Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

<< WAIT >>


computers / comp.mobile.android / Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does

SubjectAuthor
* Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKoAndy Burnelli
+* Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (akaAndy Burnelli
|`* Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (akaAndy Burnelli
| `- Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (akaAndy Burnelli
+* Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (akalegg
|`- Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (akaAndy Burnelli
+* Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (akaAndy Burnelli
|`* Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as someAlan
| `* Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (akaYour Name
|  `- Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (akaAndy Burnelli
`- Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (akaAndy Burnelli

1
Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does

<sspfqu$1hvg$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=26944&group=comp.mobile.android#26944

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 18:34:07 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sspfqu$1hvg$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="51184"; posting-host="3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Andy Burnelli - Tue, 25 Jan 2022 18:34 UTC

Thank God Android updates asynchronously.

For those who have been living under a rock, Android updates asynchronously
like all other modern operating systems update, piece by piece.

If a "piece" is in need of repair, Android updates just what needs updating.
1. Two dozen core modules are updated asynchronously (when needed);
2. Even Qualcomm firmware is updated through that same foundation;
3. And the key apps (e.g., Chrome, Gmail, Maps, etc.) update asynchronously.

It turns out that almost everything in Android, is updated asynchronously.
Contrast that with what we hear in the news over at the iOS newsgroup today.
a. Apple has huge bugs, that they didn't find, but that they recently fixed.
b. Apple can't supply _any_ fixes until they assemble a new monolithic iOS!
c. Apple took so long, the researchers _published_ the hacks _days_ ago!

Do you see the huge flaws in the iOS update clusterfuck compared to Android?
A. Hackers are having a field day with _billions_ of iOS devices
B. They have _full control_ of those billions of iOS devices, if they want
C. Apple can do _nothing_ about it (until they assemble a whole new iOS!)

Thank God Android updates asynchronously.
--
The Android version is almost meaningless since all the software works just
as the Windows 10 version doesn't matter, nor the Linux subversions.

Only on iOS _must_ you constantly update the entire monolithic OS in order
to stay safe, and even then, you can't (since Apple hasn't shipped it yet!)

Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does

<sss4q3$u64$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=26998&group=comp.mobile.android#26998

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 18:44:21 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sss4q3$u64$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <sspfqu$1hvg$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="30916"; posting-host="3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Andy Burnelli - Wed, 26 Jan 2022 18:44 UTC

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 18:34:07 -0000 (UTC), Andy Burnelli wrote:

> Thank God Android updates asynchronously.

Usenet is a team sport, where each of us adds as much value as our IQ
allows, where one question Andy Burns keeps bringing up I do not yet know
the answer to, so I opened a separate thread on that one topic alone:
*How long does GOOGLE say they'll update core modules in project mainline*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/_ZUiLVtLbsg>

Here's the first post, copied here because it explains _why_ the Android
version is basically meaningless given most of Android is updated _outside_
that Android version already.

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

Android's core modules are a huge portion of the Android operating system.

We all know these two dozen Android core modules are updated _independently_
of the carrier, manufacturer, and operating system - but for how long?

I don't know.
Do you?

The fact is Android updates are nuanced, where this thread asks only this:
*How long does GOOGLE update Android core modules in project mainline?*

We know that each module, by design, is donated to the AOSP, so we know
they're already essentially updated forever, but the AOSP isn't Google.

We also know that there are _different_ components of Android, each of which
has a _different_ update schedule (and often a different update mechanism).

Offhand, I can name instantly at least 8 different Android update schedules.
1. User apps (such as your personal APK archive) are often updated forever
2. Key apps (such as the default web browser) are often updated forever
4. Firmware (such as the Qualcomm modem firmware) are updated by Qualcomm
5. Security updates (these are likely team efforts of google, mfr & carrier)
6. Android updates (likely also a team effort of google, mfr & carrier)
7. Core modules (such as the two dozen core modules) are updated by Google
8. Those core modules are always donated to the AOSP for them to maintain.
(any others?)

Given that description above, _this_ thread is only about number 7 above.
*Now you can learn what's new in each Google Play system update for Android*
<https://9to5google.com/2022/01/10/whats-new-android-google-play-system-updates/>
"One of Google's biggest efforts for Android in recent years is to make
updating parts of the operating system easier, cutting out the middlemen
wherever possible to deliver updates directly to customers.
Originally referred to as Project Mainline, the system is now called
"Google Play system updates" or sometimes "Google System updates."

