On 2023-01-09, Jan-Erik Söderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> wrote:
> Den 2023-01-09 kl. 05:59, skrev Hein RMS van den Heuvel:
>> On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 11:24:21 AM UTC-5, David Turner wrote:
>>> Just sent an email to VSI's staff.
>>> Got several emails back saying they don't work there anymore!!!!
>>> What is happening to VSI???????????????
>>> :0(

Are you able to say who no longer works there ?

>>
>> Happy Old Farts!
>> I believe several opted to finally retire for real januari-first.
>>
>
> Is this ?just normal" or is it worrying in any way?

It's very much expected and I am surprised it hasn't happened before now.

Don't forget that we are now 8.5 years (and counting) into a porting
project that was originally going to take about 3 to 4 years maximum.

These people no doubt want to enjoy the rest of their rapidly reducing
lives and it's a lot different to go back to work for a decade versus
just going back to work for 3-4 years to top up the retirement fund.

I just hope we have not lost anyone like John Reagan yet or any of the
other critical core VSI employees.

Does anyone know which VSI employees have now retired ?

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 8:12:14 AM UTC-5, Simon Clubley wrote:

>
> I just hope we have not lost anyone like John Reagan yet or any of the
> other critical core VSI employees.
>

Aww, thanks. I can only speak for myself. I'm still here. I'm having my
head transferred into a jar in the new few months. I hope it has a nice
view.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jzvcf1u7c0psnk0/john-head-in-jar.png?dl=0

On 2023-01-10, John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> wrote:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jzvcf1u7c0psnk0/john-head-in-jar.png?dl=0

:-)

Simon.

PS: Your keyboard doesn't have a numeric keypad. :-)

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

In article <139533fd-834e-46df-b4d3-89ce9ea1a886n@googlegroups.com>, John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> writes:
>https://www.dropbox.com/s/jzvcf1u7c0psnk0/john-head-in-jar.png?dl=0

EXACTLY how I remember you. :P

--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

I heard from an old friend and Dealer in the VSI neighborhood that a few
more got their pink slips a few weeks ago.
This has got to be unnerving for the employees

Does anyone have any real idea of what's going on there?

DT

On 1/11/2023 4:23 PM, VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> In article <139533fd-834e-46df-b4d3-89ce9ea1a886n@googlegroups.com>, John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> writes:
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jzvcf1u7c0psnk0/john-head-in-jar.png?dl=0
> EXACTLY how I remember you. :P
>

On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 8:47:09 PM UTC-5, David Turner wrote:
> I heard from an old friend and Dealer in the VSI neighborhood that a few
> more got their pink slips a few weeks ago.
> This has got to be unnerving for the employees
>
> Does anyone have any real idea of what's going on there?
>
> DT
> On 1/11/2023 4:23 PM, VAX...@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> > In article <139533fd-834e-46df...@googlegroups.com>, John Reagan <xyzz...@gmail.com> writes:
> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jzvcf1u7c0psnk0/john-head-in-jar.png?dl=0
> > EXACTLY how I remember you. :P
> >

Not sure what is specifically happening at VSI but the number of layoffs in the whole tech sector are unnerving. Some claim it hasn't been this bad since the sub-prime mortgage scandal (2008) while others reference the dot-com crash (2001).

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
http://neilrieck.net

On 2023-01-22, David Turner <dturner@islandco.com> wrote:
>
> I heard from an old friend and Dealer in the VSI neighborhood that a few
> more got their pink slips a few weeks ago.
> This has got to be unnerving for the employees
>

Ok, that's rather different from people choosing to leave and finally
retire. It's also a little worrying if true, because where VSI are
finally at with VMS means they should, if anything, currently be hiring
more employees to handle the workload from people moving to x86-64.

Do you know for sure that people have been fired by VSI or is this
really still people just deciding to leave VSI to retire ?

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 2023-01-23, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@bell.net> wrote:
>
> Not sure what is specifically happening at VSI but the number of layoffs in the whole tech sector are unnerving. Some claim it hasn't been this bad since the sub-prime mortgage scandal (2008) while others reference the dot-com crash (2001).
>

The other possibility is that the social media companies had _way_ too
many staff on the payroll while profits were growing and now that they
too are being affected by the downturn, the employee levels are moving
back towards the level they would be in more established companies.

It still sucks for the poor people being laid off however.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 8:15:13 AM UTC-5, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2023-01-23, Neil Rieck <n.r...@bell.net> wrote:
> >
> > Not sure what is specifically happening at VSI but the number of layoffs in the whole tech sector are unnerving. Some claim it hasn't been this bad since the sub-prime mortgage scandal (2008) while others reference the dot-com crash (2001).
> >
> The other possibility is that the social media companies had _way_ too
> many staff on the payroll while profits were growing and now that they
> too are being affected by the downturn, the employee levels are moving
> back towards the level they would be in more established companies.
>
> It still sucks for the poor people being laid off however.
> Simon.
>
> --
> Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
> Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Well that is exactly what happened at Google where the world-wide number of employees rose from ~ 120k (pre-COVID) to the current level of ~ 180k. Other companies also over-hired during the COVID years so now need to trim the fat. No need to talk about what and why there were layoffs at twitter. No one is talking about the advances in A.I. which will allow companies to permanently automate some jobs.

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
http://neilrieck.net
http://neilrieck.net/OpenVMS.html

I'll ask my friend up there
He is actually in NH and has gone hunting so I guess I will have to wait

On 1/23/2023 8:09 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2023-01-22, David Turner <dturner@islandco.com> wrote:
>> I heard from an old friend and Dealer in the VSI neighborhood that a few
>> more got their pink slips a few weeks ago.
>> This has got to be unnerving for the employees
>>
> Ok, that's rather different from people choosing to leave and finally
> retire. It's also a little worrying if true, because where VSI are
> finally at with VMS means they should, if anything, currently be hiring
> more employees to handle the workload from people moving to x86-64.
>
> Do you know for sure that people have been fired by VSI or is this
> really still people just deciding to leave VSI to retire ?
>
> Simon.
>

On 1/23/2023 7:34 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
> On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 8:47:09 PM UTC-5, David Turner wrote:
>> I heard from an old friend and Dealer in the VSI neighborhood that
>> a few more got their pink slips a few weeks ago. This has got to be
>> unnerving for the employees
>>
>> Does anyone have any real idea of what's going on there?
>
> Not sure what is specifically happening at VSI but the number of
> layoffs in the whole tech sector are unnerving. Some claim it hasn't
> been this bad since the sub-prime mortgage scandal (2008) while
> others reference the dot-com crash (2001).

There has been significant layoffs, but it is my impression
that it has been mostly in some specific areas not across the board.

Most industries are not laying off but actually still hiring
(JP Morgan and American Express are examples of companies
actually hiring more IT people).

Everybody is nervous about the risk for a recession. Because
there has been so much talk about it. But it has not really
shown up yet. And if inflation keeps dropping and central
banks stop hiking interest rates then it may never come (for now).
But many are worried. What if inflation starts going up again.
What if the war in Ukraine escalate. What if China attacks
Taiwan. What if the house in the US won't raise the debt ceiling
and US federal defaults.

But some specific areas has been hit hard. I see at least 3 areas
having had to layoff a lot of people including IT people:

A) Startups without a solid business model especially
in crypto and other fintech. When interest rates
went up then their VC funding dried up and they are
toast.

B) Companies or parts of companies with specific problems.
Mortgage divisions in banks has been down-sizing because
number of mortgages are dropping due to high interest rates.
M&A divisions in banks and capital funds has been down-sizing because
number of deals are dropping due to high interest rates.
Facebook has problems because the Metaverse is not catching on.
Twitter has problems because of lack of relevance (everybody
talks about Elon Musk, but Twitter would have had massive
layoffs also without Musk - Musk buying Twitter just cause
it to be done "the Musk way").

C) Companies that has been on a non-stop hiring spree
the last 5-10 years. Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc..
Their business has not plunged into a hole, but growth
has slowed/stopped. And they need to stop hiring. And
they realize that during the hiring frenzy they may have
hired too many, hired the wrong skill sets, hired at the wrong
geographical locations, hired at too high compensation
level etc.. So they make cuts to adjust.

Arne

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 1:41:55 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 1/23/2023 7:34 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 8:47:09 PM UTC-5, David Turner wrote:
> >> I heard from an old friend and Dealer in the VSI neighborhood that
> >> a few more got their pink slips a few weeks ago. This has got to be
> >> unnerving for the employees
> >>
> >> Does anyone have any real idea of what's going on there?
> >
> > Not sure what is specifically happening at VSI but the number of
> > layoffs in the whole tech sector are unnerving. Some claim it hasn't
> > been this bad since the sub-prime mortgage scandal (2008) while
> > others reference the dot-com crash (2001).
> There has been significant layoffs, but it is my impression
> that it has been mostly in some specific areas not across the board.
>
> Most industries are not laying off but actually still hiring
> (JP Morgan and American Express are examples of companies
> actually hiring more IT people).
>
> Everybody is nervous about the risk for a recession. Because
> there has been so much talk about it. But it has not really
> shown up yet. And if inflation keeps dropping and central
> banks stop hiking interest rates then it may never come (for now).
> But many are worried. What if inflation starts going up again.
> What if the war in Ukraine escalate. What if China attacks
> Taiwan. What if the house in the US won't raise the debt ceiling
> and US federal defaults.
>
> But some specific areas has been hit hard. I see at least 3 areas
> having had to layoff a lot of people including IT people:
>
> A) Startups without a solid business model especially
> in crypto and other fintech. When interest rates
> went up then their VC funding dried up and they are
> toast.
>
> B) Companies or parts of companies with specific problems.
> Mortgage divisions in banks has been down-sizing because
> number of mortgages are dropping due to high interest rates.
> M&A divisions in banks and capital funds has been down-sizing because
> number of deals are dropping due to high interest rates.
> Facebook has problems because the Metaverse is not catching on.
> Twitter has problems because of lack of relevance (everybody
> talks about Elon Musk, but Twitter would have had massive
> layoffs also without Musk - Musk buying Twitter just cause
> it to be done "the Musk way").
>
> C) Companies that has been on a non-stop hiring spree
> the last 5-10 years. Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc..
> Their business has not plunged into a hole, but growth
> has slowed/stopped. And they need to stop hiring. And
> they realize that during the hiring frenzy they may have
> hired too many, hired the wrong skill sets, hired at the wrong
> geographical locations, hired at too high compensation
> level etc.. So they make cuts to adjust.
>
> Arne

Adding to your points,

I thought it a little odd that Microsoft announced it was laying off 10,000 employees on Jan-18
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/18/microsoft-is-laying-off-10000-employees.html
then announced a $10 billion dollar investment in OpenAI on Jan-23
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-23/microsoft-makes-multibillion-dollar-investment-in-openai

While it might make sense to some, imagine how it affects employees (and their families) who just received a pink slip.

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
http://neilrieck.net
http://neilrieck.net/OpenVMS.html

On 1/26/2023 6:19 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 1:41:55 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> But some specific areas has been hit hard. I see at least 3 areas
>> having had to layoff a lot of people including IT people:
>>
>> A) Startups without a solid business model especially
>> in crypto and other fintech. When interest rates
>> went up then their VC funding dried up and they are
>> toast.
>>
>> B) Companies or parts of companies with specific problems.
>> Mortgage divisions in banks has been down-sizing because
>> number of mortgages are dropping due to high interest rates.
>> M&A divisions in banks and capital funds has been down-sizing because
>> number of deals are dropping due to high interest rates.
>> Facebook has problems because the Metaverse is not catching on.
>> Twitter has problems because of lack of relevance (everybody
>> talks about Elon Musk, but Twitter would have had massive
>> layoffs also without Musk - Musk buying Twitter just cause
>> it to be done "the Musk way").
>>
>> C) Companies that has been on a non-stop hiring spree
>> the last 5-10 years. Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc..
>> Their business has not plunged into a hole, but growth
>> has slowed/stopped. And they need to stop hiring. And
>> they realize that during the hiring frenzy they may have
>> hired too many, hired the wrong skill sets, hired at the wrong
>> geographical locations, hired at too high compensation
>> level etc.. So they make cuts to adjust.
>
> Adding to your points,
>
> I thought it a little odd that Microsoft announced it was laying off 10,000 employees on Jan-18
> https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/18/microsoft-is-laying-off-10000-employees.html
> then announced a $10 billion dollar investment in OpenAI on Jan-23
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-23/microsoft-makes-multibillion-dollar-investment-in-openai
>
> While it might make sense to some, imagine how it affects employees (and their families) who just received a pink slip.

In Danish that is "føje spot til skade" - the equivalent English is
supposedly "add insult to injury".

But the (harsh) reality is that it is not unusual for a huge
company to shrink workforce in some divisions/departments while
grow workforce in other divisions/departments.

MS is not laying off people because they as a company
are loosing money - their profit in last quarter of 22
was 16 billion dollars.

Arne

Not much to add. He knows him from the area and apparently there were
quite a few layoffs there.
I personally know that Terry Holmes has gone. Hardly going to damage
VSI. He should have gone long ago.
And Wayne is subordinate has gone too from what I can tell. Well, he
isn't answering any emails anyway.

Perhaps they are going to rethink how they sell licenses. Following the
HP model never worked anyway.
Buying a license key should be like getting a SSL cert. Fill in the
info, verify your email, and it lands in your email inbox 5 minutes later.

No excuse for the licensing debacle there....

DT

On 1/24/2023 2:31 PM, David Turner wrote:
> I'll ask my friend up there
> He is actually in NH and has gone hunting so I guess I will have to wait
>
>
> On 1/23/2023 8:09 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2023-01-22, David Turner <dturner@islandco.com> wrote:
>>> I heard from an old friend and Dealer in the VSI neighborhood that a
>>> few
>>> more got their pink slips a few weeks ago.
>>> This has got to be unnerving for the employees
>>>
>> Ok, that's rather different from people choosing to leave and finally
>> retire. It's also a little worrying if true, because where VSI are
>> finally at with VMS means they should, if anything, currently be hiring
>> more employees to handle the workload from people moving to x86-64.
>>
>> Do you know for sure that people have been fired by VSI or is this
>> really still people just deciding to leave VSI to retire ?
>>
>> Simon.
>>
>

On 1/26/2023 10:16 AM, David Turner wrote:
> Not much to add. He knows him from the area and apparently there were
> quite a few layoffs there.
> I personally know that Terry Holmes has gone. Hardly going to damage
> VSI. He should have gone long ago.
> And Wayne is subordinate has gone too from what I can tell. Well, he
> isn't answering any emails anyway.

I do not recall exactly how https://vmssoftware.com/about/key-managers/
used to look, but I am pretty sure that the list was longer before.
So they may have slimmed down at the top.

> Perhaps they are going to rethink how they sell licenses. Following the
> HP model never worked anyway.
> Buying a license key should be like getting a SSL cert. Fill in the
> info, verify your email, and it lands in your email inbox 5 minutes later.
>
> No excuse for the licensing debacle there....

Buying licenses in a few minutes over the internet using a credit card
indeed seems like the way of this century.

And maybe they should take a look at the time limited licenses as
well - the concept is not popular in the VMS world.

Anybody know who John Ross (which seems to be the new guy in charge of
sales) are?

Arne

On 2023-01-26, David Turner <dturner@islandco.com> wrote:
> Not much to add. He knows him from the area and apparently there were
> quite a few layoffs there.
> I personally know that Terry Holmes has gone. Hardly going to damage
> VSI. He should have gone long ago.
> And Wayne is subordinate has gone too from what I can tell. Well, he
> isn't answering any emails anyway.
>

Thanks for checking.

If they are firing the engineering people, that's a _real_ concern.

If they are firing the sales people responsible for the current
licence situation, then that may be something to welcome.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 2023-01-26, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>
> I do not recall exactly how https://vmssoftware.com/about/key-managers/
> used to look, but I am pretty sure that the list was longer before.
> So they may have slimmed down at the top.
>

It has become way shorter than it was.

At least Clair is thankfully still on the list.

>
> And maybe they should take a look at the time limited licenses as
> well - the concept is not popular in the VMS world.
>

Congratulations Arne, you have mastered the art of British understatement.

:-)

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 1/23/2023 8:09 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2023-01-22, David Turner <dturner@islandco.com> wrote:
>>
>> I heard from an old friend and Dealer in the VSI neighborhood that a few
>> more got their pink slips a few weeks ago.
>> This has got to be unnerving for the employees
>>
>
> Ok, that's rather different from people choosing to leave and finally
> retire. It's also a little worrying if true, because where VSI are
> finally at with VMS means they should, if anything, currently be hiring
> more employees to handle the workload from people moving to x86-64.
>
> Do you know for sure that people have been fired by VSI or is this
> really still people just deciding to leave VSI to retire ?

About a dozen engineers were fired.

On 2/1/2023 3:18 AM, Douy Xebis wrote:

I will assume that this is a made up name to protect the
identity of someone that actually knows.

> On 1/23/2023 8:09 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2023-01-22, David Turner <dturner@islandco.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I heard from an old friend and Dealer in the VSI neighborhood that a few
>>> more got their pink slips a few weeks ago.
>>> This has got to be unnerving for the employees
>>>
>>
>> Ok, that's rather different from people choosing to leave and finally
>> retire. It's also a little worrying if true, because where VSI are
>> finally at with VMS means they should, if anything, currently be hiring
>> more employees to handle the workload from people moving to x86-64.
>>
>> Do you know for sure that people have been fired by VSI or is this
>> really still people just deciding to leave VSI to retire ?
>
> About a dozen engineers were fired.

This is bad news.

VSI really needs all engineers to proceed. There are still
stuff missing in VMS x86-64 not the least the native compilers.
Realistically there will also be bugs found when customers
start migrating to VMS x86-64. And probably a big demand
for consulting assistance during migration projects as well.
And then there is the entire "VMS modernization post x86-64 port".
Lots of work.

I obviously wonder why. I don't think there is a sudden decrease
in demand for VMS. VMS usage is I believe on a pretty steady
course. That steady course is a long term problem but should not
be a short term problem.

I wonder if VSI has loans with variable interest rates or if
Johan Gedda financeds his ownership of VSI with loans with
variable interest rates. As everybody knows then interest rates
has gone up significantly. Money has become expensive. This
is of course just speculation, but it could explain why
there is a sudden need to cut payroll cost.

Arne

On 2023-02-01, Douy Xebis <aarr@uodobdu.db> wrote:
> On 1/23/2023 8:09 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2023-01-22, David Turner <dturner@islandco.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I heard from an old friend and Dealer in the VSI neighborhood that a few
>>> more got their pink slips a few weeks ago.
>>> This has got to be unnerving for the employees
>>>
>>
>> Ok, that's rather different from people choosing to leave and finally
>> retire. It's also a little worrying if true, because where VSI are
>> finally at with VMS means they should, if anything, currently be hiring
>> more employees to handle the workload from people moving to x86-64.
>>
>> Do you know for sure that people have been fired by VSI or is this
>> really still people just deciding to leave VSI to retire ?
>
> About a dozen engineers were fired.

Well, that's not a good sign. :-(

Are you allowed to say whether it was in an area that VSI has decided
not to proceed with or was it general cost cutting to get the expenses
down ?

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 2/1/2023 3:18 AM, Douy Xebis wrote:
> On 1/23/2023 8:09 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2023-01-22, David Turner <dturner@islandco.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I heard from an old friend and Dealer in the VSI neighborhood that a few
>>> more got their pink slips a few weeks ago.
>>> This has got to be unnerving for the employees
>>>
>>
>> Ok, that's rather different from people choosing to leave and finally
>> retire. It's also a little worrying if true, because where VSI are
>> finally at with VMS means they should, if anything, currently be hiring
>> more employees to handle the workload from people moving to x86-64.
>>
>> Do you know for sure that people have been fired by VSI or is this
>> really still people just deciding to leave VSI to retire ?
>
> About a dozen engineers were fired.

"Fired" or "layed off"?

There is a different connotation to those two terms.

bill

On 2/1/2023 9:36 AM, bill wrote:
> On 2/1/2023 3:18 AM, Douy Xebis wrote:
>> On 1/23/2023 8:09 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>> On 2023-01-22, David Turner <dturner@islandco.com> wrote:
>>>> I heard from an old friend and Dealer in the VSI neighborhood that a
>>>> few
>>>> more got their pink slips a few weeks ago.
>>>> This has got to be unnerving for the employees
>>>
>>> Ok, that's rather different from people choosing to leave and finally
>>> retire. It's also a little worrying if true, because where VSI are
>>> finally at with VMS means they should, if anything, currently be hiring
>>> more employees to handle the workload from people moving to x86-64.
>>>
>>> Do you know for sure that people have been fired by VSI or is this
>>> really still people just deciding to leave VSI to retire ?
>>
>> About a dozen engineers were fired.
>
> "Fired" or "layed off"?
>
> There is a different connotation to those two terms.

In the US. Many places elsewhere there is no such distinction.
In Danish both would translate to the same. Danish does have
a different term, but that is reserved for cases like
what the US military would call "dishonorable discharge".

Given the number and the times then "laid off" seems
way more likely than "fired". But the 12 people may not
even be in the US. And the poster may not be an American.

Arne

On 2/1/2023 9:49 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 2/1/2023 9:36 AM, bill wrote:
>> On 2/1/2023 3:18 AM, Douy Xebis wrote:
>>> On 1/23/2023 8:09 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>>> On 2023-01-22, David Turner <dturner@islandco.com> wrote:
>>>>> I heard from an old friend and Dealer in the VSI neighborhood that
>>>>> a few
>>>>> more got their pink slips a few weeks ago.
>>>>> This has got to be unnerving for the employees
>>>>
>>>> Ok, that's rather different from people choosing to leave and finally
>>>> retire. It's also a little worrying if true, because where VSI are
>>>> finally at with VMS means they should, if anything, currently be hiring
>>>> more employees to handle the workload from people moving to x86-64.
>>>>
>>>> Do you know for sure that people have been fired by VSI or is this
>>>> really still people just deciding to leave VSI to retire ?
>>>
>>> About a dozen engineers were fired.
>>
>> "Fired" or "layed off"?
>>
>> There is a different connotation to those two terms.
>
> In the US. Many places elsewhere there is no such distinction.
> In Danish both would translate to the same. Danish does have
> a different term, but that is reserved for cases like
> what the US military would call "dishonorable discharge".
>
> Given the number and the times then "laid off" seems
> way more likely than "fired". But the 12 people may not
> even be in the US. And the poster may not be an American.
>

I thought the person who posted the comment was from my side of
the pond where the distinction makes a difference. A person
who is "layed off" is considered to be out of work through
no fault of their own and is usually eligible for unemployment
compensation. A person who is "fired" is usually considered to
be responsible for the loss of their job and frequently not
eligible for unemployment compensation. Big difference.

bill

On 2/1/2023 10:53 AM, bill wrote:
> On 2/1/2023 9:49 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 2/1/2023 9:36 AM, bill wrote:
>>> On 2/1/2023 3:18 AM, Douy Xebis wrote:
>>>> On 1/23/2023 8:09 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-01-22, David Turner <dturner@islandco.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I heard from an old friend and Dealer in the VSI neighborhood that
>>>>>> a few
>>>>>> more got their pink slips a few weeks ago.
>>>>>> This has got to be unnerving for the employees
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, that's rather different from people choosing to leave and finally
>>>>> retire. It's also a little worrying if true, because where VSI are
>>>>> finally at with VMS means they should, if anything, currently be
>>>>> hiring
>>>>> more employees to handle the workload from people moving to x86-64.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you know for sure that people have been fired by VSI or is this
>>>>> really still people just deciding to leave VSI to retire ?
>>>>
>>>> About a dozen engineers were fired.
>>>
>>> "Fired" or "layed off"?
>>>
>>> There is a different connotation to those two terms.
>>
>> In the US. Many places elsewhere there is no such distinction.
>> In Danish both would translate to the same. Danish does have
>> a different term, but that is reserved for cases like
>> what the US military would call "dishonorable discharge".
>>
>> Given the number and the times then "laid off" seems
>> way more likely than "fired". But the 12 people may not
>> even be in the US. And the poster may not be an American.
>>
>
> I thought the person who posted the comment was from my side of
> the pond

Douy Xebis <aarr@uodobdu.db>

??

> where the distinction makes a difference. A person
> who is "layed off" is considered to be out of work through
> no fault of their own and is usually eligible for unemployment
> compensation.  A person who is "fired" is usually considered to
> be responsible for the loss of their job and frequently not
> eligible for unemployment compensation.  Big difference.

I know.

But just wanted to point out that it may not be like that
where "Douy" is located.

US DK
headcount reduction laid off fyret
bad performance fired fyret
bad attitude fired fyret
bad/criminal behavior fired bortvist

I am not assuming "Douy" is in Denmark - I am just using Danish
as an example outside US - I don't know German or French well
enough to know how it is in those languages.

Arne