<https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/sites/default/files/ms040-2107en-f.pdf>

This is some random government admin form for Australia.

One's email address is to be entered in paragraph 6.

I have never before seen a requirement to enter an email address as two
separate fields, with the @ provided by the form.

I can see where this is headed. The next version of the form will expect
one to select the last element from a drop-down list containing ".com,
..net, etc." For sure, some suffix or other will get omitted from the
list, and the poor user will be stuck. [*]

Sylvia.

[*] Of course, this is a PDF form, one can print it out, scribble on it,
and let the government's admin people figure it out, but anyway.

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> writes:

> <https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/sites/default/files/ms040-2107en-f.pdf>
>
> This is some random government admin form for Australia.
>
> One's email address is to be entered in paragraph 6.
>
> I have never before seen a requirement to enter an email address as
> two separate fields, with the @ provided by the form.
>
> I can see where this is headed. The next version of the form will
> expect one to select the last element from a drop-down list containing
> ".com, .net, etc." For sure, some suffix or other will get omitted
> from the list, and the poor user will be stuck. [*]
>
> Sylvia.
>
> [*] Of course, this is a PDF form, one can print it out, scribble on
> it, and let the government's admin people figure it out, but anyway.

As someone whose email is <firstname>@<first initial+lastname>.net I've
had plenty of trouble with people who don't expect anything but
gmail/yahoo/whatever after I say "at", and also get slightly concerned
when I don't finish it all with "dot com". This has resulted in many
interesting manglings of my email, with the most memorable ending in
@aol.com long after AOL was a going concern.

Really it seems reasonable enough and the biggest problem I see is that
they implement it as two lines, rather than [ ]@[ ] all on one
line. The inability to enter a bang-path email will not be a source of
many calls to the help line, I wager.

I see no reason why your guessed-at next version would come about, least
of all because it would mess up people who prefer to print it out and
scribble.

John

John <john@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net> wrote:
> As someone whose email is <firstname>@<first initial+lastname>.net I've
> had plenty of trouble with people who don't expect anything but
> gmail/yahoo/whatever after I say "at", and also get slightly concerned
> when I don't finish it all with "dot com".

I usually try to spell mine out, which either goes smoothly or
causes so much confusion that by the end even I'm not sure what
my email address is anymore.

But worst by far though are websites that just say something like
"invalid email" or "spam detected" unless you use a common email
provider's domain (even an uncommon email provider isn't enough
for some websites).

> This has resulted in many
> interesting manglings of my email, with the most memorable ending in
> @aol.com long after AOL was a going concern.

To be fair, email addresses @aol.com are still in wide circulation.
Their DMARC reports come from yahoo.com.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 17:15:24 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

> John <john@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net> wrote:
>> As someone whose email is <firstname>@<first initial+lastname>.net I've
>> had plenty of trouble with people who don't expect anything but
>> gmail/yahoo/whatever after I say "at", and also get slightly concerned
>> when I don't finish it all with "dot com".
>
> I usually try to spell mine out, which either goes smoothly or causes so
> much confusion that by the end even I'm not sure what my email address
> is anymore.
>
> But worst by far though are websites that just say something like
> "invalid email" or "spam detected" unless you use a common email
> provider's domain (even an uncommon email provider isn't enough for some
> websites).

I am one of those who use addresses of the form 'company@example.com',
with 'company' being the name of the people to whom I am giving the
address.

A certain professional society got most upset at THEIR name being part of
my email address, implying I was running some kind of scam. To be fair,
they were OK once they finally understood.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On 05-July-23 5:15 pm, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> John <john@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net> wrote:
>> As someone whose email is <firstname>@<first initial+lastname>.net I've
>> had plenty of trouble with people who don't expect anything but
>> gmail/yahoo/whatever after I say "at", and also get slightly concerned
>> when I don't finish it all with "dot com".
>
> I usually try to spell mine out, which either goes smoothly or
> causes so much confusion that by the end even I'm not sure what
> my email address is anymore.
>
> But worst by far though are websites that just say something like
> "invalid email" or "spam detected" unless you use a common email
> provider's domain (even an uncommon email provider isn't enough
> for some websites).
>
>

On the subject of alleged spam, I recently had an issue with the
government of the Northern Territory in Australia. They were bouncing my
emails on the basis that the server to which they would have to send
reply emails was alleged (falsely, BTW, since I control it) to be a
source of spam.

This was not the server that was sending them the email, so their
position seemed to me to be rather unreasonable. I did eventually get
them to whitelist the address. It took them a while to work out how.

Oh, and their initial suggested solution was that I send my emails from
a gmail address instead - i.e. one of the world's biggest sources of spam.

Sylvia.

On 7/4/23 22:47, Sylvia Else wrote:
> <https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/sites/default/files/ms040-2107en-f.pdf>
>
> This is some random government admin form for Australia.
>
> One's email address is to be entered in paragraph 6.
>
> I have never before seen a requirement to enter an email address as two
> separate fields, with the @ provided by the form.
>
> I can see where this is headed. The next version of the form will expect
> one to select the last element from a drop-down list containing ".com,
> .net, etc." For sure, some suffix or other will get omitted from the
> list, and the poor user will be stuck. [*]
>
> Sylvia.
>
> [*] Of course, this is a PDF form, one can print it out, scribble on it,
> and let the government's admin people figure it out, but anyway.
​A testament to the failure of education in computer literacy.
--
⚗︎ | /blu.mɛin.dʰak/ | shortens to "Hawk" | he/him/his/himself/Mr.
bluemanedhawk.github.io
Bitches stole my whole ass ␔🭖᷿᪳𝼗᷍⏧𒒫𐻾ࣛ↉�⃣ quoted-printable, can't
have shit in Thunderbird 😩

On 2023-07-05, Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
> John <john@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net> wrote:
>> As someone whose email is <firstname>@<first initial+lastname>.net I've
>> had plenty of trouble with people who don't expect anything but
>> gmail/yahoo/whatever after I say "at", and also get slightly concerned
>> when I don't finish it all with "dot com".
>
> I usually try to spell mine out, which either goes smoothly or
> causes so much confusion that by the end even I'm not sure what
> my email address is anymore.
>
> But worst by far though are websites that just say something like
> "invalid email" or "spam detected" unless you use a common email
> provider's domain (even an uncommon email provider isn't enough
> for some websites).

just so that this isn't seen as common - I have a personal domain and
email and have never had a problem with people or web sites questioning
my email address in 20 odd years.

Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
> I am one of those who use addresses of the form 'company@example.com',
> with 'company' being the name of the people to whom I am giving the
> address.
>
> A certain professional society got most upset at THEIR name being part of
> my email address, implying I was running some kind of scam. To be fair,
> they were OK once they finally understood.

I've had that actually blocked. I think it was aliexpress@example.com being
rejected from registering, but ali@example.com is fine.

Theo

On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 22:23:57 +0100, Theo wrote:

> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
>> I am one of those who use addresses of the form 'company@example.com',
>> with 'company' being the name of the people to whom I am giving the
>> address.
>>
>> A certain professional society got most upset at THEIR name being part
>> of my email address, implying I was running some kind of scam. To be
>> fair, they were OK once they finally understood.
>
> I've had that actually blocked. I think it was aliexpress@example.com
> being rejected from registering, but ali@example.com is fine.

I was just told off over the phone, so I had a chance to respond!

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 21:11:43 +0000, Jim Jackson wrote:

> On 2023-07-05, Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
>> John <john@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net> wrote:
>>> As someone whose email is <firstname>@<first initial+lastname>.net
>>> I've had plenty of trouble with people who don't expect anything but
>>> gmail/yahoo/whatever after I say "at", and also get slightly concerned
>>> when I don't finish it all with "dot com".
>>
>> I usually try to spell mine out, which either goes smoothly or causes
>> so much confusion that by the end even I'm not sure what my email
>> address is anymore.
>>
>> But worst by far though are websites that just say something like
>> "invalid email" or "spam detected" unless you use a common email
>> provider's domain (even an uncommon email provider isn't enough for
>> some websites).
>
> just so that this isn't seen as common - I have a personal domain and
> email and have never had a problem with people or web sites questioning
> my email address in 20 odd years.

I used to get the TLD rejected, but it's been OK for some years now.

(it's .CX)

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On 05/07/2023 03:47, Sylvia Else wrote:
> <https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/sites/default/files/ms040-2107en-f.pdf>
>
> This is some random government admin form for Australia.
>
> One's email address is to be entered in paragraph 6.
>
> I have never before seen a requirement to enter an email address as two
> separate fields, with the @ provided by the form.
>
> I can see where this is headed. The next version of the form will expect
> one to select the last element from a drop-down list containing ".com,
> .net, etc." For sure, some suffix or other will get omitted from the
> list, and the poor user will be stuck. [*]
>
> Sylvia.
>
> [*] Of course, this is a PDF form, one can print it out, scribble on it,
> and let the government's admin people figure it out, but anyway.

Just to be contrary, the form seems perfectly reasonable to me.

It's obviously based on a paper form so including a printed @ to
encourage users to clearly separate the two parts of their email seems
no worse than including slashes to separate the elements of a date, or
brackets to separate the area code from the telephone number.

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 21:11:43 +0000, Jim Jackson wrote:
>> On 2023-07-05, Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
>>> But worst by far though are websites that just say something like
>>> "invalid email" or "spam detected" unless you use a common email
>>> provider's domain (even an uncommon email provider isn't enough for
>>> some websites).
>>
>> just so that this isn't seen as common - I have a personal domain and
>> email and have never had a problem with people or web sites questioning
>> my email address in 20 odd years.
>
> I used to get the TLD rejected, but it's been OK for some years now.
>
> (it's .CX)

The ones that I've had rejected are .com and/or .net. Oracle Cloud
were one example, which was surprising because you'd think they'd
encounter a lot of people with email addresses at company domains.

One website fails registration with a very vague error unless I use
a particular address with the only relevant characteristic seeming
to be that it's longer than all my others. I've got no idea what's
going on there.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Jim Jackson wrote:

> just so that this isn't seen as common - I have a personal domain and
> email and have never had a problem with people or web sites questioning
> my email address in 20 odd years.

I've had cases where people assume I've given them an incorrect email
address, so they've "corrected it" e.g. I give them
theircompanyname@andyburns.uk and they send to
theircompanyname@andyburns.CO.uk

On Thu, 06 Jul 2023 07:46:06 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

> Jim Jackson wrote:
>
>> just so that this isn't seen as common - I have a personal domain and
>> email and have never had a problem with people or web sites questioning
>> my email address in 20 odd years.
>
> I've had cases where people assume I've given them an incorrect email
> address, so they've "corrected it" e.g. I give them
> theircompanyname@andyburns.uk and they send to
> theircompanyname@andyburns.CO.uk

Me too. In my case, bobeager.uk (for the website too, they say it's not
there because they use .co.uk)

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

Am 05.07.2023 um 05:13:34 Uhr schrieb John:

> The inability to enter a bang-path email will not be a source of
> many calls to the help line, I wager.

I think they won't be able to deliver it - they most likely don't
support UUCP.

In article <u873im$10qtc$1@dont-email.me>, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
>Am 05.07.2023 um 05:13:34 Uhr schrieb John:
>
>> The inability to enter a bang-path email will not be a source of
>> many calls to the help line, I wager.
>
>I think they won't be able to deliver it - they most likely don't
>support UUCP.

Just route it through inhp4.hp.com and let them worry about it.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> writes:

> On Thu, 06 Jul 2023 07:46:06 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Jim Jackson wrote:
>>
>>> just so that this isn't seen as common - I have a personal domain and
>>> email and have never had a problem with people or web sites questioning
>>> my email address in 20 odd years.
>>
>> I've had cases where people assume I've given them an incorrect email
>> address, so they've "corrected it" e.g. I give them
>> theircompanyname@andyburns.uk and they send to
>> theircompanyname@andyburns.CO.uk
>
> Me too. In my case, bobeager.uk (for the website too, they say it's not
> there because they use .co.uk)

I've had people *in Canada*, who notionally should know better, correct
my [user]@[hostname].ca to [user]@[hostname].com. [hostname].com
resolves and has an MX so the clue-challenged sender doesn't get any
clue back.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

On 07 Jul 2023 04:08:39 -0300
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> writes:
>
> > On Thu, 06 Jul 2023 07:46:06 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
> >> I've had cases where people assume I've given them an incorrect email
> >> address, so they've "corrected it" e.g. I give them
> >> theircompanyname@andyburns.uk and they send to
> >> theircompanyname@andyburns.CO.uk
> >
> > Me too. In my case, bobeager.uk (for the website too, they say it's not
> > there because they use .co.uk)
>
> I've had people *in Canada*, who notionally should know better, correct
> my [user]@[hostname].ca to [user]@[hostname].com.

I can't imagine what it must be like for someone who has a
[user]@[hostname].co email address. May as well give up on that.

> [hostname].com
> resolves and has an MX so the clue-challenged sender doesn't get any
> clue back.