These updates are downloaded and installed automatically by the
Play Store, with the installation finalizing whenever you decide to
reboot your phone. Generally speaking, the system is designed to
go unnoticed, a goal that Google has achieved with relative success.

Google has begun peeling back the curtain on these new Android updates,
with a new support page that spells out what's new in patches related
to Google Play. This includes the formal Google System updates,
in addition to changes to the Play Store and Play Services."
<https://support.google.com/product-documentation/answer/11412553>

Notice the core modules are a huge portion of the Android operating system.

Since Usenet is a team sport, if someone can figure out how long Google
updates asynchronously the 25 core modules in project mainline, let us know.

Please note Android updates are nuanced in that there is no one length of
time for any given type of update so this thread is limited only to the core
modules, by definition, defined in Google's project mainline & treble.
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=project+mainline+treble+core+modules>

Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does

<ssuo2h$b6s$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=27023&group=comp.mobile.android#27023

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.mixmin.net!aioe.org!3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 18:25:22 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <ssuo2h$b6s$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <sspfqu$1hvg$1@gioia.aioe.org> <sss4q3$u64$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="11484"; posting-host="3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Andy Burnelli - Thu, 27 Jan 2022 18:25 UTC

This post made just now to the newsgroups shows _why_ for iOS the OS release
matters _tremendously_ but, for Android, not so much at all.

In this case, if Chromium had the bug, it would be fixed outside the OS.
But in this case, it's Safari that ha the bug - which is shipped in the OS.

What happened was Apple had the fix, but Apple couln't _ship_ that fix.
If this were _any_ other operating system, the fix would already be there.

The point is that for Android (Windows & Linux), the version isn't as
important as it is for iOS _because_ they do NOT use the primitive
monolithic OS-release mechanism that Apple employs to maintain control.

.... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
On 27 Jan 2022 16:24:53 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> these vulnerabilities
> have already been patched

Why are the iKooks so _desperate_ to minimize clearly very serious problems?
*Safari isn't protecting the web, it's killing it*
<https://httptoolkit.tech/blog/safari-is-killing-the-web/>

Fact 1: Apple QA (as usual) completely failed to find these flaws
Fact 2: Apple was told long ago about these flaws (as usual)
Fact 3: Experts all seem to say these are very _serious_ flaws indeed
Fact 4: Yet, apparently, Apple _still_ had no plans to fix the flaws
Fact 5: Exasperated, the researchers finally _published_ the flaws
Fact 6: As a direct result of that move, the flaws were actively exploited
Fact 7: Apple finally decided to fix the flaws when the shit hit the fan
Fact 8: But... *Apple couldn't _ship_ the Safari fix for days*
Fact 9: Because Apple had to wait for the rest of iOS 15.3 to catch up

ASSESSMENT:
Not only did Apple _not_ find the bugs, but the bugs were _serious_ indeed!
*Safari 15 may have a serious security flaw & there's _no patch in sight_*
<https://www.techradar.com/news/safari-15-may-have-a-serious-security-flaw-no-patch-in-sight>

ASSESSMENT:
Worse, Apple had no plans to _fix_ this serious flaw, which is _why_ the
researchers were forced to publish the flaw (to "prod" Apple into action).
*Disclosure of WebKit flaw _prodded_ Apple to undertake repairs*
<https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/21/apple_safari_webkit_indexeddb/>

ASSESSMENT:
The funny thing is that Apple actually had a fix; but they couldn't release
that fix because of Apple's primitive monolithic os-release clusterfuck.
*It's time to make Safari update schedule like Chrome and Firefox*
<https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/rmrm51/apple_safari_engineers_of_reddit_its_time_to_make/>
--
Nobody in high tech has higher MARKETING nor lower R&D costs than Apple.

Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does

<st4ur9$139q$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=27115&group=comp.mobile.android#27115

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2022 02:57:46 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <st4ur9$139q$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <sspfqu$1hvg$1@gioia.aioe.org> <sss4q3$u64$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ssuo2h$b6s$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="36154"; posting-host="3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Andy Burnelli - Sun, 30 Jan 2022 02:57 UTC

This post (from another thread) carries good information for those who don't
yet comprehend why for iOS (and for no other operating system!) it matters
_greatly_ not only the release people are on, but the exact sub release.

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

By now intelligent people realize that Android (much like most operating
systems outside of iOS) is not a monolithic operating system in the least.

Android is _many_ components which each have their own update schedules.
1. User apps are often updated forever (and very many are open source);
2. Key apps are often updated forever (even some of those are open source);
3. Firmware (such as the Qualcomm modem firmware) are updated by Qualcomm;
4. Security updates (these are sometimes monthly or quarterly for years);
5. Android versions (these are what changes Android 11, say, to Android 12);
6. Core modules (updated either over GPS on the net or OTA by partners);
7. In addition, all core modules are donated to AOSP to maintain forever.

iOS, on the other hand, is a primitive outdated monolithic clusterfuck:
1. User apps (most of which break far sooner in time than do Android apps);
2. Everything else (which means one line of code requires the entire iOS!).

Because iOS is so primitive of a clusterfuck, Apple can't release a fix for
a bug (such as what happened this month with Safari) until Apple completes
the testing for the huge primitively monolithic iOS clusterfuck.
*Here's why Apple should provide standalone updates for native iOS apps*
<https://9to5mac.com/2022/01/21/heres-why-apple-should-provide-standalone-updates-for-native-ios-apps/>
"Security is the biggest reason why Apple should rethink the iOS
update process. On January 18 it was reported that Apple engineers were
able to fix the exploit, but they had to wait for the next iOS update
in order to make the patch available to everyone. As I write this article
on January 21, *there's a build of iOS 15.3 available for developers*
*that includes a fix for the Safari bug*. However, it will still be a
few days before this update is released to the public. If there were
a way to update the native iOS apps separately, iPhone and iPad users
could already download the latest version of Safari that is not
vulnerable to the bug."

Notice _because_ of the primitive way only iOS is released, of course you
keep hearing from the iKooks how very much it matters to them not only the
version of iOS that they have uploaded, but the exact subversion too!

Of all operating systems, the version only matters on the most primitive.

Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does

<dqcdvg13lqvpoh6giv1maoeuevas0rulh0@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=27118&group=comp.mobile.android#27118

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: leg...@nospam.magma.ca (legg)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2022 10:52:28 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <dqcdvg13lqvpoh6giv1maoeuevas0rulh0@4ax.com>
References: <sspfqu$1hvg$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="48f6f18998e6b59cf36e116a15cae20e";
logging-data="20956"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/yQkvQmZHok6LtlffUCg4Q"
Cancel-Lock: sha1:Zg/ag+bcogDCCT72WIUz2QfldFc=
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118
 by: legg - Sun, 30 Jan 2022 15:52 UTC

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 18:34:07 -0000 (UTC), Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

>Thank God Android updates asynchronously.
>
>For those who have been living under a rock, Android updates asynchronously
>like all other modern operating systems update, piece by piece.
>
>If a "piece" is in need of repair, Android updates just what needs updating.
>1. Two dozen core modules are updated asynchronously (when needed);
>2. Even Qualcomm firmware is updated through that same foundation;
>3. And the key apps (e.g., Chrome, Gmail, Maps, etc.) update asynchronously.
>
>It turns out that almost everything in Android, is updated asynchronously.
>Contrast that with what we hear in the news over at the iOS newsgroup today.
>a. Apple has huge bugs, that they didn't find, but that they recently fixed.
>b. Apple can't supply _any_ fixes until they assemble a new monolithic iOS!
>c. Apple took so long, the researchers _published_ the hacks _days_ ago!
>
>Do you see the huge flaws in the iOS update clusterfuck compared to Android?
>A. Hackers are having a field day with _billions_ of iOS devices
>B. They have _full control_ of those billions of iOS devices, if they want
>C. Apple can do _nothing_ about it (until they assemble a whole new iOS!)
>
>Thank God Android updates asynchronously.

Well there are differences, even with the same version, that are
proprietary and even hardware-specific.

I'm dealing with a lenovo tablet that is based on Android 7 - it's
OS was last updated in 2019.

Basic System adjustment features are minimal - causing most app
install and adjustment instructions to be meaningless.

RL

Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does

<st6iel$7om$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=27122&group=comp.mobile.android#27122

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android misc.phone.mobile.iphone comp.sys.mac.system
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2022 17:38:30 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <st6iel$7om$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <sspfqu$1hvg$1@gioia.aioe.org> <dqcdvg13lqvpoh6giv1maoeuevas0rulh0@4ax.com>
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="7958"; posting-host="3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Andy Burnelli - Sun, 30 Jan 2022 17:38 UTC

On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 10:52:28 -0500, legg wrote:

>>Thank God Android updates asynchronously.
>
> Well there are differences, even with the same version, that are
> proprietary and even hardware-specific.

I don't disagree that, with any operating system there are dozens of
versions of core components of that operating system as shown here.
<https://i.postimg.cc/4ymqRF7n/updateallapps11.jpg>

What I'm saying very clearly, is that the iKooks can't seem to comprehend
that all other operating systems (except iOS!) update using a modern laminar
update mechanism, with each layer being updated on its own needed schedule.

Of all current common consumer operating systems, only iOS is mired in the
Paleolithic stone age which requires an all-or-nothing primitive update.

No other common operating system other than iOS uses such a primitive
monolithic clusterfuck update mechanism, which is _why_ the iKooks are
always so _desperate_ to obtain the latest release (since that latest
release is the _only_ safe release of iOS on the planet at that time).

By way of stark contrast, Android uses the same modern tiered update
mechanism that all other common consumer operating systems use than iOS.

That's why it's not important which exact subversion of Android you have.

Since Android implemented a modern advanced updated mechanism only recently
(as of Android 10+), you'll note in that screenshot a dozen key versions.
One UI version
Android version
Google Play system update
Baseband version
Kernel version
Build number
SE for Android status
Knox version
Service provider software version
Carrier configuration version
Security software version
Android security patch level

Notice these in particular are updated on completely _different_ schedules!
*Android version* = Android 11
*Google Play system update* = June 1, 2021
*Android security patch level* = November 1, 2021

Those three items alone, I claim comprise probably _most_ of Android, where
it's important to understand that there are over two dozen core Android
modules updated in the one item of "Google Play system update" alone.

These two dozen core Android modules (Project Mainline) are updated either
OTN or OTA via APK/APEX files directly from Google or from the Android
Partner.

Likewise the "Security software versions" are updated on a completely
different schedule than from the Android version update, which itself is
updated on a completely different schedule than Android core modules are.
*You can learn what's new in each Google Play system update for Android*
<https://9to5google.com/2022/01/10/whats-new-android-google-play-system-updates/>
"One of Google's biggest efforts for Android in recent years is to make
updating parts of the operating system easier, cutting out the middlemen
wherever possible to deliver updates directly to customers.
Originally referred to as Project Mainline, the system is now called
"Google Play system updates" or sometimes "Google System updates."

These updates are downloaded and installed automatically by the
Play Store, with the installation finalizing whenever you decide to
reboot your phone. Generally speaking, the system is designed to
go unnoticed, a goal that Google has achieved with relative success.

Google has begun peeling back the curtain on these new Android updates,
with a new support page that spells out what's new in patches related
to Google Play. This includes the formal Google System updates,
in addition to changes to the Play Store and Play Services."
<https://support.google.com/product-documentation/answer/11412553>

Notice the core modules are a huge portion of the Android operating system.
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=project+mainline+treble+core+modules>

So are the frequent "Android Security Updates" which update separately.

The security update mechanism is completely different than what iOS uses.
Google pixel = <https://source.android.com/security/bulletin/pixel>
Samsung = <https://security.samsungmobile.com/securityUpdate.smsb>
Huawei = <https://consumer.huawei.com/en/support/bulletin/>
Motorola = <https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/app/software-security-page/g_id/6806>
Nokia = <https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_int/security-updates>
Oppo = <https://security.oppo.com/en/mend>
LG = <https://lgsecurity.lge.com/bulletins>
Also quite unlike the primitive monolithic iOS update mechanism, note that
_all_ the updates (just as with the core modules) are donated to the AOSP
within _two_ days of the security release (or Android core module release).
"Android platform fixes are merged into AOSP 24�V48 hours
after the security bulletin is released"
<https://source.android.com/security/bulletin>

I realize this is too much detail for the iKooks but the point is they are
_desperate_ to get the latest iOS release (where Apple adds, on average,
from 1 to 2 zero-day bug each and ever month!) because the only way the poor
unsuspecting hapless Apple users _can_ get an update is through an entire
iOS release.

Meanwhile, iKooks harp on the fact that a major Android release only occurs
on a schedule of roughly about once a year - where there's almost nothing in
that release that matters (since most of the functionality is available
outside the release, such as with Android 12's "privacy dashboard").
*How to add Android 12 Privacy Dashboard in older Android 7+*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/aMYPFXDZjAs>

In summary, the Android version number itself is almost meaningless but the
iKooks harp on it because they're embarrassed by their utterly primitive iOS
clusterfuck which they _hate_ can't fix even a single line of code without
having to create an entirely new iOS release version that then has to be
updated by _billions_ of users (all completely unnecessarily so).
--
The iKooks hate that iOS uses a primitive monolithic update mechanism.

Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does

<t0gpr0$13rc$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=29136&group=comp.mobile.android#29136

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!xRlA9fQeq3MxUfP2zHJf4A.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 17:34:39 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t0gpr0$13rc$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <sspfqu$1hvg$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="36716"; posting-host="xRlA9fQeq3MxUfP2zHJf4A.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.1
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: Andy Burnelli - Sat, 12 Mar 2022 00:34 UTC

nospam wrote:

> different people value different features.

There's more to "valuing" different features, nospam.
There's this little thing called "intelligent selection".

Meaning not selection by pure marketing gimmickry (as you always propose).
But selection using knowledge of what the feature actually does for you.

To that point, I find it interesting that most (if not all) Apple users fall
for the marketing ploy that iPhones are said (by Apple) to be often updated.

So, to back fill their fears, Apple owners would buy an iPhone SE 3 over an
iPhone 11 just because Apple will summarily drop support later for the SE.

Yet, if Apple owners really cared about software support, they'd go Android.
As iOS is mostly updated because every fix requires an entire new release.

Worse, Apple summarily stops updating the iPhone after a short time period.

Apple owners don't realize Android now updates most of the OS forever.
(Forever here meaning there is no end of life date that is published.)

Even the most obvious layers that most people think about are updated in
some cases for five years now, which includes the Qualcomm drivers.

The rest is updated forever over the Google Play {Services,System,Store}.
--
REFERENCE:
*Google just surrendered its update authority to Samsung*
<https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-vs-google-updates-3104089/>

*How long does GOOGLE say they'll update the two dozen core modules in
project mainline?*

<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/_ZUiLVtLbsg/m/q7-iaUiwBgAJ>

Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does

<t0gqd1$bt5$2@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=29139&group=comp.mobile.android#29139

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some
people (aka iKooks) think it does
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 16:44:17 -0800
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <t0gqd1$bt5$2@dont-email.me>
References: <sspfqu$1hvg$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t0gpr0$13rc$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 00:44:18 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="249fdd9bdef7ea35903f05973b6d9cfe";
logging-data="12197"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/0JUcflR/8h4rKo8LavcycmrTAPrH/wpE="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:91.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.7.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:+J0MpcW80j4828GgZ0il4P/smmw=
In-Reply-To: <t0gpr0$13rc$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Content-Language: en-CA
 by: Alan - Sat, 12 Mar 2022 00:44 UTC

On 2022-03-11 4:34 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>> different people value different features.
>
> There's more to "valuing" different features, nospam.
> There's this little thing called "intelligent selection".
>
> Meaning not selection by pure marketing gimmickry (as you always propose).
> But selection using knowledge of what the feature actually does for you.
>
> To that point, I find it interesting that most (if not all) Apple users
> fall
> for the marketing ploy that iPhones are said (by Apple) to be often
> updated.
>
> So, to back fill their fears, Apple owners would buy an iPhone SE 3 over an
> iPhone 11 just because Apple will summarily drop support later for the SE.
>
> Yet, if Apple owners really cared about software support, they'd go
> Android.
> As iOS is mostly updated because every fix requires an entire new release.
>
> Worse, Apple summarily stops updating the iPhone after a short time period.
>
> Apple owners don't realize Android now updates most of the OS forever.
> (Forever here meaning there is no end of life date that is published.)
>
> Even the most obvious layers that most people think about are updated in
> some cases for five years now, which includes the Qualcomm drivers.
>
> The rest is updated forever over the Google Play {Services,System,Store}.

Unless Google decides they don't want to

Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does

<t0h0t7$19ak$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=29142&group=comp.mobile.android#29142

 copy link   Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone comp.mobile.android
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!uKJrEjiXXsRBSNGhbi76Ng.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: YourN...@YourISP.com (Your Name)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 15:35:19 +1300
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t0h0t7$19ak$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <t0gqd1$bt5$2@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="42324"; posting-host="uKJrEjiXXsRBSNGhbi76Ng.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Unison/2.2
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Your Name - Sat, 12 Mar 2022 02:35 UTC

On 2022-03-11 4:34 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>>
>> different people value different features.
>
> There's more to "valuing" different features, nospam.
> There's this little thing called "intelligent selection".
>
> Meaning not selection by pure marketing gimmickry (as you always propose).
> But selection using knowledge of what the feature actually does for you.
>
> To that point, I find it interesting that most (if not all) Apple users fall
> for the marketing ploy that iPhones are said (by Apple) to be often updated.
>
> So, to back fill their fears, Apple owners would buy an iPhone SE 3 over an
> iPhone 11 just because Apple will summarily drop support later for the SE.

So people will "buy the SE" beacuse Apple will "drop support for the
SE" ... pretty much sums up your your total lack of intelligence. :-\

> Yet, if Apple owners really cared about software support, they'd go Android.
> As iOS is mostly updated because every fix requires an entire new release.

Complete and utter bullshit ... as usual! :-\

> Worse, Apple summarily stops updating the iPhone after a short time period.

Complete and utter bullshit ... as usual! :-\

> Apple owners don't realize Android now updates most of the OS forever.
> (Forever here meaning there is no end of life date that is published.)

Complete and utter bullshit ... as usual! :-\

> Even the most obvious layers that most people think about are updated in
> some cases for five years now, which includes the Qualcomm drivers.
>
> The rest is updated forever over the Google Play {Services,System,Store}.

Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does

<t0h38m$1vin$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=29143&group=comp.mobile.android#29143

 copy link   Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone comp.mobile.android
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 03:15:32 +0000
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t0h38m$1vin$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <t0gqd1$bt5$2@dont-email.me> <t0h0t7$19ak$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="65111"; posting-host="3PLzD/rb74ta/CXxNcmbeA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.1
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Andy Burnelli - Sat, 12 Mar 2022 03:15 UTC

Your Name wrote:

>> So, to back fill their fears, Apple owners would buy an iPhone SE 3 over an
>> iPhone 11 just because Apple will summarily drop support later for the SE.
>
> So people will "buy the SE" beacuse Apple will "drop support for the
> SE" ... pretty much sums up your your total lack of intelligence. :-\

I apologize that you didn't understand that sentence as I need to dumb down
the message when communicating with ill educated people like you are.

Apple owners are driven by fear, not logic.
Hence...
A. Apple owners would prefer to buy the SE
B. Solely because Apple will drop support for that SE
C. At a _later date_ than Apple will drop support for the iPhone 11

I realize all iKooks have a low IQ, but my suggestion is to stop being so
very confident in always not being able to understand the simplest things.

The point is that Apple owners buy on fear and fear alone.
Not on logic.

How else do you think Apple makes those ungodly profit margins, Your Name?
It's clearly _not_ off of an intelligent user base (as that's impossible).

>> Yet, if Apple owners really cared about software support, they'd go Android.
>> As iOS is mostly updated because every fix requires an entire new release.
>
> Complete and utter bullshit ... as usual! :-\]

Again, I realize iKooks are so uneducated, they don't even know how iOS is
updated, let alone how most of Android is currently updated forever.

See details where essentially all Androids were said to have been updated:
<https://www.droid-life.com/2022/03/01/google-system-update-march-improvements/>

>> Worse, Apple summarily stops updating the iPhone after a short time period.
>
> Complete and utter bullshit ... as usual! :-\

The iKooks are of such a low IQ that they don't realize that fact-based
people like I am _own_ plenty of iOS products so we're well aware that
support for iPhones drops far sooner than support for Android nowadays.

See details where essentially all Androids were to be recently updated:
*The March 2022 Google System Update is chock-full of changes*
<https://www.androidcentral.com/phones/the-march-2022-google-system-update-is-chock-full-of-changes>
"Google has released the March 2022 System Updates.
*These updates are available for all Android devices, not just Pixels*
The update will arrive through the Play Store and Play Services."
"The Google System Update for March 2022 is now rolling out to
*pretty much anyone who owns an Android device*. In this update,
there are quite a few different bug fixes, including one that
fixes "device connectivity". Additionally, the Play Games Services
profile has been updated, providing users with a way to
"better manage their privacy settings". "
>> Apple owners don't realize Android now updates most of the OS forever.
>> (Forever here meaning there is no end of life date that is published.)
>
> Complete and utter bullshit ... as usual! :-\

As usual, the uneducated low IQ low self esteem iKooks only believe what
Apple (rather brilliantly) feeds them to believe about iOS updates.

These iKooks know absolutely _nothing_ about what's discussed here recently!

*How long does GOOGLE say they'll update the two dozen core modules in project mainline?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/_ZUiLVtLbsg/m/q7-iaUiwBgAJ>
--
The reason they're child-like iKooks is BECAUSE they have the confluence of
low IQ, low self esteem & no education such that they can't think logically.

Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does

<t45u5d$63u$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=31161&group=comp.mobile.android#31161

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!Gj+613xB9sVIQxAtFideEw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much as some people (aka iKooks) think it does
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 11:46:21 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t45u5d$63u$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <sspfqu$1hvg$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="6270"; posting-host="Gj+613xB9sVIQxAtFideEw.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.1
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: Andy Burnelli - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:46 UTC

sms wrote:

> Android phones, other than some Pixel models, don't include this
> capability at all, and there is no app in the Google Play Store that
> provides this functionality.

Steve deserves thanks for bringing this iOS/Android feature to the fore.

It's apparently an Android 12 feature which is backported to earlier Android
(which is one of the reasons Android versions don't matter all that much).

In fact, the app actually _predates_ the native Android 12 backtap features.

<https://www.xda-developers.com/tap-tap-update-android-12-columbus-material-you/>
Tap, Tap is a port of the double tap on back of device gesture
from Pixels running Android 12 to any Android 7.0+ device.

Tap, Tap provides over 50 actions that can be run from double
or triple taps on the back of your device, including:
Launching an app
Launching a shortcut
Toggling the flashlight
Simulating button presses, such as home or back
Running a Tasker task
Quick Tap to Snap
... and many more!

The gesture can also be fully controlled to only run under certain
conditions or run different actions in different scenarios
such as only when an app is running, the screen is off, or when
listening to music (many more options are available).

> On Android, this capability is available only by using a side-loaded
> app, called "Tap Tap."

Sideloading <===> Installing

Let's be clear, sideloading on Android is so trivial & common that it's not
even worth mentioning as a "thing", unlike sideloading on iOS which is not.

1. On Windows, I downloaded the APK _directly_ to Android over Wi-Fi.
(My Android phone is mounted on the PC as a drive letter using WebDav.)
<https://i.postimg.cc/9FJMKYch/scrcpy21.jpg> Windows Drive: === Android

2. Had I wanted to, I could have downloaded to Windows and _still_ easily
installed on Android simply by _sliding_ the APK onto the Android GUI.
<https://i.postimg.cc/wvsbcNBz/scrcpy05.jpg> Drag APK from Windows

3. Or, like most people, it could have been sideloaded easily all on Android
(but why bother when Android & Windows are so seamlessly interconnected).

My primary point being that to use the term "sideload" only invokes fear in
the iOS user; for an Android user, it's just an easier way to install apps.

> On the plus side, the Tap Tap app does provide a
> lot more functionality than the iPhone's built-in "Back Tap" feature
> since you can configure Tap Tap to launch whatever app you want, you're
> not limited to specific functions

Apparently it has been discussed in the XDA Developer's site since 2020.

<https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/app-1-3-tap-tap-double-tap-on-back-of-device-gesture-from-android-12-port.4140573/>

Those who are well educated will note this "Columbus" feature is yet another
classic example of why Android versions don't matter (while for iOS, the OS
version is absolutely critical).

This feature not only predates the Android 12 implementation, but, as usual
with Android, it also backports to a huge number of older Android versions.

Bear in mind I'm well aware the ignorant low-IQ iKooks will _never_
comprehend the concept inherent in that simple but profound concept
- since all iKooks know is what Apple (rather cleverly) feeds them.

In summary, I thank Steve for bringing up this feature that is inherent in
both Android and in iOS, where I simply make the points below to add to his:
a. Backtapping is potentially useful (so I thank Steve for edifying us)
b. It backports Android 12 functionality way back to at least Android 7
c. On iOS, you're vastly limited in both versions and in functionality
--
Usenet is where friendly people daily gather to discuss topics of interest.

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor