1908:b0:304:e03b:c4c0 with SMTP id
w8-20020a05622a190800b00304e03bc4c0mr264446qtc.630.1655309815481; Wed, 15 Jun
2022 09:16:55 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 09:16:55 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <t8cv50$e84$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:600:c500:84f0:642a:dede:93c3:a3eb;
posting-account=9Dd-GgoAAAAjVgCPcBurQ6c4EXW6Wi8v
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:600:c500:84f0:642a:dede:93c3:a3eb
References: <434d0f61-b74b-4fb7-9c67-ed4012b4d3c8n@googlegroups.com>
<5b5be245-d444-4aaa-8492-de713e8b3897n@googlegroups.com> <t7b8ks$o72$1@dont-email.me>
<0ff871dc-4a4b-48fc-811e-3111ecaa78b2n@googlegroups.com> <t86f2e$td4$2@dont-email.me>
<959a5818-fa21-42c9-b6d7-0a6f8cfa423dn@googlegroups.com> <t8cv50$e84$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <264fbad4-a1cf-4ccd-bb97-05f66ee8191en@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?
From: michael....@gmail.com (Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev)
Injection-Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 16:16:55 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2541
 by: Michael AppleWin Deb - Wed, 15 Jun 2022 16:16 UTC

On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 8:50:57 AM UTC-7, Charlie wrote:
> > This is almost as stupid as saying "But something will replace Linux, right!"
> Linux has been replaced. Android.

Huh?

1. In the *mobile* space Android runs on TOP of the Linux kernel powering 2+ Billion devices. (We'll have to wait and see if Google replaces Linux with Fuschia OS)

2. In the *supercomputer* space Linux has run on 100% of the Top 500 Supercomputers in the world since 2017.
https://www.top500.org/statistics/details/osfam/1/

3. In the *desktop* space Linux has around 5% usage if stats are accurate. The "Year of the Linux Desktop" has been joked about since the early 2000's and probably will never happen unless MS changes. With 66% of Azure running Linux now who knows what will MS do? There has been wild speculation over the years that MS will eventually drop the NT Kernel but I've never seen anything concrete.

Not too shabby for an OS that "won't be big and professional like gnu".

But this is OT.

Michael

Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

<t8d4ci$muk$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=266&group=comp.emulators.apple2#266

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: charlieD...@verEYEzon.net (Charlie)
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Subject: Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 13:20:15 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <t8d4ci$muk$1@dont-email.me>
References: <434d0f61-b74b-4fb7-9c67-ed4012b4d3c8n@googlegroups.com>
<5b5be245-d444-4aaa-8492-de713e8b3897n@googlegroups.com>
<t7b8ks$o72$1@dont-email.me>
<0ff871dc-4a4b-48fc-811e-3111ecaa78b2n@googlegroups.com>
<t86f2e$td4$2@dont-email.me>
<959a5818-fa21-42c9-b6d7-0a6f8cfa423dn@googlegroups.com>
<t8cv50$e84$1@dont-email.me>
<264fbad4-a1cf-4ccd-bb97-05f66ee8191en@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 17:20:19 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="6454084a6d8ab706aabeb4f051773314";
logging-data="23508"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+Ja+zQNuwxQiun5WmB1EbjCIelNBGrNjE="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.10.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:BV0LRFbRlpCdaySARF2FZBkfWHU=
In-Reply-To: <264fbad4-a1cf-4ccd-bb97-05f66ee8191en@googlegroups.com>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Charlie - Wed, 15 Jun 2022 17:20 UTC

On 6/15/2022 12:16 PM, Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 8:50:57 AM UTC-7, Charlie wrote:
>>> This is almost as stupid as saying "But something will replace Linux, right!"
>> Linux has been replaced. Android.
>
> Huh?
>
> 1. In the *mobile* space Android runs on TOP of the Linux kernel powering 2+ Billion devices. (We'll have to wait and see if Google replaces Linux with Fuschia OS)
>
> 2. In the *supercomputer* space Linux has run on 100% of the Top 500 Supercomputers in the world since 2017.
> https://www.top500.org/statistics/details/osfam/1/
>
> 3. In the *desktop* space Linux has around 5% usage if stats are accurate. The "Year of the Linux Desktop" has been joked about since the early 2000's and probably will never happen unless MS changes. With 66% of Azure running Linux now who knows what will MS do? There has been wild speculation over the years that MS will eventually drop the NT Kernel but I've never seen anything concrete.
>
> Not too shabby for an OS that "won't be big and professional like gnu".

The point I was trying to make was that Linux is replaced with each
significant change in the kernel and for the desktop the different
distributions.

I used Android as an example because it uses a *modified* Linux kernel.
To me that is a replacement.

>
> But this is OT

Yes.

>
> Michael
>

Charlie

Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

<alpine.DEB.2.21.2206151338190.23953@sd-119843.dedibox.fr>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=267&group=comp.emulators.apple2#267

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: usots...@buric.co (Steve Nickolas)
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Subject: Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 13:43:34 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.21.2206151338190.23953@sd-119843.dedibox.fr>
References: <434d0f61-b74b-4fb7-9c67-ed4012b4d3c8n@googlegroups.com> <5b5be245-d444-4aaa-8492-de713e8b3897n@googlegroups.com> <t7b8ks$o72$1@dont-email.me> <0ff871dc-4a4b-48fc-811e-3111ecaa78b2n@googlegroups.com> <t86f2e$td4$2@dont-email.me>
<959a5818-fa21-42c9-b6d7-0a6f8cfa423dn@googlegroups.com> <t8cv50$e84$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="c6f77cc97df90406578354cd75f10538";
logging-data="1115"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18BYpv0gR2jJt8qJrKMtBFOIEGUCZEW/F0="
User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (DEB 202 2017-01-01)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:IC+kMxd85pDFhyxOra5O0DDRoY0=
In-Reply-To: <t8cv50$e84$1@dont-email.me>
X-X-Sender: mary@sd-119843.dedibox.fr
 by: Steve Nickolas - Wed, 15 Jun 2022 17:43 UTC

On Wed, 15 Jun 2022, Charlie wrote:

> On 6/13/2022 11:49 PM, Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev wrote:
<snip>
>
>> This is almost as stupid as saying "But something will replace Linux,
>> right!"
>
> Linux has been replaced. Android.

Still Linux under the hood.

<snip>

> We get it. You like Git.
>
> As I understand it, version control software was made because people couldn't
> keep their own versions straight causing a lot of confusion.
> If that is your problem then maybe GIT is for you.
> I can understand that. It happens to me. I haven't tried GIT yet.
>
> But then I'm an "Old man stuck in his ways..." ;-)
> And here's my excuses for why I "don't want to learn how modern platforms
> *streamline* project management":
>
> 1. I like programming (it's my hobby). I don't like project management
> (sounds like work to me).
>
> 2. Over the years I've spent a lot of time learning a lot of things that
> weren't worth it. So I get a little gun shy when 'everyone' moves to the
> latest, greatest thing since buttered bread.

My preferred version control system has always been "zip the source tree,
timestamp the filename and upload it to an HTTP server".

And to me the only real advantage of pRoPeR version control over that is
that you get better compression.

And if there's any reason for what I'm working on now to go up on GitHub
or the like, it has nothing to do with version control. Really, nothing
I've ever put up there had anything to do with version control.

Frankly, I prefer to stick with what works, because unlike a lot of people
(not necessarily anyone here), I'm not blinded by the leet. I've been
doing most things the same way for over 20 years and plan to continue to
do so.

-uso.

Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

<t9ak8j$1hi3$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=268&group=comp.emulators.apple2#268

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: keg...@provalid.com (Kent Dickey)
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Subject: Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 21:49:07 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: provalid.com
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <t9ak8j$1hi3$1@dont-email.me>
References: <434d0f61-b74b-4fb7-9c67-ed4012b4d3c8n@googlegroups.com> <03b76f31-866c-4eb7-ae24-f06c11d460adn@googlegroups.com> <t86dus$td4$1@dont-email.me> <79d3e8a0-67b2-4d7c-b789-373adf1c2d39n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 21:49:07 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="04fe74dc3e18beca959d3c9b165677d0";
logging-data="50755"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/1+y2+jMs4hsJdEQYQXpS7"
Cancel-Lock: sha1:mHHhN1iEomWs1OW0CiL2fURWQ9o=
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001)
Originator: kegs@provalid.com (Kent Dickey)
 by: Kent Dickey - Sun, 26 Jun 2022 21:49 UTC

In article <79d3e8a0-67b2-4d7c-b789-373adf1c2d39n@googlegroups.com>,
fadden <thefadden@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 9:20:46 PM UTC-7, Kent Dickey wrote:
>> But...I also don't want other people commercializing and selling KEGS.
>
>Why not?
>
>Is it better to have someone ignore your code and rewrite it? Seems
>like that doesn't help anybody.
>
>If somebody wants to charge money for 6502bench or CiderPress, they can.
>I think anybody who pays for it is a fool, but it's not my job to
>protect other people's wallets. And if the seller took the time to
>improve it significantly, they're entitled to be paid.

I guess I should say: I don't want to see someone else steal my work and
make money at it and claim it as their own.

>> Using Apache doesn't solve that problem.
>
>Neither does GPL. I can sell your emulator if I want. I just have to
>give away any modifications I make that are linked into the program. If
>KEGS is a component of a larger product, and can be isolated across a
>process boundary, then giving away modifications may not be a limiting
>factor. Selling it simply as a stand-alone emulator likely wouldn't
>make sense though, since a free equivalent would be available.

GPL isn't exactly what I'm looking for, but since GPL requires the
release of source code, if someone did sell KEGS, I could always get
access to their changes. If it's priced so high that I wouldn't buy it,
probably no one else is either. And GPL effectively requires credit.

>> And, I just implement stuff my own way, even stuff that's licensed pretty
>> freely, because KEGS is my hobby, not my job. So the .zip algorithm in KEGS
>> is written by me, not a library. But I learned how .zip works which I
>> wouldn't have done if I just used libzip.
>
>Interesting choice for an example... I've written the same damn zipfile
>access code about 3x now. The code I wrote for CiderPress wound up in
>modified form in Android a couple of times (the APK packaging code, the
>zipalign tool, tweaked heavily for java.util.Zip, ...). It's
>interesting the first time around, but after that it's nice to have a
>fully debugged library.

Fully debugged library. That's a good one.

Kent

Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

<2a01f6a4-1171-4c1a-b3ed-b9b1afee31dan@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=269&group=comp.emulators.apple2#269

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:681:b0:3a0:2da6:d173 with SMTP id a1-20020a05600c068100b003a02da6d173mr20570045wmn.68.1656343782155;
Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:29:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5dc6:0:b0:304:fd1b:3368 with SMTP id
e6-20020ac85dc6000000b00304fd1b3368mr9664134qtx.320.1656343781579; Mon, 27
Jun 2022 08:29:41 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.128.88.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:29:41 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <t9ak8j$1hi3$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.130.68.111; posting-account=UAtoeQoAAADrX7T-MHdWWRC4Fzf0dsLP
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.130.68.111
References: <434d0f61-b74b-4fb7-9c67-ed4012b4d3c8n@googlegroups.com>
<03b76f31-866c-4eb7-ae24-f06c11d460adn@googlegroups.com> <t86dus$td4$1@dont-email.me>
<79d3e8a0-67b2-4d7c-b789-373adf1c2d39n@googlegroups.com> <t9ak8j$1hi3$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <2a01f6a4-1171-4c1a-b3ed-b9b1afee31dan@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?
From: thefad...@gmail.com (fadden)
Injection-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 15:29:42 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: fadden - Mon, 27 Jun 2022 15:29 UTC

On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 2:49:08 PM UTC-7, Kent Dickey wrote:
> I guess I should say: I don't want to see someone else steal my work and
> make money at it and claim it as their own.

FWIW, Apache 2 does require credit, both in terms of carrying a "NOTICE" forward and marking files that have been changed as such (see part 4 in the license). It's less specific than GPL, but it's there.

People might not be able to steal your code, but it seems to me that the hard part of writing an emulator is two things: developing clever algorithms to make stuff go fast, and figuring out all the weird undocumented behavior and edge cases. Neither of those is covered by copyright. So the question is: what is the work that you don't want stolen? Your implementation, or your ideas and research? (I suspect this is why a number of other emulators aren't even available as source code.)

My oversimplified view of open source is essentially this: use GPL if you want other people to collaborate on your project, use Apache 2 / MIT / BSD if you want other people to use your code in their own projects. If you're only publishing the code so that other people can compile it, don't use an open-source license... that way, if somebody else does sell your code, you can throw the full weight of copyright law at them.

Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

<t9cr34$l622$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=270&group=comp.emulators.apple2#270

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: keg...@provalid.com (Kent Dickey)
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Subject: Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 17:57:56 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: provalid.com
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <t9cr34$l622$1@dont-email.me>
References: <434d0f61-b74b-4fb7-9c67-ed4012b4d3c8n@googlegroups.com> <79d3e8a0-67b2-4d7c-b789-373adf1c2d39n@googlegroups.com> <t9ak8j$1hi3$1@dont-email.me> <2a01f6a4-1171-4c1a-b3ed-b9b1afee31dan@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 17:57:56 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="69a1a34ae0f00356b28300a4943ce910";
logging-data="694338"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19AqpGCGhNLr9aJn2pI84cg"
Cancel-Lock: sha1:KiDKaZilkLNPTPHxfPtVdke7eTA=
Originator: kegs@provalid.com (Kent Dickey)
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001)
 by: Kent Dickey - Mon, 27 Jun 2022 17:57 UTC

In article <2a01f6a4-1171-4c1a-b3ed-b9b1afee31dan@googlegroups.com>,
fadden <thefadden@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 2:49:08 PM UTC-7, Kent Dickey wrote:
>> I guess I should say: I don't want to see someone else steal my work and
>> make money at it and claim it as their own.
>
>FWIW, Apache 2 does require credit, both in terms of carrying a "NOTICE"
>forward and marking files that have been changed as such (see part 4 in
>the license). It's less specific than GPL, but it's there.
>
>People might not be able to steal your code, but it seems to me that the
>hard part of writing an emulator is two things: developing clever
>algorithms to make stuff go fast, and figuring out all the weird
>undocumented behavior and edge cases. Neither of those is covered by
>copyright. So the question is: what is the work that you don't want
>stolen? Your implementation, or your ideas and research? (I suspect
>this is why a number of other emulators aren't even available as source
>code.)
>
>My oversimplified view of open source is essentially this: use GPL if
>you want other people to collaborate on your project, use Apache 2 / MIT
>/ BSD if you want other people to use your code in their own projects.
>If you're only publishing the code so that other people can compile it,
>don't use an open-source license... that way, if somebody else does sell
>your code, you can throw the full weight of copyright law at them.

I don't want someone to take KEGS, change a few lines (to remove my
name, change the name to Apple2GSK00lEmulator), and put games for sale
on someplace for $5 each and pass it off as theirs. I think there is a
market here (although not large, but enough to make some money at), and I
don't want to easily enable slimy people to take it. Meanwhile, if
someone puts a lot of effort into improving KEGS, them selling it
bothers me a lot less, but I think it would be a shame if those changes
weren't also made public. The GPLv3 seems to reasonably cover both of
these cases (although indirectly for the first one--just because most
types of people who would pass off the code as theirs would violate the
GPL because they just don't care, not that there isn't a way for them to
do what I just said without violating the GPL). So GPLv3 seems to give me
what I want.

As for collaboration: 80%+ of people are great to work with. I don't
like dealing with the bad 10%. You have to pay me to deal with those
people. I don't have a solution for this, so I just make it harder to
contribute to KEGS.

I'm fine with people using the research of KEGS to make emulators--but
as of now, KEGS is obsoleted by MAME which is likely more accurate at
almost everything. KEGS code is a little easier to understand, maybe.

You mention a non-open-source license that lets people compile code:
What license would this be? By picking GPL, I get people basically
understanding the license right away without me having to explain it,
and it potentially gives me allies to assist in enforcing it since there
are GPL fans. If I create my own license, no one will help enforce it.

Kent

Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?

<5b25ece2-f506-4b38-8633-36763914faccn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=271&group=comp.emulators.apple2#271

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:188a:b0:21b:c273:5ebd with SMTP id a10-20020a056000188a00b0021bc2735ebdmr12710814wri.72.1656373608406;
Mon, 27 Jun 2022 16:46:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:13e7:b0:6af:477:4465 with SMTP id
h7-20020a05620a13e700b006af04774465mr9481948qkl.139.1656373607710; Mon, 27
Jun 2022 16:46:47 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.128.88.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.apple2
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 16:46:47 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <t9cr34$l622$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.130.68.111; posting-account=UAtoeQoAAADrX7T-MHdWWRC4Fzf0dsLP
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.130.68.111
References: <434d0f61-b74b-4fb7-9c67-ed4012b4d3c8n@googlegroups.com>
<79d3e8a0-67b2-4d7c-b789-373adf1c2d39n@googlegroups.com> <t9ak8j$1hi3$1@dont-email.me>
<2a01f6a4-1171-4c1a-b3ed-b9b1afee31dan@googlegroups.com> <t9cr34$l622$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <5b25ece2-f506-4b38-8633-36763914faccn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Are GSport and GSPlus dead?
From: thefad...@gmail.com (fadden)
Injection-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 23:46:48 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: fadden - Mon, 27 Jun 2022 23:46 UTC

On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 10:57:57 AM UTC-7, Kent Dickey wrote:
> You mention a non-open-source license that lets people compile code:
> What license would this be?

"Copyright Kent Dickey, All Rights Reserved." The act of posting it gives people the right to read it for their own personal use, but not to distribute it or create derivative works. I believe feeding it into a compiler is fair use for source code, so long as they don't distribute the output. (Note: I Am Not A Lawyer.)

In any event, GPL sounds like the right choice for KEGS.

Pages:12
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor